What's the point?

I found the whole discussion interesting....

I agree with Sky that threads don't tend to be locked here unless "padlocked".... (but maybe I, too misunderstood Doc John's words )

Looking forward to new threads on other topics here

Perna, I think you misunderstood... I was not talking about *this* thread, I was trying to explain what we mean when we close a thread...

That is to say that when we close a thread (as shown by the lock on the thread), we do so because (a) there is some redeeming value in the majority of the thread that we want to keep public; and (b) we've tried to prune the thread by removing an offending post or such, but people continue to post inappropriate (e.g., going against the guidelines) things to it.

Trust me when I say that we close most threads only after a fair amount of discussion amongst the moderation team.

This thread is still open....!

John

woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooohooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

Down, I'm thinking that life IS the point.

and i'm thinking that Down's point is how frustrating it is to be stymied by restraints on discussing life........

Rapunzel said: "I wonder, since you ask what's the point, what is the point in staying here if you are unhappy? What do you like about being here that keeps you hanging around?"

I think these are valid questions for this thread.

Many times I find that there is some unhappiness in even the good things. PC is one of them?

One of the things that makes me unhappy is that I don't have many opportunties to expound upon areas that I need to work on. I'm not positive of the complete reasonings on this, but I'm pretty sure it's because I think so differently than others, have had such varied experiences than most here (not all) and others just aren't sure how to counsel with me. Some, who might have simple solutions, don't post them I think because they think they can't possibly have a solution for me Plus, and I hope this isn't any part of admin issues, I feel that I run amok with posting anything heavy that requires ongoing posting/discussion, that it just isn't allowed and that I should be above needing to do that.

So I feel that my only real reason to be here is to support others. Not so terrible, except that no one can give, give, give without refueling. I stay because I have the hope of refueling from time to time.

I also stick around because I think I can do more good than bad here...and my altruistic nature is fed enough to help keep me going.

i don't agree with you, totally, sky..........i don't believe we can compare experiences with others and reason that that is why they can't answer our posts with support. i'd be more inclined to look inward to ask myself what am i really asking for? there could be a variety of things that i'm wanting that i need to understand about myself before i can expect others to understand my needs.

posting for responses instead of reactions works pretty well. i try very hard to always respond........but when i do react, i usually screw up......and that works both ways.

and as far as how others think......that's pretty abstract. thinking is just that......thinking.......it depends upon so many factors in any one given moment that that is pretty "iffy" here. no one here is perfect......no one is any better than anyone else on any given day. so, we all come together and take what we can use and give more than we thought we could and grow.

i'm sorry that your needs aren't being met here. you certainly put in a lot of time and effort. let me know if i can help you.......pat

(((((((((((((( Sky )))))))))))))) PM me if you want or need to!

Oh, I was just responding to Rapunzel's post. I'm not begging for attention.

Sky, I completely agree with you.

I find it to be true that after you listen to someone or read them, you get a feel for how they think. You get to know their reactions, what helps and what is going to make someone angry or simply start an argument without basis... just because.

I think that lots of people don't respond to some problems because they really don't know how ... or they're deep in their mental illness and that doesn't let them understand, they can't concentrate on what's being said.

Oftentimes, I come here looking to be refuled and simply don't find it. Just recently I asked Admin to lock one of my threads because I could see an argument starting. I was simply stating my FEELINGS. *I* know that feelings aren't facts, but I was left wondering if those responding know that.

Something I'm unsure about, too, about ways of thinking. Seems to me there are a few that jump at the chance to start an argument. Never mind validating anyone else's thinking or feelings. It doesn't make anyone "better" or "worse"; "more" or "less" when they aren't cognitive of these things in them. They're just at a different level of their journey. No one has told them or life hasn't come up and slapped them in the face, like it has you and me, and made them realize these things. And then, of course, there's those that think they don't need to change.

My friend, I understand your need to carry some conversations further sometimes. I do, too. PC, although it's a great place, can't be our all-in-all. We need to look elsewhere sometimes.

I honor you and respect highly your opinions... for whatever that's worth. I don't have the knowledge and wisdom you do.

i didn't think that you were begging for attention. i thought you were discussing what you're getting from the forums or not. i have times when i feel like i'm yelling down a black hole.

If you are always giving and your needs are not being met, you will burn out. Even if you are here for sake of altruism, it is okay to have needs too, and to say so.

I think that most people feel that they 'think differently' than others. How many of us feel misunderstood in PC and/or real life at times?

Putting that up as an obstacle to posting just delays the process of moving forward.

I like to talk to and receive/give feedback from or to people who think differently from the way I do. The only reason I don't respond to certain people on a consistent basis is if they 1) don't seem to want opinions that differ from their own, 2) are excessively defensive, 3) are rude, or 4) are so stuck that despite all of the support they get, never make any changes to move forward, and merely complain about the same things over and over, expecting everyone else to do all of the changing. (edit - just to clarify I'm referring to the support I give as a member (not as admin) in the public forums)

About PC, think SeptMorn said it well. I don't always agree with every decision made here either, but I don't expect PsychCental to be my entire world. When I want to talk about politics, I talk to my friends or neighbors or fellow RL volunteers. When I want to talk about religious impact on society and myself, I take those discussions elsewhere.

PC is where I go to get and give support for mental health issues. I've made some very close friendships here, but I still balance where I look to get my needs met.

I hope that the majoriy of members who participate at PC find it to be a good place for support for their real-life mental health issues, and in the process make some friends.

We have just gone through an active discussion which has many roots that are unknown to me. So I can't help with the blocking of posts and threads, but there seems that several posters are disappointed with the quality, helpfulness, and constructiveness of many posts on this forum.

I'd like to raise a question: What percentage of posters on this forum are giving Empathy Responses? As I have mentioned before therapists often (maybe 90% or more of the time) make empathy comments that make the talker feel understood and comfortable with the therapist. Empathy responding opens up the discussion of the real problems underneath and of the possible solutions to the problems.

I'd encourage many of you to read about Empathy Responses (starting on page 8 of Chapter 13) and try to use them when responding and helping a fellow forum member (even the ones that irritate you). Please tell us your experience with this kind of response on this forum.

drclay

As a matter of fact, ALL of our posts, chats, and PMs are to display support for the member.

What I have thought about regarding Down's initial dilemma is that I understand it better that I did.

What appears to be some member's reason for being here, a problem with a symptom of a disorder, can't be healthily discussed here. It's frustrating. It also causes me some anger at times, because I think of PC as the best support site around, and it should be able to help me!!! If not here, where??? (Session, of course.) See?

Then, it also appears to me that when such a symptom causes distress among other members, the objective is to send them away until it's fixed. (Suspension.) It's necessary to keep the status quo of the site, but I sure can understand how illogical it feels to the member being told to leave until they get the symptom under control.

"Then, it also appears to me that when such a symptom causes distress among other members, the objective is to send them away until it's fixed. (Suspension.) "

... that's always a LAST resort after many, many other attempts to discuss or resolve the problem have been made.

"It also causes me some anger at times, because I think of PC as the best support site around, and it should be able to help me!!! If not here, where??? (Session, of course.) See?"

Hon, could be that because of your intelligence and your education, it's difficult even to stay up with you!

"I sure can understand how illogical it feels to the member being told to leave until they get the symptom under control."

Oh really????? I didn't realize it was ever worded like that! LOL

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LMo said:
"Then, it also appears to me that when such a symptom causes distress among other members, the objective is to send them away until it's fixed. (Suspension.) "

... that's always a LAST resort after many, many other attempts to discuss or resolve the problem have been made.

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If I may ask? - then when is that last resort done / taken, as to keep PC open and safe for all that come here.

When is it deemed that a person will not stop their negative behavior toward another, and/ or (others)?
... 6 months, 1 year, 5 years ? ? ?

LoVe,
Rhapsody -

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
drclay said:
We have just gone through an active discussion which has many roots that are unknown to me...

I'd like to raise a question:
What percentage of posters on this forum are giving Empathy Responses? As I have mentioned before therapists often (maybe 90% or more of the time) make empathy comments that make the talker feel understood and comfortable with the therapist. Empathy responding opens up the discussion of the real problems underneath and of the possible solutions to the problems.

drclay

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I would have to REPLY with a 95-97% of the time...
the majority of people that come to PC are here to receive HELP and to lend SUPPORT to others that are trying to learn, heal and survive as they are.

BUT - in all reality it is the 3-5% of NEGATIVE / HARASSING replies from a rare few that seems to stir up this wonderful website, therefore, leaving many members with the feelings of being uneasy and scared to post in open forum - - from FEAR of being treated the same way.

I personally have only been done wrong by 2 or 3 members here on PC in the entire year that I have been around, but it is these few that keep ME from sharing of my PAINS / WOUNDS as I once did... for I have been emotionally hurt by them.... for I openly and honestly shared of my wounded past and now a rare few try to use my words against me (but with in their own interpretation).

- the sad part of it all...
is that at one time at least one of them pretended to be my friend and then with out warning turned on ME.

LoVe,
Rhapsody -

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Rhapsody said:
If I may ask? - then when is that last resort done / taken, as to keep PC open and safe for all that come here.

When is it deemed that a person will not stop their negative behavior toward another, and/ or (others)?
... 6 months, 1 year, 5 years ? ? ?

LoVe,
Rhapsody -

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Hi Rhapsody:
I'm glad you asked this question - this is a good opportunity to publicly answer a common question, especially since there aren't any major active conflicts right now (so nobody needs to worry that any part of this is about them personally).

Yes, it takes months. Why? Because this site is intended for mental health support. We do understand that our members are normal people who maybe don't have the best communication skills (ie, me), and for those members who WANT support and WANT to improve, then who are we to say "we don't believe that you are ever going to change"?

Banning is a last resort, and rarely issued. Suspension only happens if, after we have tried to work with the member to resolve active conflicts, they refuse to comply with our suggestions and keep posting against the guidelines or harass members.

Most of the time, when we try to work with members about whom we receive complaints, the member seems pretty open to the feedback and they do their best to apply it.

Sometimes, they lash out and tell us to go... well... you get the idea. Those times are not fun, and it doesn't indicate that they are willing to work toward a better community experience. If they soon calm down and appear open to working out the conflict, then of course we encourage them to stay and do that. If not... well, we can only do so much given the amount of time we have and the need for peace in this community. We always issue several warnings before we suspend someone, but from time to time we've had to make some exceptions in extreme cases.

However, the situations that are the most frustrating are the members who agree to work harder to maintain peaceful communication with other members, seem to really want to do it, but then keep using the same disruptive behavior over and over again. This is where it turns into a very controversial and ethical issue among the moderation team. Who are WE to accuse members of being insincere? But at the same time, other members in the community are hurting at the disruptiveness of a single member's actions. Is the member disruptive because of his/her mental health issues, or do they really have hurtful intentions? It becomes so subjective and the existing moderation team often has wildly different perspectives (which is a good thing, actually), so it takes a while to reach any kind of consensus about what is the most FAIR way to resolve the problem. We never act until we have reached consensus. That is why it often appears that we are doing nothing to resolve a problem; what is really happening is that we haven't reached consensus.

Before I was a moderator, I remember an incident with a member who drove everyone insane for several months. I got majorly frustrated with the moderators because they didn't appear to be doing ANYTHING. But now that I'm on the other side of the fence, I realize how unethical it would be to ban someone merely for being irritating. Yet at the same time, how do we communicate to the community that we are working on it, without publicly singling out the 'irritating' member? And even if we do announce that we are 'working on it', there are always those who don't believe us and frankly, I can understand why patience wears thin but I haven't figured out any way to be FAIR AND make everyone happy. Probably because it can't be done (but I'm still trying!)

But, it goes two-ways. We aren't 'police' here. We expect all members to use appropriate self-care, which entails:
- use the Ignore feature to avoid reading posts of someone who irritates you
- don't PM or reply to posts made by someone who you don't like unless you are working to resolve the conflict rather than push your point
- consider whether there is anything you can do on your side to come to an understanding with the member
- remember COMPASSION; none of us are perfect

As Lee Ann points out the hard work, decisions, dedication, intent, and sometimes frustration that takes place in working as a moderator or administrator here, I'd like to take the opportunity to publicy THANK each and every one of these special people for the same I've listed above and so much more.

Each of these tirelessly dedicated people amaze me to the point that I'm regularly humbled. I'm humbled at the care, dedication and concern taken by each of them. Not one of them hesitates to go above and beyond ANYTIME it's called for.

We're the lucky/blessed ones to have these really beautiful and caring people in our lives here at PC.

As with me, I think the driving force that keeps them going is that those same wonderful aspects are literally radiated by the very special members here...the combination making the best mental health website available in my opinion.

KD

LMo:

I would think that moderators, like you, speaking out is a very good thing. The rest of us can emphathize with doing that tough job. It is also an essential job. Otherwise, there would frequently be harsh criticism, meanness and/or people with their own bizarre message on the forums. I'm new here but I was on DocJohn's original forums, so I know. Thanks LMo for telling the administrator's perspective...and for doing it in a reasonable, congenial way.

Just one brief point: when I use the term Empathy Responding I mean a specific kind of therapeutic response frequently given by therapists but also a central feature of almost all good listeners. Many posters seem to use the term as though it means understanding, congenial and supportive responses. I notice that I give very few Empathy Responses on this forum, thus far, because I am usually trying to make an instructional point (like right now), not trying to help me to understand a person's emotions and reasons for their behavior.

I notice _Sky has recently described this wonderful communication technique on another thread but she didn't use the term of Empathy. That doesn't matter just so long as we understand each other's language.

drclay

Sometimes it is helpful to use a specific term or a therapeutic concept when trying to understand helping and self-helping. That is why I have referred people to my Chapter 13, page 8. It takes a few pages but Empathy is a rather precise concept...that anyone can use.

DrClay, I have a couple of questions/comments.

When I was hospitalized in a psych ward for depression, one of the psychologists there explained Empathy vesus Sympathy. Simply put, sympathy is jumping into the depression pit with someone else, making it difficult for both to get out. Empathy is understanding and acknowledging the other's feelings but staying outside the pit and giving them a hand up. Do you agree with this analogy?

Could you give us all some line of demarcation or something similar between Support and Enabling?

Thank you ahead of time.