[(JD)]

I found this in some notes, recently.

About Forgiving Others:

Don't remind them.
Don't harass them.
Don't intimidate them.
Don't tell others what happened.
Let them save face.
Remind yourself that you have forgiven them (remind yourself as often as you need to!)

I won't elaborate, as I think we can all fill in the blanks, as to what "harass" and "intimidate" etc could be, mean.

It's a simple formula...as ppl often ask "how do I forgive?" these might help frame it.

[__zh]

a most timely post _Sky.

a couple other things to remember about forgiveness is that we all work at our own pace. some ppl expect forgiveness just because they asked for it. takes time to work through the issues to a point of resolution.

the person asking forgiveness needs to remember that they can only control their own reactions............not the reactions of others. and if others are NOT receptive to being asked for forgiveness then move on and perhaps try again after some time has passed.

everyone has their own ideas about what forgiveness means to them. the list you posted above adds some very helpful ideas to keep in mind when working with this concept.

time. we think time is a major factor for those who expect forgiveness immediately upon asking for it following whatever transgressions led to the hurt feelings. give others time to process what has taken place. the passage of time helps more than almost anything we know........that and working very hard at understanding interpersonal dynamics and that often they do not work out how we hope or plan. ah the unpredictability of life........sigh.

thx _Sky.

[kimmydawn]

WONDERFUL post, sky.

do you mind if i print that out?

[(JD)]

be my guest.

I do not remind them
I do not harass them
I do not intimide them
I do not tell others what happened
I let them save face

But there is things that have been done to me that I can't forget and I can't give my forgiveness.

Time0

[Overcastbutclearing]

Interesting suggestions on forgiveness.
Taking them in and processing them.
Not sure how I really feel.
But thanks for sharing them.

Oh Thank you Sky for sharing this!

Your post striked me so hard I forgot to thank you. Bad bad Time0.

Sorry,
Time0

[ozzie]

Sky, I think this was an interesting post. </font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Remind yourself that you have forgiven them (remind yourself as often as you need to!)

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I don't think we can trick or coerce or convince ourselves to forgive someone. Sometimes it just takes a little while before we are truly ready to forgive. I do believe forgiveness is vital to our recovery though.

[(JD)]

Yes, this is all after you are ready, and have 'forgiven".... to help you to know how it happens, how to "feel" it and live it.

[(JD)]

YEs time0 also, there is a way to not forget,,, but still forgive.. but remember so it doesnt happen again? And there are some ideas about whether we can really forgive someone who hasn't asked for forgiveness (which is also different than their saying sorry.) This is a broad subject...

yw

[Fuzzybear]

being repeatedly invalidated as a person over time (months or years) makes it impossible to forgive.
So the non forgiveness is a protection against further hurt

Just my grizzly 2 cents
Fuzzy

[SeptemberMorn]

I understand how and why you feel that, Fuzzy... but you can forgive and not forget. You don't "forget" so that the same thing doesn't happen again, but you CAN forgive.

I've got a personal story about this very thing, if you want to hear it.

[SeptemberMorn]

Ok... here goes...

When my daughter was around 1 yr old, I shared a conversation with my then MIL that I had with a school friend. The friend told me that she would stick needles in her boy's tongue when he stuck it out at her or sassed her. She also would put a clothes pin, the ones with the spring, on his tongue. I repeated this to my MIL in shock and disgust.

Years later, when my daughter was in high school, she went to spend a weekend with her grandmother (my MIL). The woman told my daughter that *I* had done that to her, my daughter! My daughter didn't believe her, thank God!

We asked my daughter's youth minister from church about forgiving and my daughter seeing her grandmother again. I didn't want her to see her again. The youth minister explained "forgiveness" to me this way... You can forgive to release yourself from the anger and negative feelins, but you DON'T forget. If you "forget," you put yourself in harm's way again. Forgiving isn't forgetting! He suggested that if my daughter wanted to visit her grandmother again, that my daughter should tell her to not speak about me to her... or she could simply stay away from her when alone.

My daughter chose to not go visit her grandmother unless I, her step-dad (Jerry) or her uncle were with her. She knew her grandmother wouldn't "tell stories" about me in company. As it turned out, my daughter never went back to visit and as far as I know, she didn't hold a grudge against her grandmother, either.

In short, don't hold a grudge, but don't put yourself in harms way again, either.

Does that help any, FuzzyBaby??

Yes Sky I understand what you are saying. This subjet can be very vast depending on what has happened to each of us privatelly.

And you are right that I can't give my forgiveness to someone who didn't even asked for it and further more in my case to someone who don't feel he/she has hurt me, don't care if he/she did hurt me, do not believe in saying sorry, do not even feel that I do deserve an apology, do not feel I am worthy of anything. I think that I could maybe give my forgiveness to someone who has hurt me, even if this was did by purpose, but only once, but not when it is constantly repeated.

There is probably different situations where we can give our forgiveness but I don't believe in some cases I will ever be able too.

Good subjet!
Time0

[SeptemberMorn]

Time0, I have forgiven my abuser... she was my grandmother. I can either choose to continue hating her and feeling all the bad emotions, being tied down by them,... or I can choose to not let her control the rest of my life that way.

She was dead when I found out what she had done to me as a child. I hated her, imagined all kind of evil things to do to her to make her "pay" for a very long time. I was sorry that she was dead because all I could do was "imagine" these awful things to do to her... like literally skin her alive and rejoice in her screams... but all that did was to keep her abuse of me going on and on and on... as long as I had these feelings and thoughts... or...

I could not so much "forgive" her, but consider the environment in which she had been brought up, probably suffering the same things that she made ME suffer, muster what little pitty I can for her (not very much!!!!) and make the conscious decision to put it aside so that I could move on with my own life WITHOUT her control.

If she had been alive, I can't say what I would have done or said to her, but now, I would probably not let her touch me in any way, shape or form, and if she started calling me the names she used to, I'd simply walk out of her house which was my mother's house. They were always joined at the hip. Dealing with my mother's feelings would be yet another story. But you CAN separate your feelings from a person.

I'm afraid that in your situation, it is ALMOST impossible to do because you live with that person. I said "almost" on purpose. It takes a great deal of courage and maneuvering to accomplish it when it faces you every day. In my present situation with my husband, I have had to learn to separate my emotions from his so that when he wants to "abuse" me, I don't receive it as such. It's taken me 15 yrs to even begin to accomplish such a feat but I consciously made the decision to take him back into my home. It's a balancing act.

When my husband "abuses" me emotionally, he's automatically forgiven so that I don't hold grudges and resentments because if I did, I would be doing MYSELF a disservice. In order to short circuit his abuse, I depend on myself for everything as much as possible. It's a long, difficult and painful process and most of all, a CHOICE that is made. I don't recommend it to anyone.

{{{{{{{{{Time0}}}}}}}}}}

[Fuzzybear]

Thanks for taking the time to reply to the growly bear!
((((((((((((((((((((((((Tomi))))))))))))))))))))))))


Fuzzy

good stuff to on!

[(JD)]

Yeah, I understand time0 and fuzzybear... but there is a way to forgive, or rather allow yourself to let go of the situational animosity, and yet not forget, so that you are free to feel safe that you won't let it happen again. Kind of like... forgiving someone for attacking you here, moving on about it, but leaving them on ignore. You know?

[SeptemberMorn]

"Ignore"????

[Fuzzybear]

((((((((((((( sky ))))))))))))))

I typed out a post but deleted it so here are some growly hugs instead

[gardenergirl]

I wish I still had it, but I read a description of a talk that someone was going to give about forgiveness that really struck me. The gist of it was that in order to even begin to move towards forgiveness, one must first accept. This speaker viewed acceptance of the hurtful event/circumstance/behavior as more valuable than forgiveness. They also said that forgiveness was not even necessary to move towards healing if you accept.

I should clarify that by "accept" the speaker was not referring to approving of a behavior/hurtful event/circumnstance, nor condoning it. But rather accepting that it occured and what that means for you.

I found it intriguing to think about this, and I wish I had been able to attend the talk.

gg

[(JD)]

sounds good to me my T has good thoughts about all of this, too.... how the right attitude about this subject is really for US, and not for the other person who affronted us...

[gardenergirl]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
_Sky said:
sounds good to me my T has good thoughts about all of this, too.... how the right attitude about this subject is really for US, and not for the other person who affronted us...

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Exactly!

gg

[Estee1]

I heard a really good thing about forgiveness so i'll share it with ya.

Not forgiving someone is like drinking deadly poison and expecting it to kill your enemy.

[ozzie]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
how the right attitude about this subject is really for US, and not for the other person who affronted us...


</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> My T. always said this too and I believe it. Forgiveness is in our best interest. It has little to do with the other person, imo. Thanks for a great thread Sky.

[Hopefull]

I agree. Forgiveness is a way to release one's self from the pain of the past. But, how does one do it? I tried it in college. However, I half wonder if I tried to forgive before I even came to acceptance. So how does one come to acceptance and how does forgive?