i have no idea where to put this topic...

anyways, hi everybody!! i think ill be on here for a few hours tonight..haha
well, first of all...my names debbie and i am a lesbian. i am 17 years old going to be 18 this november. although, i have been struggling with something really akward and confusing recently. wanting to becoem somewhat of a man. i know you guys sometimes see girls with the long hair dressin like a guy which i tried...but i dont feel complete in a way. i was thinking about getting hormone shots when i turn 18 so i can grow some facial hair, maybe get a 'shape up'. i was also thinking about shaving my head. having my voice a little more deeper or manly??? i dont know though. i have always acted like a boy, usually dressed like a boy when i was a child. i still sometimes wear men's clothing but my mother is so against it. but to be honest, i kinda just want to feel comfortable with myself.
i dont know if its because self esteem or my other mental health issues..who knows. but im really confused right now and need some feedback if i should, if i shouldnt or what i should do. its just been making me depressed alot lately and i have no clue what to come across too. any feedback would be good.

thanks
deb=]

((((( Deb ))))))

I don't know anything about this topic at all but this is the place where you'd post about it, so welcome. I've seen shows on gender reassignment and I know that it is required that there be previous counceling sessions before any procedures or treatment are done, to be sure it is what the individual wants.

Just like with any other big decision in life, I'd have to get all the facts before making a decision. The information is definitely out there though, so I'd suggest looking further into it, talking a sex reassignment councelor and see where that takes you. At least thats how I've seen it done on tv.....I'm sorry if that sounds insenstive, seeing it on tv I mean. Good luck to you!!

~Rayna

hey. i think... that there are different things that people do. some people have hormone treatment (for example) and don't plan on getting sex reassignment, while others want to have a sex reassignment as well.

it sounds to me... like it would be terrific if you could see a therapist who specialises in (or at least who has some experience in) these issues. that way they would be able to talk to you about some of the side-effects of hormone treatment... and that way they would also be able to talk to you about how things are going more generally. to try and figure out how much it would be worth your doing the hormone treatment (because i'm not sure whether it has significant side effects or an irreversile element or not). might be that it is fairly reversible (in which case there wouldn't be much harm in it) or might be that it isn't so much (in which case one would really want to be very sure before commencing).

i'm not sure... how much feeling complete would be about having facial hair and a more masculine figure. i'm not sure... i'd say that it would be worth having a chat to a therapist, though.

Until you're absolutely sure, don't begin anything of change like that. In fact, before any decent doctor will give you such hormonal treatment, you have to have some evals anyway, I think.

Being unsure of oneself at that age is normal. You mention low self esteem and depression. You might also post in the depression forum. There you will find how depression lies to you, telling you things that just aren't so, making you feel worse for the thoughts too!

Maybe "change" is what you want, as most people with depression say they want. But when they say it, if often comes out as not wanting to live. Maybe your depression is saying you just don't want to live the way you are anymore, and you're thinking if you change what you look like and how you act to fit (or vice versa) then you won't be confused and won't be depressed? If that's the cause, making such a huge change won't help either.

Do you have someone to talk these issues over with, like a counselor? If not, you might consider having a free consultation with a psychologist about how therapy can help you feel better about who you, and who you want to be.

TC.

Hi deb!
First off, let me say that I agree with everything that's already been said here so far. Especially the ones' who told you to seek professional help. Do it immediately before you do anything on the cuff............you might regret it later. I've been there myself, but I truly believe for myself, that it's wrong to have gender reassignment. God made us what we are, and we have no right to change that. Like I said, though, that's just MY own personal belief. I wish God had made me a boy, it's true. AS I think somehow men
get rewarded for "bad" behavior, and women are crucified somehow for following their lead. I always played the daddy role when I played house with my friends. I didn't want to be the mommy!!! I guess I had some notion that women weren't treated the same as men. Hmm, interesting.
Anyway, I think you need to do what's good for you. Being a lesbian, isn't the same category as wanting "gender" reassignment. You simply want to be a "man"????....that's totally different area to research. Does it make you feel awkward being with women and being a girl??? That's what lesbians want to do. They don't want to be men, they just want to be with women. Think about it hard, and see if
that's not what you really want. Another thing is, that's a very EXPENSIVE treatment too. Unless you have lots of money, they don't GIVE those kinds of surgeries away!!!!

hey. just wanted to say that i agree with sky. it is possible that it is a manifestation of depression and it would be good to check that before doing anything irreversible. i think she might be right about needing to be evaluated before commencing on hormone therapy too, so sounds like a therapist would be your first port of call.

> God made us what we are, and we have no right to change that.

i don't really understand this... do you mean it just to apply to sex, or do you mean it applies more generally?

do you know that some people are born with both male and female sex organs and usually the penis is amputated? do you think that this is similarly unacceptable? (i kinda do, but i was just interested to know your thoughts on this).

how do you feel about male circumscision? i mean... if males are born with a foreskin should we leave that alone because thats how god made them? (i'm not in favour of male circumscision but i'm kinda interested in whether you use similar reasoning in this situation)

do you know that some people are born with their legs not properly seperated and usually they are seperated with a knife. do you think that this is similarly unacceptable? (i don't, but i was just checking to see whether you feel this way about sex only or whether it generalises).

you don't have to reply...
but i'm kinda interested...

Alexandra:
Why am I the villain here? No!, I was talking about the way she feels right now. That she just soon be lesbian, than to change her whole person. You do not have to twist everything I've said. It has nothing to do with abnormalities that God hands out. I was speaking only in a sexual content. Perhaps it's not really sexual reassignment she's looking for??? But again, maybe she is? I think she's geniunely confused at the moment and can't decide what she wants! She may not really know. That's all I was trying
to say. And the part about it being "wrong" to change who we are???? that is just MY PERSONAL OPINION!!! Nothing more, nothing less.

i didn't say you were a villian. i was interested in your thoughts and asked you a couple questions and said that it was perfectly fine for you not to answer if you didn't feel like answering.

i'd sooner you ignore me than feel like you are bashing your head up against a brick wall..

This is sometimes where threads go wrong, guys...

When we hone in on certain responses, take them personally, etc., we're sometimes taking the focus off of the original poster who is asking for help and support.

This is an example of what might be better said in PM? If we have a personal issue with something another has posted, report the post or question them in PM?

Simply stating our disagreement with something another poster has said is fine...still giving info and support to the OP.

Let's keep responses directed to the support of the OP and not arguing that which we disagree on a personal level? State our opinions and thoughts and allow others to, leaving it to the OP (or like readers and posters) to take into themselves what they can use and need.

Also, if anyone would like to discuss this further, PLEASE PM me on it as opposed to posting here so that the thread can stay on track.

KD

DP, how are you doing on this topic now, after the replies?? (((hugs)))

Some of the research shows that with everyone who was conflicted and sought therapy, they found a trauma within the same-sex relationship, even with those who insisted (prior to therapy) that they didn't recall a trauma. A major upset with the relationship had occurred, this was a common denominator in each patient's case. Since you're so young, and questioning now, it would be good for you to go to therapy to discuss how you feel when those thoughts come up, what just happened and with whom. Therapy won't force you one way or another, but do what all therapy does: help you to find the reasons for your actions, thoughts and feelings, and offer you a way to change whatever you wish to change.

I couldn't have said it better!!! So young lady, please try some therapy before you make such an important decision
for your life. I think you've had some good advice so far. I hope you will consider asking for help from a trained professional soon.

Good luck!!!
drmr

if you look you will find...

i bet you won't find a single person in the world who doesn't have SOME kind of relational trauma with BOTH of their parents. not once you start digging round with the assumption that early childhood traumatisation is the ONLY explanation for whatever is going on for them.

the good news is that if you do have sex reassignment and you are attracted to females then you won't be lesbian anymore. seems there is always more than one 'solution' for homosexuality ;-)

personally... i don't see why one would want to change ones sexuality. i mean, i do understand that other people really can put a lot of pressure on us to conform to what THEY WANT. parents, in particular. but i really do think that a little acceptance is in order.

good luck figuring it out.
i hope you find someone to talk to (a therapist or something) who can accept you NO MATTER what you decide.
that way... you can feel free to come to a decision on what is right for you without worrying about dissapointing them etc.

(((((((( dp )))))))))

I agree that you have plenty of time to make any such decision...if and when it's right.

I hope you're doing OK.

Kd

Hi Debbie... I wanted to know too, how you are doing with this, even though its been about a month since you posted this. I'm a lesbian also and I think I have gender questions too. I'm a great deal older than you, but its always nice to run into another lesbian

wrenchergirl