[LMo]

Ok, so my husband was doing fairly well on Strattera, and had finally faced his demons and went back to school this term (at age 32). He was finally finishing his degree, after years and years of trying and failing because always, toward the end of the term, he would get overwhelmed, flounder, not ask for help, and then just stop going to classes. It's quite predicatble, actually.

But this year was supposed to be different! His depression is (was?) under control; we have a terrific T who we both see every week; he has a great ADD coach who understands him; and he was doing pretty well on Strattera -- not perfect, but better than without.

Our T and his pdoc had recommended that he give Ritalin a try, to bridge the gap between "pretty well" and "completely functional". The ADD coach was ok with the idea, but wanted to wait until he was between terms. I kind of agreed with her, but due to his pdoc retiring, he decided to give it a shot now (before the pdoc retires) in case med changes were necessary.

I had to go on a business trip two days after he started on the ritalin. The night before I left, he was up until 5am, and had to get up at 7am to leave for school. I don't know what he was doing, but he had dragged electronic equipment up from the basement and it was all over the living room. Red flags went up, but he said it was for a school project, and I'm supposed to take his words at face value and leave the analysis to our T and the ADD coach so...

... so I left for my trip. And sadly, he got behind in his schoolwork and instead of asking for help (from his classmates, his instructors, me, our T, his ADD coach...) as he's been instructed to do, he got depressed and stopped going to classes. Again. He didn't take much of the ritalin because he said it made him clench his teeth, so instead of calling his pdoc about it, he just didn't take it

I knew that something was wrong by the tone on his voice and his defensiveness when I tried to call him while out of town. He wouldn't tell me how his day was, and practically hung up on me when I asked him if he had gotten ahold of his ADD coach to reschedule with her (because I got an email from her that he hadn't shown up). But from out of town, there was NOTHING I could do about it.

So when he picked me up from the airport, it was clear. He had "the smell". It's weird - his body chemistry or something changes when depression takes hold - I can smell it on him every time. And when I got home, the smell was overpowering. He was anxious and agitated when we got home, very angry and defensive, and I really wanted to just crawl into a hole and die. NOT AGAIN, I wanted to scream NOT AGAIN AND NOT NOW.

He ended up sobbing in my arms until we fell asleep, then he got up in the middle of the night and has been doing homework ever since.

I don't know what to do. I really am not sure how much more of this I can take. I have nothing left to explain to my parents, and I've spent years now supporting him financially while unemployed or underemployed, and this school is crazy expensive. This WAS Plan Z... we have no contingency plans left. He can't get it together, it seems. I KNOW that it isn't his fault, but what am I supposed to do in the meantime?

He NEEDS to:
- stay on his meds
- learn to recognize when he's starting to slip
- ask for help EARLY
- take responsibility for his responsibilities
- manage his defensiveness and anger when he's feeling bad

Am I asking too much? What do I do about myself? I only have so much patience and maturity left

Sorry if this is in the wrong forum. I don't know if it should be in ADD, Depression, Relationships, or Caregivers. Or Insanity.

((( LMo )))

Yikes. Yikes. Yikes.

I'm sorry.

I don't have any words of wisdom or advice as I can see you are already doing everything you can as far as a support system.

I did notice this though...

He can't get it together, it seems. I KNOW that it isn't his fault

But to some degree, in my opinion, it is.

If I mess with my meds, I'm making that choice.

I am choosing to "not" get it together.( however irrational)

I KNOW it is my fault when I make that choice. And for whatever self-destructive reason I choose to do it for, I still know the consequences of my actions.

You are right when you say he needs to take responsibility for his responsibilities.

Your piece of mind is one of them.

[LMo]

Thanks Petoonie!

yes, you're right about that. I waffle between 'he is choosing' versus 'he has a brain condition which causes this'. I'm much more of the 'tough love' mindset, but everything I have read here over the years and have discussed with professionals leads me to want to try the compassionate route.

Where I get REALLY stuck is: how do I make it right for both of us, including me? When he drops his responsibilities, the consequences are also mine. I try to stay disengaged so that he can feel independent and in control, but I don't know how to protect myself from the consequences.

ARGH - this sounds exactly like my very first post that I made here 4 years ago. I have gotten NOWHERE

Must be how he feels

I think I'm calling my doctor and asking for meds again. I just don't know what I can do to soothe myself. I've been living with this for far too long

I think I'm calling my doctor and asking for meds again.

Good idea, kiddo. Good idea.

I'm not sure one can find ways to self-soothe in the middle of chaos/crisis when loved ones are going down in flames.

There is a metaphor I use often, not sure of it's origin.

A woman is in a room that is on fire. She is absolutely "back up against the wall" terrified to run through the flames to safety.

Does a friend who truly understands the fear of rushing through the blazing fire, rush in to stay with her and soothe her, only for them both to perish in the fire?

Or does she drag her friend, kicking and screaming through the heat to safety?

Do you see a seperate T on your own?

[(JD)]

I hope that you can both decide on what meds to take and which ones not to, and how to regulate it all like when he was doing ok... going back to that immediately is what I would try.

Please don't think you haven't progressed. You have. I know the feeling though, and am trying to pass along to you what my T shares with me (no charge )

Setbacks happen. You have progressed, you have had better days since 4 years ago, and you have learned SO much in that time. Yes, this was a setback, but now you know, and now you are ready to make some firm agreements about the future (and medications.)

We have disorders, but we cannot use them as an excuse for not taking care of ourselves. Yes, much might be cause by the meds and the disorders, but then we have to pull ourselves up by the boot straps and take responsibility and try to figure things out again.

[LMo]

Thanks Petunia, again

Your metaphor really hit home with me.

The one that I created to describe my situation is that I'm tied to a railroad track with a speeding train headed my way. My husband is at the control station. All he needs to do is pull a lever to divert the train to a different track, but he is apathetic, depressed, and lacks the energy to pull the lever.

Ironic that I'd whip out that metaphor after my post in Relationships where I'm complaining about my own lack of drama

I was really trying to avoid meds since I'm trying to get knocked up (rather unsuccessfully, I might add). Lexapro was phenomenal, but isn't rated well for pregnancy so I guess it'll be back to Welbutrin, even though it didn't help much. I also upped my yoga membership and will make a point to go often over the next few weeks.

Thanks Petunia - you're a good pal

(ps - Before anyone jumps on me and says "don't get pregnant until he gets his act together", remember that I'm 37 and have been trying for over a year, so I really don't have much time left to "wait". I have no issue financially raising a child alone, if that's what it comes down to, and I don't want to miss my window of opportunity and resent him even more as a result. So I'm going for it, although yes, I worry tremendously about whether my child, if I can make one, will suffer in some was as a result of my selfish decision. But darn it, can I please be selfish for once in my life? Please?)

[LMo]

((( _Sky )))

you brought tears to my eyes. Thank you. I know that you understand, and I needed to hear these words.

All he needs to do is pull a lever to divert the train to a different track, but he is apathetic, depressed, and lacks the energy to pull the lever.

Does he know what will happen if he doesn't?

PS I personally don't think you're being selfish at all.

[(JD)]

You do have enough time to wait... if it's supposed to be. Work at staying nutritionally healthy, that's important too. A few more months or so won't make much difference perhaps, to be sure? ((((hugs)))) You have enough up in the air as I can tell, it really would be best to not add this stressor right this moment (worrying about or becoming pregnant.)

[LMo]

Hey - we just came back from an emergency appointment with his ADD coach. She's really great. We also spoke with a good friend of ours who is a child psychiatrist but also is well-researched in holistic medicine. I will update you all later, but just wanted to let you know that we learned some interesting stuff and have a plan for getting back on track.

((( all )))

[LMo]

Ok, here's the update. By yesterday afternoon, I was close to full-fledged panic. I really felt as if history was repeating itself and that he was on the verge of another multi-year severe depression.

The big difference between the last time and this time is that we now have a team of people who are familiar with my husband's issues and all who care about helping him.

We had an emergency meeting with his ADD coach, and I wanted to cry with relief. She took charge, and convinced my H that this is no more catastrophic than if he caught a flu for a few days and missed school. Her confidence gave him some renewed hope, which was a joy for me to see. Several years ago, this would have been the beginning of a downward spiral, because he didn't 'buy' my attempts to soothe him when he felt as though he had failed

She was convinced that the problem was due to a med change, and so was I until I had dinner with one of my best friends this evening, and she reminded me that I was sensing something going wrong a few weeks ago. She said that I had brought up quite a few "what ifs", as though I was not feeling secure about the state of our relationship, and she said it was kind of unusual for me. She was right - this started a while back, not just while I was gone, and maybe NOT due to the med change.

Maybe it's due to the fact that we're getting toward the end of his school term and the pressure is mounting. Going back to school was a very bold step for him in the first place -- failing out of engineering school was what triggered his last massive episode which lasted for two years. He tends to isolate when he feels pressured, and never ever reaches out for help, which as you can imagine doesn't usually work well in an academic environment.

She set him up with recovery tasks, and is checking in with him frequently for the next few weeks. She also recommended an immediate med change back to Strattera, which is fine because he had stopped taking the Ritalin early last week. She also wants to schedule his Neuropsych Evaluation review for all of us (my H, the coach, me, our T, and his pdoc) sometime this week, and for my H to consult a naturopath. We have a good friend who is a child psychiatrist but is very well-researched and passionate about homeopathic treatment, so he is giving us some consultation as well. I need to call him back to find out what has decided about this, and if he can refer us to a like-minded colleague. He's really cool, with a great heart.

In summary, I am really really grateful for the support system we've developed over the past few years, including PC

(((( LMo ))))

I'm listening, bud.

[LMo]

it just got worse -- I posted about it in Caregivers Support

[LMo]

here's the link -- sorry I'm posting all over the place. Even though I'm an Admin and have been at PC for almost 4 years, I still can't really figure out where my own posts fit

he won't get out of bed

Is it possible his dx is wrong?

Remember Shirley was going through this and had an awful time trying to get her meds right.

My SIL was being treated for depression with anti-depressants but when they finally dx'ed her as being bipolar, they changed her meds to mood stabilizers and voila...she is much better.

Oh LeeAnn, I'm so sorry things aren't going well.

I wish I could tell you what works... but *sigh*-- I'm stuggling similarly with my teen son. I worry he won't be able to graduate.

It must be so hard for you as, like you said-- this also affects you -- not just him. I hope going back on Strattera will improve things... but if not... maybe like Tunia suggested-- maybe he's been misdiagnosed?? I don't know-- but I sure can relate to your frustration/worry and the feeling that things were going so great only to have them revert back to being not good at all

If you need to reach out, vent or yell-- I'm here!

I do hope with all the people helping your husband that he'll take that help and also think about how it's affecting you too. It's taken my husband years(well, we're still working on it) to realize that the things he does has an affect on the loved ones around him.

thinking of you--

mandy

[LMo]

thanks so much Petunia and Mandy. Gosh, I don't know about the diagnosis. We've always joked that he by himself has ADD and depression, but together, we are bipolar and ADHD (he's such a mellow guy, and I am extremely high-energy, ie manic and hyper)

he went to the ADD coach this morning and she agrees that we're in an emergency situation. She got him to sign couple of releases letting me talk to practicioners, and our psychiatrist friend put a call in to one of his psychiatrist friends, nudging us in for an emergency appointment. I left the new guy a voicemail but am waiting to hear back.

[January]

((((((((((((((((( LMo )))))))))))))))))))))))

I am so sorry you're going through this.

You always tell us to practice self care. This may be the time for you to do the same.

Has your husband signed a contract that he will do the things you listed? Sometimes they help.

You are one of the most special people I know. I wish so much I had just the right answer for you.

Hugs,

Jan

[LMo]

still short - still haven't had more than a few seconds online lately. We went for the neuropsych report yesterday and while he does seemingly have a pretty significant ADD component based on one of the tests, his neuropsych evaluation did rule out any kind of cognitive or brain problem. The neurophysician said that ADD is more than just a set of test results, though, because what impairs people on a test is not the same kind of pressure or interest level that impairs people in day to day functioning.

So, his conclusion is that we already have the right 'team' in place - our psychologist, the ADD coach, and a psychiatrist - and we're going to have to focus on the emotional and psychological components to what is holding him back. All 3 of our 'team' have called and are very interested in the results of the report, and that makes me feel sooooooo relieved that it's not all on my back anymore. I felt so alone when he hit his first major depressive episode after failing out of engineering school when we first moved to our city and didn't know anybody.

I'm really proud of my husband. He was very open during the whole session (and remember that he is very much an introvert), and while he usually is pretty sensitive, he didn't take anything that the neuroMD said the wrong way.

Things are going much better now than they did last weekend. He isn't caught up yet, but he's only behind in 2/5 of his classes. I'm going to suggest that perhaps he take less classes next term. He's back on Strattera (which I just learned was first developed as an antidepressant -- did you guys know that?) and is working his way up to a higher dose. He got some dispensation at school and has some extra time to make up the work he missed. I'm not relaxing just yet, but I'm glad he's back in school and feeling better about himself, anyway.

On the flip side, my insurance company denied my Lexapro prescription In fact, the pharmacy wouldn't even fill it for me, for some reason. My doctor is calling the insurance company to find out what is going on. Maybe it's for the best if I'm not on it anyway, but that was the last thing I needed to hear the other day Ah well, onward and upward as I usually say...

Thanks again, to my dear friends here

LMo: I think I'm calling my doctor and asking for meds again.

Petunia, the wise flower : Good idea, kiddo. Good idea

LMo: Maybe it's for the best if I'm not on it anyway

Petunia, the wise flower:

[LMo]

Well, you're right, but the crisis was averted and I was really, REALLY trying not to be on medication unless it's absolutely necessary right now. I have NO issue with meds, but I'm trying to keep my oven "clean" for advent of potential bun.

I called my insurance company to find out what's going on. They said that Lexapro is too expensive and that I need to go back to my doctor and ask for Celexa or (two or three other meds that I don't remember the names of). WTH? How is this any of their business? What, they'll save $15/month after all of the money I pay for my PRIVATE insurance plan? I'm self-employed -- my plan costs me about $2k/year with a $2500 deductible. It would be one thing if they actually PAID for the medication, but no, they only kick in a small percentage. I am really angry about it. I need to get involved in healthcare legislation. I'm going to work on that - in my free time - lol.

Thanks for caring, Petunia

I'm trying to keep my oven "clean" for advent of potential bun.



I'm still using smackey heads though...just cuz I like 'em.

[LMo]

back atcha!

On another topic, I think it was Perna that asked me if my going out of town on a business trip could have partially contributed to his crash. I can't find the post though. I had answered "no, he's used to it and likes his alone time", but we went to see our wonderful T last night and as my H was explaining what had happened, he did say that it kind of throws him off-track when I go out of town. Interesting -- I really hadn't realized it. Only recently did I stop travelling out of town for work M-F and now have a local client.

This kind of puts me in a guilt position because while I abhor weekly travel at this point in my career, I do like to get out of town once every 1-2 months or so, especially if I can go to one of my favorite cities or explore somewhere new, so I look for opportunities to do that. I'm not saying that I'm going to stop doing it altogether, but now I'm probably going to find myself thinking twice about whether I want to risk it or not

Ya learn something new every day... And for that, I thank you all for challenging my "know-it-allness" because clearly, I know a lot less than I think I do.

okay......i'm caught up.....bummer about your insurance company.

i'm also glad that he mentioned that it does bother him when you're gone. that's a huge step, i believe, in his going forward and not retreating into just not saying anything......xoxoxo pat p.s. i also totally understand your enjoying the trips.....i'd be the same.....

[breezer]

Greetings... been checking in on this post and glad to see you and your H have been successful in corralling your situation before it could spiral out of control. Balance is no doubt easier to maintain than achieve. Seems as if your presence keeps your H grounded, and when you are away there is not enough" Yin to complement his Yang" so to speak.

About the meds, IMO it has to be frustrating to know what works best for you but have to settle for a comparable script because of pricing/coverage. A friend of ours had the same problem coincidently with her Lexapro script not being covered and was not 100% while she was not able to continue her regimen. The next time I see her I will ask how she was able to fix her situation as she now is back on Lexapro and feeling more herself again.

Don't let it get you down, though, just use a little of that "H" (ad..."H"...d...) and research your options.

Peace to you