[eeyorestail]

So, I have a bit of a complex regarding my career. I always did excellent in grade school and high school, got great grades in college, and went on to get a fellowship for a Ph.D. program.

I was in the program for six (!) years and had just started working on my dissertation when my anxiety and depression got so bad I had to leave the program with my Masters. Also, I had begun to realize I didn't want to join academia, which was really the only option in my particular field.

My husband got a transfer at work so we moved to New Jersey, where we live now. Unfortunately, there aren't many jobs that require my degree or skills in the area. I got a job as an admin, but had to leave after nine months because it made me so anxious. Later I scored an awesome interview at a think tank and totally bombed it, also because of my anxiety.

So now I'm a "freelance writer." I make maybe $200-$300 a month, which is nothing. I am fortunate enough that my husband makes enough money to support us both.

I have trouble talking to my family and friends about my career. I hate being introduced to new people because they will inevitably ask "What do you do?" and I feel like a truly honest answer would be "Next to nothing, because I'm too mentally ill to cope with the real world."

It's so hard to talk to my friends about work. My best friend is now an extremely high-powered attorney in New York AND she has three kids. How does she do it? What must she think of me?

My family just worries mostly, I think. They want me to "keep busy."

I hope I don't sound too whiny. I know a lot of you have the same troubles with work and aren't fortunate enough to have a "sugar daddy" of a spouse. I just have very low self-esteem, I guess.

TL;DR--I can't keep a regular job because of my depression and anxiety and I am self-conscious about it.

[tinyrabbit]

You know, I'm a freelance writer. I happen to make a full-time living out of it. I'm proud because I do something I like, and most people think it's pretty cool if you get paid to write.

I don't think you have anything to be ashamed of. I do think you sound frustrated, though, and I'm sorry about that.

[eeyorestail]

Originally Posted by tinyrabbit

You know, I'm a freelance writer. I happen to make a full-time living out of it. I'm proud because I do something I like, and most people think it's pretty cool if you get paid to write.

I don't think you have anything to be ashamed of. I do think you sound frustrated, though, and I'm sorry about that.

I guess I should clarify that it's not being a freelance writer that I'm ashamed of. I really like doing what I do. I put it in quotation marks because I feel like I am not successful at it.

I think it's awesome that you make a full-time living out of it. Maybe with enough motivation I can too.

[tinyrabbit]

If you don't spend much time doing it then you're pretty successful to get what you do done!

[StrongerMan]

I can relate to the career struggle and related shame. Right now I am out of the work force, just living frugally off savings and helping my elderly parents. I am an ACoA so I've always had trouble with the whole concept of career, a future. I think most of it has to do with self sabotage and distrust of people I don't know well... avoiding their scrutiny, criticism and harsh judgment... and assuming I'll be rejected. So I'm stuck on the sidelines, afraid to make new friends, avoiding old friends... isolating. Everyone is so hung up on what people do for a living. And there is a stigma for not being in the right class -- white collar vs. blue collar.. what have you. Some of it is blown up in my head but much of it is real. And I just don't seem to have it in me to start my own gig. I'm stuck. Not sure how I'll get unstuck. Well, just wanted to say I relate.

StrongerMan

[eeyorestail]

If you don't spend much time doing it then you're pretty successful to get what you do done!

That's one way of looking at it, I suppose.

I can relate to the career struggle and related shame. Right now I am out of the work force, just living frugally off savings and helping my elderly parents. I am an ACoA so I've always had trouble with the whole concept of career, a future. I think most of it has to do with self sabotage and distrust of people I don't know well... avoiding their scrutiny, criticism and harsh judgment... and assuming I'll be rejected. So I'm stuck on the sidelines, afraid to make new friends, avoiding old friends... isolating. Everyone is so hung up on what people do for a living. And there is a stigma for not being in the right class -- white collar vs. blue collar.. what have you. Some of it is blown up in my head but much of it is real. And I just don't seem to have it in me to start my own gig. I'm stuck. Not sure how I'll get unstuck. Well, just wanted to say I relate

.

I think it's kind of crazy how much stigma is attached to not having the "right" career or doing it the "right" way...and I totally get what you mean about some of it being real and some of it being blown up in your head. I wonder how much of it is just me being self-conscious. But there ARE judgmental people out there so I don't think it's entirely paranoia.

I feel like I just need to admit to some people close to me that I don't think I am able to work outside the home. I feel a lot of shame because of that. Like, even if I had a minimum wage job outside of the home, I would feel more "capable," if you know what I mean.

I wish you luck in your own career endeavors. Sheesh, things are rough sometimes.

[StrongerMan]

Yeah, self esteem does play a big part. But I just feel no connection to nor desire to be part of the dog-eat-dog rat race of our work culture. The whole process just goes against my core values of being genuine, considerate and selfless. How can I be those things and hold profit above all else? How can I be a teacher and teach things I don't agree with? Be a newscaster and omit important information for a political agenda? Be a manager and force my team to do that which I wouldn't want to do myself, or lay people off to cut costs? Be anything and be expected to sell out just so I can have a little comfort from material things or even to support a family? I don't think I can do it unless I absolutely have no other choice. And not even non-profit or charitable work is immune from it all. I waiver from feeling shame for my somewhat bitter outlook and also being proud that I reject and stand up to what I see as wrong. But sooner or later I am going to have to earn a living among the rats.

[slummerville]

I struggle with the shame and comparison of myself to other people. It's like you work your butt off, struggle with a mental illness, and there is almost nothing to show for it. When my thoughts become shaming and then I measure myself up with other people, I become more and more depressed. Most of the time I can catch myself in this thinking pattern and try and reinforce in my head that these people do not have the same obstacles as myself, I've worked hard for what I have and it's that much harder for me. Sometimes, just getting up and out of bed is such a struggle that when you do, it's an accomplishment you can only share with yourself as most just don't get it.

I feel for you, though. Keep up the writing, that's awesome in and of itself.

[SharonSharonSharon]

Originally Posted by krminnj

So now I'm a "freelance writer." I make maybe $200-$300 a month, which is nothing. I am fortunate enough that my husband makes enough money to support us both.

It's so hard to talk to my friends about work. My best friend is now an extremely high-powered attorney in New York AND she has three kids. How does she do it? What must she think of me?

Well, I bet that your high-powered attorney friend has never been paid to write, nor would she know how to approach an editor to sell an article.! It is more difficult to get your work published than most people realize.

Be proud to be a freelance writer! Depending on where you are being published, millions of people may see your work. I was a freelance writer for about five years when my kids were younger and I wanted to work from home to balance work and family life. Once you are able to put more time into it, you will make more than $200-$300 per month. But for now, since it sounds like you don't need to make a higher income, you have the option to focus on your health. You are very fortunate.

I am on SSDI so you are doing better than me! I think it's all a matter of perspective. I have a friend who is a freelance writer. She also does a lot of community work, e.g., works in community gardens for no pay to help the local environment and keep the neighborhood presentable. I have a lot of respect for her. She also paints and draws - things I cannot do. In short, she has talents.

As a writer, you have a lot of options. There is your freelance work. But, you can also use your years of education to write books whether they be scholarly or not. You can write them at your own pace so that they hopefully do not cause your anxiety to flare up. Maybe you could start with short stories. Who knows? You might end up a published author! It may also be possible to contact your school and inquire if might complete your degree via correspondence. I think that would give you a sense of accomplishment and would be good for your confidence.

[eeyorestail]

Yeah, self esteem does play a big part. But I just feel no connection to nor desire to be part of the dog-eat-dog rat race of our work culture. The whole process just goes against my core values of being genuine, considerate and selfless. How can I be those things and hold profit above all else? How can I be a teacher and teach things I don't agree with? Be a newscaster and omit important information for a political agenda? Be a manager and force my team to do that which I wouldn't want to do myself, or lay people off to cut costs? Be anything and be expected to sell out just so I can have a little comfort from material things or even to support a family? I don't think I can do it unless I absolutely have no other choice. And not even non-profit or charitable work is immune from it all. I waiver from feeling shame for my somewhat bitter outlook and also being proud that I reject and stand up to what I see as wrong. But sooner or later I am going to have to earn a living among the rats.

I feel the way you do about some of the jobs I've held in the past--and even some jobs my husband has held! But I don't think they are all bad. I think it IS possible to find something that doesn't compromise your ethics. I have a feeling that someone as dedicated to standing up for what is right as you will find something that doesn't compromise your morals.

I struggle with the shame and comparison of myself to other people. It's like you work your butt off, struggle with a mental illness, and there is almost nothing to show for it. When my thoughts become shaming and then I measure myself up with other people, I become more and more depressed. Most of the time I can catch myself in this thinking pattern and try and reinforce in my head that these people do not have the same obstacles as myself, I've worked hard for what I have and it's that much harder for me. Sometimes, just getting up and out of bed is such a struggle that when you do, it's an accomplishment you can only share with yourself as most just don't get it.

I feel the same way often. A lot of other people don't get the struggle, do they? But like you say, it never does help to compare yourself to others. I need to work on that.

Well, I bet that your high-powered attorney friend has never been paid to write, nor would she know how to approach an editor to sell an article.! It is more difficult to get your work published than most people realize.

Be proud to be a freelance writer! Depending on where you are being published, millions of people may see your work. I was a freelance writer for about five years when my kids were younger and I wanted to work from home to balance work and family life. Once you are able to put more time into it, you will make more than $200-$300 per month. But for now, since it sounds like you don't need to make a higher income, you have the option to focus on your health. You are very fortunate

Thanks for this. And you are right, I AM very fortunate. Not many people have the opportunity to do what they enjoy and not worry about how much they are making. I know so many people who would rather be doing something else but can't because of money concerns.

I am on SSDI so you are doing better than me! I think it's all a matter of perspective. I have a friend who is a freelance writer. She also does a lot of community work, e.g., works in community gardens for no pay to help the local environment and keep the neighborhood presentable. I have a lot of respect for her. She also paints and draws - things I cannot do. In short, she has talents.

As a writer, you have a lot of options. There is your freelance work. But, you can also use your years of education to write books whether they be scholarly or not. You can write them at your own pace so that they hopefully do not cause your anxiety to flare up. Maybe you could start with short stories. Who knows? You might end up a published author! It may also be possible to contact your school and inquire if might complete your degree via correspondence. I think that would give you a sense of accomplishment and would be good for your confidence.

Thanks for this! I think it IS a matter of perspective, and I DO have options.

I'm so glad to be able to talk to people that A) understand how hard work/careers can be when you struggle with mental illness; and B) are so nice and have such encouraging words to say even when I'm being a whiny baby!

I think a lot of my insecurities come from things my late dad believed in--he was always saying that we should all be productive members of society, and that women should get a good education so they don't have to rely on a man. I think his opinions were totally valid, but I can't help but feel like maybe I'm not living up to the expectations he had for me. I like to think he would understand, though. My late mom also struggled with mental illness, and I think he knew how hard things could get for people like us.

Above all, I think now I feel very lucky.

[brainhi]

Over time it has been easier not to compare myself to other's career/lives - it does take work to stop thinking like that. I love this quote..

"Your life doesn't get any better than your mind is: You might have wonderful friends, perfect health, a great career, and everything else you want, and you can still be miserable. The converse is also true: There are people who basically have nothing—who live in circumstances that you and I would do more or less anything to avoid—who are happier than we tend to be because of the character of their minds. Unfortunately, one glimpse of this truth is never enough. We have to be continually reminded of it." Sam Harris

[eeyorestail]

"Your life doesn't get any better than your mind is: You might have wonderful friends, perfect health, a great career, and everything else you want, and you can still be miserable. The converse is also true: There are people who basically have nothing—who live in circumstances that you and I would do more or less anything to avoid—who are happier than we tend to be because of the character of their minds. Unfortunately, one glimpse of this truth is never enough. We have to be continually reminded of it." Sam Harris

Awesome quote.

Don't feel bad, krminnj. I have a law degree but am completely unable to work at any job right now due to my depression. I feel very ashamed about this, because I come from a family with a very strong work ethic. I hope your free lance writing picks up. I know how uncomfortable it can be to field the question, "So, what do you do?" Hang in there.

[regretful]

I agree with newgal...having been a practicing clinician for several years, I used to feel very good about my work...now, after a bout of deep depression, I am not employed in the field where I'm competent...So what do you do? I do my best to hang on too...try to keep thinking that I haven't wasted my life...

[StrongerMan]

I sometimes feel the world is made for lions and tigers and I am more like a gazelle. Well, more like some less gregarious creature I guess. I'm tired of the competition, scrutiny, comparison, criticism... I am not better, smarter or more deserving of a good career or job than anyone else. But to get those, you must prove you ARE. You must leave those other just as deserving (or more) people in your dust or wake. I once was offered a promotion and I talked/rationalized my way out of it because my friend at work was also vying for the job. He was about to be a father and needed more stable hours. How could I take the job over him when he truly needed it? I was single with no responsibilities. Even though my current job was killing me mentally and physically, I let him have it. But being considerate does not a career make. I know it's just an isolated anecdote, but it is also who I am deep down inside. It seems any job or career is full of these double bind situations that give you little alternative but to compromise one's true integrity to keep one's sanity or a paycheck.

[eeyorestail]

I sometimes feel the world is made for lions and tigers and I am more like a gazelle. Well, more like some less gregarious creature I guess. I'm tired of the competition, scrutiny, comparison, criticism... I am not better, smarter or more deserving of a good career or job than anyone else. But to get those, you must prove you ARE. You must leave those other just as deserving (or more) people in your dust or wake. I once was offered a promotion and I talked/rationalized my way out of it because my friend at work was also vying for the job. He was about to be a father and needed more stable hours. How could I take the job over him when he truly needed it? I was single with no responsibilities. Even though my current job was killing me mentally and physically, I let him have it. But being considerate does not a career make. I know it's just an isolated anecdote, but it is also who I am deep down inside. It seems any job or career is full of these double bind situations that give you little alternative but to compromise one's true integrity to keep one's sanity or a paycheck.

It sounds like you are a kind person to give up a promotion for your friend. I believe there is still room in the world of careers for kindness.

[StrongerMan]

Thanks krminnj... Yes, there are careers where kindness is requisite. Take healthcare for instance. But that has been hijacked for the almighty bottom line as well... nurses overburdened by a lack of support staff and bureaucratic guidelines. I worked in hospitals and nursing homes and saw first hand how patients were ignored simply because staff members were not given the wherewithal to care for them. I've seen patients have to soil the bed (code brown) because there wasn't even anyone able to bring them a bed pan.. this after they'd been crying for relief forever. And when you have to go, minutes are an eternity. They don't realize how demoralizing that is for a person. And then they are made to feel they inconvenienced everyone. That is just the tip of the iceberg of the inhumanity. Patients die due to similar neglect, often via infection. All because of executives wanting to ensure their bonuses, and administrators wanting to meet their performance goals (meant to cut costs, not ensure better care). It might sound like a negative outlook, but this is reality... not the stuff of Florence Nightingale romanticism. The VA atrocities are but just one example of a systemic problem. I don't know the answer, but govt. intervention is no panacea, obviously. Oh well, these are the kinds of things that make me want to move up to Alaska and live a subsistence lifestyle of self determination. But I know that's romanticized as well.

[notthisagain]

OP, keep in mind that "what you do" and "who you are" are two different things. You are more than what you do for a living, and you need to define for yourself what you value in life and how you are to go about it. Life is not a race. We all end up in the same place.

Personally, I dropped out of college because I was paying out of pocket and refused to get student loans. Not to say I wouldn't someday finish, but I'll do it on my own terms. I have struggles sometimes comparing myself to others WRT education and career, but, honestly, I'm content in what I am doing. I've done the management route and it sucked. It helps if you reinvent what "success" means to you, regardless what it means to anyone else. It's your life,and you are the captain of this ship.

[eeyorestail]

OP, keep in mind that "what you do" and "who you are" are two different things. You are more than what you do for a living, and you need to define for yourself what you value in life and how you are to go about it. Life is not a race. We all end up in the same place.

Personally, I dropped out of college because I was paying out of pocket and refused to get student loans. Not to say I wouldn't someday finish, but I'll do it on my own terms. I have struggles sometimes comparing myself to others WRT education and career, but, honestly, I'm content in what I am doing. I've done the management route and it sucked. It helps if you reinvent what "success" means to you, regardless what it means to anyone else. It's your life,and you are the captain of this ship.

Thanks, this is really helpful. I need to find my own definition of success and make that my goal.

[possum220]

I agree with notthisagain. It is about who we are not what we do. Some very intelligent people can be lovely to be around and others are total shmucks. My p'doc asked me once "Who is the more worthwhile person? The president or the person who is struggling to get better?" The reality is that each person is equal to each other.

Did your partner marry you for what you did or who you are? The people who focus on what you do and not the caring person you are, are not worth it.

Be your own cheer person. Have a special day each week just for you. Have me days.

Who knows...... down the track you could write some brilliant book to do with the stigma attached to mental illness ??????

[eeyorestail]

I agree with notthisagain. It is about who we are not what we do. Some very intelligent people can be lovely to be around and others are total shmucks. My p'doc asked me once "Who is the more worthwhile person? The president or the person who is struggling to get better?" The reality is that each person is equal to each other.

Did your partner marry you for what you did or who you are? The people who focus on what you do and not the caring person you are, are not worth it.

Be your own cheer person. Have a special day each week just for you. Have me days.

Who knows...... down the track you could write some brilliant book to do with the stigma attached to mental illness ??????

You make some really good points and are very kind, possum. And I would love to write a book on the stigma attached to mental illness! What a great idea.

[Dan208]

I sometimes struggle with my chosen career. Long story short, due to a back injury I had to give up a well paying but extremely physically demanding job, and took a job at a local grocery store. It's a small, family owned store and the owners have been very good to me over the years (I worked there while in high school). They pay me pretty well and I don't have the stress of worrying about losing my job because I didn't make my daily production rate, like at my previous job.

I've always enjoyed the grocery business and wouldn't have minded getting into grocery management, but my anxiety has thus far prevented that from happening. I don't like telling people what to do and hate confrontation.

Anyway, I'm starting to ramble. I've pretty much got it made where I'm at, and I'm helping to support my family, but I still worry about what people are thinking/saying about me for working at a grocery store. Worrying about what people think of me is something that I've dealt with all my life and I'm working really hard at trying to just not give a ***** what people think.

[eeyorestail]

Worrying about what people think of me is something that I've dealt with all my life and I'm working really hard at trying to just not give a ***** what people

Me too. Sigh.

[nicoleflynn]

The thing is if we spend our lives comparing ourselves to others.....we will never have any kind of life. Everyone has issues ...we envy others (which is useless) and sometimes the ones who seem to have it altogether. don't...we don't know what is going on in anyone else's life; it might look......like they have a great life; don't be fooled by outward appearances. Do the things that make you happy and don't feel as if you have to justify yourself or.....what you are doing.