Iggy...

I took the liberty to copy what you said in the other thread and refute it. Here we go...

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If some people cause such a thing to happen, it's no big deal. If I do it, it becomes a problem. Go figure.

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How do you know, without a doubt, that Wants2 is talking about YOU?? Do you suppose that MAYBE, just MAYBE she might be talking about Lee Ann? After all, SHE'S the one that did all the posting to you! So I assumed the same thing as you did! Could it be that it's because you're the most active here besides me? Nothing wrong with that!

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There's a more valid reason people shouldn't like me and it's not just because of my negative attitude about some things.

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If it's not just your looks or your negative attitude, then WHY?? Why would it be about your looks anyway?? We don't see you when we read your posts! Hell, if it was looks, no one would post to me either! YOU'RE NOT HARD TO LOOK AT, OK?!?!?

Gary, do you enjoy your misery? If the answer is "no," then why don't you accept what people tell you? Why do you waste so much energy denying the truth? What you call YOUR truth is NOT truth!

Seriously, think about getting some counceling. Your thinking about yourself is so warped.

Answer me this; what kind of worker are you? Do you do good work? Are you a good employee? This is stricktly work I'm talking about, not the social interactions that may or may not exist at your job. I'd like to know what you think of your work ethic, etc.

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SpazKatt, I still can't believe you question your appearance. There's no possible reason why you should.

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Again I ask, why do YOU question your appearance? It doesn't really matter what others see. It's what the individual sees. Why can't you see a regular looking guy when you look in the mirror?

I've only scratched the surface in giving reasons why I know I'm right.

43 years old and never having had a girlfriend, as much as a kiss, or even one date should say enough.

Do I have to also give examples of where I've been told so?

I don't think you'll want to hear that.

Booberhead , Please sweetie check into getting counseling to help you with your insecurity
At this moment I don't know who I'am

I love it when you call me booberhead.

Can I call you Booberhead too?

There she is!

((((AG))))

You can call me booberhead too.

Booberhead?

Kind of ironic, since my head never gets near any boobs.

And I'm sure it comes as no surprise that I'm not an angel.

I never thought of you as not being an angel.

Not sure if I follow you.

Do you remember reading where I told you that your state of mind, what you think of yourself, your moods,etc, shows on your face? I'll bet not.

I stand on what I've said before; It's your negative, argumentative attitude, your neediness that's a turn-off. NOT your looks. If your attitude changed to a more positive one, it would show on your face and you'd be more attractive physically as well as mentally.

BTW, I haven't seen you answer any of the exercise questions or even make a comment about them. I'm willing to bet that you haven't even looked at any of them. What do you want, Gary? For us to lie to you and agree that you're the ugliest man we've ever seen and that we wouldn't give you the time of day, either? Would that make you happy? Would that satisfy you? Don't look for it from me! I'm not a liar. I say things the way I see them.

I'm glad you view me that way. I try my best.

I can personally vouch for 'neediness' being a turn-off from my own experiences.

so far he, isolated guy, has been immune to everything that we've told him or suggested that he do to help himself. i think he even has a pattern..developed so that he can receive more attention. i seriously doubt that he read what you so thoughtfully posted. that would mean that he'd have to interact, as an adult, and actually receive the wonderful help that you've offered. I'm officially off his case and will use the "ignore" feature from now on. and i do appreciate what you've done. pat ps. i've already said it..but some people just love that misery and hold it closely to their chest and GUARD it from all "intruders".....i think we have us one here,boys, as Tom Petty would say.......

Tomi, I've read everything posted.

I reserve comment only because it isn't what you want to hear.

On attitude, it once again gets back to the chicken and egg question.

My opinion on my appearance originated somewhere, right?

We all start with a clean slate in childhood and, as I've stated, mine was good. I had high self esteem before I reached puberty, had many friends, and I wasn't a bad looking kid.

Did things ever change during and after the teen years.

I was constantly teased and abused verbally and sometimes beaten up by the other kids. I was always called nasty names which refer to my appearance.

These comments hardly stopped after high school and continue to this day.

Here's just one of many examples. I was minding my own business and in a pretty goood mood while waiting at a traffic light. Two women were in the car next to me with their windows also rolled down. One said "Hey, he's cute!" the other said "Yeah, but compared to WHAT?" They both started laughing like crazy. I took my half finished Slurpee and threw it all over them. They sure weren't laughing anymore but they deserved it for being so cruel.

I'm just supposed to have a good attitude??????

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Did things ever change during and after the teen years.

I was constantly teased and abused verbally and sometimes beaten up by the other kids. I was always called nasty names which refer to my appearance.

These comments hardly stopped after high school and continue to this day.

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I have experienced the same thing, yet I think I have good self-esteem...most times. I have things that upset me like anyone else...and eventually, I just chalk it up to the other person's loss.

How is your experience different than mine?

And don't give me the "never received affection" excuse. I had never held hands with a boy/guy/man until I met my husband.

All I really hope for, Gary, is that you'd do some of the exercises, but you won't. I don't expect any certain words or actions out of you except to TRY. You don't want to do that. You won't seek counceling much less take medication. You won't accept that your neighbor could possibly like you as a friend.

You argued with the premise in "Beauty" not taking into account that it was written by a woman that has her PhD in psycology. I know her personally and she's NOT pretty, yet she's successful both career-wise and socially. But she's WRONG?? I don't think so! Besides, it worked for me and I'm not pretty! I must be wrong, too, then.

You as good as called us liars when we told you we didn't think you were ugly.

CBT is a successful way of treating many illnesses. You won't try it because your answers aren't what you THINK I want to hear.

In short, you will find any and every excuse to not work your way out of your misery and loneliness.

So again, I ask you; What do you want?

Isolated Guy... I too suffered HORRIBLE teasing through out school, however, when I went to college, I decided I was going to change that! You know what works? IGNORE THEM! Who the hell cares about what people say about you, they just want to get a rise out of you. And if they give you a hard time just walk away and don't give them the time of day! Also, I know people who are not the most attractive and they've had many partners and friends. I'm pretty much a longer and you consider me pretty. Looks aren't everything. I don't know what you want and maybe you don't even know yourself and I think you need to think about that. Also, I agree with what someone said what you are thinking shows on your face, and I know when I'm in a depressed mood people barely look at me or approach me, but when I'm laughing away and smiling with my friends I get approached all the time. Best of wishes...I hope I'm not wasting my breath here.

1day, you said you never held hands with a guy until meeting your husband. I'm sure that happened at a FAR much younger age than I am now and maybe you could have sooner and were given the opportunities but made the choice not to. There's no comparison to my situation.

SpazKatt, people are picked on for different reasons. Yours couldn't have been the same as mine.

Tomi,I have valid reasons for not taking medication because I'm too aware of the dangers. I don't think that's something we should really not get in to here.

Therapy can change one's attitude, not their looks.
I'd go around with a false sense of confidence and only set myself up for even more frustration and sadness.

There's a difference between saying something nice to another person and telling them a lie, a big difference.

I've since found out my neighbor doesn't like me as a friend. I guess she thought I was nice, as I heard her say but there are, unfortunately, unwritten rules of not even associating with unattractive guys. There's peer pressure even with adults.

What do I want? Just to be understood, that's all.

Do you understand yourself?

Sorry. I guess I will never understand you, then. I have tried and am trying, but it's hard to understand when the person you're talking to clearly has a warped perspective of himself and others.

Gary, you have NOTHING to lose by going to a few therapy visits. You only have something important to gain.

If you think you have an open mind, then why don't you find a therapist and commit to 5 sessions. If, after 5 sessions, your therapist agrees that the problem is the way you look, then you'll probably get a lot more sympathy from us. But, the therapist would have to specifically say: "Gary, there is NO hope for you". It can't be you reading between the lines as seems to be your MO.

Sweety, why don't you make that "There's no hope for you BECAUSE OF YOUR LOOKS." I'm beginning to wonder if there IS any hope for Gary because he argues and finds excuses for everything and anything you suggest.

Like my mom used to tell me "You try the patience of a saint!"

How can anyone understand you when your thinking is so warped?

I'm sorry but denial is no friend of mine.

Once the rose colored glasses come off, they stay off.

I've given sound logical reasons for why I think as I do and they're not being truly addressed.

I'm gettng the same response of "let's just think positive thoughts and you'll be fine and dandy" or I am "warped".

So the severe teasing (verbal attacks on my appearance) in my youth had nothing to do with my looks?

The rude comments I still get to this day have nothing to do with my looks?

The fact that no woman has ever touched me, much less expressed interest in me has nothing to do with my looks?

You know, if we were in a court of law presenting our cases (myself against you guys), it wouldn't take long at all for the jury to to decide. I've presented my case with specific examples of concrete evidence to support and back it up as opposed to general psychological theory and wishful thinking which doesn't take in to account individual limitations and is also based on the "assumption" that life is fair and that experiencing physical love with another is some how a given. People are so afraid to question these things.

Denial ain't just a river in Africa.

Please don't take this the wrong way.

I love the fact that you cared enough to want to help and please don't ever forget that. You should know this is appreciated.

I just have to face the fact that I have a handicap which limits what I can experience in life. I don't look forward to the rest of what's left of life and I grow more and more depressed now but what is IS.

I've been thinking while I've been off line. It's the end of the day and I'm exhausted. I'll answer you in the morning, ok?

There ARE some things I understand that you mention.

If you can't be helped then why are you here?