thought loops

I was thinking about what we were talking about in roll call about thought loops. I then noticed PC has an OCD screening, so I took it just to see how it came out. I got a 2, which isn't likely for OCD. Of course it's not for diagnosis, but I'm thinking thought loops maybe are something different.

My 2 questions that I answered were about intrusive thoughts and the fear of acting on them. Just so you know.

I didn't find anything else on there that really fits. I would say a good definition of a thought loop is: a distressing event which triggers continued obsessive thoughts on that event and results in series of either intrusive thoughts, and/or a cumplsive/impulsive actions to resolve the triggering event. Once a resolution is reached, the the thoughts subside.

So if it is a form of it, it's not one on the OCD screening test here.

The Different Types of Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder | OCD-UK

So I found this the other day when I was looking up rumination and OCD and rumination/intrusive thoughts are considered a subtype you don't have to have the other classic OCD behaviors---albeit this is from the UK so I'm not sure if they have a different definition there. Anyway their definition of rumination sounds pretty philosophical which is different than how my T defined it----more like the worrying and thought loops so there is a class with just rumination and intrusive thoughts. I'm starting to wonder if this might be something more characteristic of the tendency to have psychosis somehow my whole life I just assumed other people did this but now I have no idea if they do or not....

I know they have a 'pure O' form of OCD, which is mostly obsessions rather than compulsions. Do you think that your thought loops might be obsessional?

*Willow*

Here is one paper with some handy flow charts of how rumination leads to hallucination...I didn't really read it just looked at the chart but this is more or less the same theory we learned about in cbt..

http://www.charlesfernyhough.com/papers/J&F%20BRAT.pdf

Thanks, Sometimes. I'll look at that when I can think more clearly. I'm trying to get everything like, a list, of things I have big issues with so when I set up to see the pdoc later this year I am prepared, you know? I also am wondering if it has something to do with a psychosis thing, or maybe it's a mixture thing.

Some things that have brought this forward for me to wonder about is because of the similarities I seem to have with Costello's son and conflict. When I have a conflict, my mind has to replay it over and over and over. Conflict causes a big loop for me. If I can't continuously go over the conflict with the person I have an issue with, for example, I can pace around for hours and even days running and re-running every aspect of it through my mind. It sends me into horrendous mixed moods and results in episodes and triggers SI problems in many cases. Even if the other person involved feels things are resolved, the loop can really get it's claws into me. Some loops never really go away, they can be retriggered at later times. Thought loops triggered by my bullying from junior high and high school would retrigger all the way until I was 25 years old.

Other instances of thought loops are if I have a problem I can't resolve quickly. Example, when my phone broke. I had to wait until my upgrade to get a new phone, which was 6 months away. I would go through phases of thought loops. For days on end I would research ways to fix my phone or get a new one, never finding a resolution. Eventually I could talk myself down enough to stop. But, something would trigger it and it would restart.

Also... These are times especially when I talk to Other Me - trying to go over and over again with her how to stop or calm down. I used to live in a house that you could walk in a circle from the living room > kitchen > dinning room > den > living room. I was home alone a lot in my teen years, because no mom and my dad worked nights. It was very common for me to walk that circle for 7-8 hours a day trying to resolve my thought loops with Other Me.

Willow: Yes, I think they are obsessional while they happen. But, they are always caused by triggers. Usually a conflict or problem, but I can also get them over good things like getting too excited about something I'm interested in or looking forward to can also cause them.

I have this to a much milder extent...but say I'm walking in traffic and cross and crosswalk with a green light and some dude turning the corner almost runs me over when they have a red...I can be upset for hours or days even though there was really nothing I could have done differently...This is what I'm talking about with my anger issues lately I was worried about our new post-doc ordering a type of tissue culture flask and how I might have to deal with her if she didn't order it since it impacts everybody in the lab. I got in on Monday and she had actually remembered to order it---so I got all worked up for nothing. Thought loops, rumination etc its much less intense than it was before my psychosis but since I feel that its a trigger for the voices and because it just sucks in general I don't want it back in my life. The combo of cbt and meds got rid of it and I was fine for 4 months off the meds but now its creeping back in. I think its just been a part of my life for so long that my brain is still sort of wired up to think that way and those circuits are no longer being inhibited by the meds but I would like to control them so I'm working on cognitive restructuring and mindfulness mediation right now. I will let you guys know if anything works for this...

Yes, it think if worry is a scale of 1 - 10, I hit 10 pretty easily for things just like you describe. I think everyone does this in certain situations, but hitting 10 on a regular basis is not the normal thing. Like normal worry won't hit 10 because you think maybe you picked out the wrong type of pie for a potluck.

I don't know if this is kind of what you call a thought loop, but I go through times, usually triggered like yours, where I just get stuck on a topic and go over and over it for hours trying to resolve the problem. It's usually anger or anxiety that triggers it for me. I'll spend hours going over what they said and what I said and what I should've said and sort of mentally role-playing different scenarios that could've happened. Or I'll spend hours fretting about something that might happen; what they might say, what's the best thing for me to say back, how I should behave etc etc etc.

I don't think I've ever figured out how to stop it though. Usually it happens in bed when I'm trying to go to sleep, and I'll just go on and on and on for hours until I eventually pass out with tiredness. I did this just last night in anticipation for my pdoc appt today! I've actually done this for as long as I can remember.

*Willow*

yes, that's exactly two things I go through as well. I dont' have bedtime ones any more, which is huge. But I used to. And, it's like being stuck on the same track of a record or movie. The same thing over and over until you just can't take it. Sometimes I'm really aware of it and sometimes I'm not. I've become far more aware of it now than when I was a kid. I had no idea this was something troubling at all and felt it was just normal. As I've gained more insight into other issues this one has become clear. I can lose a whole day and not even realize it.

Example: last Friday I spent 4 hours making a book about anxiety for my son with worksheets of simplified ABC therapy type of stuff. I was caught in a loop thinking he's having psychosomatism like me, and anxiety, adn what if he has bipolar? I just wanted to help him so bad. I lost my entire work morning. I had no idea I'd spent the whole morning on it, it felt like only about 30 minutes tops. Then, I decided not to give it to him in the end due to anxiety about giving it to him after all that work....

How did you stop the night time ones, or did they go on their own? I don't usually get them during the day, well they don't last anywhere near as long because I can usually distract myself out of it. But at night time there's nothing to do except try to relax and go to sleep so it just gets out of control for me :/

Yeah I can relate to putting so much effort into something that you're afraid to give it in case it's not appreciated. It's just too risky to make yourself so vulnerable by revealing something you've put your heart and soul into. Well that's how I feel about it anyway

*Willow*

I don't know what made the night ones go away. Just like my insomnia, once my husband moved in with me I stopped having really bad insomnia about 90% of the time. Thought loops and also waking up from what I called "flashbacks" with like bullies yelling at me, those also went away. I don't know why. My only guess is that he must make me feel safe enough to fall asleep, which is great! He doesn't do anything. Just his presence. He doesn't even know, actually. And during the bad time when I first came here to PC, I actually was having all my old problems.

I have to note that my previous marriage, my ex didn't have the same effect on me.

I did feel my son wouldn't really appreciate it. Or, his dad would find it and rip it up. I felt kind of dumb having made it, like I was being smarter than I should be or something and making too big of a deal out of everything.

Thanks for that Faerie I'm sorry about all your effort being wasted. I thought it was interesting that you said "...I was being smarter than I should be..." like you're not 'allowed' to be smart. I think you're smart I know that you struggle cognitively, but that doesn't stop you being smart. My Dad always says he's stupid and that makes me sad, because I really don't think he's stupid at all. His english is very poor because no one taught him to read until he was 11yo (even though he attended school!), but he's really good at maths and he's so practical in ways that I'm not even though I'm considered 'book smart' i.e. he can just look at a problem and see a simple practical solution. Anyway I'm rambling but I just wanted to say that I thought you were smart and that it's a shame that you feel you should hide that or 'dumb down'

*Willow*

Thanks Willow, I really appreciate that.

I know I'm really smart, and I think I said it wrong. Like... I often feel like I overstep myself and give too much advice or too much help until I become annoying. Just like I talk too much. Other people get annoyed with me all the time, like I can see my work friends are sick of me. Peole just get sick of me. And it's because I know things and I can't shut up so I talk. Or, I guess sometimes I feel I know things and the same thing happens, I just talk and maybe should be quiet. So, I felt that's what I was doing with my son. I was making too big of a step too soon.... it's hard for me to judge these things.

And Willow, I think you're really smart, too, and all this stuff you've been going through is just wrong. You deserve so much more and I think you can get it, and it's because you're smart I think you'll find a way around your obsticles.

i have thoughts that repeat over and over until i get mad. and tell it to shut up. but i cant control it. i sometimes wonder if i have components of OCD. but i dont really care about diagnoses. i havent found a wayto fix it. i guess i just manage it.