What's the point?

SeptemberMorn, I like this definition of empathy, "appreciation of another's problems and feelings without experiencing the same emotional reaction." Sympathy, for me, goes further to the other person trying to fix your problems, often because they're the one who is made uncomfortable by them. I especially like the word "appreciation" used with this definition of empathy. To me it almost adds an air of hope or trust that the unpleasant situation isn't permanent and that the other person trusts I can get out of it and wants me to know they're an interested bystander, curious to see how I do it and what they can learn from me and to know if there's anyway they can help, let them know and they'll see what they can do :-) Did you see The Princess Bride? I think of Wesley and Inigo fighting and helping one another out at the same time. They had empathy for one another's story and problems. Empathy is "respectful". Sympathy is like charity to me, often more help to the person giving it than to the one receiving.

Oh, darn! There for a moment I thought it was me that had used to word "appreciation." It wasn't. LOL That's okay.

I agree with you and they way you expressed it. You said it better than I.

LMo said: I can understand why patience wears thin but I haven't figured out any way to be FAIR AND make everyone happy. Probably because it can't be done (but I'm still trying!)

Fairness can be understood and accepted, imo, if all are shown the fairness value. While that might not be possible, since maybe a mod gives one person leeway one time and another another time, it is something to think about.

If full communication isn't available, then actions might not be realized as fair, though they may well be.

Using good wording is important also. If someone wishes to tell a group of ppl the same thing but in different messages, it's best to use the same words. Trying to adapt each message to the recipient endangers the final message.

Asking for an understanding by having the recipient repeat back what they heard (read) might also prevent future upheaval and consternation by moderators/admin. "What you think you said is not what I heard?"

It's important also to not fall into the pitfalls of the cognitive distortions. Showing exasperation, using the word "insane", taking things personally... none of those work to better the communication.

Just saying "I" understand isn't enough imo. An example of what I think is being felt or thought would show that I do understand...or don't. And yes, making sure the communication is showing empathy and not sympathy is a biggie too, imo. Sometimes it isn't easy to show empathy without taking a situation personally, but we must. It's also important to not read into what was in the past, what situation you might have had mingled with what is going on today. All things are new and different. Each situation carries it's own merit imo.

And sometimes I just think that no matter what a person says, or how they say it,the other person isn't ready to hear it from "you." If a person is responsible for giving out bad news, no one wants to hear from them - ever? If all they ever receive from someone is a warning or put down... why would they want to listen? A relationship has to be built, imo, before someone can rest upon it to try and work through a situation.

Just my POV.

These are good suggestions - thanks

Ok, so digesting.... and agreeing with most of what you wrote

I have a question about this (looking for all opinions here):

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If a person is responsible for giving out bad news, no one wants to hear from them - ever? If all they ever receive from someone is a warning or put down... why would they want to listen? A relationship has to be built, imo, before someone can rest upon it to try and work through a situation.

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Since there are over 500 users that log in each week, and over 1300 that log in each month, I'm not sure that it is realistic that the moderators/administrators can develop a relationship with each of them. Actually, I KNOW that it isn't. And it goes both ways - we'll all have an easier time making amends if members try to develop a relationship with the mods/admins.

Good thoughts though; thanks for taking the time to think them through and post them for us. Keep them coming, if you have more.

Let me clarify? "A relationship has to be built, imo, before someone can rest upon it to try and work through a situation. "

Not all responses "rest upon a relationship." But if the one from the website is trying to do this, where no relationship is, that is problematic. One has to build a relationship before assuming benefits of it.

SeptemberMorn:

Thanks for the good questions. I'll just respond off-the-cuff without looking up a formal definition and without consulting with an authority. OK?

First of all let me say that definitions are arbitrary, i.e. an author can simply state arbitrarily that he/she is going to define and use a term in a certain way. In ordinary speech, however, we use casual definitions, not precisely defined terms and , thus, each of us may have in mind a slightly different definition when we use a term.. That is no problem usually in ordinary conversation where generally understood terms can be used.

Of the four terms--empathy, sympathy, support and enabling--in my mind only empathy often has a precise definition in psychology and that is because empathy is a well defined concept and behavior used as a therapeutic technique in counseling/therapy. Actually,people who treat addictions probably have and use very precise definitions of enabling but I don't except it usually means to me that someone (friend, spouse, relative) reinforces or encourages the addict to indulge in his/her unwanted habit. This kind of problem, called co-dependency, is discussed in Chapter 8.

Empathy, as your hospital psychologist defined it, is a general casual term describing understanding and usually verbalizing the other person's feelings (depression in your situation). In addition I think of empathy as being much more complicated involving responding to the other person's verbal and physical reactions to your informed "guess" about how they are feeling. The process is likely to go on for an hour or much longer, or at least several minutes. That is why I refer people to my Chapter 13, page 8.to learn about empathy. Many therapists primarily give empathy responses for weeks or months or years. That may seem like a lazy, ineffective therapy but I can assure you that it takes skill and is a very revealing, probing, effective, respectful technique. And it can be done by anyone who is insightful and caring (if they will give the time--it is not a quick cure!)

I agree with your hosptial psychologist's characterization of sympathy as being emotionally sensitive to the depressed/upset person's feelings, often responding with the same strong feelings. The helper's emotional responses may not make them unable to help but it may be helpful in a different way (I love the story in Chapter 6 of the three-year-old neighbor girl who helped by crawling into the lap and crying with the next door neighbor who had just lost her 3-year-old son.

As I have mentioned, enabling is and can be used to mean helping another person to do something that is not for their own good, like drinking too much or over-spending. But one can "enable" a person to increase their income or go to college. In general, support means being helpful to a person by helping them achieve some desirable objectiive they want. It can be words of encouragement, bits of good advice, or just being there to help...

drclay

Thank you, Doctor. I see I'm gonna have to buy your book. Haven't read a really good book in a long time. What I've seen of yours, I know I'll love it!

To sum it all up in a nutshell........ every MEMBER of PC deserves to be treated with R.E.S.P.E.C.T.

.... No matter what!! - and if YOU seem to be resonated by another member, then it is up to YOU to deal with it, so please do not take ones own inner issues out on another - EVER!!

LoVe,
Rhapsody -

P.S.

AND know....... that IF attacked then the member will attack back - that's Human Nature - to DEFEND.

.... so as with any problem - it is best to never wound in the first place.

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IF attacked then the member will attack back - that's Human Nature - to DEFEND.

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I beg to differ! If a member feels attacked and retaliates, then the retaliatory member isn't in control of his/herself or their emotions. It's also rather immature.

Have you heard the old saying "It takes a bigger man to walk away from a fight"?

How interesting. This is a hot topic -- on fire. It seems there are many points to be made on the topic of "What's the point?"

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Wants2Fly said:
How interesting. This is a hot topic -- on fire. It seems there are many points to be made on the topic of "What's the point?"

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Thank you for making me smile!!! I could use it today!

SeptemberMorn:

Wait a minute! You don't have to buy my book. Indeed, due to the 30 years I have put into it and due to help for 10 years from DocJohn getting it online, the 1750 page book is given away. Just click on the book title below and you can read all of it online. If you want to have a chapter or several chapters or the whole thing in print, go to Download on the left margin of the first Table of Contents page. That tells you how to get the chapters downloaded to your own computer for saving or for printing. It is our gift and Psychology's gift to you.

After you do some reading, I'd like to get some feedback through the Feedback form (also on the Table of Contents page) or by posting on the Sharing Self-Help Ideas Forum here on PC.

drclay

Thanks, Dr. Clay! I'll be sure to download it.

Hey, Fuzz! Who killed this thread? You or me? LOL

If it's dead, then let's move on to a new thread!

Still in the process of picking up my jaw off the floor because the thread didn't get locked!