[pinkflower17]

I'm not sure exactly where I belong; I've struggled with anorexia most of my life with occasional purging, but in the last several months that purging has increased dramatically, along with restriction and over exercise. I'm at a low weight right now, but not an "anorexic" weight, so I don't really know which forum is appropriate. I'm looking at going IP yet again at either Johns Hopkins, Sanford (in North Dakota) or Princeton (I have a lot of medical complications from my eating disorder, so I have to be in a program located in a medical hospital) and really, really dreading it. No motivation at all. It's not that I don't want to get better, I do, I just want to be better already and not have to do all the hard work. If anybody has heard of any experiences with any of those places, I'd love to hear about it.

About me. I'm 30. I'm a physician on medical leave from residency due to a life-threatening neurological illness last year. I'm hoping to go back in July. I'm in the western part of the country, not quite the coast. I don't know what else I'm supposed to say. I'd love to connect with others struggling with similar issues. I feel pretty alone right now...

[kaliope]

hi pink flower.
i dont have experience myself with anorexia but i see nobody has answered your post and i dont want you feeling alone. my sister died a year ago. she battled eating disorders most her life. she was normal weight most of her last years, probably the last eight. only really thin about six years but she had done so much damage to her body her intestines couldnt function normally and kept getting blocked and she would have to have repeated surgeries to remove the blockages and parts of her intestines and the scar tissue. it got to where her stomach would bloat up because she could not digest her food and she had to pump it out of her stomach after she ate. she would be so weak she had to use a walker to walk. she was constantly in the hospital because her potassium levels were so low. she was always near death. and then she was finally dead. her body just couldnt handle the stress any longer. she was sorry in the end that she had abused herself so badly but there was no going back. it was too late for her. please, learn from her mistake. she was only 49. i miss her.

[pinkflower17]

Thanks for responding. That's...hard to hear but probably something I need to hear. I too have spent many, many nights in the hospital b/c of potassium or other electrolyte abnormalities (I just got released today actually) or cardiac issues or fainting episodes. And none of it seems to really scare me. Not as much as it should. I've lost several friends to various complications from their EDs, but I don't really think I have a rock bottom, I think my rock bottom is death. And that's scary. Really scary. I don't want to die. I just don't know if I can stop. Thanks for sharing your story. I'm sorry about your sister.

[Bill3]

How are you doing now?

[avlady]

yes listen to kaliope!!!!i don't know if your purging because you don't want to gain weight, but what does it matter if you gain the weight and get better? i used to be anorexic as a teenager now after a son i have no real concern about my weight even though i'm a little overweight and i've learned that food is so relaxing, my husband cooks and food is delicious.

[Fuzzybear]

(((((((( pinkflower )))))))

[pinkflower17]

I'm...not doing great. I spent yet another day/night in the hospital again yesterday. My labs came back the worst they ever have and I had an abnormal EKG, and I just kind of take it in stride. It doesn't seem real to me that I could actually die because of any of these complications.
Yes, I'm purging because I don't want to gain weight. And no, I have no idea why that's so important to me, I wish it wasn't.
I really don't know what to do with myself anymore..

[Bill3]

How helpful do you find talk therapy?

[waggiedog]

Hello hunny and a big warm gentle WELCOME to psych central, and especially the ED support forum. Yeah, understand everything you've said and prob a bit more besides as I'm 56 and have 33 years of food abuse under my belt. I was hospitalised many times over the years but in the "old days" little was known about ED's, it was then called the "slimmers disease", couldn't be further from the truth. I'm now at a very low weight but NOT my anorexic weight, mind you, that's only a very few pounds away. I severely restrict but do nibble at things and yes, I do purge. I had a diagnoses of oestoprosis (brittle bones) 6 years ago and have meds for that, caused by ED of course. I also have crumbling teeth and exceptionally thin hair, again due to DE's. Please don't stress about IP, you've nothing to loose really and you might just extend your life. You're obviously very intelligent or you couldn't do your difficult job, though intelligence shows no mercy when dealing with ED. I too have had major surgery relating to my ED and so very nearly died. After that I vowed to give up ED, but I've slipped back. Darling, take great care, and take heed to what others have written here. Hope to chat again. Hugs n Loves. Xxxxx.

[pinkflower17]

Originally Posted by Bill3

How helpful do you find talk therapy?

I actually do find talk therapy helpful. It just seems once I get past a certain point behavior and weight wise, things seem to take on a life of their own and I can't stop myself any longer. Maybe I'm using that as an excuse, but I feel totally out of control right now. I spent the weekend in the ICU, again. Things really, really need to change, I just don't know how.

[Bill3]

I'm sorry that you had to go to the ICU.

So then that tipping point behavior wise is really important. What is at the tipping point? I guess the question could be phrased as What is going on when symptoms are about to get worse?

[pinkflower17]

Originally Posted by Bill3

I'm sorry that you had to go to the ICU.

So then that tipping point behavior wise is really important. What is at the tipping point? I guess the question could be phrased as What is going on when symptoms are about to get worse?

It's almost anything now, it's almost become a habit? Any kind of stress, any kind of uncomfortable feelings, any kind of physical discomfort. Growing up, my family was very stoic, we weren't allowed to express pain - physical or emotional and so I just don't know how to deal with...anything. Usually something will happen that I can't immediately "fix" and instead of finding a solution for the problem, I freak out and go exercise excessively or purge. Does that answer your question? BTW, thank you so much for all your help, it means a lot.

[Bill3]

You find it impossible right now to cope with even the most limited distress, you feel compelled to respond to the feeling, to stop the feeling?, to overwhelm the feeling? What does happen to the feeling?

Thank you very much for your kind words. :-)

[pinkflower17]

Originally Posted by Bill3

You find it impossible right now to cope with even the most limited distress, you feel compelled to respond to the feeling, to stop the feeling?, to overwhelm the feeling? What does happen to the feeling?

Thank you very much for your kind words. :-)

Yeah, to all of the above. I can't handle anything being out of control, any distress is completely intolerable and any "feeling" I get, be it good, bad or indifferent, I don't want it. I feel like I have to stuff it down, I have to make it go away, I have to do anything, anything in the world not to feel it. And all that happens is I eventually end up getting so overwhelmed with everything that I totally freak out and purge or go run for many miles, something to "get rid" of those feelings. Does that make sense?

[Bill3]

Yes it makes sense, somehow feelings got to be intolerable and these are your ways of coping with them.

Aside from food/weight, what is an example of something that you need to have under your control? What bad events (other than intolerable feelings) could happen if you feel out of control (again, aside from food/weight)?

Thanks for writing back to me. I feel pleased and grateful when I hear back from you.

[pinkflower17]

Originally Posted by Bill3

Yes it makes sense, somehow feelings got to be intolerable and these are your ways of coping with them.

Aside from food/weight, what is an example of something that you need to have under your control? What bad events (other than intolerable feelings) could happen if you feel out of control (again, aside from food/weight)?

Thanks for writing back to me. I feel pleased and grateful when I hear back from you.

Thank you for validating that. I feel like I have to have everything in my life under my control - my clothes are color coded and organized my season, I'm very neat, I get paranoid about what people say about me. I had a couple events occur when I was a kid - my mom died after a long illness and a couple other things - that were completely out of my control and were pretty traumatic and then a little over a year ago I got really sick - meningitis, infections in the bones in my spine, skull and discs and abscesses in my spinal cord and brain and had a lot of procedures and surgeries. I was in the hospital a long time and a lot was done to me. I know it was for my benefit, but it was still a traumatic experience. I guess I'm afraid if I let myself get "out of control" something like that will happen again or something will happen to someone I care about. I get that's completely irrational, but I can't seem to control the irrational thought process....

[Bill3]

Thanks for your post. I am sorry for everything that you have been through. It all sounds so scary. No wonder you feel terrified of being out of control.

You mentioned that the endless medical procedures in the past year were traumatic even though for your benefit. I recently read an article about that, actually, about how traumatizing it can be to be in the hospital and dealing with medical procedures.

Thought processes often are in fact out of control. You know about the pink elephant? When someone says Don't think about a pink elephant, well, then that seems to be all that one can think about! But is it actually damaging to think about a pink elephant? Maybe a better response would be to say "Ah, there that elephant is again! There it goes again. But I know that it won't hurt me."

So let's say that you are bothered by the thought that if you get out of control something bad will happen to you or to someone you care about. How does simply having that thought--just having the thought--actually hurt you? I wonder if you could see that thought as being like an annoying neighbor who you see a lot, and who might talk your ear off, but who does not actually hurt you.

[pinkflower17]

Originally Posted by Bill3

Thanks for your post. I am sorry for everything that you have been through. It all sounds so scary. No wonder you feel terrified of being out of control.

You mentioned that the endless medical procedures in the past year were traumatic even though for your benefit. I recently read an article about that, actually, about how traumatizing it can be to be in the hospital and dealing with medical procedures.

Thought processes often are in fact out of control. You know about the pink elephant? When someone says Don't think about a pink elephant, well, then that seems to be all that one can think about! But is it actually damaging to think about a pink elephant? Maybe a better response would be to say "Ah, there that elephant is again! There it goes again. But I know that it won't hurt me."

So let's say that you are bothered by the thought that if you get out of control something bad will happen to you or to someone you care about. How does simply having that thought--just having the thought--actually hurt you? I wonder if you could see that thought as being like an annoying neighbor who you see a lot, and who might talk your ear off, but who does not actually hurt you.

I actually have read a couple similar articles about how common PTSD is in patients who spent an extended period of time in the ICU, seems to be especially common in those patients who were septic.
Are you talking about ACT therapy (acceptance and commitment based therapy)? I actually really like ACT therapy. The last IP treatment center I was in was pretty heavy into ACT therapy and I did well with it. Overall, I think it's a great idea and a good way of approaching life. I just wish I could be more successful at actually using it. You're right. Just having those kind of thoughts in and of themselves can't actually hurt me, it just feels like they can and I guess I let myself get too easily controlled by my emotions, rather than the practical, logical part of my brain. I did learn all these skills once, I've just kind of given up on trying to use them anymore. It probably wouldn't hurt me to try to incorporate some of those skills again. Especially bc I can't keep up how I'm going for much longer and I'm going to have to learn to regularly use some kind of effective coping mechanism to deal with intrusive and unpleasant thoughts. And, that'd give me SOMETHING to do while laying in this stupid hospital bed, maybe I'll give it a try
Thanks for your insight and suggestions, I really, really appreciate your responses. It's really nice to hear from the "outside" world. I'm kind of isolated right now....

[Bill3]

Thanks for your message. I was not talking specifically about ACT but yes I agree that it is an attractive approach and I hope to learn more about it myself as well. It sounds like trying to reincorporate those skills in your life has promise. If you give it a try I would be interested to know (if okay) how it goes.

One response to intrusive thoughts that I like is "<sigh> There you go again." The idea being that these thoughts recur (<sigh>) but one is not going to allow them to bring about a struggle within the mind; rather, one just sighingly acknowledges their presence and proceeds as best one can without engaging the thoughts.

Do you know the poem The Guest House? The approach is slightly different but I thought it might interest you:

The Guest House

This being human is a guest house.
Every morning a new arrival.
A joy, a depression, a meanness,
some momentary awareness comes
as an unexpected visitor.
Welcome and entertain them all!
Even if they are a crowd of sorrows,
who violently sweep your house
empty of its furniture,
still, treat each guest honorably.
He may be clearing you out
for some new delight.
The dark thought, the shame, the malice.
meet them at the door laughing and invite them in.
Be grateful for whatever comes.
because each has been sent
as a guide from beyond.

-- Jelaluddin Rumi,
translation by Coleman Barks

What other possible ways might you consider to deal with intrusive and unpleasant thoughts?

I wish you a good day, as best as possible while in the hospital.

[pinkflower17]

Originally Posted by Bill3

Thanks for your message. I was not talking specifically about ACT but yes I agree that it is an attractive approach and I hope to learn more about it myself as well. It sounds like trying to reincorporate those skills in your life has promise. If you give it a try I would be interested to know (if okay) how it goes.

One response to intrusive thoughts that I like is "<sigh> There you go again." The idea being that these thoughts recur (<sigh>) but one is not going to allow them to bring about a struggle within the mind; rather, one just sighingly acknowledges their presence and proceeds as best one can without engaging the thoughts.

Do you know the poem The Guest House? The approach is slightly different but I thought it might interest you:

The Guest House

This being human is a guest house.
Every morning a new arrival.
A joy, a depression, a meanness,
some momentary awareness comes
as an unexpected visitor.
Welcome and entertain them all!
Even if they are a crowd of sorrows,
who violently sweep your house
empty of its furniture,
still, treat each guest honorably.
He may be clearing you out
for some new delight.
The dark thought, the shame, the malice.
meet them at the door laughing and invite them in.
Be grateful for whatever comes.
because each has been sent
as a guide from beyond.

-- Jelaluddin Rumi,
translation by Coleman Barks

What other possible ways might you consider to deal with intrusive and unpleasant thoughts?

I wish you a good day, as best as possible while in the hospital.

I really like that poem . I like the way it suggests, if I'm interpreting it correctly, that everything is happening for some specific purpose and although I may not be aware of why something is happening at the time, I should try to be content in the knowledge that it's purpose will eventually become clear. I (obviously) have issues with needing to be in control of everything and I think it would do me a world of good to be able to even a small degree just let things come as they may and kind of roll with the punches for a little while. I like the idea of just trying to make the best of whatever the situation is. I think that's how I want to try to view all the crap going on now, I want to try to see the good in whatever situation I'm in. Does that seem realistic? Am I reading that correctly?

[Bill3]

I think that your interpretation of the poem makes sense and is valid.

I (obviously) have issues with needing to be in control of everything and I think it would do me a world of good to be able to even a small degree just let things come as they may and kind of roll with the punches for a little while.

This is exciting to think about, that you could move in the direction of having less need to control everything. What is an example of something in your environment right now that you could let be and not overly control?

I would suggest that you try letting be with one or two things in your environment and then type/write down what you are feeling about this change and how much you will need to actively cope with any distressing emotions that arise--versus how much you could accept, ACT-style, that these emotions are present and not need to actively cope with them or try to change them.

[pinkflower17]

[QUOTE=Bill3;4346346]I think that your interpretation of the poem makes sense and is valid.

This is exciting to think about, that you could move in the direction of having less need to control everything. What is an example of something in your environment right now that you could let be and not overly control?

I would suggest that you try letting be with one or two things in your environment and then type/write down what you are feeling about this change and how much you will need to actively cope with any distressing emotions that arise--versus how much you could accept, ACT-style, that these emotions are present and not need to actively cope with them or try to change them

Right, it is exciting, it would be so nice to just do something spontaneously for once and not because "I have to".
I'll try your suggestion and let you know how it goes. I'm going to try to be less of a pain with the nursing staff, having to know every lab value, vital sign etc and maybe stop harassing my physicians about getting out of here so I can pack the "right" clothes for treatment. I'll let you know how I'm feeling about the rest of it later, I have to go do physical therapy. (I get to walk around the ward twice, but hey, it's the little things, right?)
I'll talk to you later.
Thanks for keeping in touch, it's really helping me view things in a more positive light

[Bill3]

I very much like your idea about the nursing staff and the physicians!

I look forward to hearing more later.

Thank you for your kind words. I would be so happy to see you get healthy again!

[donnasok]

I too don't realize what this is doing to my insides. I have osteopos. really bad, hair falling out, dry skin, dehydrated, and I go on day after day, week after week without eating, not purging just not eating. I just don't realize what im doin or just don't care anymore. so your not alone.

[pinkflower17]

[QUOTE=pinkflower17;4350628]

Originally Posted by Bill3

I think that your interpretation of the poem makes sense and is valid.

This is exciting to think about, that you could move in the direction of having less need to control everything. What is an example of something in your environment right now that you could let be and not overly control?

I would suggest that you try letting be with one or two things in your environment and then type/write down what you are feeling about this change and how much you will need to actively cope with any distressing emotions that arise--versus how much you could accept, ACT-style, that these emotions are present and not need to actively cope with them or try to change them

Right, it is exciting, it would be so nice to just do something spontaneously for once and not because "I have to".
I'll try your suggestion and let you know how it goes. I'm going to try to be less of a pain with the nursing staff, having to know every lab value, vital sign etc and maybe stop harassing my physicians about getting out of here so I can pack the "right" clothes for treatment. I'll let you know how I'm feeling about the rest of it later, I have to go do physical therapy. (I get to walk around the ward twice, but hey, it's the little things, right?)
I'll talk to you later.
Thanks for keeping in touch, it's really helping me view things in a more positive light

So I ended up getting septic and having to go to the ICU and I...let's just go with I need to practice being less of a control freak. I didn't handle it well. I was in general a pain and I pretty much acted like a four year old so I'm kind of frustrated with myself. I really wanted to handle situations like this better. It's strange, maybe because it's so ingrained, but when they told me things weren't looking great, I automatically switched into this freak who had to control everything and know everything and be "in charge" of everything when in reality I had no control over anything and I still really don't. I don't know, maybe I just need to practice letting things go. I don't know. Maybe starting with the smaller things? IDK. I'm just frustrated in general...