[Rapunzel]

or what I want to say. I've been wanting to post about what has been going on with me, but there seems like too much and it is overwhelming. People have PMed me and I just keep saying that I'm thinking about posting. I really do appreciate those who have asked about me. Maybe I can do this little by little if I just convince myself that it doesn't all have to be posted all at once.

Let's see - there's a bit of background that I posted in Relationships if you haven't seen that.

Relationships are a big part of it. I'm not good at close personal relationships. Online is easier, and less threatening. I figued out a little while ago that I get irritated and push people away when they get too close, maybe because I'm afraid that if they get too close they will see what I'm really like, and then they might hate me or abandon me. So it's about self-esteem too, because I don't like myself. T says that I hate myself, but I don't like to say that. It sounds so harsh.

T expects me to do something, not just keep complaining about things I'm not willing to do anything about. But last time I saw her she told me not to make any decisions yet. I don't know if that has changed or not. All she is going to do is paraphrase whatever I say to her, until I figure things out myself. I've been too dependent all my life, and she isn't going to rescue me or give me the answers. It's frustrating. I wish that she would tell me if I'm doing anything right, but she hesitates to give me praise because usually I distort it or discredit it or ignore it, and respond by reporting a self-injury relapse, although I don't mean to or plan it that way.

I keep avoiding dealing with stuff. Three years ago I had a severe major depressive episode and was suicidal and did some serious SI. That was a wake-up call for me that I was not happy with my life and something had to change. I decided to go back to school in psychology, like I had always wanted to do and never thought that I could. I finished my BA, and went to work, and now I'm in a master's program in counseling. I'm a workaholic. T says that it's just another way of avoiding dealing with my own life (even if it's a more productive way than before).

It's still not enough of an escape though. I applied to doctoral programs, and I'm disappointed that I didn't get in, and part of my disappointment is that I would have been commuting and gone 4-5 days per week, and that would have been an escape.

I don't know if my husband is actually abusive or if I just make him out to be that way. I believe that he really does love me, a lot more than I have ever or could ever love him. ***More Guilt*** I never should have gotten married and started a family. I jumped out of one cage and into another one, without ever learning to fly on my own. I have never been strong or confident, and I want to be, and I don't know if I can ever learn as long as I am in this relationship where I am dependant on my husband, who rescued me when I couldn't see any other options (16 years ago this Thursday). Going away to school would have been controversial, but better than just plain leaving. If he were abusive, that would give me a better excuse. I'm awful for thinking this way.

Of course he is scared of what I might decide, and he's been tightening his grip by questioning everything I'm doing in therapy. He never wanted me to go to therapy again, and says that I was fine up until about three years ago when I started changing. He says that I'm supposed to be dependent on him, and that focusing on myself and my own needs is selfish, and I should put the family first. It shouldn't matter what I want.

When I talk about these things that he has said, he claims that I took it the wrong way, and wasn't really what he meant. He's not a bad guy. I don't want to hurt him. Maybe he's right. But I can't go back to what I was like three years ago.

Okay, I was just going to write a short post, but once I got started I think I kept going for a while. I can always write more later.

I could use some help with building self-esteem and confidence so that I can do something and stop running and avoiding and looking for an easy way out, and questioning everything that I think.

Thanks,
Rap

[(JD)]

((((RAP)))) You don't deserve to hate yourself!

[Rapunzel]

(((((((Sky)))))))

Thank you. I don't know how to stop though.

[lenjan]

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Rap}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} I give credit for learning how not to hate myself to my current T (who is, of course, now LEAVING me -- waaaaaah!). He may be the most empathetic person I've ever met. He accepts me for who I am, which nobody had ever done for me before, and slowly, over the years, having proved over and over again to me that he truly cares about me and not just because it's his job, I started to hear his affirmations and good thoughts about me and take them to heart.

It took complete trust in him for me, and a lot of genuine care from someone who thinks well of me, to get me to stop hating myself, but I did it. I backslide now and then, but most days I can at least tolerate myself, if not like myself, and that is a bigger step for me than anyone can ever know.

It's a slow process, but if you can find even one person (T should be it, IMHO!) who will challenge your self-hate thoughts and statements, eventually they will go away. In your case, getting away from a control freak husband also would be a good idea, but I know that's much, much easier said than done.

PM or email anytime and I'll do my best to help.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Rap}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Love, Candy

[Rapunzel]

{{{{{{{{{Candy}}}}}}}}}}}

I'm so sorry that your T is moving away. It's not easy to find a good one, and when you do, you want to keep him or her. My T is good too, but she's so frustrating right now. I guess because she won't let me be dependent and expect her to fix things for me, and she won't give me the answers.

Right now, anyway, she won't give me affirmations or counter the self-hate. I guess I'm supposed to do that myself too. I did have a therapist who countered the negative statements I made about myself, and I wasn't going to get any further with him because I just politely thanked him and pretended to agree, but inside I didn't believe him and kept on arguing against him.

I'd like to have a taste of independence, but I don't know that it's a good enough reason to leave my family. And I don't have the resources to leave even so. But part of what I'm looking for is what people think about my situation, and whether trying it on my own would be justifyable, and if so, how would I do that?
Rap

[praxis]

Your story sounds kind of similar to mine. Married too young, feeling stifled and held back, went back to school against husband's wishes, my every attempt at independence is met with criticism by hubby and other family members.

I left my family for about a month a couple of years ago (house sitting for a friend) and my husband has been treating me with more respect since then. Still not such a great relationship and I think I would leave if I had the resources, but the power differential is not as great as it had been. He now knows he can't expect me to always put his needs before mine. He is starting to slide back into his old habits, but I am dealing with that by adjusting my work hours so I don't see him that much. I guess that's avoidance, but it seems to be helping.

I think your husband is being emotionally abusive by interfering with your therapy and invalidating your needs. He has become accustomed to being number one and doesn't want to give it p. Who would? You have as much right to grow and develop as he has. You need to live your own life and you don't need to justify it. I think you should continue to fight for your indepenence any way you can.

[Rapunzel]

Thanks Praxis. It sounds like being away for a month was a good thing for you, and I do think we have a lot in common. I was 20 when I got married, but it was too young for me. What did you go back to school in? My husband says that he supports me in going back to school, but I could tell that going away to school scares him, and he made comments about the chance that I would get romantically involved with someone else or something like that. He goes back and forth between being willing or not to transfer to the place where I get accepted (if I did/ever do). Now that I've been rejected by the programs I replied to this year, and I might as well go ahead and finish my master's and wait and see if I want to apply again some other year, he has asked about what if he took a job where the programs I applied to are. When I went to interviews he was not willing to consider the possibility of transferring, so I told them that I would be commuting and staying with relatives.

I'd love to go stay with my relatives in Norway for a few months or a year. I went for a couple of weeks a year and a half ago. But that's not independence. I depended on them to drive me around, give me a place to stay, etc. It was nice though. I wonder if there would be any way to arrange for a practicum in Norway. Probably not.

I don't think that I want to leave my family permanently, but I think it would be good for me to be on my own for a while somehow.

[praxis]

My husband and I were both 20 when we married. That's way too young imo. We had no clue what we were doing. I didn't go to college right after high school b/c of some trouble during my senior year (long story). Anyway, I was 39 when I finally started my formal education. I'm 47 now *sigh* I got a BS in sociology, and have done a few grad classes in public polocy. Best thing I ever did for myself, even though it hasn't translated to increased earning power. Oh well.

My husband came up with a million reasons why I shouldn't go back to school, but it all came down to his own insecurity. He was (is) afraid of my independence. He did things to make it hard for me to study and attend classes. He also started accusing me of having an affair immediately. I nearly did, but only b/c of his constant accusations.

I really would like to be on my own and support myself. I feel like I've lost a big chunk of my identity, and that I missed out on a lot of things I should have done in my 20s. I want to have all those experiences now, even if it means being selfish.

I think it would be good for you to go to Norway if there is any way you can arrange it. And to keep applying to grad schools. Keep your options open and dont be afraid to exercise them. I still have huge self esteem issues, but I'm working on it. I'm really kind of a scaredy cat about making changes and standing up for myself, but it is so rewarding when I do!

[(JD)]

Maybe the first step in learning how to not hate ourselves is in beginning to like ourselves? This is how a good change of diet works... adding the good stuff before we can eliminate the poorer foods?

Of course it won't happen all at once.

If we find even one thing about ourselves that we do well... NOT bad or poorly... and anyone reading/posting on site can claim THAT imo. We don't get to evaluate it or weigh it against the negative things we think of ourselves...

when someone tells us something positive about ourselves, we accept it at face value, no countering.

I think you can do this.

[Fuzzybear]

(((((((((((((((((((Rap))))))))))))))))))

[Rapunzel]

Praxis, thanks for sharing more of your story. I think that spending some time away would be a good thing if and when I can arrange it, either in Norway or someplace else. And maybe it's not just about running away and finding an easy way out, like I think sometimes. It really could be a healthy experience.

Sky, I can't tell you how much your support and your confidence in me means to me.

((((((Fuzzy)))))))) Thanks for reading my saga and keeping up with it. It's nice to know you are here.

Now I'm back into the class and too much to get done and sleep deprivation mode, but I want to update you on the realizations I made last night and today.

Of course my husband has been suspecting that something was up, and he is afraid I'll leave him, and he doesn't want that to happen. He told me he is envisioning the worst-case scenarios all the time. And I can understand that. I've been trying to figure out if my recovery is worth breaking up the relationship. One thing that I realized is that I don't only have a choice between on one side staying in a dependent relationship and not recovering, or on the other side getting out and starting a new life on my own. There is also a middle ground, which is working on the relationship and trying to make it what it needs to be so that I can grow and recover, and bring my family along with me. I think that it might be harder that way than either of the others, but I think it's what I need to try first.

The other thing that I realized is that when I say that I need to stop being dependent, and I need to be autonomous and independent, he is thinking in extremes and maybe that's what he means when he tells me that I am supposed to be dependent. But actually, it is a continuum, and I have been dependent to an unhealthy extreme and need to move more to the middle. But that doesn't mean that I won't need other people, or him, at all. Other things are like that too. I've been out of touch with my own wants and needs to the point that I couldn't even recognize them, and I do need to learn to stand up for myself and focus inward enough to know what I think and what I want and who I am, but that doesn't mean that I have to neglect everyone else, and not care about their needs, and walk all over them. It's more about bringing it into a proper balance.

Rap