[Trippin2.0]

I've always been spiritual, even before I knew what it meant. Had meetings with Jesus since age 3, believed an angel watched me fall asleep till I was 12...
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That being said, I was hugely dissapointed in myself when at age 15 when I gave my life to Christ and then backsliding and recomitting 10yrs later I realized that I couldn't submit to God's will. Even today, I cannot fathom submission, and lastnight I discovered why...
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I was 9 when my 18y.o brother molested me, I won't go into detail,bcoz frankly I don't care to. I don't know how long it went on, the memories are thankfully repressed, I do know that he thought I was asleep. I remember waking up, telling myself not to panic, not to scream coz he'd get into trouble and my family would be turned upside down. I made a point of sleeping in pj's instead of a nightgown hoping it would be 2 much trouble for him, I'm not sure it worked. 1 night I had a lightbulb moment in getting out of the situation without hurting anybody. I pretended to wake up, then he ran away, Idk how many times I had to pretend. All I do know is, being 9y.o was erased from my memory bank. Idk who my teacher was that yr, my bff, what I did for my bday, and these are things I can recall for every other yr.
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The 1st time I remembered the abuse I was 18, by then my brother and I had what you could call a normal relationship, he was saved, encouraged me to attend church with him, so I chalked his past behaviour up to the fact that he was actively involved in satanism in that time, bcoz I HAD to move past this, for me, for everyone. I prayed and prayed and God allowed me to forgive him. He lives overseas now and I don't see him often, but I do my best to have a relationship with him. Why? I honestly don't know. Maybe I don't see the point in tearing my family apart after all we've had to endure recently( my eldest brother murdered my dad died soon after).
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Anyway, I can't submit to God's will, it makes me feel trapped, I get panicked and end up defying Him. I always ask 'but why doesn't what I want matter?" and no amount of mentoring has ever made submission ok in my mind, not even to God. And the truth is, I can't ever submit to anybody else's will. Bcoz my 1st memory of submission was me keeping quiet, to spare everybody, including my abuser.
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It hurts, to know that he is the reason I can never obey God completely, it's always on my terms, and where's the Christianity in that? It's like I can only go so far, not a step further...
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Anyhoo, just wanted to put that out there, it's not like I can actually tell someone irl.
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If you read all of that, thank you, it's appreciated.XOXO

[Open Eyes]

Trippen, if you were to really think about GOOD verses EVIL. When EVIL happens so many people think that GOD/GOOD was not there or allowed it to happen to them.

But you have to consider EVIL/ Abusers and the goal of evil is to keep us believing that God has failed us so that we cannot commit ourselves to the GOOD we do deserve.

Some faiths talk about God being everywhere and he is also in us. Well if that is really true and there is EVIL/SATAN as well, that would be the one place he would block our ability to accept the GOD/GOOD in us.

Yes, it can become an internal battle just like what you are discribing within yourself, but think about it and what are you allowing to happen? Well, if there is truely EVIL/Satan, that is eactly what he wants to happen. He would want us to punish that GOD/GOOD in us because if it is true and he wants our souls, he will have a much better chance of getting what he wants.

The Good/God in you sat up to stop the EVIL. Maybe the GOD/Good in you blocks memories because it at least give GOOD/GOD a chance. But the EVIL/DEVIL is there also trying to lift the lock on EVIL to gain power again over the GOOD/GOD within.

While it is work, you CAN work on the GOD/GOOD coming out in you, yes it is there and you CAN make it stronger. You CAN make a choice to not allow the DEVIL/EVIL to threaten or control that part of you. However, remember he would be cunning and do whatever he could to prevent you from the GOD/GOOD in you from growing strong.

Just some thoughts.

Open Eyes

[Trippin2.0]

Wow... I never thought of it that way. You have a very valid point. Atleast now, if I ever do decide to tackle the submission dillemma, I have a starting point.
Thanks so much.XOXO

[Open Eyes]

Well Trippen, you must not forget that the GOD/GOOD is forgiving and loving. And is always there no matter what, there inside you.

But keep in mind, the EVIL/BAD knows that as well so will remind us to doubt and think we must punish and we are bad. This is always a lie, but evil is cunning and has no other goal but to take away the good.

If we are hurt by others, someone bad, it could be that it is their soul that is being readied for the taking and not ours. But it also works in favor of evil as well because anything evil touches leaves doubt in the GOD/GOOD.

It is important to remember that BAD/EVIL works very hard, is very smart and knows our weaknesses.

Always remember the forgiveness of GOD/GOOD and that it is there no matter what EVIL/BAD presents for torment.

Something to really consider, And YES you have a really good starting point and it is VERY important that when you start the forgiveness of YOU the GOD/GOOD is right there for you IF YOU SO CHOOSE to GIVE THAT THE POWER over that thing EVIL did to you that presents doubt/fear/guilt. GOOD/GOD sends a message we must believe, "NOT YOUR FAULT, DO NOT TAKE IT AS SO, YOU ARE FORGIVEN TO STILL LOVE YOURSELF".
Open Eyes

[healed84]

Let me tell you I can identify so much with what you are saying reguarding the abuse and submission. It was NEVER God's will for this to happen to you or anybody else that abuse happened to. In my belief, things like this happen b/c there is "bad" in this world, we are in a fallen world.

I think, you are looking into submission too much. Yes, God wants us to submit to his will. However, he has always given us free will. The most important decesion I think God wants you to make is to have a relationship with him.. The other stuff will follow. I don't think that God has this path marked out in permenate marker for every single one of us that we have to follow to a T. No, I think as we develop in relationship with Him. Reading the Bible, praying, worshipping, fellowshipping with other believers.. His will becomes clear.. I think we naturally just start to follow in it as we develop in relationship w/Him.

This is all my own beliefs.. I hope I could just give you a different insight to your questions and concerns. Hang in there!!

[Trippin2.0]

Open eyes:Thank you so much for giving me your perspective
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Healed: to me, Christianity is defined as having a relationship with God. Not how many times you go to church or whatever else. That being said, I don't understand how to submit and have free will. Believe me, people have tried to explain it to me, so while I don't think I'm a terrible Christian, I do believe this inability has robbed me in some spiritual way. Like what if I was supposed to do something great for cause of Christ, and now I can't bcoz of this?? I've stopped enquiring about submission v.s freewill to spiritual mentors bcoz they can't understand my stance without full disclosure...
Your insight is appreciated.XOXO

[Open Eyes]

It is often made tooo difficult, keep it simple this is about YOU and YOUR OWN personal spiritual relationship. It has to begin with the SELF and then we can share our strength.

To me, all this discussion/debate regarding different faiths is SO unnecessary. Sometimes I feel like it is more about power and that would be the human error element.

The real BASIC message is often lost and confusing, sadly so. So boiling it down the the basics is much better and what all of it is really about anyway. We share our own strength and love with each other and the main message is about ALLOWING OURSELVES TO MAINTAIN THAT GOD/GOOD THAT IS IN EACH OF US. We CAN be forgiven and though we may be tested in many ways, we can be forgiven, and we can embrace the GOD/GOOD within ALWAYS.

We cannot do it for others, all we can do is show them how we have learned to do it for ourselves as best as we can. It really is a personal choice. And that is where the free will comes in that confuses so many.
And as far as you providing and servicing your faith, well, that has to begin with self love and finding the part of you that is best designed to contribute something. It could be art, music, writing, psychology, teaching and the list is endless.

And you have to remember that for every place we find good, there will also be a potential for bad. Every person is tested by BAD, no one is pure from that and what we do with that is what is important and we must remember the good and all that it entails which is the free will to forgive ourselves, learn and continue on.

Open Eyes

[Open Eyes]

Trippen, you got me thinking a lot yesterday and it actually reminded me to think about my own spirituality along with my personal experiences.

I can understand how you struggle actually. As I think back about my own history with Christianity starting in my childhood, well I was a lot like you actually. When I was little the overall message I got from my exposure to religion was that if I was good then I would be loved by others and even this man in the sky everyone talks about. And then I somehow kept remembering that I was given permission to be loved by whom many call the "son of god". And my father did explain some things to me as well because he taught sunday school for a while and he was very spritual and brought prayers to our dinner table every night to remind us to be thankful every day.

Well, when my dad was teaching sunday school classes and we went to church every Sunday, I grew to love church. And my home life was very confusing to me growing up and both my older siblings sexually abused me and were constantly trying to control me too. But somehow Trippen, I just considered the church a safe place. And that is what children do that are troubled and abused, they try to find safe places and ways to somehow please and find ways to feel safe in that pleasing as well.

Well, one year the church didn't ask my dad to come back and teach Sunday school and I can still remember sitting at the dinner table and listening to my parents discuss it. My dad was very hurt because the church didn't even thank him for his efforts to devote his time and I think that was the first time I heard the word political. And then it was decided that we would no longer go to church anymore. And I tried to understand that and the overall message I got from my mom was that my father didn't care for the minister either because he felt he didn't really know the Bible very well. Well my dad studied the Bible alot and from what I understand he started doing that while he was in the service. And now I think it was his way of trying to understand WAR and the bad that he had to see. And I found out later on that my dad was truely surprised that he even survived the war. He had been on a ship and was very young and at the lowest rank and was really treated poorly. He requested a transfer and the other men kept telling him it was a waste of time and that he would never get the transfer. But he did get the transfer and after he left that ship, it was hit by a torpedo and the whole compartment where he stayed with a lot men got hit and all the men he knew were killed. And now that I look back, a big part of my father really struggled with his experience of WAR. And I think that he probably had some PTSD too. And his search to deal with that was in his faith and in reading the Bible.

Well, so we didn't have church and that was hard for me because my daily life revolved around being very troubled and frightened and being very controled by both my siblings. And every day was that awful bus ride with my older brother and constantly watching the other children bully my brother and constantly seeing the pain on his face. And even the teachers were mean to him and he was constantly in the principles office ever since I can remember. And my home was all about what to do with this boy that just could not pay attention and settle down. Back then there was no knowledge about ADHD or any childhood disorders/learning difficulties. And I had to learn how to know to run when my brother could no longer control the anger that built up in him. And yet, I felt SO sorry for him too. I really was very confused when I was growing up and I was always hypervigilant. And in my flashbacks and as I remember that little girl, I feel so bad for her, how HARD she was trying and I wonder how she learned anything to be honest because she was always exhausted in school, and the other safe place was the nurses office where I would play sick just so I could sleep because I was SO tired some days.

Oh Trippen, I was afraid of so many people and so confused growing up. But somehow I knew that "faith" was important to have and some kind of "it is there to help". However, I also felt like I didn't belong to any group that was what I knew of as "Church".

And then my parents sent me to a private school that was Catholic. And what I liked most about that was, no bus, and I was away from my brother and the Bullies. But in this school I felt like I was an outsider because I wasn't Catholic. So I was shy and felt like while I could go there and learn, I just was not quite good enough somehow. And I was also to learn that I was on the lower learning level. There were the really smart girls, there were the middle smart girls, and the then the girls that were smart enough to get accepted to the school but were the least smart, I was in that group. And I didn't really realize that I was on that lower level because growing up and all those bus rides that were crippling and exhausting everyday, along with a very troubling home life, made it very hard for me to pay attention is school.

Well, in this Catholic school we had to take religion classes as well and we also had to go to mass. And in religion class that was taught by a priest I always felt he was just nice to me but he knew I didn't belong somehow. So I learned in religion class but it was kind of a feeling of I could learn but was just an outsider.

And then came MASS and the church at the school was so pretty with it's stained glass windows and the special group of girls that sang. And it reminded me of when I was little and loved church and felt safe there. But in this church I was somehow an outsider. And I always loved music and singing and so though I was very scared I got up the courage to try out for this special group of girls that sang at MASS. And I was accepted. But I still felt like I was not really totally allowed to have the permission to feel I was accepted by this religion these girls shared. And I was only there because my voice was pretty and helped the girls sound nice.

So Trippen, I basically felt like I wasn't truely smart enough, didn't really have permission to be 'TRUELY A PART OF" all the girls that ran around the halls of this really pretty old fashioned Mansion that was turned into a "GIRLS PRIVATE CATHOLIC SCHOOL" for the upper crust girls and most of them came from wealth too. And many of the classes I took were taught by NUNS and I always felt that they looked down on me and didn't expect much from this outsider girl.

But Trippen, I think it was mostly my Senior Year there that after giving it a lot of thought, I decided that I was going to give myself permission to take comunion, and that is like telling you a HUGE SECRET. I decided that I was just going to let myself have faith even though I didn't fit the specific qualifications that told me I was permitted. And I had enough religion classes and learned enough to feel that GOD would not punish me for wanting to find a way to love him. Which meant I had to also find a way to forgive myself and understand about the GOD/GOOD inside me and free myself from the BAD/EVIL that happened to me.

I have never officially qualified to be any one religion. But somehow I have grown to understand that I WILL JUST HAVE MY OWN SPIRITUAL RELATIONSHIP WITH "GOD".

FREE WILL? Well Trippen, when I think of FREE WILL I think of the fact that after all those years of somehow feeling that I wasn't smart enough, didn't belong enough, and truely didn't have one real connection to one religion, I HAVE THE FREE WILL TO HAVE A SPRITUAL RELATIONSHIP ON MY OWN.

Forget about RELIGION in my opinion. because that is "POLITICAL" which is what I learned at the dinner table so many years ago. Somewhere along the way, it was all those stories in Religion class that answered a lot of my questions. What it boils down to? Well, there are lots of stories with "Religions and their books and scrolls or whatever". But the truth is that all those stories are basically answers of how many different groups of people gained permission to pay attention to that simple message I discribed above. In each and every one of is GOD/GOOD and yes we can all be touched by BAD/EVIL/WHATEVER, but what it all boils down to is that WE HAVE THE FREE WILL TO BE FORGIVEN AND FIND THAT GOD/GOOD inside us and be FORGIVEN and HAVE PERMISSION TO, BY OUR OWN FREE WILL "HAVE THAT SPECIAL RELATIONSHIP WE ALL DESERVE". The submission that you are so worried about, well, it really isn't what you are thinking that you can't just give yourself to. Because you CAN Trippen and it is a very personal thing for you and you HAVE THE FREE WILL to use it and tap onto whatever is special in YOU and use it, first for you and then share whatever you can learn. That is what the submission is all about Trippen.

And SO, whatever happened in the night with that touch of BAD, You are FORGIVEN, NOT YOUR FAULT Trippen, because you are given FREE WILL to FORGIVE WHATEVER YOU feel troubled about and truely have that "spiritual" relationship that you felt so long ago that you discribe in your post.

((((Hugs)))
Open Eyes

[Trippin2.0]

I had this elaborate response about my experience as a Protestant girl in a Catholic school, but it got wiped (my phones idiotic sometimes).
The gist of the response was that I relate on SO many levels, even finding solace in the choir...
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Thanks so much for sharing your story, it's the 1st time I here 1 similar to mine

[Open Eyes]

Originally Posted by Trippin2.0

I had this elaborate response about my experience as a Protestant girl in a Catholic school, but it got wiped (my phones idiotic sometimes).
The gist of the response was that I relate on SO many levels, even finding solace in the choir...
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Thanks so much for sharing your story, it's the 1st time I here 1 similar to mine

Oh your welcome Trippen, and I felt that about you too. And it actually wasn't until I posted to your question that I understood some deep core issues about myself actually. And to be honest, I think that is present in a lot of people that struggle with what ever they struggle with and sometimes thinking they are being punished somehow on a much larger scale.

I hope you understand NOW more about YOUR OWN FREE WILL Trippen.

((((Hugs))))
Open Eyes

[mortimer]

I hear what you're saying. I find it hard to trust God because I couldn't trust him as a child.

A book I'm reading right now is The Wounded Heart, by Dan B. Allender. He's a Christian and wrote the book about healing from sexual abuse from a Christian standpoint. The book touches a lot on how sexual abuse victims can have trouble connecting to God, how it's normal, why it happens.

I think it would help you a lot. I've only gotten through part of it.

I hear you about having to protect the family. I hear you. Please look into the book.

[Trippin2.0]

Yes open eyes I understand much better now... Thanks
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Mortimer, thank you for your understandin and recommendation.