[dolphingirl]

Is it possible to have been abused without being abused. Growing up, some things that were very wrong morally were done to me and my siblings, but they those never quite fit the "legal" definition of sexual or physical abuse and neglect. Because of that, nothing could be done such as with children's services or court. So could it be possible to have been abused without being abused? Would it even be called abuse if it isn't legally? How does a person heal from it without knowing what it was?

[Ticli-Otops]

Well, it depends. What kind of things were done to you and your siblings?

[krisakira]

If things were done to you that were morally wrong, yet not physical or sexual... it could qualify as emotional abuse

[Perna]

Moral is rather a loose concept; what you find moral or immoral, someone else might not. It could be as krisakira suggests that you were subjected to emotional abuse or it could just be that what you wanted, what your standards were/are was different from your parents or others, kind of like with Lisa on Homer Simpson? Other people disagreeing with your opinions is not really abuse.

I wish you would share an example, if you have one?

[dolphingirl]

He would "jam" our bedroom door with newspaper at night so it would be extremely tough, almost impossible for me and my younger siblings to open, so he could be naked, drink, and view porn. without us disturbing him. Though it was to the point of where they ended up vomiting/urinating in the bedroom because they couldn't get the door open. During the day, doing those sorts of things while he thought we were in another room watching tv/reading/playing/playing outside for me to find that fully happening. Storing those in my little brother's closet or on our desk. Trying to "help" my siblings get changed or "accidentally" entering even though they were old enough and capable of changing. "Inspecting" a gun (holding it out as if aiming) in a small room a few feet from me and my sister. Though he said it wasn't loaded, they were scared and asked him to put it away and he wouldn't. He also decided to play "jail" with us which involved dragging us about half the length of a long backyard with rough grass though we asked not to. His wandering hands. Comments about my weight and my sister's weight, though I'm average/small and she is under-weight. How I've gained weight or my sister "developing nice breast". My sister had surgery and wouldn't eat afterwards, so she lost a lot of weight; my dad commented about how she's looking good now that she lost weight (she was skinny before surgery, she's underweight after it) and that I needed to make sure to buy her plenty of nice clothes that fit her new body.

Well, that's a good portion of it. I've been told by other people that grown men/dads shouldn't be walking around/doing those things with children present and making those types of comments. At the same time when we tried to contact Children's services, they said as long as we weren't being forced to watch, it wasn't abuse and it's okay for him to do that type of stuff but without jamming the door, but we (kids) should have a horn or a bell to ring when we come upstairs/inside/out of a room to warn him. They reminded him to keep those things put up and that we shouldn't be sneaky looking (though we weren't). So, according to DHS, what he did, doesn't meet a definition, but according to others (other family, myself, a pastor, a t) those are wrong things a dad shouldn't be doing.

[Ticli-Otops]

WOW. That is NOT okay. That's emotional abuse. And "wandering hands"? And making comments about your sisters "nice body" and "nice breast". In my opinion, that would definitely be considered sexual abuse. Not severe, but a form of sexual abuse. A good way to deal with it, is to accept that it happened. The next step is to talk about it. Talking about it will help A LOT. But, it will get worse before it gets better. Another thing is to go to counseling. You just need to let it out. But, let yourself know that nothing that happened was your fault, and that you didn't deserve that, and you're better than that. Your father is horrible for doing that. But you do need to forgive him. It'll be hard, but you can't hold any kind of hatred in. It'll make it worse. I hope everything gets better, and i'm so sorry that, those things happened to you.

[Sannah]

These things were not good for your development at all. Dads aren't supposed to be making comments like that, etc. Doing things that interfere with good childhood development are not illegal but they still can have a huge impact on healthy development.

[Butterflies Are Free]

You have described both sexual and emotional abuse and your father crossed many boundaries.

[dolphingirl]

I know it was wrong and can interfere with us and they aren't things he should be doing, but at times, I wish it was a tad bit worse, so it would fit a definition of abuse. Part of me just wishes there was a simple word/name to describe it all. Sometimes, I think that if there were simpler, by having a word/name to describe it or being worse so it fits a definition, it would be easier to deal with.

[Sannah]

I was quite messed up just from emotional neglect. My parents were never abusive and they were not physically neglectful. Our childhood development is very important and little things can mess it up. Many people frequently say how the emotional/mental stuff is much worse then any physical abuse could be.

Originally Posted by dolphingirl

I know it was wrong and can interfere with us and they aren't things he should be doing, but at times, I wish it was a tad bit worse, so it would fit a definition of abuse. Part of me just wishes there was a simple word/name to describe it all. Sometimes, I think that if there were simpler, by having a word/name to describe it or being worse so it fits a definition, it would be easier to deal with.

To name it would be cruel and unusually behavior of a sexual nature toward a child. Things that people do in life don't always fit a perfect definition yet they are still traumatic for the victim, ie you. It's all perspective. My parents made us watch porn... They thought it was funny. To me that's abuse, but not by any definition I have found, but I know what I know.

[critterlady]

Originally Posted by LolaCabanna

To name it would be cruel and unusually behavior of a sexual nature toward a child. Things that people do in life don't always fit a perfect definition yet they are still traumatic for the victim, ie you. It's all perspective. My parents made us watch porn... They thought it was funny. To me that's abuse, but not by any definition I have found, but I know what I know.

Lola, making you watch porn was abuse. See this definition:
http://www.pandys.org/whatissexualabuse.html

There was much more involved, they thought it was funny to play when my friends came over. My mom and step daddy 5 were messed up. But I didn't know any different. You know.

[unaluna]

if it's creepy, if it's "not right", if it's definitely not something they would have done on the Brady Bunch, it's abuse. Don't worry about CPS's definition - children die under their definition of suitable care. They are more defining what is the most wrong you have to do before you lose your kids - what kind of standard is that to live down to? What is the least you can get away with doing? Not sure anybody gets into heaven (or gets a promotion) with THAT attitude!

It's just tiring to live with these skeletons. My partner doesn't understand how I can't get over it and move on.... Due to her love for me.... But I don't even know how love truly feels without strings, everyone has an angle.

Dolphingirl...I didn't mean to hi jack the thread I'll be quiet now.

[dolphingirl]

Originally Posted by hankster

if it's creepy, if it's "not right", if it's definitely not something they would have done on the Brady Bunch, it's abuse. Don't worry about CPS's definition - children die under their definition of suitable care. They are more defining what is the most wrong you have to do before you lose your kids - what kind of standard is that to live down to? What is the least you can get away with doing? Not sure anybody gets into heaven (or gets a promotion) with THAT attitude!

Yeah, I would get frustrated by cps's definition of abuse. There is so much leniency with it. People could still do so much that could emotionally/mentally harm a child without fitting into their definition of abuse. It's also annoying that there are some parents who are good parents, make a little mistake, and get there children taken away. Sometimes I think that there are better (worse) people that dhs could spend their time on.

[unaluna]

honestly, like the guy at the ballgame here a couple of summers ago, he was from eastern europe, bought some mike's hard lemonade for his kid, he didn't know it was booze, he thought it was lemonade. they took the kid, I think for just one night, but still. there was no intent there at all. if any, it was the seller.

[nicoleflynn]

Originally Posted by LolaCabanna

To name it would be cruel and unusually behavior of a sexual nature toward a child. Things that people do in life don't always fit a perfect definition yet they are still traumatic for the victim, ie you. It's all perspective. My parents made us watch porn... They thought it was funny. To me that's abuse, but not by any definition I have found, but I know what I know.

Lola: There IS a definition of what you are talking about (when adults expose children to porn and other inappropriate things); just can't think of the word right now.

[BrokenNBeautiful]

[quote=dolphingirl;2479627]He would "jam" our bedroom door with newspaper at night so it would be extremely tough, almost impossible for me and my younger siblings to open, so he could be naked, drink, and view porn. without us disturbing him.

Billi says: When I was 12, my aunt blocked my bedroom door with a chest of drawers. I freaked out and escaped thru my back window, into the back yard. I stood out there I think for half an hour. I was so upset. Then I went thru the patio, and went back into the house thru the front door. My aunt goes, "Hi, Billi. Where have you been?" She did not remember doing this. I am coming to terms with her doing that and other things. They were "legal", but extremely traumatic to me!

Though it was to the point of where they ended up vomiting/urinating in the bedroom because they couldn't get the door open. During the day, doing those sorts of things while he thought we were in another room watching tv/reading/playing/playing outside for me to find that fully happening. Storing those in my little brother's closet or on our desk. Trying to "help" my siblings get changed or "accidentally" entering even though they were old enough and capable of changing. "Inspecting" a gun (holding it out as if aiming) in a small room a few feet from me and my sister. Though he said it wasn't loaded, they were scared and asked him to put it away and he wouldn't. He also decided to play "jail" with us which involved dragging us about half the length of a long backyard with rough grass though we asked not to. His wandering hands. Comments about my weight and my sister's weight, though I'm average/small and she is under-weight. How I've gained weight or my sister "developing nice breast". My sister had surgery and wouldn't eat afterwards, so she lost a lot of weight; my dad commented about how she's looking good now that she lost weight (she was skinny before surgery, she's underweight after it) and that I needed to make sure to buy her plenty of nice clothes that fit her new body.

Billi says: "Helping" a child dress. Hmmm...sounds to me like an excuse to be inappropriate with the child. My aunt bathed me when I was four til nine. She examined me, too, she often wanted to take nude pics of me in the bathtub, or take pics of me and my gf's naked. GROSS.....!!!! Sometimes I just hate her now!

Well, that's a good portion of it. I've been told by other people that grown men/dads shouldn't be walking around/doing those things with children present and making those types of comments.

Billi says, I agree! Completely inappropriate for parents to do to their children!

At the same time when we tried to contact Children's services, they said as long as we weren't being forced to watch, it wasn't abuse...

Billi says: I don't care if it was legal. If I had been in your place, I would have been very traumatized by what that man did! And again my aunt did things to me that really upset me and made me very uncomfortable.
quote]

I am not a therapist, social worker, or a cop and I have no right to make any assessments here, but it seems like he did something very similar to what my aunt did. Covert abuse. Covert abuse is difficult if not impossible to catch. I think you were abused. Just my opinion and my own experience. I will allow you to judge it for yourself.

Take gentle care,


Billi