For a long time, the fight or flight (FOF) syndrome has been out of control with me. I don't know what to do about it. It's part of my c-PTSD. I do not have faith in the recommended treatments like mindfulness meditation. I take long walks and have repeated FOF attacks during them, so they are not a help. My body is awful, so yoga is not an option. Reading does not help either. Relaxing music - another so-called treatment - does not cure it and often does not help. I am lost. Any suggestions?

[skeksi]

I don't have many suggestions besides the ones you listed, but I can offer that the things that work for me now did not seem to work at the beginning. When T started progressive muscle relaxation with me, I was upset because it didn't calm me down. He said that was too big a goal--we were just trying to relax me a very tiny bit more than I was when I started. When I made that my goal, I found that things like yoga, physical exercise in a contained environment like a gym, and meditating while I did artwork could all make me a tiny bit more relaxed. Over time the effect increased and now they are pretty effective. For me the key is being able to find something that will absorb my attention.

I empathize because I know that freeze/run feeling is rough. It can get better, though.

Meditation does not work for me. I will not try it again. I am not interested in art therapy. Yoga - no way. Tried it; it did nothing for me. I don't fit in with the people who do meditation or yoga either. I hate going to gyms; socially I don't fit into any of them and I've tried many.

The meds I tried to heal it just made me sleep for hours and hours. Still, the FOF did not go away. I am so angry and miserable. I was raised by an angry mother and a father who laughed off problems. Neither helped me or my brothers with sound advice.

There has to be a cure for something that ails me. I am tired of empathy. If that's all you have to add then don't bother commenting.

[unaluna]

Norman Cousins Laughter Is the Best Medicine? For a real chuckle, read the book by his wife. While the poor guy is trying to go vegan to lower his cholesterol and avoid a heart attack, she is sneaking butter and cream and eggs into his meals. It's so hostile I had to laugh. But I'm weird that way. Two of my favorite comic strips are Pooch Cafe and Pearls Before Swine. I still think we should get married. Have you tried red quinoa? It's amazing. Much better than the yellow stuff.

[junkDNA]

u seem pretty close-minded about options available to you...exercise is a great way to work off stress and anxiety not to mention depression too...u dont have to go to gym to exercise...taking walks or going for bike rides is good...i dont know i almost felt hesitant to comment because u seem to shoot down every idea...well theres ways around most things but we just have to be more open to the possibilities of overcoming it

[winter4me]

A punching bag and gloves? Rollercoasters? Sky Diving? (where you are Supposed to have the feeling)
A 5lb block of clay to wedge and shape, stomp on?
Take a wall in your place and paint on it, with whatever you feel like, make it a repeatable canvas---big paint brushes, squirting paints, go wild.

Originally Posted by hankster

Norman Cousins Laughter Is the Best Medicine? For a real chuckle, read the book by his wife. While the poor guy is trying to go vegan to lower his cholesterol and avoid a heart attack, she is sneaking butter and cream and eggs into his meals. It's so hostile I had to laugh. But I'm weird that way. Two of my favorite comic strips are Pooch Cafe and Pearls Before Swine. I still think we should get married. Have you tried red quinoa? It's amazing. Much better than the yellow stuff.

Maybe I should write jokes. Marriage is out for me since I have given up on sex. My body does not seem to have been made for it as I am susceptible to UTIs and all over body itching for days afterwards. Sorry, with my IBS I cannot handle grains with high fiber content like quinoa. I would give anything for ice cream and pizza but am dairy intolerant and cannot enjoy many of my fave foods.

What I really want is a job. Sadly, I will be stuck being my mother's caretaker for months as she dies of cancer and then I have to clean up all the messes she leaves behind. It will be months before I can work. Mom has made my life so unmanageable and that continues to this day and will continue after she is gone. She is (finally) dying but I am the walking / living dead.

Originally Posted by winter4me

A punching bag and gloves?

A punching bag may be a good idea but would not solve much. I have been thinking of taking up the drums.

Anyone have a cure for being gay? It's so not me.

Originally Posted by junkDNA

u seem pretty close-minded about options available to you...exercise is a great way to work off stress and anxiety not to mention depression too...u dont have to go to gym to exercise...taking walks or going for bike rides is good...i dont know i almost felt hesitant to comment because u seem to shoot down every idea...well theres ways around most things but we just have to be more open to the possibilities of overcoming it

I have tried exercise as a treatment including long walks and bike riding - to no avail. I am that ill.

I know that I am difficult and am sorry if that made you hesitant to comment. I am frustrated because nothing works. My ADHD makes treatment difficult because I can't remember things when I need to. I am considering moving to a state where P.A.D. is legal. There are no cures for my problems and they overwhelm me.

[A Red Panda]

Well, no empathy from me here...

How long have you tried all of these things? A week? A few months?

Originally Posted by A Red Panda

Well, no empathy from me here...

How long have you tried all of these things? A week? A few months?

I practiced Buddhist meditation for 1 to 1.5 years and even took weekend intensive classes but did not find the people to be friendly and did not make any friends. Had CBT for 3 years (both private and group) - people in group hated me. Yes, I made mistakes but, frankly, the constant correcting of my thoughts burnt me out and left me more depressed. I tried; it didn't work.

I have been a walker since my late teen years but as I aged and the bullying increased, it became more of a time when I would experience c-PTSD thoughts than a relaxing time or workout. I have been members of many gyms and have not done well in them. At my last gym, I had someone push me out of the way while I was stark naked and putting on my boxers so they could get to their locker. I also was reprimanded when going up the stairs behind a woman on her blackberry. When she received a message she stopped dead on the staircase to respond. I asked her to continue and type her answer when she got to the top of the stairs. An argument ensued. She said, walk around me. I told her to grow up. I am in my mid-50's and no longer enjoy going to the gym. It takes 1-2 days to physically recover and, frankly, I don't enjoy it. There are no gyms that are conveniently located to my apartment which is in an isolated area. I used to be gym rat. No more. I have not had a lot of success with massage as I really don't like to be touched. My body fights the massage rather than enjoys it. I think it goes back to my mother teaching me that hugs are not important and never, ever hugging her kids. So now, touch is foreign rather than comforting or relaxing.

Last year I took up cycling. After a while, the c-PTSD attacks started while I was riding. And, I got tired of the bike path near my home. This year I have not gone riding once.

I have no artistic skills. People everywhere treat me like crap. I recently tried religion but cannot bring myself to believe it; a lot of it isn't true. People were hitting on me for gay sex in the religious group but I was there just for friendship and spirituality - neither of which I found. Ultimately, I don't believe that god loves me because I have too much on my plate and it overwhelms me. I am NOT thankful to be alive. I am very tired of life. I am very, very sick and while there might be ways to mildly treat my problems, what I really need are cures.

[doglover1979]

What do you experience during these attacks?

Do you think they could be helped by meds?

Originally Posted by doglover1979

What do you experience during these attacks?

Do you think they could be helped by meds?

The attacks cause my heart and lungs to constrict. I can hardly breathe and cannot move physically. All my muscles tighten and my heart physically hurts. I will often grasp my chest and have to stop walking / exercising. I feel like I might be having a heart attack but it's really a panic attack. Sometimes I have several a day.

When the Fight Or Flight Syndrome strikes, I will also have a situation where I jump to my feet and visualize beating up the people who harmed me and who continue to harm me by giving negative references that prevent me from getting a job. This happens dozens of times per day. It can also keep me up at night.

Also, I have thoughts of friends wanting to harm me. Consequently, I have ended some friendships where, in particular, the friends were not so nice all of the time.

Meds make me so sleepy that I had to stop them. I was spending my life sleeping. One med did help - Cymbalta - but my HMO discontinued it after 3 months because it was too expensive.

[H3rmit]

I think your attitude about empathy is crappy, but at least you're being yourself, which is good.

Have you tried swimming? Yes, there are downsides to the setting, and i see you have sensitive skin, but I find swimming a godsend at my age - 50s. Very good for the body and relaxing when I can find a lane without a bunch of people in it. YMMV. I have never been a jock, but I grind through and swim 1000m per session. It's worth the effort. The payoffs are legion.

[doglover1979]

I completely understand. The first time I had a full on panic attack I called 911.

With the intensity and frequency of what is happening to you, it would be easier if there was a medication that worked. But I understand how hard it is to find one that fits. For me, nothing really got better until I was on A LOT of meds. I just accept it, I have a lot of issues, therefore I need a lot of medication.

The mindfulness thing. I have learned in DBT that it doesn't matter what you focus on to self soothe, it's that you turn all your attention to it. In an emergency, It can be as simple as washing your hands in cold water or concentrating on a strong scent.

For general mindfulness you can do what ever you want as long as you like it and can focus on it. I like to color mandalas, read tarot cards and pet my dog.

I hope you feel better soon. I have been where you are. I know how bad it can feel.

Deep breathing exercises work well for me, and I can do them anywhere and any time.

I slowly inhale through my nose for a count of 7.
I then hold it (my breath) for a count of 5.
Then I slowly exhale through my mouth for a count of 7.

I repeat it anywhere from 3 to 7 times until I feel a sort of peaceful relaxation come over me.

I can most certainly empathize with you as those of us who struggle with C-PTSD have so much more to overcome. I once commented to one of my doctors that I was beyond "learned helplessness", I had a bad case of "learned hopelessness".

It does feel hopeless, and so overwhelmingly so at times that I feel as if I'm going to simply float off the face of the earth and out into absolute nothingness.

Those who didn't experience years of abject physical, emotional & sexual abuse starting from an early age (3 years of age for me) can never understand the extra set of challenges it presents to us and our healing processes.

So don't let anyone's lack of empathy or compassion disturb you ... It's a long, painful, tough slog they probably wouldn't even have the strength to endure ... You'll eventually find what works best for you, and when you do, you will also experience some of the peaceful relaxation that I mentioned above.



ps. I also found art & play therapy helpful, as well as writing poems & songs & such ... And I still buy myself a Hello Kitty coloring book and some crayons now and again and allow my inner child to have at it!

Originally Posted by H3rmit

I think your attitude about empathy is crappy, but at least you're being yourself, which is good.

Have you tried swimming? Yes, there are downsides to the setting, and i see you have sensitive skin, but I find swimming a godsend at my age - 50s. Very good for the body and relaxing when I can find a lane without a bunch of people in it. YMMV. I have never been a jock, but I grind through and swim 1000m per session. It's worth the effort. The payoffs are legion.

Yeah, I've tried swimming but have a problem with crooked toes that cramp - sometimes after just a few minutes. My body could swim 2 days in a row but 3 days was overdoing it. I used to try to swim for half an hour. In my lap I would swim 1 lap on my stomach and then return on my back. I am not a good swimmer at all; it also aggravated an arm injury that I have which limited my strokes. What can I say? I have a lousy body. It lets me down all the time.

Originally Posted by Pfrog

Deep breathing exercises work well for me, and I can do them anywhere and any time.

I slowly inhale through my nose for a count of 7.
I then hold it (my breath) for a count of 5.
Then I slowly exhale through my mouth for a count of 7.

I repeat it anywhere from 3 to 7 times until I feel a sort of peaceful relaxation come over me.

I can most certainly empathize with you as those of us who struggle with C-PTSD have so much more to overcome. I once commented to one of my doctors that I was beyond "learned helplessness", I had a bad case of "learned hopelessness".

It does feel hopeless, and so overwhelmingly so at times that I feel as if I'm going to simply float off the face of the earth and out into absolute nothingness.

Those who didn't experience years of abject physical, emotional & sexual abuse starting from an early age (3 years of age for me) can never understand the extra set of challenges it presents to us and our healing processes.

So don't let anyone's lack of empathy or compassion disturb you ... It's a long, painful, tough slog they probably wouldn't even have the strength to endure ... You'll eventually find what works best for you, and when you do, you will also experience some of the peaceful relaxation that I mentioned above.



ps. I also found art & play therapy helpful, as well as writing poems & songs & such ... And I still buy myself a Hello Kitty coloring book and some crayons now and again and allow my inner child to have at it!

Breathing helps relieve the panic attacks. In fact, breathing was the best part of meditation. The thought control part was much more difficult and less effective. After a while, I got tired of fighting my thoughts on a daily basis. In short, I burned out. Not being accepted by the others at the mediation center did not help.

The empathy of others is something I get on PC all the time. But, I don't find it to be helpful. I am just not a sentimental person.

I've had T's who tried to use art & play therapy on me. Waste of time. I was raised to be an adult from the start. So, I do not understand child's play at all. And, I don't know how to play either. It's too late to learn - I no longer have the brain of a child. I was raised to be an adult so that my parents could be the children of the family.

[H3rmit]

Originally Posted by unguy

What can I say? I have a lousy body. It lets me down all the time.

Same here, shouldn't have been born; damn doctors. I am a poor swimmer, and I just kick for the good of my legs. Take me an hour to do my 1000m.

Originally Posted by H3rmit

Same here, shouldn't have been born; damn doctors. I am a poor swimmer, and I just kick for the good of my legs. Take me an hour to do my 1000m.

My toes cramp (on both feet) when exposed to cold and dampness. This has been a problem my entire life. I have cramped in pools in Florida in the summer. I cramp in heated pools. I've suggested to my MDs that at least one of the toes be straightened because it also makes finding shoes difficult, to no avail. Joining a gym with a pool is expensive - I've done it - only to cramp in the pool after a few laps.

It was the same with skating. I was a good skater but could not find skates that fit and, even with thermal socks, my feet would cramp. Over the years, my feet have become so arthritic that I've had to cut back on walking. My podiatrist says I have the worst feet he has ever seen - they are so different from each other that it seems like they belong on different bodies. Deformities in my feet make my life much, much more limited and difficult. Believe me, if my body would let me, I would be out there swimming, running, skating and walking.

[winter4me]

drums sounds good, with all the fixings.

[A Red Panda]

You could take up rowing. Or at least use a rowing machine. It doesn't really require the use of feet. Same with just lifting weights in general - it's all arm-strength.

Originally Posted by A Red Panda

You could take up rowing. Or at least use a rowing machine. It doesn't really require the use of feet. Same with just lifting weights in general - it's all arm-strength.

Thanks. I've been meaning to take up weights but have been so pre-occupied with my problems that I haven't. Lately, I can't seem to see my way through anything. My thought / mind struggles / battles exhaust me and take up most of my time.

[winter4me]

It is difficult to get started on anything when your mind is fighting you---sometimes you just have to force yourself to "do" without thinking too much about it. You begin to feel differently as you "do" over time; one of the hardest things to learn, and continue to remember (not saying I do with any consistency) is that you change how you feel after you change your behavior, just doesn't work the other way around. And no one, or handful of things work for Everyone. In general exercise is good because our bodies were meant to move (just look at kids who are not restrained), relaxation is much harder to master; and it doesn't take away powerful negative emotions necessarily (think of Buddhist monks self-immolating in protest, and some of the violent political clashes that occur in nearly All societies of all kinds of beliefs and practices)----good luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
--

[SimonSays1]

My FOF tends to be first thing in the morning. Mostly due to high levels of cortisol which usually (not always) burns off as the day goes on.

The problem with us survivors is our conditioning. With me I was bullied and abused at home and at school when I was young. This constant state of alert and fear caused me to be stuck in constant FOF.

I am practicing buddhism and agree very much that meditiation is very hard to commit to. Especially with no guide and being in a high state of FOF. My only true solid recommendation is exercise. Even if you are out of shape, take time to walk off the anxiousness. When you start to feel ready, speed it up to jogging.

Make a routine out of it and tell youself that your mental well being depends on it. Even if it isn't to lose wieght or become more physical healhty. The scientific fact that it burns off stress hormones is benificial enough for people like ourselves.

Once those nasty stress hormones are burned off, your mind may be calm enough to reintroduce meditation.