Hi ,

I have found an artical that some of you Adults who may be having a difficult time getting proper assesment for ADHD becausse of a trama history , rather informative. Its important to do your own assesment and history past and current of your behaviors and difficulites .

from the Document.

(McCann & Roy-Byrne, 2004), it is vital to educate them regarding the possible confound and overlap of symptoms on these checklists with other conditions, including dissociation. If the real cause of the inattention is not properly identified, patients risk receiving inappropriate and potentially harmful treatment.



Inattention and Dissociation: Overlapping Constructs File Format: Microsoft Word
Thus, it is important to consider the role of past trauma and subsequent coping styles, such as dissociation, when assessing for ADHD. ...
www.sepet.org/articulos/archivos/Inattention_and_Dissociation-revised.doc - Similar pages -
by DVS INATTENTION - Related artic

[chaotic13]

Auroralso interesting article

It is an illuminating artical. I wasn't sure why some therapists were reluctant to diagnosis people who had the obvious symptoms that are common with ADD , Im getting a bit clearer. I Don't know how interupting people can be a symptom of trama .
not for me .

I interupt because I can't hold onto ideas that ccome to me when another person is talking . If i don't say them I loose them .

has nothig to do with trauma. or the dissociation of trauma.
Thats looking at just one inconveince of gettimg distracted , not to mention linking from one idea to the next getting side tracked from the original question or idea being adressed . not to mention visual distractions .. i mean seeing a red chair while taliking to someone and suddenly reminded of thats the same color of my sweater oh geepers I forgot its in the dryer .. kind of distraction . that too is not a result of trauma.

and yes others do these kinds of things in thier minds , but not ten to twenty times a day.

why am i typing this .

is a good question because it just doesn't seem to matter when it comes to ME ..
I went into therapy today with the thought I wanted to just focus on ADHD and would accept nothing else /
gave her the name of the document to look up/

had a discussion aboout seeing a phychiatrist. her concern about me going through a long interveiw .
she then said that the theory behid PSTD and adhd symptoms is that if there has been trauma it alters the brain chemistry over time and that is what causes the symptoms .
and mindfulness work can repair the brain chemistry.

she said She thinks I shoud work on the pstd . She knows PSTD . this is fine but I don't by that this wil help me with my symptoms.

Because Ive been working on all of this
FOREVER!

its not getting better . ( just a reminder ,. I live in my body and my head and guess what .. I know my self .. better than any one }

I just need to find someone who agrees with me )

she then said she thought she had adhd too.

this is great . if she does . but I doubt her husband and children could live in her home if it were like mine.

my symptoms are distressig and cumulative.

and as i left . i smashed the front of my truck on some quide poles . didn;t take much . just a slow bend . Lost in thought . of got to get to work who knows the usual .

so im at my bottom with this .
i am

Al I want is to be given the chance to try the adhd meds . because those ARE my symptoms and they are all day every day .

Im tiired .

i just to try somethig that may help me as its helping others .
why can;t I get it

why does everone else get meds?

why some many years practicing drug addicts get the meds and not me ?

someone whos been clean of all addictions except accumulating projects .

im beyond agngry

im just real DAM sad. and im gonna cry as much as I want.about it

If I didn't share I had a trauma back ground

maybe Id have a better chance at being heard.

Maybe if I had money or insurance I could go to a therapist who specilizes in adhd .

Ive never had either since 1986.

Im gonna keep standing for what I know to be true I won't take anything else

and if I don;t get help then i just will have to continue to suffer..

Patricia

[chaotic13]

Auro, I hear ya. In my case I have both past abuse and adhd. I am really glad I was able to treat my adhd symptoms first...then start dealing with the other stuff. I think I managaed the ADHD well without meds because I had developed good coping skills just living with it. But when other areas of my life fell apart and triggered the trauma cycle, I couldn't manage everything and dug myself a whole. In getting Tx for my ADHD, I was able to regain some much needed focus in order to then work on the other issues. At this point, I've kind of gotten things rebalance. I just saw my pdoc and I'm planning to start lowering my adderall dose gradually. My goal is to return to med free management by the end of the summer. I just feel like I could do it before, now I know a lot more about what is going on with me. If I keep the stress level low, my fitness level stable, I should be able to manage my hyperactivity OK. If it doesn't work out...then I'll just re-assess and go from there.

I will say this... This week in T when I was talking about my trauma symptoms especially the hyperarousal state. My T mentioned, well this is likely even more pronounced in you because of the ADHD. I just looked at her and said, thanks for understanding that.

I recommend that you keep asking for a med trial. Adderall is now available generic..so why don't they let you try it. You will know within a week if it is helpful or not.

[sunrise]

Aurora, I know that ADHD often overlaps with other diagnoses, such as anxiety and depression. I hadn't heard of PTSD overlap though. What assessments did your therapist do for ADHD? Did he/she rule it out with certain instruments? If you are testing ADHD on the tests, then what is the reason for not trying a trial of meds to see if they help? I guess what I didn't like about that article is that it says giving ADHD treatment ot people who dissociate (=PTSD by their definition) is potentially harmful, but it didn't say why or what the consequences were. If a person does dissociate from time to time and has a lot of ADHD symptoms, why not try them on ADHD meds for a week and see how it goes. If it helps, then great! If it doesn't, then discontinue. Where's the harm?

I have PTSD and I am taking meds for ADHD symptoms: Vyvanse + Wellbutrin. These are helping me tremendously. I don't even care if I have ADHD as far as the meds go. They are helping me, and that's the bottom line for me. I can focus better, get things done, not get as distracted. If that is really PTSD and not ADHD is it really important as long as the treatment works?

If I didn't share I had a trauma back ground maybe Id have a better chance at being heard.

Can you go to another provider? I did not go to an ADHD specialist. I went to a PNP. They are cheaper than pdocs but still with advanced training in psychiatric diagnosis and prescribing. Your therapist is not the person who decides whether you go on meds or not anyway. Therapists cannot prescribe. You need to go to an MD or a NP for that. If it were me, I would drop the topic with the therapist and focus on your other work there, on things the therapist can help you with. And at the same time, I would go to someone with prescriptive authority to talk to them about ADHD diagnosis and treatment.

Good luck.

Originally Posted by chaotic13

I will say this... This week in T when I was talking about my trauma symptoms especially the hyperarousal state. My T mentioned, well this is likely even more pronounced in you because of the ADHD. I just looked at her and said, thanks for understanding that.

I recommend that you keep asking for a med trial. Adderall is now available generic..so why don't they let you try it. You will know within a week if it is helpful or not.

Nice to have that validation / acknolwedgement isn't it. I hope you expereince a positive outcome from reducing your Meds .

I am seeing a intern who cannot diagnosis ADHD . She is concerned about my seeing the new phychiatist that has just come on board and my going over past history and what the outcome might be based on the history and what I had experienced from one Pych doc many years befor.
Thats actually "my concern" more so than hers.

I'm not even close to considering Meds . I am doing some reserch on it just in case .

tired tonight.. ( sleepy emoticon)

Patricia

I just type an hour and a half detailed response to you . a few spastic key strokes as i was previewing it ....... and ....*poof *


.

[chaotic13]

I curse the computer programmer that created this new posting system. I get the point of having your logon time out but... come on... can't they fix that glitch! I love when it gives you hope by asking you to log back on... only to still not be able to post what you wrote.

Auro, yes it was nice to have my T kind of appreciate the whole picture. After that comment, I just remember stopping taking a reflective breath and looking directly at her and saying, "thanks". She's been listening.

Originally Posted by chaotic13

I curse the computer programmer that created this new posting system. I get the point of having your logon time out but... come on... can't they fix that glitch! I love when it gives you hope by asking you to log back on... only to still not be able to post what you wrote.

Yes just hit the refresh button or the back key ... Yep!

I have found it hit or miss. Sometimes my post is still there and other times I just get the quote without my response I was working on. One way around the time out is to check the little box on the upper right . Then make sure to log out or you will stay logged in. I think the time limit is there to automatically log out those who do not wish to be always logged in. At least thats my logic behind it.

I like probably many just like to come on and read and when I feel the need will leap on and post. and then vanish , LOL!

I, sure theres some other reason to the method behind the madness of the time limit.

I also try to copy save but that doesn't help with my sudden spastic key flailings that cause this sudden dissapearanc.

I may need to start to copy save through out.

Patricia

Hi Chaotic,

Ill try just respond to one area at a time.. ( lightbub..LOL)

Originally Posted by sunrise

Aurora, I know that ADHD often overlaps with other diagnoses, such as anxiety and depression. I hadn't heard of PTSD overlap though. I guess what I didn't like about that article is that it says giving ADHD treatment ot people who dissociate (=PTSD by their definition) is potentially harmful, but it didn't say why or what the consequences were. If a person does dissociate from time to time and has a lot of ADHD symptoms, why not try them on ADHD meds for a week and see how it goes. If it helps, then great! If it doesn't, then discontinue. Where's the harm?

You bring up some good questions . They didn't explain what the harm would be. They did state that some parents bring thier children in because they are distracted yet are covering up abuse.
I'm sure a few parents are not gonna be pleased to hear this.

If you give meds to someone who is doing both . having distraction due to adhd AND is dissociating because of trauma.
humm

well I know what the difference is inside for me but I have no idea what I look like when they are happening. My guess is that people have " Blank stare" or freeze when trying to
recapture a thought or trying to put things together to be bale to respond.
Or one might have a distant look if they are off thinking about something that is an offshoot of what they are originnaly talking about . that day dream distant look.

Dissociation with sexual trauma is a freezing of sorts a shutting down and maybe not knowing why or the need to supreess whats hapening because one is afraid.
this coud look like a blank stare or an abrupt looking away . someone staring off into the distance and not being able to speack .

they could look the same .

So the danger in that is that is that repressed trauma can go undetected and untreated . I think someone with DID could maybe appear the same way .

I don't know what woud happen to giving ritilin to a child who is dissocitive or an adult who has no awareness of past trauma .

I don't think I can tell if someone is dissociating. I dont think I have ever been around anyone who is . I just think people are staring off into the distance because they are thinking about something and theres no harm in that .
I have seen a person look away abruptly when I brought up a sensitive issue . I think it may have hit home . Thats a form of dissociating wanting to hide.

I think it must be very difficcult to tell .
If you have someone staring off into the distance and figetting .
well
again is the fidgeting from adhd because they fidgetied all thier life to help them focus?

my foot waggs a mile a minite when I read. or Im constantly moveing my feet against each other .
self soothing? or just figetting?

Im not stressed when Im reading most things. some things are yes . Most of the time Im trying to just be able to focus.

So I think this could be difficult to distinguish . And it depends on where a person is in thier trauma work .

asked me this back in 1982 and I would not have been able to distinguish .
but
gosh

is this a correct theory that trauma causes the lack of focus I have now?

I think its up to me really. Its my brain and body.I live day in and day out with.

I think your right. one needs to just be given meds and forget this other stuff and if it helps great if not, no one would want to be on something that does not help.

I do see the need for caution if someone is just starting out in therapy.

Patricia

[chaotic13]

I do all of these things especially the Thumper impression, fidgeting, and the zoning out. I think in my case it was both the ADHD an anxiety. The zoning out and having trouble finding my words FEELS like it is worse when I don't take my Adderall. I say feels because, I don't know if my T noticed any difference when between what I'm like medicated and not medicated. Since being on the Adderall I usually mention somewhere during the mid or end of a session....Oh, BTW forgot to take my Adderall today. I usually don't mention it at the beginning of the session 'cause I don't want her zooming in an observing my ticks. I tell her at the end, just in case she is thinking... WTF is up with her today. LOL

Sorry...off topic.:-)

ANYWAY... Like I said before. I think my anxiety (hypervigilance state) and ADHD had me in a state of constant overload and my head was in lock down. From my perception, getting medication for the ADHD helped me get out of the brain-spasm cycle :-). Although I still struggle a lot with my anxiety, especially when trying to talk about the past and personal problems in the present... I'm getting better. I'm not sure in my case if it is really possible to separate the trauma response from the ADHD symptoms. And as Sunrise pointed out.... I don't think it really matters at this point. I do not have any adverse effect from being on the Adderall and I'm not hiding or not getting apropriate treatment for my anxiety. Hopefully when my trauma stuff is dealt with and manageable...I will be able to cope with being a bit hyper.

At this point I am very glad that during therapy the ADHD issue was raised. I was able to take charge of my health care... got this issue under control so that I could then focus on other stuff.

Auro, if you think getting treated for ADHD is what you need... then demand that your health care providers listen. If they won't get new health care providers. My old GP was a really nice guy, I had him for 15 yrs... but when he dismissed my request explore the ADHD dx and for a trial of a stimulant medication... we needed to part ways. There is no doubt that I was a complete mental case at the time... but the last thing I needed was a GP who ignored me. My new GP has been great... not just because he referred me to someone who could help me, but because he was willing to listen to me. VERY important when your world is crashing in on you.

Hi Chaotic,

Originally Posted by chaotic13

I do all of these things especially the Thumper impression, fidgeting, and the zoning out. I think in my case it was both the ADHD an anxiety. The zoning out and having trouble finding my words FEELS like it is worse when I don't take my Adderall.

Whats the "Thumper impression" sounds kinda funny. ( lol)

My therapist did more talking than usual yesterday . And I noticed even though I was staring straight at her there was this static like interferance in my head . And It was a struggle to not drift . It happens so easily . Its like zonning out or tuning out. VERY frustrating. I told her what was happening . I miss whats being said when that happens . Its like i'm racing ahead of whats being said to me . I also was aware of sorta beating myself up a bit for it happening .

I say feels because, I don't know if my T noticed any difference when between what I'm like medicated and not medicated. Since being on the Adderall I usually mention somewhere during the mid or end of a session....Oh, BTW forgot to take my Adderall today. I usually don't mention it at the beginning of the session 'cause I don't want her zooming in an observing my ticks. I tell her at the end, just in case she is thinking... WTF is up with her today. LOL

Sorry...off topic.:-)

Not off topic at all Chaotic . I did the same thing . Im starting to speack about whats happening. Maybe eventually she will be able to read me . There is no off topic . just a branch or new node. an off shoot .

ANYWAY... Like I said before. I think my anxiety (hypervigilance state) and ADHD had me in a state of constant overload and my head was in lock down. From my perception, getting medication for the ADHD helped me get out of the brain-spasm cycle :-). Although I still struggle a lot with my anxiety, especially when trying to talk about the past and personal problems in the present... I'm getting better. I'm not sure in my case if it is really possible to separate the trauma response from the ADHD symptoms.

I feel this way alot . in a state of overload . It takes very little for me to sence danger in others emotional states or looks, They may not be about me but its difficult to not wonder if it will drift in my direction somehow. Thats when I feel anxious. And then I have the state of over load / overwhelm with the disorganization of my work and living space {s} down to boxes and bags . theres no Filing system ...just a "fling " system change one letter ..LOL!
Im good a flinging. very good. frizbee toss .. LOL LOLLLLLLL

not have any adverse effect from being on the Adderall and I'm not hiding or not getting apropriate treatment for my anxiety. Hopefully when my trauma stuff is dealt with and manageable...I will be able to cope with being a bit hyper.

I've heard that the stimulants can make angziety worse for some . S thats a problem for those with anziety.

I guess just being okay with being hyper is a good step . I left the office commenting,
I guess its okay Im my ragmuffin disheveled self . Now that I have a reason for it . I can let up on myself . Its not because Im a slob.

At this point I am very glad that during therapy the ADHD issue was raised. I was able to take charge of my health care... got this issue under control so that I could then focus on other stuff.

Im glad you did too.

Auro, if you think getting treated for ADHD is what you need... then demand that your health care providers listen.

well yesterday in my session My therapist must have consulted and she did some reading in the Book Driven to Distraction and she said she saw me in there so we are going ahead with ADHD treatment using CBT
AND

she said "were going to get you some meds when your ready."

so .. I had this grin on my face that would come to me off and on durring the day . I think I was actually happy not crazey happy just this amazing grin .

So.. I have home work...

And its gonna be alot of work. Sunday I left my lights on in my truck and had to have a jump. And yesterday I locked the keys in . They were not in the ignition . I put them in a bag when I was putting my cd player somewhere other than just on the seat. Today just the usuall chaos . of seeing where I placed things yesterday. Always an adventure of hide and seek.

Just thinking

I may one day not be a "bag" lady..

Patricia

[chaotic13]

Auro... sound like you may be making some progress. What do they actually do in CBT for ADHD... I don't think I am in that kind of therapy.

[DivideByZero]

Thanks for this article, this is probably why my pdoc is reluctant to diagnose ADHD for me.

Originally Posted by chaotic13

Auro... sound like you may be making some progress. What do they actually do in CBT for ADHD... I don't think I am in that kind of therapy.

Hi Chaotic,

I think its fairly common for those who are in therapy with ADHD .

Cognative Behavioral therapy .

Depression or skewed thinking from years of not understanding how ones adhd symptoms have caused a distorted sense of self from being teased and thought to be lazey, slow , spacey or non compliant or unrealible from parents peers and teachers has to send some negative messages that are not true .

Much of CBT is countering Negative distortions about ones self. I think I got that right.

Patricia
.

Hi Divded By zero,

Originally Posted by DivideByZero

Thanks for this article, this is probably why my pdoc is reluctant to diagnose ADHD for me.

And from your other thread

I am trying to get help at the moment, I cant concentrate at all. I get distracted all of the time and my thoughts are constantly racing and unorganized. I don't know what to do, my performance at work is starting to suffer, I cant do what I most enjoy any more (reading) because I will read part of a page go into a dream or though, have to go back, start again, have to go back. I am like that until I am exhausted, and when I am exhausted I cant read because I fall asleep as soon as I go to bed. I am at my wits end.

one thimg to ask your self Zero is how long has this been a problem /
And if you could read befor what was it about your reading that allowed you to stay focused as you read . Was the material exciting and grabed your attention and challenged you . Did you need anything to help you focus while reading . fidgeting ,drinking, eating ,smoking,

Are you surrounded by lots of things i your living space. some would call it clutter .

do you start and stop projects . Are you always late miss judging the time it takes to do things . Do you have to have a tv on or listen to music or do two or more things at once ? do you frequently walk into a room and end up doing something thats not wah you walked into the room to do.

are you always hunting for things . Do you fling instead of file . Do you procrastinate as in pick up a letter and say ill read the rest later and put it in a book or some pile and then you have to spend hours trying to find it when you do need it.

Does your mind shift so fast you can't remember peoples names . and have to ask the five times . When you are listening to another person talk to you does your mind wander off even when you don't want it to .

racing thoughts may mean the same as 'shifting thoughts. there are two maybe 6 types of ADHD .

Two are innatentive and hyperactive. The inattentive tend to come from internal distractions .
The internal needs drama inorder to focus .

and the hyperactive I belive is from the external ? visual sound touch.

and i think the hyperactive also has the fidgetting and can't sit stil have to be in cmotion in oreder to focus .

you can have both.

Im just learnig about all of this. so I may not have it right yet.

I noticed you posted you have suicial ideation maybe some hopelessness?

Well its not to uncommon for those with ADHD to turn to drugs food and sex to help focus and compensate . it doesn't take much to become addicted and its a short hop from that to hopelessness.

I would encorage you to try to read some of driven to distraction . it won't be easy .

Ha ha.

It took me quite a while to read five pages . I get side tracked so easily . words take me in different directions .

try stopping into Barnes and Nobel and try reading page 221 through 226
its about structure .

another good book is a work book titled

Living with ADD

Its both educational and has exersiszes that get you to look at yourself past and present .

ADHD Its worth looking into . It could be an integral part of your dispare .

Lots of hugs .

Patricia

Hi Divided by zero,

I thought Id sahre this mornings distractions, I get up and go to feed my Dog. she's on a liver Med that has to be taken 1 hour before eating. i go to find the med because i had it in bed. why In bed? beause i was googling the name to see if It was Sam-e and maybe i could get the suplement cheeper/

I walk from the kitchen to the bed to look for it.

I see the matress sheet pulled up from the end of the matress .

I fix.

I end up in the kitchen fixing the breackfast . After a few other things.

oh right .. the meds!!!!!!

i go back to the bed .

Find them on a table near the bed . Don't remember droping them there.

I laugh.
I finish the breackfast.

I hop on here to share with you.

another question to ask yourself is .
Do you find you have to do a lot of retracing your steps through out the day to get back to what you were originally starting to do/
or to find things.
This may seem funny .
but its a lot of unessesary work and very inefficent.

back to trauma.

look in your past childhood and see how others treated you and how your reacted .

ask why they treated you the way they did.
were you called names. like space cadet, ragmuffin , scatterbrain , premadonna , Goofy, gullible, stubborn, klutz,

did you get your mouth washed out with soap by teachers. did you get reprimanded, as a behavior problem .

did you jump from one activity to another.

were you reprimanded , yelled at , belitted, maybe even hit by your parents because of the way you were , missunderstood as a wlld child who just woudn't listen .

were you pushed away because you were too physical/

did you get sexually abused because you were too touchy feely. with a parent or other adult.

Are you "defensive" a lot... hurt and angry , missunderstood.

all of this equals trauma .

all things to ponder . get a journal .

write and read about ADHD and listen to that small voice inside.

your worth finding the answers . and only you can find the truth.

Patricia

[TrespassersWill]

Wow. Thanks for sharing the article. I'd never heard of the connection. I was diagnosed with ADHD inattentive type plus also Aspergers, PTSD, TBI and told I dissociate but don't have DID. Now this all makes me wonder.

Originally Posted by TrespassersWill

Wow. Thanks for sharing the article. I'd never heard of the connection. I was diagnosed with ADHD inattentive type plus also Aspergers, PTSD, TBI and told I dissociate but don't have DID. Now this all makes me wonder.

Hi TWill



Wondering and examing oneself brings forth many answers . I did not hear about ADHD till a therapist brought it to my "attention" LOL as two possible diagnosises to Look at For my accumulating projects . this was Spring of 2004. I also could not keep on a topic . I pent lots of time describing past situations to a new theraoist and inevitably would see omething new and spent lots of time on past relationships, Time and time again I was struggling to send out Bills to my clients. once again I was trying to adress it. The ones I did design work for and purchased materials and spent extra time I would have the biling probem with .

. It is now a HUGE problem with a client I bill and do not get paid weekly. Im behind an entire year . Im lost and overwhelmed with it because I keep putting things off , plunk down reciepts and in the monent think i will get back to it but Im on the the next thing. i always have good intentions.

My life Is a mess because of this.

Oh.. the two diagnosises..

OCD and ADD .

From what Im learning most therapists that treat adults do not Look for ADHD because its usually caught in childhood. Since its not being looked for its common to diagnosis those with ADHD as haveing a personality disorder . Antitisocial , Narcicstic , and Borderline peronality disorder are common. I belive Aspergers is also similar to Borderline personality in some respects.

Page 186 in driven to distraction.

"we have seen a number of cases in out practice , and have had reports from others , of patients diagnoised as borderline who in fact have ADD,
The practical signififcance of this is that the treatment for ADD is quite different from the treatment of borderline personality disorder. "

this was written in 1994 .

the next therapist I saw who was an intern ........ (as was the one who suggested I get tested for ADHD ) { I was with them for the school term fall winter spring .}

.........must not have followed up . I mentioned I woud like to look at ADHD . She handed me the DSM . I skimmed it in the office and . said I have these problems but I didn't think It was that severe to warrant drugs and i didn't want to take meds.

a few weeks later she handed me the BPD diagnosis . mean while I was saying I need to work on interupting people I can't stop and i think it bothers them and one time I just stopped talking and i asked her if she could follow me .
And she said..NO.

She had some books she wanted me to look at . I ended up doing research on BPD and ended up on a suport forum for those who lived with a person with BPD and I could not belive what I was hearing. and i didn't get anywhere with what i was struggling wit and the project kept accumulation . I was hopijg to have a garge sale .
and that got WAY out of hand...

I met someone on the BPD support forum and explained i was not sure I had it.

they decided I did . they even told me I was dissociating on the board .
I didn't know you could tell by a persons writting they were dissociating.
They must have had phycic powers. Later when i asked them why they disscused my situation with another friend of mine .

they said "You were dissociating Patricia .. evryone was concerned about you."

everyone?.......
Gosh, I wonder how many people he disscused me with ..

I guess some poeple did not like that I expressed my dislike of others making fun, tearing others down, calling them sluts . patients not partners . slobs , birdbrains . and vampires ..and they needed to make sure they didn't reproduce and make check list to see if they entered their life and go no contact if they showed up . garlic was recomended..

so i ruffled a few feathers by being horrified at this treatment .

He told me ..Patricia you were dissociating and if you don't agree theres nothing more to be disscussed.

WOW. ! I managed to speack up a bit .. and I did a good job. I don't think that swayed him one iota.

he got real mean with someone else and said .
"your dissociating man!"

This person has ADHD ..
When did it become a crime to dissociate?

.

Ive gone off here a bit but to show you how it can be damaging .and i need to get this off my chest and my heart and out of my brain.

When people disscociate they can't help it.
I do hope this person will do some more study and take some care with using that against others in the future.

Twill
Let your therapist know whats hapening . day dreaming , seeing something move . or just getting side tracked and starring off into space thinking about somethig thats connected to whats being talked about is not blanking out because you are trying to side step something painful like represed trauma.
But see how easy it is to appear like your avoiding a topic but just inspired or redirected and next thing you know you forget what the original topic was.

this feels good to share ,, Hope it helps you too..

Patricia

[TrespassersWill]

Patricia,

HOW can you dissociate on a board? I'm struggling here just trying to wrap my brain around that concept. Wow I'm not seeing how 'tis possible to do such.

I have my own theories on dissociating since my therapist was so kind to sketch it all out on paper how DID works. Though she has repeatedly said I don't have DID, but that I dissociate because its something I learned in childhood to escape abuse. However I have entertained the thought that possibly I do have multiple personalities because some friends have experienced disbelief that I has Aspergers while others are quite certain yeah that all makes sense because you act so weird. Like maybe one of me has Aspergers and the other doesn't? Its just a theory though and I'm not sure its that complex for me. I have noticed over the years a slew of people who swear they know me who I don't know who the heck they are and used to find folded up slips of paper with peoples names and ph# on it and I had no idea where the paper came from, who that person was etc. But then again I have traumatic brain injury so am I merely forgetful or do I dissociate outside of home when I swear that I only dissociate in the privacy of my own home?

What a mystery! I do get sensory overload I think from the TBI though Aspergers is known for sensory overloads too. So comparing apples to apples it seems. But when I get overwhelmed with having to make a big decision, too much anxiety, noise, bright lights etc after a day of that I come home and dissociate in the bathroom for 1-3 hours. Its a ritual. When I was working I had to dissociate for 3 hours after I got home just like some people come home and have a beer to relax. My brain was overloaded on a daily basis.

I don't know that it is a crime to dissociate. It almost seems like a normal healthy person should from time to time. I also feel like I have stronger than most because I apparently dissociate so well, but I digress. Therapist says most people do dissociate like when they daydream while driving long stretches of a familiar road. I did tell my therapist that dissociating was fun. Will that be held against me? I wonder if I have ever dissociating in front of her without my knowledge? Its such a private activity, just like handflapping and rocking with Aspergers is something I trained myself to do at home only. Though I have been caught doing it in public and was not aware.

There's a part of me that, after therapist explained what DID was, that wanted to say what a crock of BS. Seriously how can someone be more than one person? Sure people can act different in various scenarios but she was saying how she had talked to multiples during client sessions. Like where she's like ok I need to talk to so and so and set something straight with them then the other person appears. Weird. I'm not sure it exists more than its just psychobabble for professional daydreamers. I'm not sure I see a connection between dissociation and ADD though. Neuropsych insists I've always been ADD most likely. But I know myself the major inattentiveness didn't happen till after the brain injury.

Another thought is I have severe pain that went untreated or undertreated for years so now no pain treatments seem to work that well. I suspect I dissociate also as my own method of dealing with severe chronic pain and that that is why I now dissociate so much. From pain and from emotional issues and sensory overload. Because nothing else works and dissociating is cheaper than prescription drugs. I need to discuss this with therapist to see if its logical or just blowing smoke. If I'm babbling I apologize in advance. Others seem to have problems following my train of thought and might call it rambling. Its more like ADD though.

[TrespassersWill]

Another thought occurs... when you see a cat laying there staring out in space are they dissociating? Or what are THEY doing? What's their excuse?

Originally Posted by TrespassersWill

Another thought occurs... when you see a cat laying there staring out in space are they dissociating? Or what are THEY doing? What's their excuse?

I try asking Pepe , but he refuses to tell me ..



friends cat..

HOW can you dissociate on a board? I'm struggling here just trying to wrap my brain around that concept. Wow I'm not seeing how 'tis possible to do such.

It took me a long time to ask myself that Twill, and My therapist thought it was preposterous! Ignorant codependant me just sat back in my usual submissive abusive trance like state and agreeded.

In other words I just let the man be right because he knew more than I of course.

It woud take me a couple of hours sometimes to write a post. ( still does ) This is due to having so many avenues of thought coming at me . basically my thoughts interupt my thoughts . some times so fast I cannot speack . even as I type this I can imagine him telling me to get a life. ;-(

This same thing happens to me in AA meetings when I try to share. I appear very disscombobulated. Inside I know the gist of what I want to say , It just never makes it out there. I frequentlt give up.

If I go off on a tangent speack Of "A" and then "C" "B" get ommitted and people can't follow.

I have my own theories on dissociating since my therapist was so kind to sketch it all out on paper how DID works. Though she has repeatedly said I don't have DID, but that I dissociate because its something I learned in childhood to escape abuse. However I have entertained the thought that possibly I do have multiple personalities because some friends have experienced disbelief that I has Aspergers while others are quite certain yeah that all makes sense because you act so weird. Like maybe one of me has Aspergers and the other doesn't?

Maybe some of your friends think your weird and others don't.

I have never had a therapist expain how DID works. And I have never talked about dissociation with a therapist. till just recently in regards to ADHD And this is the first I have thought about all of this. herapists seem t know but the clients can be left in the dark . I too am a trauma survivor . The best way I describe copping is to be able to stare off into space see all thats happening but not beable or refuse to say anything about it. Just collecting data in a hyper aware state.
it takes real courage to confront .Ss children we can't or don't know how to do that , so we internalize all the events stored as visual memories for me.

(about courage to externalize.)

Last week I walked into a conversation betwen husband and wife. I caught the husband saying. with an angry scowl

"i don't pay her XXXX amount of dollars to worry about her dog ,,,,,,,,,,

And I blanked out on the rest because I knew it was about me I was in shock.

My natural state is to internalize it. imediately they saw me there . I knew instinctively they wanted me to move my vehical so he could park his in the garage, He imediately asked me If I wante a drink I curtlt said , NO ,

the wife had gone inside the house ands was looking at me from the door tram.

she came out to chit chat not long after. I told her I heard what her husband said.
She bold face lied .. said her husband wou not say that. I aquiessed went along with thier gaslighting andthey coukd not do enough for me ,

They obviously were sorry but in that lie they made it be my fault.
Such crazey making .. I will distance myself further as in be just buisness like . try to forgive that they could not just be honest and appologize.

Its just a theory though and I'm not sure its that complex for me. I have noticed over the years a slew of people who swear they know me who I don't know who the heck they are and used to find folded up slips of paper with peoples names and ph# on it and I had no idea where the paper came from, who that person was etc. But then again I have traumatic brain injury so am I merely forgetful or do I dissociate outside of home when I swear that I only dissociate in the privacy of my own home?

I have had this happen to me. Usually it from people who knew me in 12 step meetings and I saw them briefly . They may not have ever spoken to me but they remembered what I shared..

when I speack I need to stare off into the distance as if looking ata black board . Its so I can see my thoughts through imagery . I cannot lok people in the eye much while talking . its due to the struggle of keping my thoughts in alignment also.
So I apear dissconnected to others .

because I am I guess because I have to be .. because my thoughts have to be reigned in . its alot of work.

So people will remember me but I not them.

I also have a hard time remembering names . my mind is off and running and they do not register.
Im great with remembering faces

(about finding pieces of paper with names and numbers . or just telephone numbers.)

I write stuff down and plop it some where like a squirrel who gathers acorns buries them and when they dig them up they know its an acorn but can't recall where they gathered it from

If i would make a drawing with the name or number that would help me remember.
i just thought of that.

What a mystery!

LOL!!!! I like your humbleness.

I do get sensory overload I think from the TBI though Aspergers is known for sensory overloads too. So comparing apples to apples it seems. But when I get overwhelmed with having to make a big decision, too much anxiety, noise, bright lights etc after a day of that I come home and dissociate in the bathroom for 1-3 hours. Its a ritual. When I was working I had to dissociate for 3 hours after I got home just like some people come home and have a beer to relax. My brain was overloaded on a daily basis.

Im sorry you have had a TBI Sensory over load is comon with ADHD too, both internal and external.
Im hit from both sides I think Im hyperactive and innatentive.

And I relate to what you just shared .. I think alot of proccessing is happening durring those dissociating states .

Or maybe its a walling off or deompressing.
but it can be a way of avoiding too.

heck ..

what woud we do if we could not find a way to shut out stimiuli . We be a walking light bulb or lazer beam or nutron bomb.. LOL! I don't know what a nutron bomb is.. LOL!!!!

I did tell my therapist that dissociating was fun. Will that be held against me?

I wonder if I have ever dissociating in front of her without my knowledge?

Its such a private activity, just like handflapping and rocking with Aspergers is something I trained myself to do at home only. Though I have been caught doing it in public and was not aware.

I have a decompressing zoneout secrect too...

since i need to speack to see my words I talk out loud alot which looks like talking to myself . writting helps because I can see the type .

Weird. I'm not sure it exists more than its just psychobabble for professional daydreamers.

I read parts of a womans very sad story . It was written by a womans therapist from notes over a 18 year proccess .

I do not doubt it exists . And the brutality of the abuse makes me shiver.

I have had just part of one memory and its still walled off . And i hope it stays that way.

I'm not sure I see a connection between dissociation and ADD though. Neuropsych insists I've always been ADD most likely. But I know myself the major inattentiveness didn't happen till after the brain injury.

If you have a hard time remembering your childhood this would be difficut to say yes to . Since Ausperger and ADHD are similar the question woud be did you have Auspergers when small .

People with Auspergers are thought to not beable to have empathy . And those With ADHD also appear that way because they are so forgetful or off in another day dream or just lost in thought. thee is also impulsiveness and over steping of anothers peersonal space,

this is allso common with abuse victiums, they had thier space over stepped time and time again physically and verbally.

thus the ned to dissociate , Thus the appearance of not having empathy.

when things are interconnecte I have a dificut time stayig on one topic.

And I can go on for awhile sometimes.

[quote]
Another thought is I have severe pain that went untreated or undertreated for years so now no pain treatments seem to work that well. I suspect I dissociate also as my own method of dealing with severe chronic pain and that that is why I now dissociate so much. From pain and from emotional issues and sensory overload. Because nothing else works and dissociating is cheaper than prescription drugs. I need to discuss this with therapist to see if its logical or just blowing smoke. If I'm babbling I apologize in advance. Others seem to have problems following my train of thought and might call it rambling. Its more like ADD though.
[quote]

I think its the ADD the rambling. but it not rambling .. LOL!

I think your on to somethig about needing to disssociate from physical pain as well

And you are to be comended to do it all without drugs.

So hand flap fidget , dissociate away..

uh well exept for the chow...

I think its good to examine this thay way when peope acuse me of being dissocitve I can atleast verbilize what happening so I can better explain what it i Im doing. And hopefully they won't think Im a danger to thier family for dissociating.

Patricia

[PurpleLady50]

Very interesting article. My therapist brought up dissociative disorder once but never took it any further. I probably have my own denial about it. I am guessing that is why I pursued the ADD diagnosis. I am glad to see Chaotic addressed the ADD then moved onto PTSD. Something for me to investigate as I travel this journey.
Thanks all