Am I bad?

There are so many things about me that don't feel okay. Some are things that I can't change, and some are things that I don't want to change, but feel guilty for not wanting to change.

<UL><LI>I am white. It isn't cool not to be a minority these days. I can't help it though. I tell myself that I wasn't part of the opression that happened in the U.S. My ancestors came to the U.S. less than 60 years ago (on one side of the family). They were poor where they came from (Norway), and came here because after the war, life looked pretty bleak for them. But since I'm Scandinavian, not only am I white, but I am very light. When I took multicultural classes, I tried to claim that I am bicultural too, since I am first-generation American, and my culture of inheritance is different in some ways. But it's still European, so it doesn't count. In fact, I am quite thoroughly European-American, and that seems to be a bad thing somehow.
<LI> I am a member of the predominant religion where I live. I am not from here, and coming to this state was a culture-shock for me too. One of the reasons I came here was because I wanted to see what it was like to be part of the majority. I did experience some religious persecution (not a lot, but I was exposed to people making fun of my beliefs and members of my faith), and I wanted to get away from that. I have lived in places where it had within a few years been illegal to belong to my church. In one state (yes, in the U.S.) there was a state law that said that members of my church could be executed just for being who we are. That law was not repealed until 1976. I often get the impression that people want me to be ashamed of my beliefs, but I am not. It seems like it would be more okay to be unashamed of this if I still lived in a place where I was in the minority.
<LI>I don't belong in the 21st Century. The worldwide communication that we have is wonderful, and I don't know what I would do without that. But I don't fit with the modern way of life. It scares me that most people do not even know how to provide for their own basic needs, and don't care to be involved in it anyway. I like having animals, and fruit trees, and space around me. Most people find the animals a nuisance, and I was surprised to find that non-fruiting trees are preferred for gardening, as fruit makes a mess. I don't want neighbors too close because they would tend to be annoyed by the way I want to live. Does that make me antisocial?
<LI>I couldn't do the stay-at-home mom routine.
<LI>I will probably never quite get where I would like to in a career because of the years I took off trying to be a stay-at-home mom. Now I am locked into a path that will take me closer to what I want to do, but not quite, and it will probably limit me from going on.
<LI>My income isn't enough to provide enough to my family to be worth the time that I am unavailable to them. It isn't enough to raise our standard of living much. And I feel bad for wanting a higher standard of living, while at the same time I feel inferior because most of the people around me seem to be so far above me, and I shouldn't be noticing that.[/list]I could put more here. I've probably posted these questions before, too. I'm not getting anything done, and I'm running out of time, but I can't think about what I need to right now. It seems not okay for me to feel bad for myself, or to break out of feeling bad for myself. It seems like I am just supposed to be stuck. But that isn't okay either. I can't win.

Rap

Rap, you do belong to a minority it's called mentally challanged, those of us with dx are in a minority
your not anti-social, just knowing animals have unconditional love, this is not anti-social
the support you give here is awesome, stop puting YOU down

Oh, wow-- way to go expressing your inner-self!! It's so hard for me to do that(to make sense and not be misunderstood)--- Kudos to you.

Now, on to your subjects......

I'm also white, was raised in a bi-racial home though.(it's a long story...) Anyway, I do have darker skin and brown eyes but not bi-racial--- I often got persecuted at home-- from some siblings for trying to be non-white!(-- since I'm darker) Like as if anyone can control their skin color or their ancestry and should be judged about it!!!! argh!!

I'm sorry I can't comment on the religion..... as I don't belong to any. I will say-- I think it's absolutely horrible that others would consider execution just by what religion one is.(that's partly why I'll have no part of religion-- so much of that kind of thing goes on-- IMO)

Oh boy-- I hear you about feeling you don't belong in this century!! I grow fruit- but, I don't have any farm animals and wouldn't know how to care for them, was born and raised in the city. I enjoy growing things to eat-- like, I always make my own applesauce... my kids now, won't even eat store bought. That's cool you know about animals!!
NO, I don't believe just because you like to live away from people that makes you unsociable. I would guess you like your down time--- need an escape from the hussle and bussle--- Nothing wrong with that at all!!!

I believe it takes a certain personality feature to be a stay-at-home mom. Just because you aren't one doesn't mean you are bad. I've been a stay at home mom--well, I've worked part-time.... being a stay at home mom is very hard. The HARDEST job I ever did!!! (not that I'm knocking being a mom or my children-- but let's face it-- it's rough!!)

I also hear you, about getting where you'd like to be in a career and not seeing it's possible. After 19 years of various part-time jobs and 19 years of service at home-- I'm on the same level as a fast-food worker -- as pay goes and seniority!

I think sometimes it helps to think of working-- not as how much extra one is giving to the family-- but the quality one experiences by doing what they feel "drives them", gives them a feeling of purpose and acknowledgement and how that good feeling can then show in how one interacts with their family-- IMO.

I think it's OK to feel bad when you don't feel you fit in and also to feel bad when you do! It's a very confusing time we live in!!

I think you're awesome-- all you do!! (hope you don't mind me saying that)

Rapunzel--

mandy

Well, I think that ought to count, and I've got plenty of dx. Somehow it seems like most people don't count that though. Maybe if it I had severe enough problems to qualify for disability, but I manage working. They are so careful in the mental health field not to discriminate, but somehow discriminating for mental health issues doesn't seem to count.

Thanks Mandy. It sounds like we have quite a bit in common. You went through and addressed my questions pretty thoroughly, which is really what I needed someone to do.

I have one sister who has dark hair and darker skin than the rest of us. She just turned out that way. My husband is the only one of his siblings who ended up with dark hair too. I guess it can go either way. I think that both of them have mostly been envied for having what nobody else in the family got. Nobody can control their genetic inheritance, but it does feel like it is less acceptable for European-Americans to celebrate their heritage. As a kid, I wanted to be Chinese. I even took a semester of Mandarin, and hung around with the Oriental kids. But I wasn't accepted very well. A guy I liked (who was Taiwanese) didn't like to be seen with me because I was white. When we went someplace together he avoided visability as much as possible.

So many people have faught for freedom of religion. Those who believe something strongly get beaten down by whichever group is mainstream in that time or place and don't like the status quo being challenged.

I grew up in cities and with few pets. I always wanted animals though. And I've always liked making things myself. These days there are only two reasons for making things yourself. One is if the experience means something to you, and the other is in order to have a quality that can't be mass-produced, or something that is unique and can't be found on store shelves. Some people have made comparisons between the things that I make myself (thinking of fiber arts now - spinning, knitting, weaving, etc.) and commercial versions. They seem to think that "It's almost like store-bought" is a compliment, but it's not really. I use higher quality materials and put a lot more time and effort into it than most of what is in the store. My goal is not to reproduce what can be mass-produced. So there's another one. I don't even want to be like everyone else. Sometimes I feel bad for not wanting to fit in, but still wanting to be accepted. Some people respect some of what I do, and I appreciate that. I don't want to be mainstream, so I guess I shouldn't lament that I stand out. Or lament that I don't stand out enough sometimes. Where is the balance?

Thanks.
Rap

No, not bad.

IMO you need to broaden your horizons... because if you include the whole world, who is a minority and who is a majority? If I think my area only, I am a minority but in the world? Does it matter?

I understand about religion. Yes, the USA had more religions on the list as cults instead...yet even Christianity was considered a "cult" when it first began in the Middle East. I think everyone who truly lives their beliefs regarding a higher power, will be persecuted in some way.

I would be hesistant to label anyone anti social just for wanting to live without the clutter of relationships as part of life. Again, I would ask you to consider the BIGGER PICTURE when it comes to the 21st century... even technology helps the farmers create better and bigger crops...we still eat, and one of the reasons ppl don't farm/have gardens is because they can't afford large enough property to do that??? Yes, I hear you, even my HOA won't allow fruit trees in the front yard, and only 1 in the back. Too messy for the front view, and likewise in the back, that encourages rats and other vermints lol... when ppl live so close together..you know? But use what this information age can give you in your desired life of solitude YOu can stay connected without going anywhere! lol

Not all of us can do the stay at home mom scene. Why aren't you asking about the stay at home dad scene? Trick question.

You know what theme I find in all of your paragraphs? You seem to be trying to find who you are by outside sources...comparing your life with what you think the world expects. It's ok to want some things (even God says He will give you the DESIRES of your heart.) It's ok to work. It's ok to not be what you thought you would be. (Look how many things we said we would be when we were growing up )

You also sound like you are doing the "what if" in the background.

We have travelled the path we have for reasons. Some of those reasons were beyond our control. Some of the decisions were made because we had to learn how to make them. You seem to expect to have had the knowledge and understanding that you have now, back when you were trying to decide what was best...and doubt that you chose the right path?

((((rap)))) You don't sound happy. To me you sound like you are reminiscing and regretting and second guessing yourself.

The way I have learned to look at things in general is I did the best I could. Yes, knowing what I know now, going back to then, I would make different choices, decisions. But that isn't how it was. When I was there, I did the best I could. Just like I am today...and like you are doing today also, aren't you? Aren't you struggling to do the best you can, with the information and situations you have now? Of course. Quit beating yourself up. TC

((((((((Sky)))))))))

I don't feel happy. I generally feel like I screwed up my life, but writing this, that wasn't what I was thinking about. I think I'm looking for permission to be who I am. I may be discovering how I define myself, and I have been questioning whether that is okay for a long time, and I haven't gotten any real answers. I guess I shouldn't be looking for those answers from other people, but I need someone to tell me that I can be accepted for these things.

I recognize also that people can't afford enough property to raise animals and fruit, etc. That is what really scares me. Self-sufficiency is out of reach for most people. I'm afraid that it will be out of reach for me too.

I am sad and scared and confused. And I have two papers to write tonight because I won't have time tomorrow, and I don't feel like doing it. I haven't felt like it all week. It has to get done, and I can't even get started. I am so tired, and I don't have time to sleep, and probably won't have time to sleep for two days yet to come. I feel like doing more than beating myself up, but I don't think I'm going to.

Thanks for your reply. It helps things to make more sense to me.

Rap

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Sometimes I feel bad for not wanting to fit in, but still wanting to be accepted. Some people respect some of what I do, and I appreciate that. I don't want to be mainstream, so I guess I shouldn't lament that I stand out. Or lament that I don't stand out enough sometimes. Where is the balance?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I believe your answer to the question-- Where is the balance?-- is right there in your statement...... being "accepted"---- but the balance is not outside -- it's inside--- Self-acceptance.

I think that people who can truly accept and love themselves (at least this is what I'm told-- haven't accomplished it myself ) do have "balance". Try and look around, I did, and noticed that the people that appear to accept themselves for who they are, seem to have balance-- it's like they are gliding along in life--- while I'm floundering, swallowing water-- swimming against the tide!

Yes, you and I do have commonality as do many others struggling with the same. You're not alone-- some really do understand.

Oh-* a side note *- I think Sky had some really good points!!

Rap---

<font color="blue">[b] ((((RAPUNZEL)))) God and the universe have already given you that permission. Now reach out and take it.

Last week, in the final group session of my goup counseling class, the group closed with having each person tell each person what they saw as their strengths. I was surprised what they said my strengths were, because I either didn't think I had those qualities or I didn't think they were strengths. Here are some of the things they said:

One person said that I was resilient. I never thought of myself as resilient because I take life really hard and feel beaten up by it all the time, and the stuff that gets to me isn't always even very big. They also said that I was willing to deal with my problems (and also to be open about my problems). I don't hide much from that group (although I don't really want them to know how much is still current), and I think I was more open than some were.

They keep saying that I'm a "walking dictionary." I haven't been sure how to take that, and hoped that it didn't mean I was too much of a know-it-all. I really have been working on not correcting people though (that's been an issue for me, as well as being a know-it-all - one professor kept awarding points to Griffindor every time i answered a question, like I must have come across like Hermione Granger). They explained that they meant that in a good way, that they thought I was well-read and had broad interests, and knew something about almost everything. They use me as a resource, and ask me questions when they don't understand something or don't know how to do something.

Another comment was that I'm not afraid to be different, and to wear colors that stand out. But sometimes I wear a lot of brown and tan, and sometimes I feel like being invisible and dress that way, but not always I guess. I really just wear what I'm comfortable in. Usually that's a little different because I hardly ever wear t-shirts (I get too cold), and I think dresses are more comfortable than jeans, especially if I'm driving a lot. And the socks that I make are all quite loud. Right now I have long socks on that are black, red, yellow, medium green, purple, light green, blue, and dark green striped. They are warm, and nobody else has anything like them.

The other one I can remember was connection with my past and heritage, and my Scandinavian culture. Sometimes I question that too, because sometimes it seems like it's not good to be too European-American, but I am proud of my heritage. I guess that just about anything could be a strength or a liability, depending on how you look at it and what you do with it.

"They kept saying that I'm a "walking dictionary"

I am biting my tongue on this one. But they always did say I have a good vocabulary for my age.

((((((((( Rap )))))))))

"I guess that just about anything could be a strength or a liability, depending on how you look at it and what you do with it!".

Fantastic point. And one I think everyone should ponder. It's kinda obvious even to my fuzzy brain...... but my fuzzy heart finds it harder, at times, to hang onto that truth.

Rap sounds to me like you have many good qualities...enjoy them...do not beat yourself up over them...Please accept yourself because it sounds like so many people look up to you...You can tell by the great things people in your therapy group said...Please try to be thankful for who you are!!

(((((((((Rap))))))))))

No, you're not bad. Beyond that, I need some time to think about a thoughtful (as opposed to reactive) reply. Just wanted you to know I read, and care.

Will you make me some loud socks? I'd love a pair.



Love, Candy

Thanks again, everyone, for the reassurance you're giving me. I think what I'm doing here is working out the stuff that I need to work through but that is a little off-topic from what I'm doing with T. Or that I'm expected to be able to do on my own, maybe. Some of it I've written to T also, but it isn't what she chooses to comment on. Anyway, I do appreciate the feedback.

Here's a little more explanation regarding the comment about it's not too good to be European-American. As a kid, I always wanted to be Chinese. Obviously that didn't work out too well, but I tried to hang out with the Oriental kids in high school. There was a boy I liked all through 4 years, and even after I moved away although he wouldn't write back to me (except once when I was taking a Chinese class, and wrote to him a little bit in Chinese - he said his parents were impressed). I noticed that when I went someplace with him, he avoided being where we would be likely to be seen. When I asked him about that, he said that he was embarrassed to be seen with me because I was white.

I also picked up from my family that there was something wrong with being who we were. My father's family left Norway after WWII. My grandfather had a job during the war working for the Germans at a POW camp. That wasn't really cool, even though there were pretty much no other jobs available, and he did what he could to help out the prisoners (like pausing by the fence with the cart of food he was supposed to feed to the pigs, because the prisoners were starving, and they grabbed out whatever they could from the cart - people in the town also gave the prisoners the crusts from their sandwiches if they could get away with it). I heard from my father many times that the Germans marched right into Norway and occupied it, and were entirely surprised that the Norwegians didn't embrace them as cousins, since the Nazis considered Scandinavians to belong to the Aryan race and therefore to be part of them. My family didn't do a lot to preserve our heritage and culture, and I regretted that. When I asked my father about it, he pretty much said that when he was growing up, he had to try to blend in because Norwegians were associated with the Germans, and in the U.S. in the late 40's and following years, that was bad. Just plain being an immigrant was also not very well-accepted.

Those stories came back to me when I was in classes that covered multiculturalism, and I tried to suggest that my culture should be considered too, and that I was bi-cultural because I am first-generation American, and there are some cultural differences that I experience. I was told that I was wrong because it's all still European-American, part of the majority culture. Here's where my twisted thinking comes in. First of all, I drew pretty impermeable lines between people who have minority vs. majority status. The majority oppresses the minority, so therefore the majority is bad, so that's not what I want to be. It must be better to be minority, then. That's all very rigid and messed up. I end up feeling bad about who I am, and about things that can't be changed. People are who they are - white people can be good or bad or in-between, and so can people who are minority. I do like my Scandinavian heritage, and honestly I am proud of that, but I can always find a way to make myself feel bad about something. It doesn't stop me from learning about that culture, learning the language and traditional arts, etc., and I do enjoy that.

And back to loud socks. I think I ought to teach knitting classes so everyone can make loud socks for themselves. Maybe the way I dress wouldn't be odd if more people learned how to come up with their own creations. Want to look at where I get a lot of my inspiration lately? http://www.knitty.com It's an online knitting magazine, and some of the stuff they publish has an unusual kick to it. I never reproduce anything exactly - I add my own variations, but it's kinda similar. I think it would be amusing to look through the patterns (including the ones in the archives) even if you're not a knitter. And if you want to learn, I could probably help you with that.
The world needs more loud socks, etc.!

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
People are who they are - white people can be good or bad or in-between, and so can people who are minority.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> yep, some of it's still in ya I am in the minority where I live in South Florida because I am white/European. But I know what you mean

I am upset that my country no longer really teaches our history to our youth. I'm sorry to hear that only the majority have any clout there where you are. I am not biased, prejudice etc (and correct any statment that I find out to be historically erroneous.) I prefer peoples to not intermarry, if only to keep their cultures strong, rich, and alive. To have that history is a delight that deepens as one ages, imo. But I have no personal problem with ppl marrying into whatever race they choose.

I think you need to travel Rapunzel. Not only will that help you change your distortions about these things, but you will love the learning process

Travel is good. I've lived in Spain, and spent 2 1/2 weeks in Norway. I wish I could do more. I wonder if I might be able to do a practicum someplace away from home. I'd really like to live in one of the countries where my languages are spoken, among the natives, for long enough to become fluent. I've lived all over the U.S. too. Well, not the East so much, but California, Illinois, Texas, New Mexico, Utah, Idaho, Wyoming. And I've been to Florida, and my family drove from New York to Texas when we came back from Spain. I've travelled more than most people, I would say, but still would like to more.

And I also lament that history is not taught as much as it should be. Not just local history, but the history of the whole world. My theory is that it became uncomfortable to teach history so much once political correctness said that people couldn't talk about religion. You can't separate them and really cover history.

I have found (at the ripe old age of 56) that it doesn't start to become "clear" until one is in one's early 50's. I got a BA and went to work, etc. back in the 60s/70s (you think you don't belong in the 21st century, you should try the 1960s; I've never been more "scared" and confused in my life!) and now I'm working on a second BA (and then a masters, pretty much for the heck of it, I'm retired now). The second BA is because back in 1970 I changed my major in my senior year and got a degree in a whole nother subject than where my heart was but didn't realize it until 4-5 years ago when I was doing a pretend look-back from age 85 and what will I regret? exercise. So, I now am straightening out that 30+ year old mistake and having a ball doing so! Another thing, I didn't get married until I was 39 and my husband had been married before with 3 children and I didn't even "try" the children home or work problem and brood occasionally now on not having had children at all and who's going to look in on me in my old age and will I be totally forgotten 2 years after I die, etc.

I think we all have a "bag" of thoughts, problems, goals, etc. we carry around, sometimes working on some, avoiding others, trading still others, a bag that is unique, ours only. But I think it does magic things like Mary Poppins' bag when she pulled the lamp out of it :-)

Don't fret Rapunzel, life could never have gone the way you planned it in the past and it still isn't controllable now, in the present/future. It's going to change, probably beyond recognition and, as much as I'm able to "promise" you, it will be okay, you will be okay, you ARE okay.

I can relate to quite a bit of that, actually. I changed my major away from what I wanted to do too, because I didn't think I could be acceptable for what I wanted to do. My senior year I realized that for electives I had taken all the required classes for the other major, so I had a dual major and ended up (14 years later) with B.A. in the major I prefer (gave up on school entirely when I didn't get into graduate school, and didn't graduate even though I had finished all the requirements for both majors - the first one wouldn't give it to me after that long, but the second one did).

I wish that I had waited to get married and have kids until I knew who I was, but I was afraid I would never have the chance, and also afraid I would be bad if I didn't do that when I had the chance.

I hope it works out ok, for both of us. So, what are you studying?

My degree is in sociology but now I'm getting my second in history. I hope to wander to grad school next fall or Spring, 2008 here: http://www.csudh.edu/hux/ I like to write papers. I have a faint idea of teaching at the community college level but by the time I get a master's I'll be 62+ and can just picture myself trying to land a job then :-)

I'm pretty sure I'm going to be okay; I've gotten this far, can't be much harder than what I've worked through to get here.

How old will you be then if you don't get a masters? Keep on keeping on folks!