[ihateit]

Wow, did I just *$% up...what the hell is wrong with me!?!?!?

Ok, I really wish I could follow my own advice...but as I didn't, help! Yesterday and today, for reasons unbeknownst to me, I have been feeling really insecure, feeling down, and very upset. Again, I don't know why...just am.

Ok, situation is this - My wife emailed me asking me to email her some figures. I send her an email back, because I couldn't find what she asked for. 45 minutes later, she hasn't replied back.

Off go my stupid insecurities and I call her. She answers and from the get go I have an attitude - grrrr. I ask her, "So, are you going to tell me where the tax forms are?" She, being unaware of what I am feeling, is talking normal to me. Me being me, I say, "I understand that you're working, and you have told me to not expect you to email me right away when I email you (old conversations), but it's been 45 minutes on something you wanted me to do, what is going on?" Bam...there it was, &*$%!!!!!!!! Why can't I bite my tongue!?!?!

She goes on to say something...and I'm getting more and more upset...mind you I am watching my temper, and my tone now, I caught it and had stopped. But I don't get it...I can understand getting busy at work, so wtf am I thinking? This is a battle that didn't even need to start, yet alone be fought! I had told her before, that since "D" day...and if you don't know you can look up this --> http://forums.psychcentral.com/showthread.php?t=89792 this will explain some of it...PTSD, the other part of the explination. So, she has problems talking to me, telling me lies (inadvertently, lies of omission, none really straight out verbalized), and has a huge problem communicating her feelings to me.

PTSD does that to a person...yet when asked, "If our daughter came up to you and said, 'Mommy do you love me?' your answer would immediately be yes? Right?" Withouth hesitation she said yes. But, yet, when we have our talks, which I had been really good at limiting, but recently, last night and today to be more specific, I have been talking TOO much, and I ask something like ... oh, about our relationship, I either have to answer for her, and she'll either disagree or agree, or she hesitates...she says she's thinking, but in my mind ... is she? "Do you love me?" Simple yes or no question. Without hesitation, if she asked me I'd say of course I love you, very much!...she, hesitates, looks down, just, goes blank, it seems, and when I say...well, there's my answer, she says NO!, I was thinking...WTF is she thinking about?

That was my vent...because I know the answers. Yes, she loves me. Yes everything is ok, yes, I am stupid. Yes, I have some weird compulsion, really bad one yesterday and today, for affirmation, assurance. My insecurities eating me alive! I just answered Mr.Mike's questions with what I was doing to not be this way, and then off I go! High anxiety...on the edge of panic, but why?

To make it worse, and again, remember I wasn't yelling, wasn't talking in a mean voice, I was quite calm after the initial question, and even asked her to tell me if I was talking down to her, she said no...but I made her cry. OMG! Someone hit me with a friggin 2X4 in the head!

She hung up and emailed me, all she said was, "I'm crying, I love you." I of course then profusely apologised, told her I wasn't trying to hurt her, that I am an idiot...blah blah blah, it's all true. She said it's ok, but today was just a bad day all around, she's got her period, and she's really emotional today. I find that odd too! What!?!?! She doesn't cry, she hides her emotions, period. She feels if she cries she's showing weakness, she's showing that she's vulnerable, and she just doesn't do it. I was such an @$$ that I broke that point and made her cry, OMG...anyone have that 2X4?

I can only hope and pray she sees this as a minor set back to who I had become, and not who I am, and that everything will be ok. I have to stop this $h17! Wish I knew how...

Thanks for reading...think I'll go into a corner and ... think.

[Mr.Mike]

I understand exactly how you feel. I could easily stir up those same feelings in that situation. And my wife does not show much emotion that would potray any kind of weakness. And crying would be one she feels that way about. Her reactions are usually loud, sarcastic, rude, and is not open to many ideas or explanations that she has not thought of herself.

Mine, as well, does not understand or seem to be willing to work with me to overcome my insecurities. She says she has tried for many years and it has not worked. It has worked, just not to the level or result that she would have hoped for.

I myself am looking for ways to deal with my insecurities. Maybe someone can give us some more tools to try to overcome these problems.

[madisgram]

ihateit, please, please try to not beat yourself up so much. you are developing awareness about your behaviors you want to change and that is progress. you also often give ppl good sound advice. so intellectually you know the correct response. but on a feellng level you sometimes react in your own life differently. we've all done this, believe me. it takes practice and changing "old tapes" that don't apply to our real life and self. the old tapes are replaced with new ones about ourselves and our relationships with others. i forget, but do u have a t? this is an excellent example of something you can discuss in therapy. it will help you learn some coping skills so "the dog isn't out the door before you close it".
here is a post reply i sent you a while back. i think it still applies to your situation. hope this helps:
feeling are not facts.
i had to learn this, ihateit, cause it was getting in my way of dealing with life-relationships, me, etc.
your feelings are overpowering what you have acknowledged as facts about those 2 examples. as a result you are ruminating false facts in your mind that keep you upset. perhaps this is something you can discuss with your therapist. i did that and my T helped me see the true fact about something so i could let the false fact go.
i hope this helps and i explained it well enough for you to see what i'm referencing.

i think sometimes, jme, that your wife gets overwhelmed when you are "hitting" her for reassurances. it sounds like she loves you very much. i believe you know that too intellectually but your insecurities keep taking you back to that old tape.
please keep us posted and remember be kinder to yourself. and i do hope you have a t, sorry i can't remember. i hope you will use this situation as an example of things you want to change about yourself. it would help you immensely. it would enable you to have more peace in your life and to not obsess about things of little importance in the big scheme of things. i realize right now when these things happen it seems so logical but there is an easier way. let us know how you are doing and feeling, k? we do care and u matter a lot to us.

[Locust]

Ihateit,

First off, I went back and read the previous post you cited in this post, and I responded to it if you want to go check that. Now I want to reply to this one.

I sympathize with this, "Wow, did I just *$% up...what the hell is wrong with me!?!?!?" I know that feeling. And since you and your wife are going through a very delicate time, yes, it is VERY important this gets under control. But I understand what you mean. Even when it was of utmost importance not to "rage" I still did sometimes. It is difficult to control anger. As I said in the other reply a few minutes ago, you and your T must find the root of your anger. I think part of my anger stemmed from the fact that it was safer to be angry in some ways, than to be hurt. To feel sad and hurt made me feel vulnerable. I didn't want to feel vulnerable. It made me feel weak and scared. It was safer to feel angry. I felt stronger then. In some ways, more in control, and safe, even though I wasn't. I was not in control. I was out of control, and I was not safe, and people I loved, were, emotionally speaking, unsafe, though I never struck anyone except in self defense. But anger hurt me and it hurt others. Even when I realized this, it was hard to get over the anger, but it helps somewhat, and is the fourth step to overcoming anger, I think. Step 1 is to notice the problem, step 2 is to admit it, step 3 is to seek help, and step 4 is to discover the root of anger, so you can attack your problem from the source!

I also wish I could follow my own advice, but seem to never do it. You admitted anger stemmed from your insecurity. A lot of mine did, also. Anger happens as a defense mechanism against hurt almost, but ironically, it causes so much hurt. I was on the defensive and attack, even when I didn't need to be.

My guess is your wife was just busy, but you seem to recognize this, which I think is good. So, you can be rational and this will help you out.

Okay, admittedly, that convo started off badly, but I can understand. Sometimes I snap over things I shouldn't. But you said, "...and I'm getting more and more upset...mind you I am watching my temper, and my tone now, I caught it and had stopped." Wow, congratulations! This is a great step! I have dealt with anger issues and had a lot of trouble catching and- mostly- stopping myself, especially when the anger was rising. It is a very good sign that you have this control and chose to exercise it.

You said,"But I don't get it...I can understand getting busy at work, so wtf am I thinking? This is a battle that didn't even need to start, yet alone be fought!" Sometimes it is difficult to understand our own motives, but it is very important you figure out why this is triggering you in order to help overcome your anger. Please discuss this with your T.

You said she now, "has problems talking to me, telling me lies (inadvertently, lies of omission, none really straight out verbalized), and has a huge problem communicating her feelings to me." This happened with my ex (he had PTSD, I had anger issues). They are afraid of being open with us because of fear of starting a fight, perhaps? But communication is so key in keeping a relationship running smoothly. You need to talk to her about the importance of this, but also reassure her that you understand why she is afraid to be open and honest and you don't blame her based on past events, but that you are really trying to improve and that it is essential you learn to be open, honest, and communicate with one another. Tell her you are going to do your best to make her feel comfortable and safe talking to you, and then you need to work on this really hard. You have to make her feel it is safe to be open and honest with you and to discuss her problems with you, even if her problem relates to something you did. I know it's difficult, I am not saying it's easy- just that it's important.

I wanted you to know, I really do understand why it hurts you and why it makes you feel insecure when she doesn't automatically respond that, "yes" she loves you. We have been told when you love someone, you just know. This isn't always true. When you are dealing with feeling numb, sometimes you question your own emotions because you are at times, temporarily shut off from them. And with PTSD, emotional distancing is common, correct? However, you said earlier she was upset and saying she didn't love you, so maybe she is just working back up to letting herself access that love for you inside her again, and admitting it. But I think it will come if you just give her time. I know it must be hard, and in your situation, I know I prob. would have been snappy, too. But we have to control that side of ourself to protect ourselves and others. Anger is our defense sometimes, but the truth is, anger will not protect us from loved ones who mean us no intentional harm. All it will do is hurt us even more, and everyone around us. I know it's hard, but I think you have made a wonderful decision, seeking a T for this!

You said, "To make it worse, and again, remember I wasn't yelling, wasn't talking in a mean voice, I was quite calm after the initial question, and even asked her to tell me if I was talking down to her, she said no...but I made her cry. OMG! Someone hit me with a friggin 2X4 in the head!"

Well, I have done this before, too. Gotten really calm after awhile, numb sometimes even, but was still being cold and saying mean things. This hurts others also, not just the hot anger, but also the cold anger. I understand how you feel with the 2x4 comment, I have felt the same way before, and yes, I have made people cry and I regret that, but I can't take it back. I believe you love her. And I believe you have a problem. The fact that you know you do and are getting help will hopefully be your saving grace, and I hope you can fix the relationship and your own issues.

You said, "She said it's ok, but today was just a bad day all around, she's got her period, and she's really emotional today. I find that odd too! What!?!?! She doesn't cry, she hides her emotions, period. She feels if she cries she's showing weakness, she's showing that she's vulnerable, and she just doesn't do it. I was such an @$$ that I broke that point and made her cry, OMG...anyone have that 2X4?"

Again, I understand what you're saying. But maybe it wasn't all you. Hormones make us more prone to crying and being emotional, anyway, and she said other things were going poorly that day so it prob. all built up. Also, she might not like to cry, but sometimes that stuff happens whether we want it to or not. Also, her PTSD might cause her to shut some things off sometimes, but can't PTSD also make you emotionally sensitive as well as emotionall distant? Maybe that was a day when her walls were up less and she was feeling more vulnerable and sensitive? I understand why you feel so bad, but just try to use that to remember to do better next time and to motivate you with getting help. I do understand where you are coming from.

It is really difficult in a relationship when you have anger issues, and when the other person has PTSD, that is a difficult combo. It's just the nature of the two beasts (anger and PTSD). But I think you still have the chance to make it work, since you are seeking help. I wish you and your wife all the luck.

[Sannah]

Ihateit, is the root of this insecurity the fact that your mom left you? Sometimes if you just go to the source it is the easiest way to nip these things in the bud. I agree with Madisgram, you are making progress. You noticed you were being triggered and you were trying to be calm. This is progress. The whole thing ended well too. This is good. So maybe your wife's therapy is working and this is why she is showing emotions? Also, you are working with her and this is probably helping her to move forward?

[ihateit]

Mr.Mike...your wife and mine are totally diff hehe...she's quite, hates confrontation, and well, donesn't talk much at all. She's the total opposite of me, one of the reasons I fell in love with her, she's my alter ego, calming, relaxing, made me want to stay home more and be with my family kinda thing. She also understands my insecurities, but how many times can one say I'm sorry before there is one too many and one has had it? We are in a similar boat tho my friend, and I hope you and your T can help the two of you, as I have stated many times, don't ever give up, until all avenues have been attempted, even then, there could still be hope!

Mad - Thanks again, I need that little slap of reality hehe. I do have a T and I had written down what you said and we did talk about it. And yes, I know she loves me very much, without hesitation she has said it, without words she has shown it, (eg., I was talking about getting new wedding rings to "renew" our marriage and our vows to each other. She asked what we would do with our old rings and I said we wouldn't wear them, she instantly grabbed her left hand and said no! LOL, no hesitation there. You are so right, intellctually I know...feeling overwhelm me, and I overwhelm her, so it has to stop...I was doing well, now, I need to take a step back and do well again! Thank you Mad!

Locust - Well, yeah, I was umm, not really so much angry, no, I was upset, hurt, feeling unloved. I had no intention of yelling or fighting, eh, as I read it I may have made it seem that way. No, my anger, well, it's gone. My T told me it's the flip side of anxiety, my anxiety was her leaving, that anxiety has been quelled, as I said to Mad, I know intelectually everything is fine, but yeah, I let my feelings take over and I get scared. So, my insecurities make me ... ask stupid questions that I know the answer too. Make me question why one would hesitate. Yes, I have done extensive research into PTSD to the point now I am asking her to change her Ts because the one she has is not up to speed with EMDR, and I don't want her to be worse off with a T that won't even tell her she has PTSD when it's clear she does...there is a post in the PTSD section about this ... heh, I post a lot, ---> http://forums.psychcentral.com/showthread.php?t=91119

In there I listed how one is diagnosed with PTSD and yeah, she's got it, but he won't tell her she does. He's putting her through CBT, when all I have read is that EMDR is THE way to go with PTSD, maybe sometimes with other means of treatment. Anyway...

We have been working on this for the last ... 6 weeks now. Within the first week, she did admit that what she had said on "D" day was truly out of anger and was her ultimatum to me, if things didn't change, something drastic would happen. Now, she has told me everything is ok, and that eventually everything will be fine, by that she means her wall will come down and she will need the intimacy we once had. She loves me, I know this...but you're right, someone with PTSD gets detached, especially from loved ones, and keeps their distance at times. She was affraid to talk to me at one time because of the anger issue, she's not affraid anymore, but she's still hard to get to communicate, and that's the PTSD.

I did choose to go to my T, on my own volition because of the anger and the insecurities. But before I even went, something happened in me, and the anger washed out of me, I don't feel the need to yell and start fights, not in the traditional sense. The root, hehe, it's funny you say that, because that is something I always use as well, find the root cause! LOL. The root was my fear of her leaving me, feeling that I am not good enough for her, she's out of my league (really, she's beautiful, inside and out, and well, when I first saw her, the thoughts lol, what a *****, but she's HAWT! LOL...anyway...) which caused major anxiety, and the flip side of major anxiety is ... dun dun dun, anger! Like I said, it washed away from me, prolly because I knew that we weren't going to be apart, even when "D" day hit...she and I both knew we weren't spliting up, weren't giving up.

What happened today was an insecurity issue, I wasn't so much mad, as, like I said, hurt, feelings of mistrust...why can't you say you love me without hesitation thing...email, blech, I know, she's busy and easily distracted at work, so she can't email me right away most the time...but, as Mad said, my feelings take over, eh, sigh.

Ok wow, you guys don't know how much I better I feel...now to communicate with the wife, one last time, coz I need to stop pushing and let her be, I know this, and that's what she's gonna get. Thanks again guys!

God bless!!!!!!!!!

[ihateit]

Originally Posted by Sannah

Ihateit, is the root of this insecurity the fact that your mom left you? Sometimes if you just go to the source it is the easiest way to nip these things in the bud. I agree with Madisgram, you are making progress. You noticed you were being triggered and you were trying to be calm. This is progress. The whole thing ended well too. This is good. So maybe your wife's therapy is working and this is why she is showing emotions? Also, you are working with her and this is probably helping her to move forward?

Heh, you caught me while I replying to the others...she is one major reason yes, my mum, and one failed relationship at a young age, and my 2nd wife just up and divorcing me...mum prolly had the greatest effect on me, and my T and I are working on that. My mum won't talk about it, so I have to resolve it my way, in my time, and really, with the help of my T, it's getting easier to understand and deal with it.

I hope that's true...you're right tho, I do notice my triggers, I just need to stop the reaction to them from being bad, to knowing that I know the truth and to either not react or hold back from reacting off the cuff. As she's on her period, hormomes as Locust mentioned could be part of her reaction, but we have had our problems before while she's on...you might have hit on something there...because her crying is like monkeys flying lol...thank you too Sannah, you know I always appreciate your help and adivce too!

[Sannah]

Change is always gradual. When I was disarming my triggers it was a gradual process. I was sure to notice every little improvement each time that I dealt with the trigger. Remember, this is all a learning and reprogramming process. You will do well Ihateit!

[Locust]

Hi again Ihateit!

I am really glad you are feeling better now.

Again, I can relate to you. I didn't know about your mother. My mother has always been supportive, BUT my father abandoned me. Although it is the opposite gender parent, as you, I still consider that a connection. I seem to have abandonment issues, which I feel partially stem from this. I also have pain from "one failed relationship at a young age," as you said, and while I never had someone up and just divorce me suddenly, I have had situations like that happen with friends, and have had some romantic relationships that felt unstable, also. I am sorry your mother won't talk about this. I assume by that comment, she is in your life again?

I am really glad that you went to the T over the anger and insecurities. What is especially amazing is that you did this even though your anger was, at least for the time, subdued. This is wonderful. It is good you are doing this, because it can help guard against a relapse and if it happens, you will better know how to handle it.

You said, "But before I even went, something happened in me, and the anger washed out of me, I don't feel the need to yell and start fights, not in the traditional sense." Yes! Yes! This has happened to me, too, but I don't know how or why. I worry about a relapse, and need to address this with T so I can guard against it. I have some ideas why my anger went "poof", but am not certain. It is a relief for the moment, though.

And the root, yes the root is very important. Sometimes I feel my T does not address the root cause enough, but all in all, he's a great T. With my ex, I was also very afraid my ex would leave me, and never thought I was good enough for him, either. I think you are right, anxiety does help cause anger. For me it is anxiety, fear, hurt, and insecurity.

You said what happened wasn't anger based, but you felt upset, hurt, unloved, insecure, scared and lacking in trust. I understand those feelings. Sometimes, though, back when I had more of an anger problem, they translated somewhat into anger, or caused anger to come out with them. But I understand yours was without anger. It is difficult sometimes not to let panic take over, but you are very right in saying it is important to let her be and not push for closeness. I know it is hard not to sometimes, when we are scared and dealing with our own issues and fears.

It is wonderful you have researched your wife's condition. I think it will help you understand where she's coming from better and that can only increase intimacy. Also, it will help you deal with issues that come up better. My ex was never diagnosed, either, but trust me. He had PTSD. He believed it, too.

I am really glad you two are working through this, and that she is no longer afraid to speak to you- that is one wall down. You said, "She loves me, I know this...but you're right, someone with PTSD gets detached, especially from loved ones, and keeps their distance at times." It is great that you know this deep down. I know sometimes it is hard and doubts creep in, but hold on to this knowledge if you can. And what you said, I think is true- "especially from loved ones". My ex got so detached from me at one point, it seemed he would have felt closer to a stranger on the street. But I think if you can hold on through it, it can pass.

Good luck once again on working it out! You two have one thing going for you, that's for sure- you both want to make it work and are trying very hard, and that is one of the most important steps in making it last, I think.

[ihateit]

Well, we had a short talk last night, I made sure it was short...again not wanting to push her. I just let her know I was sorry, she said not to worry, it's done and it's over and she understood what went down. She was frustrated because she couldn't explain things, and when she gets really, realy frustrated, she will cry. Yes my fault, but at least it wasn't anger tears.

And... YES! I have found her an EMDR doctor whom I talked to for almost a half hour last night, my wife wanted me to feel her out because I know more about EMDR ... eh, and she's so shy lol. But this lady from what I can tell is very competent. She is of the belief there really is no criteria for being diagnosed with PTSD other than something very traumatic happened to you, and you have symptoms...which is basically what I was saying. She even called my wife's T a quack, saying what he was doing would proll hurt her more than help her. Funny, I called him a quack too lol. Anyway, she has agreed to go!

As for me, I feel a helluva lot better! Baby steps, and if you falter, don't dwell on the mistake...learing said Sam I am! This weekend will be good, we're taking the kids to a working animal farm, just to get away from the house for a day. She needs, deserves it.

Thanks again you guys for all your help and understanding and caring, means a lot!

God bless!

[Sannah]

This is great Ihateit! It sounds like you think your wife crying is bad? I don't think crying is bad. If I am really upset about something there is no way that I can talk about it without crying. It would never occur to me that crying is bad.

[ihateit]

Originally Posted by Sannah

This is great Ihateit! It sounds like you think your wife crying is bad? I don't think crying is bad. If I am really upset about something there is no way that I can talk about it without crying. It would never occur to me that crying is bad.

I guess I meant bad, in that I made her cry. I don't want to cause pain, to anyone, but epsecially my wife. But, not so much the therapy she was receiving, as even she said it wasn't helping but making things worse, so not a break through there, but maybe more trust in me, to be able to cry infront of me, frustrated or not. So, I suppose yeah, it's a good thing.

Oh, she talked to her new P-Doc yesterday! Her first appointment is 3 hours lol...but she's going, on the 18th! I feel blessed we found this woman, I really think this is a better path for her recovery.