i can not

ok so here it is! i am 25 and i have never had sex. i am from a conservative muslim family, sex before mariage had always been out of question for me. my reasons were clear : i don't wanna have sex for just sex. i don't want to do it because i don't want anyone treating any of my sisters that way.for me it is out of respect for the other person. and if i love somebody enough i can wait till we get married. cheesy i know. but i was young and i was convinced.
now it is a very different story.
i know that love is not always meant to last forever and sex is part of most relationships and like i wanna have sex, still not just for the sake of the act, i wanna have sex with someone i trust and feel close to.
but my real problem is, i am gay. at least i think so: i get aroused by boys no girls, and got physical with 3 or 4 guys, just touching sometimes kissing xd
but i can't face it. i can not accept it.
i was really close to my family, there had never been anything i wouldn't do for them. my family i my priority. and i know how they will react if i came out. and i know what most people would say "if they really love you they will accept you for who you are". i heard that more than enough already.
i know my family loves me. and i know that they dont have a choice. they are not made this way. thay can not be accepting, it is not who they are. and i try to accept it somehow.
i tried to pull away, or get away from them for about a year and didnt work, the guilt is unbearable. i know something like that will be devastating and there will be no more family for me. in a way, i think that i lost myself along the way, when i chose to live my life to make my family's life better/easier.
it s a choice i made long time ago and i cant go back on.

today my life is a mess, more like a hell frankly. i am frustrated, i cant go forward and feel trapped. i dont seem to find a way out and it's suffocating. i thought that choosing my family over myself is hard but choosing myself over my family is impossible.
i don't know what to do, i try to convince myself i can be straight (really sorry if this is offencing) but i simply know it s not a possibility.
so i will end up living alone forever.
but then again, living alone even at my age, it raises questions, especially if you are very good looking and charming and bla bla bla bla

i am stuck and i ll always be stuck. and i am angry.
i am not asking for a solution (i dont believe there is one for me ) i just wanted to share.
thank you all

It is very hard from outsider's point of view to be Muslim and gay. In my christian tradition there is now more openness if your gay. I hope one day you can make that decision to be YOU and not care what society or more to the point your family think, as I know france has liberal laws in relation to homosexuality. It's like having an arm and your told your not allowed to show it, the same with sexuality, it is a part of you. You can't denouce it as it is part of YOU. Maybe suggest seeing a counsellor who can help you be you by annoucing your gay to the world including your family!

Out of both parents, which do you think is more open? Could you bounce around the idea to that parent and get their advice on how the other may react? What happens if you talk about a gay "friend"? Do they shudder at the idea of a gay person or do they talk about it like there is no issue? There are a few ways to kind of gauge their true feelings. Just because it is tradition, doesn't mean both of your parents feel that way. Who knows? They could be very open and only hold that facade because of tradition?

You will be surprised. They are your parents and they really do love you. I hope you can come to grips with your sexuality. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it or you!!

Thanks for sharing. To be blunt, but not disrespectful of your feelings, how do you know for sure you would not prefer sexuality expressed with a woman if you haven't had it? It's a complex subject and I've researched it alot after my daughter told me she was gay, now in a civil union with a woman and won't speak to me because my conscience won't allow my condoning it. There is no gene or predisposition to homosexuality, it is a free will choice, IMHO. If you are a devout Muslim, what does your God say? No good has come out of my daughter's choice, only pain, suffering and social disorder in the family. No daughter to give in marriage, no wedding to plan, no grandchildren; I've been robbed. I hope you find peace in your decision and discussion with your family. Peace,

hey, thanks everyone for your comments.
saluki, gay is not even a possible subject in my whole town, so for my family there is no such thing. and i know this because i used to think the same, believe when i say that i didin't know what "gay" means untill i was 17. we use the word as an insult in general, but never to mean that someone is actually gay, because till that age, we didn't think it existed xd awesome huh? fyi i am not from france per se, i have been living here for sometime now (i mentionned that i tried to get away from my family! i left the whole country hioping i can manage to leave my life -and i mean my family- behind and live just for myself! as you suspect that didn't work out the way i hoped).
well, long story short, gay is not a subject that can be mentionned i sincerely believe they don't suspect it might be real
but as i mentionneed, i am not really looking for a solution, i know i am stuck in a cage i built myself and i ll just have to live with the consequences!part of being an adult i think.
but really, thanks for your feelings, appreciate it you too purple heart!

as for you tohelpafriend, i hear you. i can't even imagine what it felt to be in your position. i am maybe imaginning it, but i can't help feeling pain in your words. it's obvious you love your daughter, no one can ever question that. parents are supposed to love their children unconditionnally, i truly believe that it should be that way. i can't see how any person on this world can be happy, knowing that the people that gave them life and spent years of their lifes taking care of them, are turning their backs on them or not loving them anymore.
i have been there for sometime, just the thought of losing my parents made my life a living hell. maybe my feelings for my family are too strong, but still parents are supposed to be there for us, every step of the way, guiding us and loving.
to go back to the subject, i made my choice a long time ago, i can not be gay if i will lose my family, there is no doubt on my mind about those priorities. now, i am not stupid, i know i am sacrificing my life, and my happiness, and knowing my family i know they will never forgive themselves if they doubted for a second that i am doing this. but if they found out, they can't choose to get along with it anyway and they will still be devastated. so yeah i d rather bear the burden myself, better me than the whole family
i hope i am not out of line here, but i have to say it: she is your daughter, whatever choices she makes or whoever she is, and she will always be. you ll hear the same lines from everyone but that doesn't make them less true. your words made it sound like your daughter is not happy either, i doubt that you want that. i can only suggest that you try to just be accepting, no one can make you like the situation and you don't have to, it's just who you are. but you can make an effort to be supportive. i know that parents never cease to see their children as "kids" but we grow up and we learn to make bad and good decisions. we might need advice but we don't take ultimatums very well. no one does. so for the sake of both of you? maybe you can try?
anyways i really hope i am not offending anyone, as i mentionned english is not my first language and sometimes i can be misunderstood.

again thank you all, really for sharing, for your suggestions and the sincerity of your feelings
take care

net506,

I'm a Muslim too and I have experienced various sexual difficulties. I have high sex drive for one thing and as you have mentioned in your post sex before marriage is not allowed. Also, I sometimes feel like I might be bisexual. Attractive women (I'm a girl) make me feel uncomfortable sometimes if you know what I mean.

You said you're not after a solution because there isn't one. You may be right. I don't think there's a solution that would be devoid of pain and suffering. Only one thing makes me capable of coping: my faith. I don't know how religious you are. I'm fairly religious myself and for me there is immense pleasure in doing something for the sole intention of pleasing God. So that's what I do. I fight temptations and try to avoid situations that would turn me on.

Anyway, it all comes down to yourself and your priorities. Feel free to pm me if you need to talk

Thank you for your kind, nonjudgmental comments. There are two sides to every story. I didn't turn my back on my daughter; she refused communication or explanation of who she was and why she felt that way.
Thus I missed out on almost 9 years of all the happy times we used to spend together, and it left a hole in my heart. I agree we do not live to please our parents; I made alot of mistakes in my 20s which hurt my parents but I was out of control and sick; never intentionally wanted to hurt them. I do love her unconditionally, but she has separated herself from me. I read a study of out of 176 lesbians, the average age of death was 44! There are consequences to actions; that is my concern for her, or getting hurt in the future if the relationship falls through. I have great compassion for gay people; I am not a hater.
Freud said homosexuality was an adolescent phase of sexuality and I tend to agree with him. Peace to you on your journey.

*sigh*

hi, net506. i am gay. like you, i was raised in a religious family (Catholic). i attended religious school for 12 years. i am not out to many members of the family though i think everyone has figured it out by now. believe me, they know you are gay. they just don't want to talk about it.

like you, i also tried leaving the family but it did not work. i have my own place and keep in touch with the family but have my privacy. i do have some gay friends but i don't sleep around a lot. i am more interested in love and friendship than relief inducing quickie sex. while this may sound morbid, your parents will not live forever and hopefully your siblings will be more understanding. so, at some point in your life, you may be able to reclaim yourself and find love.

can i ask what your nation of origin is? while muslim nations are generally intolerant of homosexuality, some are less so. personally, i have found muslims to be nice people. however, i do find their intolerance of homosexuals to be a flaw. there are plenty of sexually active gay muslims here. once, i met a young lesbian muslim who, like you, was very close to her family and knew they would not accept her lesbianism. yet, it's what she wanted more than anything else in the world. let's hope for change even though, if it comes at all, will be slow in arriving.

there are some risks even though you have chosen a very conservative course for your life. living a life without love is difficult. there may be periods of depression and loneliness. there may be pressure to marry and to start a family - your pretend to be straight life can even cause serious problems. your description admits that you suffer from sleeping problems perhaps associated with anxiety and/or stress by living your closet life. frankly, this insommnia is cause for concern and should not be taken lightly.

you are a very intelligent person. i trust your current decision is the right one for the moment. however, if the sleeplessness or anxiety / stress persists, or if deep depression or lonliness set in, i hope you will look for a way to help yourself. please feel welcome to PM me anytime to chat.

finally, i would like to add, based on a statement from another poster, that most of Freud's theories on sexuality have been proven wrong. from a practical perspective, sexuality is most similar to handedness. righthanders (the majority) are similar to heterosexuals. there is no rational reason for left-handers but, like that other minority (homosexuals), they exist and are perfectly normal. and then there are those pesky ambidextrous people who, whether they like it or not, are like bisexuals. (even the term switchhitter goes both ways!) no one chooses to be right- or left-handed or ambidextrous. they just are. sexuality is exactly like that too. both are perfectly normal human traits. genetics will eventually win out. there's no need to wait for that to happen - believe in it now.

all the best to you!

tohelpafriend - I can't help but feel extremely offended by your words. But I guess they are your 'opinions'. I guess I just don't see how placing people beneath you constitutes an opinion. People are gay - not murders. Murder is immoral. There are examples of homosexuality across all animals - insects to humans. Didn't you hear about the penguins that were recently separated because they were showing gay tendencies? So by the logic, every animal on the face of the earth has the ability to make conscious decisions. And to continue with that, you would also be immoral for eating meat or anything that came from an animal. So, if you follow through on your wording...you should be a vegan. Are you?

If you see this as going against god....didn't god create everyone and everything? And if god is infallible, then everything he does is perfect. Including the creation of all sexual forms.

P.S. Freud was wrong about everything. And I mean EVERY-THING.

Sorry....got off topic. Bottom line....you are you. You are not your parents, family or friends. You need to decide what is more important - your happiness or theirs. I hope you chose your own! And you know that we are all (well almost all apparently) are here for support. Not to shut you down. You are not alone! Are you in college? If you are, there should be counselors and possibly support groups for people in your exact situation!!

again am really touched by all your feelings, and i mean ALL OF YOU. I know some of you feel offended,and you have the right to be,it's the way you feel and no one can deny you what's rightfully yours.
but, i think that we all have the right to say what we think, and not being judged. i really mean it, everyone is unique, had his experiences in life and a different learning curve. no one is right and no one is wrong, we are who we are, we just try to be compassionnate and, i only speak for myself, the words "compassion" and "no hater" are more than enough for me to respect someone who came through an obviously painful experience.
I guess i am just trying to say, no need to be angry, we are allowed to say what we think, and read others honest point of view and maybe try harder next time

now back to me unhappyguy & saluki, thanks for your advice. back when i made my decision i was aware of the consequences, i still am. i chose my family's happiness first, because in a way it does really make me happy. you said that they probably know, highly doubtfull but not impossible. i dated a lot of girls -i am not bragging believe me- and tried hard to maybe "adapt" and god i know that sounds offensive, but what can i say i was dumb
anyways, since my decision was made, there is no doubt on mind that i will not get married to a woman. i am not planning on dragging an innocent person down with me, so no worries there pal
i understand your concerns about my mental/physical health, and i appreciate it. it does concern me, but i found someways to cope with stress (doesn't work all the time, but still better than nothing). i pass a fair amount of time between painting and writing, and it is a safe way to deal. and for sometime i got a really close friend, that i shared almost everything with, (didn't come out), and it was good, while it lasted. after 10 years of investing a very important friendship, i nearly came out, just started talking bout a gay friend, to him and he discarded me like a piece of garbage without a flinch, just because i said i didn't care wether prople are straight or gay. and he seemed pretty open-minded to me before that. it was not helpful, it was a shock at first but i came to terms with it. i don't need that kind of people in my life. i don't believe in hate, i don't resent anyone, nor haters, nor murderers, nor judgemental people. i don't believe hate can solve anything, nothing good ever comes out from negative emotions. i am guessing i sound pretty dumb right now

ah yes, i d rather not say from which country i am, but i can tell you that i am from a very mall town, and that says about enough. yes i am at college. i am ttrying to avoid any kind of "coming out" to the world, so no support groups. i think it will only make it harder for me to be who i am today.
and to be honest, the morbid thought you mentionned, did cross my mind, more than once, but it doesn't make me feel any better.
i love my family, and i know they are really proud of who am (at least the parts they know about) and love me truly. and my only regret is that maybe one day will come they will die and they without knowing about the other parts as well.

again thanks all of you, and i will hold you to your promises : i will PM if i wanna chat take care everyone, and again, hope didn't offence anyone, never know x)

**warning - this post is very blunt**

i am sorry to burst your bubble that quietly living a celibate life will save you and your family from the dread of your homosexuality, but it won't. people are not stupid. they will figure it out especially if you spend your days painting and have no interest in women or marriage. straight people will not want to bother with you. you will have no life to tell others about when they talk about their children and spouses. in short, you will still suffer terrible loneliness, discrimination and cruelty. people will be mean to you because they perceive you as gay, and you will not fit in anywhere. you will have few, if any, straight friends stick by you and, since you're closeted, you will have few, if any, gay friends. you will have trouble getting and holding jobs because of discrimination. and you may get very depressed. further, you will be horny as heck with no outlet except for masturbation which, quite frankly, will not satisfy your emotional or physical needs.

straight and religious people do not differentiate between celibate gays and sexually active gays - they treat all gays the same - badly. you will not be an exception. and, it sounds like you have few if any friends already. sorry to be so blunt but it's better to hear it from me than find out the sad truth yourself. the path you are choosing is much harder and more lonely than you imagine. you will grow older and your sexual needs will not diminish much. and, you will be praying at your mosque with a lot of handome men you will want to look at for enjoyment but can't out of shame and fear. you may pray to god for help but there will be none. as you get older, there will be more and more handsome young men you will find attractive that will stir your sexual needs, for which you have no outlet.

frankly, though this also is not recommended, a marriage of convenience is the best way to hide. better yet, if you want to be a painter, be like Gaughin and move to Tahiti to escape ignorant and intolerate religions completely.

I think this is unduly pessimistic.

Firstly, a homophobic society is generally in denial. They'd prefer to believe homosexuality doesn't exist. They generally don't make trouble for people who aren't making trouble for them (as they see it).

Secondly, every culture gives a certain licence to writers, painters and actors. Such people are allowed to be different, so long as they are not too provocative.

I won't advise you one way or another. But if you cultivate the image of an eccentric artist and avoid sex altogether, you should live a safe and uneventful life. If you don't have a lover, neither scandal nor the law has anything to work with, and the rumours will die away.

I'm sorry you're in this very tough predicament Net506. I understand the majority of Muslim families would be against your choice - it might even be dangerous for some. I don't agree with the opinion you have a orchoice, any more than I do to be heterosexual. Its very sad you have to make a choice between family or your sexual orientation.

There's a Prince in Pakistan and he bravely came out and was even alienated by his mother but she didn't kick him out. He was at one end of the huge house and she at the other. I hope you'll find peace where you can be happy and live your own life.

That's not even true in the "relatively enlightened" US. I think this is dangerous advice.

CantExplain, it sounds like you have never been threatened just for being you, walking down the street, minding your own business, in broad daylight.

Check this site out: http://salaamcanada.com/ - I see you're from France, but I'm sure some of the info on the site could help you.

Wow that's so cool hanners. Leave it to Canada for being a leader in protecting gay rights. We've had legal unions for so long here and it wasn't a big deal. Don't mind me bragging a bit...he, hee

Oops I just realized you're Canadian too

I have to respectfully but strongly disagree with this advice. The Truth: A homophobic society is prejudiced and will discriminate. People will be out to get you for being homosexual. A perfect example was the Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy which turned out to be a witch hunt even though it was intended to make military duty safe for gays and lesbians.

Every culture does NOT give a certain license to writers, painters and actors. Witness those who have been censored or jailed in order to keep their writings suppressed.

Gee, what a nice life. Pretend to be eccentric so you can lead a loveless and lonely celibate, but supposedly safe(!), life - that's right, pretend to be Salvador Dali (who was also married but never touched his wife who, btw, slept around to meet her love needs). Like I said, homophobic people do not discriminate between celibate or sexually active homosexuals. Rather, they see all homosexuals as fodder for abuse, discrimination and alienation.

Please do not choose to live a lonely and loveless life. Move away to a place where you can safely lead a full life. A place where how you live is your own business and no one else's. So far away that your family and others in your community will not know what is going on. Your family will understand.

No, I don't have any personal experience of persecution.

Perhaps I misread the context. But I understood that the original poster was suggesting he turn his back on his sexuality and outwardly conform to his family's wishes.

A hard road, but I don't see why it should be impossible.

Do you believe that someone who feels gay has a moral obligation to live gay?

I sincerely want to know your personal opinion.

I hope I don't have an opinion on other people's moral obligations - I have a hard enough time keeping track of my own. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. But I'm definitely judgmental in a lot of other ways!

This site is intended to promote mental and emotional health. In keeping with this site's intentions, we all have an obligation to support and guide each other in ways that promote the mental health of participants.

Being gay is NOT a feeling. It is a sexual orientation. While it may seem noble to sacrifice one's personal life for family / religious peace, this is, in fact, dangerously dysfunctional. It is not easy to live a celibate life. It can cause depression - serious depression. It is a lonely and incomplete life. And, it does not guarantee one a life free from discrimination.

No one is gay by choice. It is an orientation that is no different than being left- or right-handed. Do you know how difficult it is to hide your true self from family and society at large 24/7 for your entire life? It is much, much better to have real love in your life, not the love of a family / society / religion that really does not want to know the real you. It is not mentally / emotionally healthy to hide behind masks for your entire life.

Net506 is a very intelligent young man. He appears to be fluent in 3 languages. He can move far away and have a real life with real friends and find real love, rather than familial love that forces him to lead a closeted life. Yes, we all want the support of our families but they cannot support him unless they know who he truly is. And, for religious purposes, it appears they will not support him. I have made similar compromises with my life and, you know what, it has not worked in the least. If you are perceived to be gay then you are treated as gay - celibacy has nothing to do with it. No one wears a sign around their neck that says "celibate." That's why it is so important to challenge this naive thinking. There is no guarantee it will work and there is a lot of risk both to his mental and physical well-being.

There are choices. And, his family (especially siblings) may come around eventually. It's best to move away and have a life. It sounds more difficult than it is but, it's worth it. I firmly believe that the moral thing to do in this instance is encourage Net506 to live a life that is true to his nature rather than living a closeted life to please others.

hey all! thanks for your comments, really appreciate your thoughtfull words.
unhappyguy i am surprised, really surprised, in a good way. you seem to get the picture very well. i didn't have the guts to reply sooner, denial i guess with a short depression phase xd
it's not like i discovered i am gay yesterday, it has been more than 10 years. i went through a hell lot of emotions. i thought more than once of coming out and deal with anything life would through at me, because i thought i didn't have anything to lose, i was living a nightmare 24/7. the world is big big lonely place for me. and it kept getting worse by the second. i know depression, i know what it leads to, i know the fear of one's own thoughts. i know i am in a big mess and my life is only going to be sadder and lonelier.
do i like that? hell NO.
your advice is valid, it's the healthiest solution in my opinion. but i am not a standard case. i live my life for my family, i have always been like this. i grew up believing that my family is my first priority. and besides, they depend on me, i am the one holding the fmily together, it has always been my responsiblity to keep everyone together.
as long as i can remember, i always felt like it's my mission in life, bring joy to these miserable, sad and tortured people. they see me as their only hope, and i grew up to embrace it. it's a weight i cary not happily but i want to.
so, please don't judge me, i am not naive, and i am not stupid, and god i know i am trashing my life, heading for a very miserable future, but as long as i can see some joy for my family i think i can keep going.
i know how stupid it must sound. i know i am miserable -that's why i am here x)- and i know that you are only thinking of my happiness, and i am really grateful. you really seem to understand how dark it can be.
thanks again.

for the record when i saw your "blunt message" i did a lot of thinking, and you know you didn't say something i didn't know already, but still seeing the words outta my head, wriiten down by someone else, made it a lot more real than i care to admit. so i came out to the closest friend i have. it went alright, well, i knew the outcome before i said anything, that's why i did it. anyways, it helped a bit, i don't regret it but i don't think i am going for that path, won't work.
again, my best regards

PS: i am not an artist, i just paint and write when i feel ****** and don't share, noone ever sees what i am doing. in real life i am an engineering student, no tormented artist i am afraid

If I may add a few words of my own experience? I am an American-born daughter of Italian immigrants, many aunts, uncles, cousins, as well as a larger community. A veritable little Italy. These people decided I was gay before I ever knew what it was. When I wanted to take auto shop in high school (along with maintaining all A's in college prep classes) my mother objected violently, saying it was no place for a girl. I said, the head baton twirler took it. She replied, and I remember her response because it was so strange, "she is probably one of them", which she wouldn't explain, she was just angry. So all these years I could have been changing the oil in my car myself, but for my mother's presumptions.

I would posit that your family is not miserable NOW - they are joyous every day that they have kept YOU under their control and miserable. They have known this about you from very early on, and figured out what it took to control your behavior. Just as my parents did with me. I am sure now they laughed about it behind my back.

My mother told me, maybe 15, 20 years ago, that I must not have REALLY wanted the things she opposed, because if I did, nothing would have stopped me from getting them. I said, "I thought you were going to kill me! I thought..." What did I think? She responded, "I had to leave my mother and make my life, and you were supposed to leave your mother and make YOUR life." But she didn't say that when I was 20, she said it when I was more than 40, when all my chances were gone.

I guess I am more concerned about your family's tight hold on you and what they THINK they are preventing - it might or might not be a match to what you think? I would explore that. Be the hero of your own life, instead of presuming yourself the hero of theirs? It might not be true?

Hi, Net506 -

Thanks for your post. Please let us know what happened when you came out to your closest friend. What happened isn't clear. Were they accepting or not?

You may not believe you are a standard case but, frankly, YOU ARE! Yeah, I was raised by a family that told me that family is more important than friends. I too believed that they needed me. I too believed that I kept everyone in the family together after my dad died young and my closest brother died of cancer at 24. Turns out, the family is now a lot happier than me!! Did all my caring and self-closeting turn out for me? No.

In retrospect, it appears that the "family values" that I was raised with were really manipulation for them to own my life. Please don't fall for this trap. Please take responsibility for your life - no one else will. They sense you are needy and will take advantage of it. Get your college degree and get a job and get away. You can still help them out and have your own life. It's a shame they will miss out on your life. But, that's their game and their choice. Don't be manipulated into their trap.

I firmly believe that you can have it both ways - be out and have a happy family. Frankly, the family is not truly happy if you are unhappy. You know? If the family truly needs you then they will not care about your sexuality. You will be much better able to care for them if you are happy and have the support of your own friends rather than being a mere slave of the family. Yes, I said "slave." That's what you will be if you choose not to have a life and dedicate it to others who do not want to accept responsibility for their own lives and who, quite frankly, do not seem to really care about you.

In Europe, you don't have to go too far to live an open gay life. You can go to Scandinavia. Wonderful nations. I often dream of moving there but doubt I could get in permanently. The same goes for Canada. Really nice people there. Do you know how gay Montreal is? Very. And, you are fluent in French. Berlin is such a free city too. (Well, a little over the top for me but free nonetheless!)

Please, do not complement me and give more excuses. You are worth it. Growing up means being our own person. Growing up means leaving mom and dad and heading out on your own. It's a lot scarier when you are gay and feeling alone. You do not have the family's support to be yourself and that is very sad. But, you are smart enough to get a degree in engineering and speak/write at least 3 languages! And, you are smart enough to figure out a way to have a life and keep your family intact too. After all, you are not living in the Middle East anymore - you are in Europe. So, be smart and embrace both cultures. If your family truly needs you then they will take your help regardless. Do not be afraid to call their bluff. And, please, do not be a slave to self-centered, close-minded teachings and traditions. Be yourself. It will work. I have confidence that you can do it. Please have confidence in yourself. Do not be alone. Please choose to have a life with friends and a partner who truly loves you. You are so deserving and needing of love. Do not choose slavery.