[lynn P.]

Originally Posted by Teen Idle

Sorry it took me so long to get to you, Lynn. Apologies.

Thank you for your questions, you asked them just fine.

Biological gender is not a term, though biological sex is! Which is what I am sure you meant (the lingo gets lost on me most of the time so really it's okay)

I am really not comfortable sharing my biological sex. That is a question many non-binary/trans* people do not feel comfortable answering as we feel it tends to lead to confusion for others, or dysphoria. That being said, some are perfectly okay with answering! Just Okay it with them first, and all should be fine. I really can only speak for me here. So you were right; physically I am a "woman" or "man" but I do not identify with the Male or Female GENDER. You got it.

Sweden is awesome for that. Good for them! Thank you for sharing that!

So you were right; physically I am a "woman" or "man" but I do not identify with the Male or Female GENDER. You got it.

I want to see if I'm understanding you correctly - are you saying you were born with both male/female genitalia as the medical term hermaphrodite? Yes I understand how some don't identify with a specific gender. If a person has female genitalia but doesn't identify as female - what's that called? The same of a person has male genitalia - what's the correct term? Are they both gender-queer. Is a lesbian who dresses masculine gender-queer.

I wonder why those who consider themselves gender -queer struggle with disclosing what biological genitalia they have? I'm wondering if they meet a potential partner and that partner might assume they're one sex....when do they disclose their biological identity? I do understand how a person may feel one gender that doesn't coincide with their physical body. I think I made an error about Sweden - think its Germany who will have the new rule for a third alternative on birth certificates and the option to fore-go surgery ...to allow the baby to make their own decision whether to leave as is or alter one or the other. This is the better alternative I think. Thanks for the reply.

Overwhelming, but educational ...

Again, I thank you for this thread as it is helping me to understand a lot about myself and my struggles with my own sexual/gender identity.

I also like the flag very much as purple and green are my two favorite colors! ...

You are providing an invaluable service to the rest of us who are truly interested in knowing that it isn't simply as easy as being straight, gay, or bisexual.

What an incredibly amazing person you are Teen Idle ... !!!

Keep up the good work!

[Grey Matter]

Originally Posted by lynn P.

I want to see if I'm understanding you correctly - are you saying you were born with both male/female genitalia as the medical term hermaphrodite? Yes I understand how some don't identify with a specific gender. If a person has female genitalia but doesn't identify as female - what's that called? The same of a person has male genitalia - what's the correct term? Are they both gender-queer. Is a lesbian who dresses masculine gender-queer.

I wonder why those who consider themselves gender -queer struggle with disclosing what biological genitalia they have? I'm wondering if they meet a potential partner and that partner might assume they're one sex....when do they disclose their biological identity? I do understand how a person may feel one gender that doesn't coincide with their physical body. I think I made an error about Sweden - think its Germany who will have the new rule for a third alternative on birth certificates and the option to fore-go surgery ...to allow the baby to make their own decision whether to leave as is or alter one or the other. This is the better alternative I think. Thanks for the reply.

Nope. I was born with one sexual reproductive system. Some non-binary people are born with both, same as some trans* people. I can only speak for me and say I am not a hermaphrodite. Not all non-binary/trans* folk are born with both.

Me for example. I was born with ONE set of reproductive organs (either male or female, I am not comfortable disclosing) but my gender (or lack there of) does not match with my gender. Hence me being genderqueer/non-binary. It helps to view the sex organs as irrelevant. A trans*woman can have a penis and is STILL a woman. A trans*man can have a vagina and is STILL a man. Does that make more sense?

I think it's an intimate question. With past sexual partners, they knew how I identified and did not connect my organs to my gender, etc. I don't feel comfortable disclosing it because it makes me feel uneasy and uncomfortable because then people (usually) view me as male or female.

[Grey Matter]

Originally Posted by Lycanthrope

I just want to say also that I don't like the idea of you having an issue with people assuming others gender. I don't see a problem with that. We assume a lot about someone by appearance, not just gender alone.

Anyway that's all I've got to say on it.

That is because you're cis (as I remember you stating). You don't have to worry anyone getting your gender wrong in your family, your friends, do you? Assuming is for fools. To teach yourself to be open to critical thinking free of assumptions but based on logic and fact, you'll find this is a rather easy habit to break. I honestly don't care if you don't like that I dislike people assuming mine and others gender. You're not non-binary/trans*. You don't have to face what others and myself have to face everyday, do you? If someone calls you "sir" instead of "miss" or the other way around, does it cause you to panic? Or become dysphoric?

I think what you're struggling with is the idea that you have a certain amount of privilege over non-binary/*trans folk. Accept it, because it isn't going away. Someone in my position saying "cis-gender people HAVE privilege" is just as fine and good as me saying "someone who doesn't have a mental illness HAS privilege over me".

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by Inedible

Would you even notice if it were 98% or 97% straight?

Speaking for myself, I think I would. I agree with Lycan - not that I'd be somehow frightened by discovering a lesbian propensity in myself, no - I would actually welcome it wholeheartedly - but it is just not there.

And I know a few guys who are, like me, 100% straight.

And in all of these cases - mine and of a few guys I know - the orientation started very early on, in preschool. I have read a lot about people who are trying to determine their orientation in adolescence and beyond, but I cannot relate to it at all.

[hamster-bamster]

OK, so:

- gender can be socially constructed
- gender can be psychological (?)
- gender can be grammatical

And,

- sex is biological.

About right?

[Grey Matter]

Yes. Exactly right! But rather "is" than "can".

[hamster-bamster]

Here are some observations:

In French, she=elle, he=il, and they does not have a direct equivalent. "they" is genderless in English. In French, it is:

- ils, if at least one person in a group is a male
- elles, if everybody in a group is a female.

In other words, there is more importance to being a male - if you are referring to a group of people, it is enough for only one person in that group of people to be a male to warrant the "male they". So the male gender sort of "trumps".

I think that the Urban Dictionary says it best:

1.

Genderqueer is most commonly used to describe a person who feels that his/her gender identity does not fit into the socially constructed "norms" associated with his/her biological sex.
Genderqueer is an identity that falls anywhere between man/boy/male and woman/girl/female on the spectrum of gender identities.
Mary doesn't feel that s/he fits the mold of any one particular gender; therefore, Mary identifies as genderqueer.
2.

Any position in a wide variety of gender identities, spanning the spectrum between male and female. A person who is Genderqueer is not transgendered, though the option is open to transition. Being genderqueer has no bearing on sexual identity or orientation.
Eli might have a woman's body, but ze doesn't feel like a woman or a man. Eli is genderqueer.
3.

"Genderqueer" describes a category of gender that is neither traditionally "female" or "male." Many different, nontraditional gender identities fall under the umbrella term "genderqueer." Genderqueer individuals may identify as having a gender somewhere between female and male or, more commonly, out of the gender binary all together.

Unless told otherwise, polite pronouns for genderqueer individuals are the singular they and ze/hir pronouns. Most genderqueer individuals take offense being referred to as "it."
"Is Dakota a girl or a boy?" "They're genderqueer!"

"So, because she's genderqueer, it means she's a slut and sleeps with everyone, right?" "Haha, no. Genderqueer just means their gender identity. It has nothing to do with their sexual orientation."

"I'm a dude, so I don't really want to take home ec." "Dude, I'm genderqueer! I'll take whatever the hell I want and not worry about it."

4.

The radical notion that a gender identity can be articulated imprecisely enough that it discourages people from trying to police it.
"Gender as in gender. Queer as in to disrupt. Genderqueer as in disrupting the ability to police this gender."

5.

An identification of gender in which people present their gender in a way that does not represent either man or woman, and which allows for open ended interpretations of one's identity. A classification within the transgendered (not to be confused with transsexual) umbrella
n: "that genderqueer is scaring the nuclear family next door!"

a: "I can't pick what gender I want to be today! I guess I'll be genderqueer"

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by Lycanthrope

I'm not making a joke. On your other thread right, you said you hate people making assumptions about somebody elses gender. The thing is, let's say I'm in the store and there's some bald guy with a moustache, with make up on in a woman's dress. Now I know that's an extreme example, but what do I assume that person's gender is? Do I say hi sir or miss? But if I don't know the persons gender chances are I could cause offence.

Remember you make it seem like I'm a close friend to the person. The vast majority of the time you come into people once in your life and not see them again.

I was in the bank the other day waiting to talk to a manager with whom I had an appointment. I was wearing a cap, shorts and a tshirt, sandals and carried a backpack. I have short hair. A teller called across the lobby, "sir, oh sir! Are you waiting for someone?" Teen idle is right, "excuse me" would have been a better choice. The teller seemed embarrassed and I still dont know what to make of it. It happens from time to time, but it's not like I'm trying for a particular look either way. Most of my clothes are women's - the occasional shoe or sock or sweatshirt maybe not. Good thread.

[IndieVisible]

Originally Posted by Lycanthrope

I'm a 100% straight. This myth that everybody is a little bisexual is just that, a myth.

Really? You never get emotional? If you can honestly say with a str8 face you NEVER get emotional, then perhaps you are 100% str8 and quite a rarity indeed! I would then envy you!

Originally Posted by IndieVisible

Really? You never get emotional? If you can honestly say with a str8 face you NEVER get emotional, then perhaps you are 100% str8 and quite a rarity indeed! I would then envy you!

Too put it bluntly, my emotional responses are irrelevant to whether or not I want to pound some mans *** cheeks or vice versa. I know many gay men aren't into **** sex either but the point still stands.

According to you, at least how it seems if I'm reading correctly, to be 100% heterosexual you have to have no emotion. This is a bizarre.

But I don't want to derail this thread anymore. Loads of posts were deleted earlier so I'll have to leave it at that.

[Grey Matter]

I honestly have no idea why sexuality is being discussed in this thread when it has nothing to do with gender. Thank you Lycanthrope for not wanting to derail the thread.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by hankster

I was in the bank the other day waiting to talk to a manager with whom I had an appointment. I was wearing a cap, shorts and a tshirt, sandals and carried a backpack. I have short hair. A teller called across the lobby, "sir, oh sir! Are you waiting for someone?" Teen idle is right, "excuse me" would have been a better choice. The teller seemed embarrassed and I still dont know what to make of it. It happens from time to time, but it's not like I'm trying for a particular look either way. Most of my clothes are women's - the occasional shoe or sock or sweatshirt maybe not. Good thread.

I think it might be Mid-West. In California people do not use Sir/Ma'am much. I cannot see this incident happening where I live. Back when I lived in Texas, yeah... Sir/Ma'am all the time.

[Inedible]

Originally Posted by Teen Idle

I honestly have no idea why sexuality is being discussed in this thread when it has nothing to do with gender. Thank you Lycanthrope for not wanting to derail the thread.

Isn't gender like the polarity of a magnet, but with people? Isn't it about what a person is drawn toward?

[growlycat]

I wasn't debating anything either. I wasn't making a case for more than two biological sexes. Gender identity can be separate from your biological sex as it can be from your orientation.
It is simplistic to say the spectrum is from "straight to gay"- at least I believe there are many more nuances than that.

[Grey Matter]

Originally Posted by Inedible

Isn't gender like the polarity of a magnet, but with people? Isn't it about what a person is drawn toward?

Gender does not equate sexuality. Like biological sex and gender, they are two different things.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by hamster-bamster

I think it might be Mid-West. In California people do not use Sir/Ma'am much. I cannot see this incident happening where I live. Back when I lived in Texas, yeah... Sir/Ma'am all the time.

Thanks I might have to start an initiative!

[Samanthagreene]

Would asexual people fall on this 'scale?' I just recently met someone like that and I'm still not sure I know what it means.

[ocdwifeofsociopath]

this still isn't answering my question. Why not just dress as your sex? isn't it easier that way? If you went to therapy, would they help you to accept your gender and express it in your outfit, or help you to accept the ignorance and lack of understanding of the majority of people?

[Grey Matter]

Asexuality is debated. I am asexual and I honestly have no idea where it falls /:

OCD, I do not dress my sex because my gender does not match my birth sex. I do not need therapy for it because I have accepted my gender identity and express it in a way I feel comfortable doing.

Originally Posted by ocdwifeofsociopath

this still isn't answering my question. Why not just dress as your sex? isn't it easier that way? If you went to therapy, would they help you to accept your gender and express it in your outfit, or help you to accept the ignorance and lack of understanding of the majority of people?

It's not as simple as someone dressing as their sex. Imagine, as a woman you woke up one morning and your chest was flat, you had a penis and scrotum, and chest and facial hair. I'm sure you'd be horrified. Well they've have to deal with a problem like this since pretty much all their life, even when they were children.

For whatever reason, their brain is in the wrong body. There's been studies to show this is the case.

[Grey Matter]

If I dressed as my assigned sex, otherwise know as ASAB (assigned sex at birth) I would be in a constant state of anxiety. More so than I already am. I dress in a way that makes me comfortable, and in a way that lets me settle and feel okay. Which I do now. My brain just doesn't match what I was given, in either way. If I dressed as people expected, I wouldn't be doing myself any favors. It would be for other cis-folk.

As for therapy; I really don't need it. I have spoken to it about my therapist and out of all the things wrong with me, this is a non-issue with how I see myself. Of course I have my bad days, but that is normal. Otherwise I barely give it a second thought. I am just me.

[IndieVisible]

Is gender identity disorder or Gender dysphoria still listed as a mental illness and is this considered part of that?

[Grey Matter]

It is by some people. I know some people go into therapy for it, and I am not quite sure the in and outs of that because I do not see it as a disorder. But dysphoria does count for something.