My mum asked me to read this, because I don't usually sleep, I mean sometimes I do, but I don't sleep much. I was wondering what you guys do to help sleep. I can't sleep because I need to stay awake and watch the cctv and make sure I'm up in case He needs anything. Also I feel so low that I can't sleep, when I try all I have are thoughts in my head about how low and sad and depressed I am. I hate that.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-21572686

Prof Smith added: "Clearly sleep is critical to rebuilding the body and maintaining a functional state, all kinds of damage appear to occur - hinting at what may lead to ill health.

I haven't noticed anything about my body, what do you guys think, and how do you get to sleep?

[newtus]

i dont sleep much. i naturally cant sleep well. ive tried many diff things and found that only prescription meds help. but i dont take them much because i dont want to become addicted to it for sleeping.

I Sleep only if I take a seroquel. I didn't like taking them , I stopped. now I started a new medicine(lexapro,abilify) but I take it during the day because I want to be able to wake up before my husband in the mornings.last night I went to bed at 8:30pm usually don't go to bed until 10:30. I woke up at 12:00a.m. unstable. My daughter takes meletonin to help her sleep, however if you take any type of drugs, SSRI, anti-pchychotic etc, don't take any herbs as they have interactions that are not safe.
warm thoughts.

[cybermember]

Zolpidem ER and 3mg of time released melatonin are my saviors.

[costello]

My son has trouble with sleep too. I sometimes wonder if sz is actually a sleep disorder. People deprived of sleep for several days will tend to hallucinate. Also, my son has described his psychotic episodes as being like a waking dream.

There's a rare disease called fatal familial insomnia in which the person simply cannot sleep. It's always fatal. It presents in several stages with symptoms well-known to sufferers of sz.

The disease has four stages, taking 7 to 18 months to run its course:

1. The patient suffers increasing insomnia, resulting in panic attacks, paranoia, and phobias. This stage lasts for about four months.
2. Hallucinations and panic attacks become noticeable, continuing for about five months.
3. Complete inability to sleep is followed by rapid loss of weight. This lasts for about three months.
4. Dementia, during which the patient becomes unresponsive or mute over the course of six months. This is the final progression of the disease, after which death follows.

I wish my son could be evaluated by a sleep doctor.

[faerie_moon_x]

Sleep has a huge effect on the mind and body. It is very important for me to get proper sleep for my wellness.

I had terrible insomnia all my life that I can remember. I get horrible racing thoughts that won't let me sleep, constantly. That, and flash backs to being bullied. I couldn't sleep. Up until my husband moved in with me. I dont' know why, but if he is in the room with me I can fall asleep. It works best if he lays down next to me. I don't know why. He doesn't do anything, just for some reason I don't have the racing thoughts or flashbacks when he's there. So, my solution doesn't really help anyone but me.

[costello]

Originally Posted by dark_heart_x

So, my solution doesn't really help anyone but me.

You could rent your husband out.

Originally Posted by costello

The disease has four stages, taking 7 to 18 months to run its course:

1. The patient suffers increasing insomnia, resulting in panic attacks, paranoia, and phobias. This stage lasts for about four months.
2. Hallucinations and panic attacks become noticeable, continuing for about five months.
3. Complete inability to sleep is followed by rapid loss of weight. This lasts for about three months.
4. Dementia, during which the patient becomes unresponsive or mute over the course of six months. This is the final progression of the disease, after which death follows.

Stages 1 and 2 apply to me! Now I'm worried even more! I don't have a complete inability to sleep, but I can't sleep at night and only ever manage to sleep around 9am for 2-3 hours. Even then I feel I have to force myself.

I don't want dementia! That's for old people isn't it? Now what will I do. What can I eat to make me sleep more? I'm only taking Olanzapine 20mg, but not sleeping, I just met my Mental Health Team nurse today, she is nice and not like I first thought (I thought she was the police woman who arrested me!) and she said I am seeing a pDoctor for meds review in April but after speaking to me today, well I wouldn't call it speaking, because I can't manage a conversation, she seem more worried and said she needs to bring the review forward. My mum did tell her I stomp around all night, there was no need for her to say that about me, made me feel stupid.

[costello]

Originally Posted by HavingABadDay

Stages 1 and 2 apply to me! Now I'm worried even more!

If you're worried you have FFI, don't be. It's extremely rare and it runs in families. If you had it in your family, you'd know.

I just used it as an extreme example of what lack of sleep can do. It's very common for people who stay awake for several days to begin hallucinating and become paranoid and delusional. Even so-called 'normal' people.

My son says that even when he sleeps, it's seldom a deep, refreshing sleep. That's what makes me wonder if he's not getting to the deeper stages of sleep, and maybe that's why he has the mental health issues he has.

ETA: I think stages 1 and 2 describe almost everyone dx'd with sz.

ah ok okay. I can't remember the last proper sleep I had. Saying that I can't remember most things, so maybe I have.
I do remember this though, about a year or was it 2, but anyway, someone asked me, if you could have just one wish, what would it be. I said 'just one decent night of sleep would be enough'.

I would love to spend one day doing happy silly stuff, then relax and chill in the evening, then fall into deep sleep and wake up 8 or 9 hours later fully refreshed. That's what I miss. I hate thinking about this rubbish.

[costello]

Originally Posted by HavingABadDay

ah ok okay. I can't remember the last proper sleep I had. Saying that I can't remember most things, so maybe I have.
I do remember this though, about a year or was it 2, but anyway, someone asked me, if you could have just one wish, what would it be. I said 'just one decent night of sleep would be enough'.

I would love to spend one day doing happy silly stuff, then relax and chill in the evening, then fall into deep sleep and wake up 8 or 9 hours later fully refreshed. That's what I miss. I hate thinking about this rubbish.

I agree with your mom that sleep is very important. I was an insomniac most of my life, so I've had some taste of what you're suffering through. My son's insomnia, though, makes the insomnia I had look like child's play.

Anyway, because I had insomnia for four decades, I'm fascinated by sleep - and a bit obsessive about making sure I get enough. I 'cured' my insomnia by going on a low-carb diet. For most of my life - back to childhood - I lay awake for at least one hour (usually much more) before I fell asleep. Then I'd often wake up again at 2 or 3 am and stay awake for another 1 to 3 hours.

I went on a low-carb diet maybe 8 years ago. After the very first day, I found I could lie down, close my eyes and fall asleep - just like a 'normal' person.

Something in my diet was clearly interfering with sleep. I eliminated sugar, grains, and refined carbs. I've experimented over the years to see what could have been the problem and haven't been able to figure it out. It's probably the sugar, though. <=== Frowny face, because I love sugar - but I also love sleep.

I think it's worth examining your diet if you have insomnia. My son resists most of my efforts to get him to change his diet. He did try a gluten-free diet for a while, and it made no difference. I haven't been able to get him to give up sugar, though. I shudder when I see him drinking Gatorade or eating Pop Tarts.

[newtus]

when i eat carbs my stomach itches deep down after i eat it but idk if its that or not. but anything else i eat it doesnt do that. im a carb addict though.

costello you know way too much, like clever I mean, i mean that in a good way

I love sugar too. Newtus, not sure about carbs, Im not sure what foods thats in. I sometimes have toast and then if mum insists and its her food, I will eat something around 6 pm. Otherwise i have coffee and tea.

[faerie_moon_x]

Technically, we're all carb addicts because our bodies require carbs for fuel. Try getting them from different places. Instead of grains try fruits. See if it has the same effect.

As for the sleeping thing, Day, maybe try sleeping at different times of day. Our biological clocks are not all on a: go to bed at 10 get up at 6: schedule like society wants us. My clock tends to be more of a 1/2 a.m. to 8/9 a.m. clock. I struggle so much with sleeping on the "normal" schedule. Even after six years of getting up at 6 and going to bed at 11, I still feel like I've gotten 0 sleep at all.

I've really been struggling recently because something caused me to stay up until 2, which is when my body wants to lay down and go to sleep naturally. Now I haven't been able to get to bed before 1 a.m. for over a week! >.<

[newtus]

Originally Posted by HavingABadDay

costello you know way too much, like clever I mean, i mean that in a good way

I love sugar too. Newtus, not sure about carbs, Im not sure what foods thats in. I sometimes have toast and then if mum insists and its her food, I will eat something around 6 pm. Otherwise i have coffee and tea.

costello is great.
extremely helpful/knowledgeable.

but it doesnt itch on my skin but its deep deep down. like under my skin cause idk if stomach has nerves or something otherwise its my stomach.

c0FFeE is my FAVORITE

Hi Dark, you are right, i used to sleep at all different times of days and nights, then when i worked i had to wake up at like 7am and make sure i slept by 11pm ish. this was like forcing myself and i always felt anxious and like not having a good sleep. The times where i have been able to sleep free of time, is probably best sleep i had.

newtus you might be allergic. did someone already say that.

[newtus]

Originally Posted by HavingABadDay

newtus you might be allergic. did someone already say that.

no
but i got an allergy test a few months ago and nothing came up for gluten. it might be an intolerance or stomach issues. idk - in general i get nauseous easily and cant stand most foods for diff reasons. i dont eat dairy products cause lactose intolerance. dont eat eggs. and i rarely eat meat or not often anyways. very little. i mainly eat carbs and then candy and fruit/vegetables - is all i eat. mainly carbs.

(PS) tHEY DID A SCRATCH TEST ON ME AND NOTHING SHOWED UP ON ANYTHING BUT WHEN I LEFT ONE OF THE SCRATCHES INFLAMED AND ITCHED AND IDK WHICH ONE THAT WAS AND NOW ILL NEVER KNOW!!! im allergic to something but dont know now!!! could be anything!!!

[faerie_moon_x]

Hmmm... maybe you have a slow reaction to what you're allergic to.

I'm allergic to small chemicals and chemical reactions. So I might not be allergic to one thing, or another thing, but if you put them together then I am allergic. Really nothing can be done because they can't pinpoint exactly what I'm allergic to, since it's combinations.

But I'm also really sensitive to medications, cleaners, and soaps.

[costello]

I would dispute that we need carbs for fuel. The body can switch over to burning ketones if necessary. And the body can make glucose from protein. It is possible to live for long periods of time with very little carb in the diet. The traditional Eskimo diet, for example, is low on plants - for obvious reasons. Eskimos were actually healthier when they were eating their traditional diet.

I suspect that just eliminating obvious sources of sugar would help some people with unstable moods. Unfortunately so much of what we eat is processed crap that has added sugars, you'd still be getting a lot of sugar even after eliminating cookies, candy, ice cream, etc. Nevertheless, it's a good place to start. Sweets are necessary, and they play havoc with your blood sugar.

More and more I'm just cooking real food. It requires more effort, but I know what I'm putting in my mouth. Last night I made stuffed peppers. I used grass-fed beef (which is higher in omega-3's), green bell peppers, olive oil, tomato paste, some spices, and a little rice. Except for the rice and the tomato paste, none of it was 'processed' or 'manufactured' (why do we have food manufacturers! )

[costello]

There's a very interesting case study floating around the Internet. A woman of about 70 went on a low carb diet for weight loss and her hallucinations went away.

I can't seem to lay my hands on it right now, but from memory:

She'd been hearing voices since she was about 7 and had been dx'd with sz at 17. She'd been on multiple medications over the course of her life, and nothing had helped. She'd attempted suicide multiple times including several attempts in the months leading up to being put on the low carb diet. She'd had multiple hospitalizations.

After being instructed on the diet, she was scheduled for a follow-up appointment. During that appointment she mentioned in passing that on about day 8, her voices had stopped completely. They never came back.

In the case study the doctors talk about various reasons why the diet might have helped. They tentatively decide it was the elimination of gluten. That's why I tried my son on the gluten-free diet, but as I said it made no difference for him.

Obviously this is just one person, but I think it's sad that she went her whole life being tormented by voices, then a simple change in diet fixed it.

[costello]

Here it is: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/706137

Schizophrenia, Gluten, and Low-carbohydrate, Ketogenic Diets: A Case Report and Review of the Literature

C.D. is a 70 year-old Caucasian female with a diagnosis of schizophrenia since the age of seventeen. Her diagnosis was based on paranoia, disorganized speech, and hallucinations. She reported both auditory and visual hallucinations, including seeing skeletons and hearing voices that told her to hurt herself. According to her history, she has had these hallucinations on almost a daily basis since the age of seven. C.D. has also been hospitalized at least five times over the last six years for suicide attempts and increased psychotic symptoms. She has attempted to overdose on medications, cut herself, and ingest cleaning agents. Her most recent hospitalization was five months prior to initiating the low-carbohydrate diet. She has discussed both her suicidal ideations and her hallucinations with her psychiatrist who has tried to optimize her medication regimen in an effort to improve her symptoms, but this has been largely unsuccessful. Her prior anti-psychotic and mood-stabilizing medication regimen has included lithium 900 mg qhs, olanzapine (dose unknown), ziprasidone 40 mg bid, aripiprazole 30 mg qhs, lamotrigine 100 mg bid, and quetiapine 900 mg qhs. She is currently managed on risperidone 4 mg qhs.

C.D.'s other medical problems (and approximate year of diagnosis) included obesity (1950's), hypertension (1970's), depression (1940's), obstructive sleep apnea (2002), gastroesophageal reflux disease (2003), urinary incontinence (2002), glaucoma (1999), trochanteric bursitis (2004), peripheral neuropathy of unknown etiology (2006), and prior cholecystectomy (1978). Her current medications included atenolol 100 mg daily, furosemide 20 mg daily, trazodone 100 mg qhs, sertraline 100 mg daily, timolol eye drops 1 drop each eye bid, brimonidine eye drops 1 drop each eye bid, and vitamin E 400 IU every other day.

A typical day's diet consisted of the following: egg and cheese sandwich, diet soda, water, pimento cheese, barbequed pork, chicken salad, hamburger helper, macaroni and cheese, and potatoes. She rated her baseline fatigue as a "3" using a standardized questionnaire (0 = none, 4 = severe or frequent). Her body weight was 141.4 kilograms (BMI 52.6 kg/m2), sitting blood pressure (BP) was 130/72 mmHg, and pulse was 68 beats per minute. Physical examination showed an obese, mildly disheveled female with poor attention to hygiene, but was otherwise unremarkable. She was instructed how to follow a dietary regimen consisting of unlimited meats and eggs, 4 ounces of hard cheese, 2 cups of salad vegetables, and 1 cup of low-carbohydrate vegetables per day. This diet restricts carbohydrate intake to fewer than 20 grams per day.[1]

She returned for a follow-up appointment 7 days after starting the low-carbohydrate diet. She was feeling well, and noted an increase in energy. She was seen again in clinic 19 days later. When asked how she was doing, she responded that she was no longer hearing voices or seeing skeletons. She first noticed this upon awakening about 8 days after starting the program. She had had no change in medication. The only change had been in her dietary intake which now consisted of beef, chicken, turkey, ham, fish, green beans, tomatoes, diet drinks, and water. She denied hunger. C.D. was very happy that she was no longer hearing voices, and believed that it made her calmer. Her body weight was 136.2 kilograms, sitting BP was 150/84 mmHg, and pulse was 76 beats per minute.

Over the course of 12 months, C.D. has continued the low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet and has had no recurrence of her auditory or visual hallucinations. She has also continued to lose weight (body weight 131.4 kilograms) and experience improvements in her energy level. She acknowledged having 2-3 isolated episodes of dietary non-compliance that lasted several days, where she ate pasta, bread, and cakes around the winter holidays; however she had no recurrence of her hallucinations.

There's more at the link.

[newtus]

im scared because i have a feeling theres nothing physical that causes what i go through but i wish there was. something in the back of my head says there is but im scared there isnt.

[costello]

Originally Posted by newtus

im scared because i have a feeling theres nothing physical that causes what i go through but i wish there was. something in the back of my head says there is but im scared there isnt.

Personally I think taking an approach that addresses both physical health and emotional/cognitive health is best.

Get enough sleep/rest. Stay away from mind-altering substances as much as you can (including most sugar and caffeine). Get some kind of exercise you enjoy. Eat whole foods as much as possible.

[newtus]

Originally Posted by costello

Personally I think taking an approach that addresses both physical health and emotional/cognitive health is best.

Get enough sleep/rest. Stay away from mind-altering substances as much as you can (including most sugar and caffeine). Get some kind of exercise you enjoy. Eat whole foods as much as possible.

thas very hard especially sleep

[costello]

Originally Posted by newtus

thas very hard especially sleep

Yeah. I do understand that.