[deliquesce]

i have become really dejected about this.

without going into too much detail, there was a period of abuse during my childhood, and then i was sexually assaulted at 21. i was in a relationship with a beautiful girl for 4ish years, but she left me when i started being more comfortable in the relationship to say 'no' to things like sex. up until i found my voice, sex and intimacy (e.g. just kissing) were things i did while kind of holding myself apart. dissociating, i guess you would call it.

anyway, it's been a few years since we broke up and i haven't gone beyond a 'first date' with anyone. not that anyone is really interested in me, but on the few occassions a guy has asked me out and i've been interested enough to accept, things just go pear shaped. i get flashbacks or dissociate or just panick if they want to do anything beyond just hold my hand. obviously not the kind of impression i want to be giving anyone, and sharing about my difficult history on a first date is no fun either.

so i'm kind of at this place where i dont think a healthy relationship is ever going to happen for me. anyone who would want to stick around, i would view as suspicious. there is nothing attractive about me flipping out because a guy initiated something natural and loving, so why would someone want to stick around after that? also, if i really liked the guy, then i would want to protect him - he would deserve better than me and my stupid issues.

just wondering if anyone has any advice . i am in therapy, and in an ideal world, i would want to 'heal' completely before finding someone to share myself with. but i dont think things happen that way - it's the things other people do that trigger me, that throw me into a head spin. so i feel doomed to make a lot of mistakes in any possible relationship with anyone, and i want to save those other potential people the pain of being with a nutter like me .

i worry sometimes that i am going to end up alone, and if that is the case, then what is the point in trying. i wish i was normal, i wish i was normal, i wish i was normal.

thanks for reading .

Hi,

I know exactly what you mean, I too freak out at the prospect of relationships, sex, or intimacy etc...It is a natural thing for us to do, it's a means of self defense...it's because you assosciate the consequences of such acts as negative and fearful, so you immediately back off...

Even though I too doubt I will ever find a woman brave enough to take me on and ride it out, I know that the right person is out there, someone strong enough to want to stick around. Try thinking of it in this way - think of it as how you would be if you met someone who shared the same fears and history as you...would you stick around? would you want to get to know them more? would you want to be there for them no matter what? I am sure the answer to those is "yes", and so if you think it (as I know I do) then it is 100% certain that there will be others out there who know what its like to feel the way you do and will want to help. Never give up hope, deliquesce, there is most definately someone out there, it's just a matter of time.

I know the feeling of wanting to be normal, but we can't change our past...the only choice we have is to turn something so negative as that into something strong, something positive...and believe me, you can do it. Trust that you WILL be able to be with someone securely one day, but only when you are ready and the time is right...who knows exactly when that is but I assure you, it is one day. Never lose faith.

I'm sorry if this advice is pointless and un-helpful...I just want you to know you aren't alone, and that it most definately will NOT last forever...only if you let it.

I'm here if you need me, anytime...

Simon

[deliquesce]

simon,

your post wasn't pointless or unhelpful at all! thank you so much for taking the time to reply and give me hope. and also for relating to what i am going through. it is hard to not feel like i am the only person who feels so isolated in this way.

if you ever figure out a quick-fix solution, promise to come back and share it with me, ok?

xo deli

I sure will, but only on one condition...that you promise to do the same too!!
Don't forget I'm here, just a single pm away...

Simon

If either of you find a quick solutions please let me know too. I know what you are going through. It is tough but you will make it. Take care.

[Lee ann]

The way I see it is that our experiences have made us a better person. Without going through some kind experience, one way or the other (illness, depression, a way you were brought up that was different, phsycially hadicapped, etc.) would we really be as sensitive as we are? While I definetly think things were cursed and are like walking through glass what keeps me going is thinking that someday I will meet somebody and they won't be "normal" but they won't be abusive either because in the one hand you want someobdy who has had some experiences shape their life and have different points of views and personality that isn't generic. You know what I mean? But they don't have to be so different to the point were you put up with things. I don't know if this is helping or if I'm rambling but I hope this helps.
Lee ann

[googley]

I know what you mean. Ever since I became depressed I wondered if anyone would ever love me. After I was assaulted I wondered if I would ever feel safe enough to open up to anyone and if they would ever be willing to deal with my problems. Then I thought that if they were wonderful enough to do those things then they would be too good for me and would be better off with someone else. What I try to remind myself is that with the platonic friends I have now, I have found them to be very supportive. I try to remember that I would want them to come to me for support and that they in return (as they are my friends) would want me to come to them. I try to remember that while my current friends are platonic there may be someone out there for me who would be willing to put up with my stuff and love me. While I am single I hope that sometime I will find someone right for me.

I want that quick solution too!

[imapatient]

"i get flashbacks or dissociate or just panick if they want to do anything beyond just hold my hand. obviously not the kind of impression i want to be giving anyone, and sharing about my difficult history on a first date is no fun either."

I've written here about my similar experiences, but to repeat:

I had some abuse from my other in a psychological way related to my body which led to one overt incident of SA. It made me a mess when it came to dealing with women/girls.

I couldn't make the moves to be intimate other than very rarely when I was young. I used to literally shake whenever things got close to that, or when it got to that. Being the male, it was mostly sort of more in my hands to start getting physical and I was so afraid I couldn't really do it. I didn't have my first girlfriend of any sorts until I was 27 and then not a "real" girlfriend until I was 29. Even being asked out the once it happened (from a female--I'm straight; gay men used to hit on me when I was young)--I shook in trying to answer. I could reject gay men--usually implied than direct--without a problem.

Sort of flashback stuff on my part, but I didn't recall the SA incident.

You need to take things very slowly it sounds. Avoid the attempts to make physical contact until you feel safe. Maybe many guys won't recognize and respect your needs. Avoid them; they’re not worth the time if they won't. You don't need to talk to them about it, i.e. you don't have to tell them your story, and just let them understand implicitly or tell them you need to go slowly.

"so i'm kind of at this place where i dont think a healthy relationship is ever going to happen for me."

I was the same way--maybe even worse--it will happen.

"there is nothing attractive about me flipping out because a guy initiated something natural and loving, so why would someone want to stick around after that?"

It's not necessarily loving when you're just started getting to know each other. It's not bad, it's just lust. Someone should stick around because not everyone can get physical as soon as other people.

"also, if i really liked the guy, then i would want to protect him - he would deserve better than me and my stupid issues."

Protect him from what? Your issues aren't stupid; being a victim of SA isn't stupid.

"i worry sometimes that i am going to end up alone, and if that is the case, then what is the point in trying."

You try because you can change. You try because you want relationships. You try because you can't hurt another person by sharing the bad things you've experienced.

"in an ideal world, i would want to 'heal' completely before finding someone to share myself with. but i dont think things happen that way…..i wish i was normal, i wish i was normal, i wish i was normal.”

I think everyone in therapy feels the same way about being “completely healed” before beginning relationships. I was/am the same way. Things don’t happen that way. When I was younger I was extraordinarily convinced that I was quasi-modo because of how horribly my mom treated me in ridiculing my appearance. It was very contradictory to the way other people saw me, but it took years of therapy for me to feel that I was at least not the least attractive person in the world. Who knows what other issues girlfriends/women would have thought/think that I have.

Normal is a myth. I could tell tales of how screwed up every woman I’ve had a relationship with is: The stalker (46 at the time), the ones who couldn’t open up, the one (38 at the time) who was extraordinarily passive/aggressive and pathologically unable to talk about her feelings—I had to carry that weight. The one (late 30s) who gave off bizarre sexual signals—even when we were dating—she seemed to have a dual sexual personality. The one (49 at the time) who had a weird sexual history and hadn’t had a relationship that lasted longer than 3 months in the 18 years since she was divorced. The pediatrician (31) who thought that her breast size had driven the course of her whole life. Seriously. She’s a pediatrician, beautiful—a very, very beautiful face and great body (98% of women would trade their looks for hers in a snap), but thought having a 32AA chest meant that no good men would ever date her (thanks Laurie)—that that’s why men abused her, that she suffered from having a bad career because men didn’t want her around—she’s a DOCTOR…how much more successful could she have been? (a waitress might face real harmful to her job discrimination that way, a receptionist might face negative, open abusive comments for guys in her office; a Dr. isn’t about to lose out on a fellowship because she was flat-chested--but that's what she thought.). She was so screwed up because of her paranoia. She said no one knew about her issue with it—not her friends or sister. Begged me to never tell anyone else. It was absolutely pathological. Nothing I could tell her about how attractive she really was would get through to her. If I wanted to rent or watch certain movies she’d accuse me of wanting to do so just because an actress (es) had a big chest. Crazy. She never told me about anything, but I suspect her father abused her somehow and maybe told her no men would want her because of her breasts—or her physical appearance in general. At our breaking-up she told me she'd regretted having had sex every time she'd done it in her life (she hadn't had many relationships and no good ones). When I asked her if that meant she regretted it with me, too, she said yes. I felt like a rapist when she said that. My first real girlfriend was a 29 year old virgin. Women I didn’t end up dating, but got to the point where I tried to kiss them (in context) who absolutely refused to acknowledge that their behavior—our behavior—led us to that natural point. They were in complete denial and acted as if I’d just tried to shoot them or something. Women who vacillate between wanting to be involved or even go on a date to no end. One that I asked out, who kept cancelling on me, then after we went out once, said she wanted to go out again, then kept playing phone tag and cancelling on me and just didn’t show once. I then dropped the effort. She was a friend of my sisters and asked her why I’d quit calling. My sister said she played games with guys “testing” them to see if they’d keep after her for a long time so she could know they were serious. The one with cystic fibrosis who was drop-dead gorgeous but was convinced she was the ugliest woman on earth because of her disease. There are more.

You’d never know these things unless you got close enough to them. The seemed perfectly “normal” to everyone in the world. It would surprise you to find how many people have serious issues relating to intimate relationships—or have major problems at all that can’t be seen but by someone in an intimate relationship.

You are normal. You just know what your issues are that others don't know while not knowing theirs. You're working on them. Not everyone your--or any--age is having the sort of "normal" love and sex lives you see in movies and on TV. We're all walking wounded.

[chaotic13]

Originally Posted by deliquesce

so i'm kind of at this place where i dont think a healthy relationship is ever going to happen for me.

I sometimes feel like this too. I tend to justify remaining in my current situation by saying.."I don't even know what a healthy relationship is so its not likely that I would find one or know how to create one."

.. i would want to 'heal' completely before finding someone to share myself with. but i dont think things happen that way...

This statement also makes sense to me. Sometimes I get this feeling that reaching out and sharing myself more openly with others is actually how I am going to "heal." That healing will never be complete and that there are other people out there that I am supposed to collaborate with so that we all move a few paces forward.

[deliquesce]

thank you chaotic for relating to my thoughts that way. it helps when other people kind of think the same way.

Originally Posted by imapatient

Protect him from what? Your issues aren't stupid; being a victim of SA isn't stupid.

maybe my issues aren't stupid, but i would still want to protect him. from myself, i guess. i know other people won't believe me, but i really do believe i'm somehow bad or dirty or damaged, and i wouldn't want to give anyone i love something that unpure.

i guess - even if i take a step back away from those thoughts - being in a relationship with me would not be easy. what if i froze up every time he wanted sex? that wouldn't be fair to someone i loved. i would want to give him everything so he could keep loving me.

i'd just want to be a healthy person so that he didn't have to go through the pain of facing my issues too, i guess.

"Women I didn’t end up dating, but got to the point where I tried to kiss them (in context) who absolutely refused to acknowledge that their behavior—our behavior—led us to that natural point. They were in complete denial and acted as if I’d just tried to shoot them or something."
see, i think this might be me. i have gone out with guys who have tried to kiss me, and i just freeze up too much and can't do it. i dont want the guy to think he's done something wrong - it's all to do with me - but that's why i dont think i'm cut out for relationships.

thank you for taking the time to challenge my thoughts, imapatient. i find it very valuable .