there is a woman who is a renowned psychologist who understands the schizophrenic mind. She founded the Hearing voices Network. Her name is Gail Hornstein.
"I try to understand people as they understand themselves."
The link for this helpful information is
www.hearing-voices.org

she does not place value judgements and sincerely offers hope to those who suffer. check out the link if you believe you may need help.
Hope this helps.

[newtus]

idk why but i fear people understanding/not judging me more than judging me...
ive been in the mental health system too long....too too long.

I feel the same way, newtus. It's not as if I feel unworthy of being understood... But I feel that, if someone CLAIMS to understand me, they have come to the wrong understanding. And if they say they have not judged me, they already have but they have a motive for not allowing it to get in the way. Lol.

Interesting website, though, guru. : )

Originally Posted by newtus

idk why but i fear people understanding/not judging me more than judging me...
ive been in the mental health system too long....too too long.

newtus : true greatness it is said then, must be to be misunderstood.

then, and only then you hide from yourself your true colors.

your not paranoid, " your predictable." some wise philospher once said.

[fishsandwich]

Originally Posted by Shayatanica

I feel the same way, newtus. It's not as if I feel unworthy of being understood... But I feel that, if someone CLAIMS to understand me, they have come to the wrong understanding. And if they say they have not judged me, they already have but they have a motive for not allowing it to get in the way. Lol.

Interesting website, though, guru. : )

I was really heavily involved in the Hearing Voices Network project until about a year ago . . . it's actually pretty cool. Almost everybody who works on it has either been dx'ed with a psychotic disorder or self-identifies as a "voice hearer". There are a few administrative staff who don't have those experiences, but eh.

The support groups they run are pretty fantastically useless, though. At least in my town, the groups are filtered through a national mental health charity that is also a provider of statutory mental health services. You have to be seeing a psychiatrist and complying with the drug regime if you want to go to a group.

seems like the agencies who may seem to help, apparently have agendas all their own.. i think it would help if people would begin with acknowledging when a person recovers and then call it what it really is: Nothing more than the "universal mind" and also, for those who "hear voices" i think the real trick is understanding it is just "mind chatter" and by choosing not to react to what is "heard" you can stay with your own stream of conscience. in other words, it is a great learning process to "listen to your own "inner voice" always.

[Gr3tta]

i recently went to a seminar about hearing voices and the hearing voices network. i thought it was pretty cool. i thought about attending a group meeting, but i haven't been able to go to one yet. you don't have to see a pdoc or a T or take any meds or anything to attend the groups. you just have to self identify as someone who hears voices. i thought it sounded pretty interesting - it's a different perspective.

Gr3tta - according to fishsandwich, they push the meds and you must be on meds to participate. Frankly, i think a person reaches a certain age and you just "grow out" of hearing voices. in other words, you mature.

[fishsandwich]

Originally Posted by guru2013

Gr3tta - according to fishsandwich, they push the meds and you must be on meds to participate. Frankly, i think a person reaches a certain age and you just "grow out" of hearing voices. in other words, you mature.

Oh, in my borough and a few of the neighbouring ones they do that because the groups are offered through a different charity. All I meant was that I wasn't able to take part in all their activities because I don't take the meds. The philosophy of the Hearing Voices network itself certainly doesn't push meds.

Originally Posted by fishsandwich

Oh, in my borough and a few of the neighbouring ones they do that because the groups are offered through a different charity. All I meant was that I wasn't able to take part in all their activities because I don't take the meds. The philosophy of the Hearing Voices network itself certainly doesn't push meds.

thanks for the clarification. In the states, we have compulory laws in place in 43 of the 50 states now. It is almost impossible to exit the mental health system, once ensnared in it.
They will not let me go off meds, and the local CMH in my state has even openly threatened me with severe consequences if i should decide on my own that my stage of recovery is such that i no longer need mental health services. They are making a hell of lot of money from my mental health contract.

PS-- how did you get to the point where you were able to no longer take meds. ?? what wellness strategies did you use? Did you require a lawyer to get you off meds ? just curious.

[RunningEagleRuns]

Originally Posted by guru2013

Gr3tta - according to fishsandwich, they push the meds and you must be on meds to participate. Frankly, i think a person reaches a certain age and you just "grow out" of hearing voices. in other words, you mature.

i respectively disagree, although i hope you are right

[newtus]

Originally Posted by guru2013

thanks for the clarification. In the states, we have compulory laws in place in 43 of the 50 states now. It is almost impossible to exit the mental health system, once ensnared in it.

can u please tell me which ones
i really want out
maybe u have info?

never been in community mental health always private but i might have to
if i have to then F*** IT IDC IF I GOTO JAIL OR DIE FROM MY "illness"

i want out of this system so bad its killing me

[newtus]

Originally Posted by guru2013

Gr3tta - according to fishsandwich, they push the meds and you must be on meds to participate. Frankly, i think a person reaches a certain age and you just "grow out" of hearing voices. in other words, you mature.

then why not just make people goto schizophrenics anonymous or something LIKE THAT. i THOUGHT that the point was is if it wasnt clinical you can join. thats the BS system for you right there.

now its not that anymore
its about control.
always have to get nami or some s**t involved.

let me tell you a little story...
i was involved with nami at one time.
i was actually that i remember now.
in a comm mental health thing cause i was uninsured. long almost fatal tragic story thats for diff time if asked.
now!....they practically made me goto schizophrenics anonymous or some **** group. did i go. I HAD TO. did i go. like i said I HAD TO.
now did i go. i had to. i went actually and it was some general group. out of maybe 13-14 people there me and only 1 other person had schizoaffective. i think 1 other too but im not sure.
i started advocating with nami in my college. even personally talked to the president of texas nami and was about to actually talk to fred frese PERSONALLY and get a special mentor with a psychologist ph.D from houston in the top nami rung until i started realizing they DONT advocate nonmedicinal treatment.
i was like "wait what?" because i had just got off 4 meds that caused me medical health probs.

i was like f**k this and cut off all ties cold turkey.
true story.
this is when i had my youtube channel for 5 years with hundreds of daily subscribers and around a million views when a million then was like 9 million now. i shut that off out of the blue. out of paranoia episode though. i dont regret it.

true f***ing story all this.
i got an email from these people too PERSONALLY. not just one either.
suck my cl*t you a**h***s

and now?
ive given up on mental health.

[likewater]

Ugh," growing out "and "maturing " from mental illness???? That's rich. I wish it were true because my mom is 60, paranoid schizophrenic , and one of the rare people who is violent because of her disease. she says God tells her to kill people. Well, maybe when she is 70 she'll " grow out if it. " also i'm 39 still hear voices. Guru, your hypothesis has no basis in reality. The only thing i'm
aware of is people can 1. Deny voices because if stigma and inability to get treatment and 2. Have DID and heal and integrate becoming whole.

[fishsandwich]

Originally Posted by likewater

Ugh," growing out "and "maturing " from mental illness???? That's rich. I wish it were true because my mom is 60, paranoid schizophrenic , and one of the rare people who is violent because of her disease. she says God tells her to kill people. Well, maybe when she is 70 she'll " grow out if it. " also i'm 39 still hear voices. Guru, your hypothesis has no basis in reality. The only thing i'm
aware of is people can 1. Deny voices because if stigma and inability to get treatment and 2. Have DID and heal and integrate becoming whole.

Some people do "grow out" of it, or possibly just have a single phase of it. I can think of three examples known to me personally.
Of course, some people don't - as you and your mother and several other people (myself currently included) prove.

My Mother didn't get her psychotic symptoms with her BP/Schizoaffective until her 40s. But that was precipitated by a GREAT DEAL of stress & life changes. So hopefully it decreases in severity. : )

[fishsandwich]

Originally Posted by guru2013

PS-- how did you get to the point where you were able to no longer take meds. ?? what wellness strategies did you use? Did you require a lawyer to get you off meds ? just curious.

Uh well, it's a very long story. Made short: I didn't need a lawyer to get me off meds because I waited and played "extra sweet and compliant" with the psychs until they let me off the treatment order as a "reward".

Most of my wellness strategy is what I call "excessive coping". I keep myself constantly busy -- too busy to have a breakdown . I make goals for myself -- very difficult ones, so I have to work my arse off -- and remind myself that it's either achieve those goals or go back to the nuthouse. I also see the world's most kickass psychoanalyst and eat vegan diet, exercise like mad, etc.
All that makes me sound like a dull, uptight person. I hope I'm not.

[newtus]

Originally Posted by likewater

one of the rare people who is violent because of her disease.

ill admit.
you couldve fooled me.

well annyone could have.
anyway i admit. im aggressive to the violent point.

i better shut my mouth..

I'm aggressive to the violent point, too... But I usually try to get myself or an inanimate object to avoid it escalating. Being violent, you have to be more careful & keep yourself in check. There's no need to doubly **** yourself over by having criminal allegations AND a mental illness. We have it hard as it is.

*hug* You'll be fine, newtus. You're okay to speak your mind here.

[newtus]

Originally Posted by Shayatanica

You're okay to speak your mind here.

if only i could.
i dont dare completely though.
half the stuff i punch into are not inanimate.

maybe i can say...
i punch myself in the head a lot. though.
..i think im hoping for brain damage.
i jump off stuff...

i took a lot of meds 2 days ago and climbed on the roof of my house you guys.
am i fooling myself or can i trust myself.
i dont care to think
because if i think i stop
if i stop i dont act
if i dont act i dont get hurt
if i dont hurt i dont get a chance to die
if i dont get a chance to die...
...im still here
...and i dont want to be.
i want to be in heaven already.
im just ready to get out of here you guys
may god have mercy on my soul.
...cant fight anymore.

Newtus, you've already come so far & succeeded. Life is an adventure & unfortunately Schizoaffective is one of them... You can either make it as bad as it feels or you can try & enrich your life while it's still there. It's hard; I know. I've had it extremely bad lately. But life has too much potential to waste it, especially when you've gone through so much hardship. : )

I used to hit myself in the head/face a lot... I called it "Fight Club". Lmao Probably not the right time for it, but the mood needs to be lightened up a bit I think. :P

[likewater]

Ok, psychosis can come and go fishsandwich but that doesnt mean people grow or mature out of it. That wording is frankly -insulting. No one grows out of mental illness without devine or medical or psychological intervention anymore than someone can grow out of
Being in a wheelchair. Oh wait i'm wrong. My neighbor with macular degeneration just told me he can see. My bfriend no longer needs his blood pressure meds. Wow!!! And a whole slew of monkeys just flew out my butt!!

((((Newtus))) you CAN go on. Get help if you need to. Go to er or call crisis line if you need to. I love you too much. Please take care.

[newtus]

ok guys
i give up.
after heavily abusing xanax, ambien, and focalin for 1-2 weeks im having some weird physical feelings. mostly weird mental.
but hey whatevs you know
cant think straight
thnk thats a product of degeneration despisement
ummm hm.
what should i say now?
...
...
...
i feel like doing what shayatanicas avatar is telling me you know. do away man. do away good.
i cant even think straight right now man...like
cant ...

anyway
i dont remember what i was talking about but
anway i give up.
im gonna goto that one CMH place
because..see..confsion and aggressivness DONT MIX
uh oh ahaha but im about to driving somewhere right now
pray i make it home safe.

[newtus]

nm i dont wanna go anywhere
im too scared
OMG I SEE....REAL LIVE PEOPLE
I THINK IM SCHIZOPHRENIC

lol im jk i have schizoaffective anyway.

on a serious note. i took my meds and even while abusing them i was fine. now i havent taken any cold turkey for a day cause im 100% out except for haldol which im not gonna take that. im hearing some whispers/screams...some voices accusing me of being weak for not killing myself outside of me and extremely heavy head talk inside of me.
i kind of findit imbarrassing that im talking to my self even though i do it anyway?

its like
------------->
<----------------

*hugs* Please go get help. At least get yourself in a less confused, less violent place dear. You don't need this ****. The voices, the paranoia, the self-destruction. You're not weak & you're not giving in. You are doing what is right: Taking care of yourself. You are the only you that you get in this lifetime. You need to take care of it; mentally, physically, emotionally.