i can not

Something I said to a friend earlier today comes to mind. We were talking about what I would say to a camper who was queer if I ever went back to being a councilor at a Christian camp. I told her "I would pull them aside at some point, very discretely so no one else knew, and tell them 'God loves you. I don't think you chose to be queer, you just are. And since you just are, you were made this way, and God made you, so I don't see any reason that you should try and change what God made you. But if you still want to follow God through the church community (and I'd be supportive of that), you have to keep in mind that most people don't agree with that. If you want to be queer and part of church, you will have to keep quiet about it. Don't let that hinder you from your walk with God. If you find a partner, make sure they understand that your God comes first, and that they are supportive of that.'"

There was a bit more too it, but I would offer you similar advice. I can't give you a pre-scripted solution of things to say and people to talk to, but I can say that your sexuality should not make you doubt your faith, that your faith is a good place to turn to at times like these, and that it's not bad to keep quiet if thats what you want. So I would say no, don't tell your family. Personally; no, don't suppress this and seclude yourself. Don't be afraid to be with someone, as long as he knows that your love for Allah and your duty to your family are more important to you than being gay and he not only has no right to ask or make you come out to them, but that this should not have to be a topic of discussion further down the road.

From my own parents (who technically accept me but it's really awkward) "We're open and accepting of you, but there are things that parents and children just shouldn't discuss. Your sex life (strong subtest: and sexuality) are one of them. We love you, but we just don't want to know."

Sorry if my comments seem disjointed from the current flow of conversation. I read through this, though I admit I only skimmed the last few posts.

Cheers,
KLove

I don't know what to say anymore. but just let me as simple as i can. I am dwelling with 2 very, very different perspective. the one where i just turn my back on my family and walk this road alone to be myself (that's what will this come to unhappyguy) or keep pretending and try to ba as happy as it's humanly possible when you feel like the most lonely person that has ever been created (that's what brought me here in the first place Klove).
so basically i am screwed somehow bothways now that's the biggest sign of love! God does really love me and put a lot of care planning my miserable life so i don't get to see any light of hope.
don't get me wrong, i was big on faith, no one taught me to believe, everyone around me took it for granted, i walked that road alone, i searched and learned, found God and loved him so much. when i discovered i am gay, i just stopped thinking about him, becaue i couldn't bare the thought of losing him. but i was a kid. now i dry my tears and say to myself, i am just a human, his creation, i can't possibly have the insight into the Big Plan.
the sad truth is, that doesn't help anymore, i don't feel loved by him anymore, or anyone else for that matter. in fact it s not a feeling, it s the truth.
so yey, i ll be miserable anyway, i can go with what unhappyguy suggested "don't be a slave" -please man, i am really relieved in a way, that you see these dark thoughts in my head on your own, but don't you dare talk harm about my family again, i am the liar, they are not enslaving me, i volunteered. thanks- or live my life behind a mask like KLove suggests and keep lying to the people i love for the ultimate good. somehow i can't see that happening any soon ^^' first, to find someone/partner i have to say i am gay, or hang out with gays, so it won't really be a secret, and eventually it will blow up! and i don't believe that love/aaffection can be nurrished through lies.

ok maybe tonight i am sounding very negative, can't help it though. has been a tough day or week, honestly i can't tell the difference, so maybe i ll get back to you with some different reply next time i read your post.
so Klove thanks for the advice, and unhappyguy i won't thank you again because you asked me not to be safe people and keep up the good work!

Okay, this one I'm going to say for me, because I've been there and I hated it but I want you to know that I got past it and you can to.

I've always been religious. My family's not, I found my spirituality all on my own, and I think that's what makes my faith so strong. I started off Christian, and still am in some regards in that I see God as the Abrahamic God from a 'not quite christian' perspective now. But I started off Christian, and strongly so.

When I was in high school I realized I was bi, and then started dating a girl, and from that moment on my faith, my convictions, my ability to pray, all of it just evaporated. When I prayed it would be to a brick wall kind of feeling, and often halfhearted, but at the same time I desperately missed God. When me and her broke up and I started dating a guy I thought that it would come back, but it didn't. It's taken a few years, and me realizing that just because the bible tells me its wrong doesn't mean god does and I shouldn't hate myself for it. It also took me learning to live with that, and knowing that I am the way I am because I was created that way, and knowing that none of it mattered and that it was only important between me and God. It's hard to explain the exact transition because it was really really slow, but that was it sorta.

From someone who's been there: It's not that God doesn't love you, its that you can't face yourself enough right now to let him.

I don't know if you're going to find that helpful, I just needed to say it because I always get upset when I notice religious faith suffering because of sexual identity.

so you don't consider that maybe it is one of his many tests? that you should resist the temptation? maybe he has faith that you can succeed? and in the afterlife you get to do whatever you want? isn't that the reason we suffer, for the big prize?

yeah, i was raised religious too. yes, i believed in my youth of the "tests" of faith and reward of the afterlife. i became very discouraged with these beliefs as i grew older because my life as a closeted, celibate gay man was just impossible and lead to severe depression and loneliness. in short, i did not have a life and did not look forward to more of this in the afterlife. i would never marry and spend eternity alone. and, the promise of a happy sex life in heaven seemed implausible because sex is of the body and when you're dead, well, you don't have a physical body, so how could one possible have - much less enjoy sex - in heaven? in fact, the concept of heaven was so nebulous - it was unclear what one would do upon arrival there. finally, i brushed the whole thing off as implausible. it really makes no sense. (and, i am sorry to say this because the thought / concept of heaven is really very nice.)

i don't really mean to diss your family nor your faith. faith is a nice thing to have if it works for you. perhaps you can find some middle ground that bridges both the gay and muslim worlds. (frankly, i've tried to do that with my religion with so-so results. but, you are not me and your case may be different.) here are some links for you:

http://www.alternet.org/story/12817



http://www.al-bab.com/arab/background/gay.htm

http://www.queerty.com/so-this-gay-m...lims-20110226/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...062301417.html

all the best to you!

more links:

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2012/01/26...ans-speak-out/

https://www.facebook.com/gayday.mag

I haven't looked at the links yet so keep that in mind when you read this.

To net506:

Disclaimer: I'm sorry if this got a bit preachy, long winded, unnecessarily sappy, or self-proclaiming/holyer-than-thou. That is very VERY far from my intentions (and goes completely against my moral compass). You are the ones who makes your decisions and I can not tell you what is right and wrong for you.

My veiw of the afterlife is a bit skewed in compairasine to most people. My religiouse standpoint is very hard to explain as it's not really any definable religion at the moment. I tend to explore and ask questions far to much to be able to comphrtably fit in with any "real" religion. So no, I don't think that you get to do whatever you want in the after life, and I very much do not beleve that we suffer here to make it better there.

I can't understand why He would create us a certin way, and then say you're not aloud to be. It just doesn't make sence to me. And I could be way off on this, and when I die I might jsut find out how wrong I am, but for what it's worth now I just have to trust that God isn't an a**hole and isn't spiteful and sadistic like that.

When I was going through it I definitly thought this was a test. Some days I didn't care, some day I cried so hard just wishing I could be stronger. Some days I just didn't know what to think, especialy after me and Abby broke up. Now I think it most definitly was a test, but I don't think it was a test to see if I could deny myself something. I don't really know what exactly it was actually about, and nor do I think I ever will, but as I know now that God still loves me, and guides me as surely as he did before any of that happened, I have to believe that I passed, and I have to believe that I would be getting much clearer signs now if I hadn't.

Summed up, I'm not going to tell you what to do, or what to believe, I am just sharing my experience. I certainly don't have any advice about how to handle your situation past what I have already given you. I just really hope and pray you don't lose your faith because of it, both because I know how hard it is to wake up and realize that you've lost your connection to the One you thought you could always turn to, and because I don't think God want's that either.

I hope you get through this, I really do. I will pray for you whenever my thoughts drift this way, that you might have strength and wisdom and that you will find the path that is right for you (whichever that is, I don't know). I will pray that your God will be kind enough to hold you when you cry and hurt, and to show you the doors He wants you to walk through when you're ready to stand.

May you be surrounded by Love and Light,
KLove

To unhappyguy:
I hope very much that you are happy now (contrary to your name ) and have found peace in something, whatever that might be. Hope you don't mind, but I'll be praying for you as well. Best of luck to you, and may you also be surrounded by Love and by Light.

Wow, what an interesting thread! Net506, you are receiving valuable and meaningful advice. I do not agree with much of it, but it is all interesting and people seem to be very civil in their disagreement. How refreshing! Also, as others have noted, you are so smart! Your writing is very very good for a non-native speaker of English. I admire your choice to devote yourself to your family. I imagine the religious culture you are from makes being gay a very sorrowful issue. And yet you seem so focused and determined to seek truth and make the best decisions you can make. I know some people are pulling for the side that says to get away from your family and cultural disapproval. But I also know that one day family will be everything to you and you may even grow old wishing you had grandchildren; family is very important. I can't really offer advice; these are just observations. Best of luck to you; you are a fine person.

I am sorry that you are your daughter are still estranged.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/article?a=904518&f=132

interesting opinion piece about rights. I guess the question is, who gets the right to decide what is right for whom?

From the Hadith: “We will challenge those beliefs and misconceptions one person at a time, and if we don’t change them we will reach to their hearts.”

Anti-gay propaganda from the UAE: http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2012/01/30...video-slammed/

It would be good if we lived in a society where people simply loved and accepted people for who they are. Why do we have to judge and kill people who are different from us? Why do so many people have hangups with gay people and put them in the same basket as criminals? Why can’t we accept everybody as long as they are not harming anyone else? Gay people are not harming anyone so get over it the ‘self righteous’! Accept it, God created everybody the way they are including gay people. ‘Tohelpafriend’ who left messages on the first page can’t accept that fact. Suggesting that being gay is immature as purported in her statement borrowed from Freud, in my view is narrow minded and may explain why her daughter wants no contact with her. The self-righteous religious people in my experience act more ‘un-christian’ than those that don’t practice any religion. Why, even Jesus glorified the gentile in that beautiful analogy of the Good Samaritan. In my Christian heritage if people would simply stop the judging, the hating and the ostracising of anyone who is different in this world from them, we would live a much more happier and fulfilling existence here on Earth!