[Misssy2]

I wish I could.
I see my sister in law putter around happily with a drink in her hand.
Cooking dinner, straightening up. THEN...she actually EATS that dinner and cleans some more without alcohol.

I can't ever nor did I ever drink like that. I always WANTED to drink like that..and I have tried and tried...again and again to drink like that.

The last 3 years of me trying to drink like that I have been hospitalized over 15 times. Because this is the way I drink:

The first day..not so bad - I am drinking like her (minus preparing or eating dinner) but I am happily puttering around with my beer. Swearing to myself that I will not repeat the drinking tommorow.

I ALWAYS drink tommorow and the drinking starts early around 8am...and then continues to nightfall...no more puttering around..just sitting in a chair in my living room, only getting up to pee or to get more beer.

Day 3...repeat of Day 2
Day 4...repeat of Day 3
Day 5...repeat of Day 4 and so on. One time in the past year I continued this cycle for 32 days.

My drinking typically ends with me crying out about needing to go to the hospital. Everytime I have been in the hospital...I end up with IVs in my arms and heart monitors...usually need a "watcher" because if I try to get up I will fall. They bring me back to life and usually send me to the psyche ward....this is where I sleep and reintroduce food for up to 7 days.

This last time I drank I managed to escape going to the hospital...I stopped at Day 6...my b/f didn't want me to go back to hospital so he set up house like hospital...for IVS...I had 24 bottles of water instead...that I sipped the best I could until I could get a whole one down....Today is Day 4...I ate my first whole meal (1 egg and 1/2 muffin).

So..why do I never learn I can't drink like her?

I know I'm not alone...so I typed this so that you know your not alone either.

I know that all alcoholics do not have the same exact script...but we are not all very different.

[leejosepho]

Originally Posted by Misssy2

So..why do I never learn I can't drink like her?
...
I know that all alcoholics do not have the same exact script...but we are not all very different.

From Dr. Silkworth to A.A. in 1939: "All [alcoholics] have one symptom in common: they cannot start drinking without developing the phenomenon of craving. This phenomenon, as we have suggested, may be the manifestation of an allergy which differentiates these people, and sets them apart as a distinct entity. It has never been, by any treatment with which we are familiar, permanently eradicated. The only relief we [medical practitioners] have to suggest is entire abstinence...
"I earnestly advise every alcoholic to read this book ['Alcoholics Anonymous'] through, and though perhaps he came to scoff, he may remain to pray [in order to find out about having the inability to stop altogether taken away]."

The difference between the alcoholic and the normal drinker (someone who can drink safely) has to do with whether or not the person has a sufficient quantity of digestive enzymes of a sufficient quality to keep the alcohol from setting off a certain alkaloid trigger in the brain every time a drink is taken. In that regard, one drink is too many because then a thousand will never be enough...and none of that has anything to do with personal character or determination. The alcohol temporarily becomes acetaldehyde during metabolization, and then that acetaldehyde becomes tetrahydroisoquinoline (THIQ) and triggers the elbow to send another drink to the mouth if the available enzymes cannot keep the acetaldehyde from remaining for too long in the bloodstream.

I was sober and recovered for a number of years before hearing those details, but it was by first having tried again and again to drink safely that I had finally realized I could never be something I am not: a normal drinker.

[Misssy2]

leejosepho.....I have that book..highlighted inside and out....and I STILL wanted to drink like her....I went to Nursing school...I know what Alcoholism is...but still I sit here...once again...in pain from alcoholism.

Thanks for sharing the excerpt.

[leejosepho]

The only way I ever got rid of my desire to drink (safely or otherwise) was by drinking, and then along with that came the willingness to do whatever was required for making my desire to stop forever become an actuality within a new reality.

[Liberada]

Hi.
I went to my first AA meeting about 5 weeks ago. They meet on Sundays. I made it to the second one. And Monday I made it to the liquor store. I can drink a 5th a day easily. I've tried buying pints thinking one for today, one for tomorrow. Always end up drinking both.
I know one is one too many and one more is never enough.
I've found a new AA group that meets Monday through Friday. I'm going tomorrow. I can't do once a week.

[leejosepho]

The people who first helped me were a small group that met for two hours every night of the week. Meetings never kept me from drinking, but there is where I felt a sense of belonging and ultimately found someone who could show me how I could recover and never again have to drink.

[Liberada]

I like it though. Or I used to. Now all it does is make me cry and have very bad thoughts. I don't want that to become a habit. I've been in what I call "the hole" before. And I don't want to go back. Alcohol takes me there temporarily. And I'm tired of hiding it. Tired of lying. Tired of hiding the bottles in the trash. Tired of the liquor store employees knowing me by name and being my friends. I'm even friends with one on facebook. Tired of going from store to store to store so they don't know that I buy every day.
I need meetings every day and I need a sponsor.
I felt good after the first meeting. Then after I bought I was too ashamed to go back.
So. I begin again tomorrow.

[leejosepho]

Originally Posted by Liberada

I felt good after the first meeting. Then after I bought I was too ashamed to go back.

This might not make much sense at first, but A.A. never demands abstinence of anyone and there is nothing to be ashamed about since A.A. is for people who *want* to stop but cannot. Drinking again is to be expected prior to recovery, and you did not let yourself or anyone else down. So as best you can, hold your head high and go ask someone there to help you fully understand this:

"As soon as I regained my ability to think, I went carefully over that evening in Washington. Not only had I been off guard, I had made no fight whatever against the first drink. This time I had not thought of the consequences at all. I had commenced to drink as carelessly as though the cocktails were ginger ale. I now remembered what my alcoholic friends had told me, how they prophesied that if I had an alcoholic mind, the time and place would come - I would drink again..." (page 41)

For years I had thought I was the only one in the world who knew I would sooner or later drink again, and A.A. is the only place I have ever been where that problem has been understood and explained to me rather than anyone ever scolding me for drinking again prior to recovery.

[Misssy2]

thank you lee...

[LadyShadow]

For me drinking was a way of life for a long time. Everyone's body is wired differently this is true. Even though I am not completely abstinent, I have managed not to cause any more harm to myself and I found a system that works.

I have tried AA. I had tried rehab, all with failures because I was punishing myself and shaming myself. Once I filled my life with things that I loved that I truly felt proud of the need for alcohol was diminished, whether it be a miracle from God or just pure will power.

I think if you forgive yourself, and not shame yourself you may see things differently. That was the hardest thing for me to do, and I still struggle, but I am no longer a danger to myself and others.

Good luck and stay strong. Lee has some wonderful insights.

[Liberada]

Talking about this with y'all makes me feel good. Thank you.

[emgreen]

Originally Posted by Liberada

I'm tired of hiding it. Tired of lying. Tired of hiding the bottles in the trash. Tired of the liquor store employees knowing me by name and being my friends. I'm even friends with one on facebook. Tired of going from store to store to store so they don't know that I buy every day.

Been there, done that! Thanks for the reminder...It's crazy, isn't it?

So. I begin again tomorrow.

I have quite a few 24 hours in the program, clean & sober but I, too, will begin again tomorrow. The way I look at it is that the first person to wake up in the morning sober has the most sobriety. It truely is, "One day at a time." I'm in no way immune from a relapse. I enjoy meetings because I've developed friendships over time with folks who have the same disease I do. I hope you'll keeep coming so you can enjoy the meetings as much as I do; they really do help keep you sober!

[Misssy2]

Libereda....yes, go back.
That is what AA is for... no shame.
I would not have made 8 years sober if I didn't go to a meeting everyday for like 6 of those years!

Everyone is different but in the beginning some of us need...somewhere to go and "real" people to hang on to....sounds like it worked for you and it can again...don't give up.

[Misssy2]

Originally Posted by emgreen

Been there, done that! Thanks for the reminder...It's crazy, isn't it?


I have quite a few 24 hours in the program, clean & sober but I, too, will begin again tomorrow. The way I look at it is that the first person to wake up in the morning sober has the most sobriety. It truely is, "One day at a time." I'm in no way immune from a relapse. I enjoy meetings because I've developed friendships over time with folks who have the same disease I do. I hope you'll keeep coming so you can enjoy the meetings as much as I do; they really do help keep you sober!

They absolutely can keep you sober (meetings)...actually it is YOU keeping YOU sober by going somewhere and fighting for your well being. You learn so much...and there is also so much to roll your eyes at ....but it works if you WORK IT.

[leejosepho]

Originally Posted by LadyShadow

Even though I am not completely abstinent, I have managed not to cause any more harm to myself and I found a system that works.

With gender apologies here: "If anyone who is showing inability to control his drinking can do the right-about-face and drink like a gentleman, our hats are off to him. Heaven knows, we have tried hard enough and long enough to drink like other people!" (page 31)

Originally Posted by LadyShadow

I have tried AA. I had tried rehab, all with failures because I was punishing myself and shaming myself....

I think if you forgive yourself, and not shame yourself you may see things differently. That was the hardest thing for me to do...

I say that a little differently by talking about no longer "playing God" and judging myself as good or bad or even in any way at all, but yes, all of that perceived shame and condemnation had been needlessly self-imposed.

[leejosepho]

Originally Posted by Misssy2

...actually it is YOU keeping YOU sober...

Whew. Drunk or sober, have you ever tried to square that with A.A.?!

"God (as you understand God) is doing for us what we could not do for ourselves." (page 84)

But again: There are many things said in today's AA that cannot be squared with the original and do not work for the real alcoholic.

[Misssy2]

my belief lee is that GOD got me there...I KEPT IT GOING.
Without GOD I wouldn't have gotten there...and yes, I have spoken about that in AA...got no pushback..

Typically, AA does not force their way on you...it just falls into your plate and you take what works...and leave the rest.

[Liberada]

I'm in tears right now because of all of this support. Thank you all so much ❤️

[Misssy2]

Liberda..happy tears...tears of sobriety...usually when drunk I don't feel.
So I'm happy you are feeling...get to a meeting! LOL

[emgreen]

Originally Posted by leejosepho

There are many things said in today's AA that cannot be squared with the original and do not work for the real alcoholic.

I've read the Big Book dozens of times, to the point I'm weary of it (I know, AA heresy). I prefer reading the stories in The AA Grapevine, as they're contemporary & in the same vein as stories in the Big Book. In fact, my home group is a Grapevine meeting...By far my favorite meeting of the week.

I do, however LOVE the term "real alcoholic" which, if I remember correctly, comes from Chapter 3 (?) of the Big Book. For me it holds much more meaning than simply admitting I'm a "run-of-the-mill alcoholic." There's a guy I run into around the tables from time to time who always says, "I'm ***** & I'm a REAL alcoholic." I never say that, but it's pretty cool & very accurate in my case.

[Misssy2]

emgreen..if you feel that way...why don't you say it too? Because he has already owned it? I kinda get that...but so did the guy in the book.

Yea, the Big Book...went thru it line by line in a 12 Step Intense Workshop...its a guide just as the bible is a guide...just as the FDA rulebook is a guide...I like the Grapevine as well and someone had sent me a subscription to it for a year one birthday....AA birthday.

[leejosepho]

Originally Posted by emgreen

I've read the Big Book dozens of times...
I prefer reading the stories in The AA Grapevine...

In '81 it was suggested to me that I "read, study, absorb and do" what is in that book as if my very life depended upon doing so, and that is what I have been doing ever since...and I was also told, "Do not settle for second-hand information -- read the book to know who and what to listen to even in an A.A. meeting." I never intentionally find fault with how anyone stays sober, but I do distinguish between "the A.A. way", so to speak, and anything else since there is nothing else that has yet ever worked so well for so many. Stories are fine and I do have my own favorites, of course, but none of them ever contain the directions for taking the Steps in order to permanently recover from chronic alcoholism. Those directions can only be found in "A.A.", the book.

Originally Posted by emgreen

I do, however LOVE the term "real alcoholic" which, if I remember correctly, comes from Chapter 3 (?) of the Big Book. For me it holds much more meaning than simply admitting I'm a "run-of-the-mill alcoholic."

From our book, and also mentioning "true alcoholic":

"...the real alcoholic...may start off as a moderate drinker...may or may not become a continuous hard drinker; but at some stage of his drinking career he begins to lose all control of his liquor consumption, once he starts to drink...
"...does absurd, incredible, tragic things while drinking...
"...often possesses special abilities, skills, and aptitudes...
"...begins to appear at hospitals and sanitariums (treatment centers).
"This is by no means a comprehensive picture of the true alcoholic, as our behavior patterns vary. But this description should identify him roughly." (pages 21-22)

The above only describes the physical aspect of alcoholism that distinguishes the alcoholic from the non-alcoholic, and the problem today is that today's AA contains many people who have never even come close to being last-gaspers (including the bottom having yet to be raised to hit them) and have no problem with drunk-sober-drunk while still being self-reliant and allegedly recovering-ing-ing-ing one-drunk-at-a-time. Hence, and even if some of them might actually be real alcoholics, very few ever share any real solution since they have yet to even find or accept one for themselves.

[emgreen]

Originally Posted by leejosepho

Stories are fine and I do have my own favorites, of course, but none of them ever contain the directions for taking the Steps in order to permanently recover from chronic alcoholism. Those directions can only be found in "A.A.", the book.

I agree about the stories & the importance of the first 164 pages of the Big Book. I, however, also have sponsees work out of Hazelden workbooks. I disagree with your contention that, "...directions can only be found in "A.A.", the book."

Hence, and even if some of them might actually be real alcoholics, very few ever share any real solution since they have yet to even find or accept one for themselves.

Pet peeve here...In Michigan there are so many people at meetings who are there with a "nudge from the judge." Once they're off probation you never see many of them again. There are a lot of people who have to rack up a lot of D.U.I.'s before getting even a hint that they might have a problem.

[Misssy2]

I agree about the nudge from the judge thing...I think there should be seperate meetings for them.

[leejosepho]

Originally Posted by emgreen

I disagree with your contention that, "...directions can only be found in "A.A.", the book."

If you wish, I would gladly take a look at whatever else to see for myself...and I would quickly admit to being wrong if that is a fact. However, the various workbooks and such I have ever seen so far have at best only ever been supplementary (also typically missing at least one mark or another) and never stand-alone sources, and even the A.A. 12&12 has no actual directions for taking any of the Steps.

Originally Posted by emgreen

Pet peeve here...In Michigan there are so many people at meetings who are there with a "nudge from the judge." Once they're off probation you never see many of them again. There are a lot of people who have to rack up a lot of D.U.I.'s before getting even a hint that they might have a problem.

While our group was still meeting face-to-face, we typically signed the attendance slips at the beginnings of meetings and told people we were doing so because we are neither officers nor an extension of the court and would never support anyone being forced to attend.