Autism

My husband has the following symptoms of autism. He can't maintain a conversation. As I talk, he will turn away and gaze at something. This is when I know 100% of what I'm saying is not being heard. If I say "look at me," he will look at me, then I know he's hearing about half of what I say. I may have to say look at me twice during each conversation. He also blurts out inappropriate things, for no reason whatsoever, such as "Calebs legs have gotten really chunky." First, no one cares and second, it's something you think, but don't say out loud. So he says inappropriate things in public on a regular basis. He doesn't know what inappropriate behaviour is, on the part of others and on the part of himself. He might go behind a counter in a restaurant and help himself to something. He doesn't understand boundaries. He doesn't understand if a behaviour is abnormal, so he sees abnormal behaviour in others as normal. He notices that the railing on this side of this staircase in the mall is taller than the railing on that side of the staircase. So he notices things, like a slightly crooked floor tile, where no one else would notice. And he wants to talk about it. He invents problems for us to solve. So he wants to solve a problem "that might happen." He gets completely obsessed with some things, to the point where he will completely neglect important daily things. Even small changes bother him, such as moving the furniture around. He interrupted me when I was getting ready for an important appointment to discuss why there was an empty shoe box in the recycle bin. Small things bother him, like the time I forgot to put water chestnut in the turkey stuffing. Even if it delayed dinner by an hour, he would push to "fix the problem" of the missing water chestnut. I think most people ought to be able to eat turkey stuffing with or without water chestnut. I can throw something in the garbage and he might retrieve it, even if the object belonged only to me. He's not angry or judgmental about these things, he can just get obsessive over throwing things out, to the point where I may have to hide what I throw out deep in the garbage can, in case it bothers him that I threw something out. Does anyone here know anything about Autism, as I think it probably describes his peculiar behaviour best. He's been on anti-depressants for 10 years, but he displayed all of these behaviours before he was put on anti-depressants.

How is he in social situations?

He might have Asperger’s which is on the autism spectrum. I’m wondering to how he is in social situations.

Only a psychiatrist can diagnose your husband with autism.

You said your husband's symptoms were presenting before you married him, and I'm sure you loved your husband when you married him, so I hope you and your husband can look beyond each other's characteristics and find the love that brought you together.

I hope you do not mind my saying -- as in "think it, say it" -- I could not refrain from chuckling a bit as I read your description of myself as a brilliant-minded Aspie stuck somewhere between Rainman and Spock. Are your husband's symptoms actually causing trouble for you or are you simply trying to identify and understand what might be behind them? Either way, you will have to learn to work within his own self-awareness (assuming he has some) and atypical neurology (brain function) if you might wish to help him at least try to learn to adjust his actions a bit. However, please be certain to always remember his thoughts and actions are quite normal for him and that it would be fruitless and even abusive to try to make him become something (neurotypical) he simply cannot ever be.

I had to chuckle, myself, over the initial part of your discription of your husband: the gazing at something else and you having to tell him to look at you. That's exactly what I go through whenever I try to speak seriously with my boyfriend. Sometimes I stand in front of the TV to get him to look at me. The other night I was pouring out my heart about some emotional difficulty I'm currently going through. The second I finished he asked "Did you start dinner yet?" He'll loudly remark about someone's appearance in public . . . someone he thinks is funny looking. In the supermarket, he'll go over to where candy is sold in bulk and just help himself and eat it.

I'm inclined to think that totally spacing out when being seriously addressed by one's woman is a rather common male response. I find it utterly exasperating. However, it often seems less a sign of developmental deficit than an indication of plain old disinterest. My bf is pretty obviously not on the a. spectrum.

You do list other things. Taken together they may add up to a spectrum disorder. I think that a mental disorder has to do one of two things: It has to impair a person's functioning, as in the person can't hold a job . . . or it has to cause significant distress to the person concerned. So I'm wondering what normal things is your husband unable to do, or what kind of emotional suffering does he experience?

Peter is very likeable and social. He loves chit chat about nothing. I'm not being sarcastic, he likes talking about trivial things with strangers. But he doesn't have a filter, so he says things other people don't understand. Most people indulge the weirdness that might arise in a conversation with him. A small minority are uncomfortable with his oddness.

Peter is very likeable and social. He loves chit chat about nothing. I'm not being sarcastic, he likes talking about trivial things with strangers. But he doesn't have a filter, so he says things other people don't understand. Most people indulge the weirdness that might arise in a conversation with him. A small minority are uncomfortable with his oddness.

The divorce route isn't being considered. I'm just looking at all the symptoms our two adult children are displaying and trying to figure out how to help all three of them. I can work around the disruptions caused by the symptoms with my husband, ONLY because he acknowledges them as disruptions. And because he puts effort into overcoming them.

I think I'm trying to gain a better understanding of what I'm dealing with from others who are outside of the situation. I'm walking a fine line between pushing for him to compensate for his disruptive behaviour through mindfulness and behaviour modification and leaving him to indulge in his disruptive behaviour. Right now, I only push extremely hard if his disruptive behaviour may lead to harm to himself or others, such as his propensity to take his focus off the road when he's driving. He will obsessively change the radio station nine times in one minute. Meanwhile the car is moving all over the road and sometimes moves outside of his lane. My opinion is this: do you even need to have the radio on at all? If you are not good at keeping control of the vehicle when you change the radio station, perhaps you shouldn't even have the radio on. In addition, this is an obsessive behaviour.

The OCD aspect of him seems to enable him to be a star employee. He is the sales manager at a car dealership. And he is performing at an extraordinarily high level. He doesn't seem to suffer emotionally, as I don't believe he keeps much in his "this moment" memory bank. Although when he does encounter an emotional situation at work, he doesn't seem to understand how to deal with it either. This is where I will try to help him see the big picture of resolving an issue from a "we" perspective. He has difficulty seeing how his solution will not be a solution at all OR how his solution will be received by the other party.

I think Peter doesn't suffer emotionally, as he doesn't hold onto emotional energy from past conflicts. He does however suffer a bit when he's in the middle of a conflict he doesn't know how to resolve. He's trying to get his salesman to stop using his private office when he's outside of the building. His salesman uses Peter's office for personal use, playing computer games. Then Peter has to ask him to leave, which he doesn't feel he should have to do. And I agree with him. So he doesn't know how to resolve this, as he doesn't know how to deal with people in conflictual situations very well. He's completely and fully capable of performing at a high level if there are no problems. People confuse him. Although he seems to be able to resolve problems with customers very quickly and easily.

Your husband sounds rather well-adjusted to me. And I don't see where he could be described as developmentally delayed.

He's got an approach to life that seems to be working pretty well for him. I'ld say that, basically, is what it means to be mentally healthy.

He needs a lot of reminders of how to make his life work, such as not using his cell phone when he drives and not infringing on other peoples personal space. It's an ongoing thing, where he needs reminders to keep up the normalcy of life. Again, I only push for things to prevent him from hurting himself or others. Such as not weaving around on the highway for an entire minute while he obsessively changes the radio station 10 times.

I wonder if there is anyone who could be considered 100% "normal," if you examined every single tendency that person had.

I suspect that integral to the human condition is the need by each and every human being to struggle against various dysfunctional tendencies. We all have dysfunctional tendencies. I suppose a case could be made for any human being that this particular human being is living with some form of a disorder.

That even seems to be a direction we are moving in - this attributing every difficulty a person has in life to that person being affected by some diagnosis. There was a time when we believed that all men were sinners and that all encountered difficulty in life due to that. Medicine is replacing religion as the provider of a rationale for human shortcomings and failures. Your kid is the worst reader in the 2nd grade? Then he must have "dyslexia," a fancy sounding term from Greek that simply boils down to mean difficulty reading. So he has difficulty reading because he has "difficulty reading disorder." Oh . . . what an insight! That's way preferable to your kid being a little slow, or maybe just not liking reading. We want everything deficient in our natures to be the result of a clinical syndrome. I've always tended to be late for appointments. Am I disorganised or lacking in self-discipline? Heck no! Those would be character flaws. I prefer to conceptualize my chronic tardiness as "procrastination disorder." It has to do with neuronal synapses in my brain and the neurochemicals bouncing around in there. I probably deserve applause for managing to show up anywhere at anytime. What we're doing is engaging in tautology, whereby we imagine we have some deep insight that isn't really an insight at all. It's a word game.

I'm not opposed to identifying some problems as clinical syndromes. Obviously, some kids truly are "retarded" - a perfectly decent word that originally simply meant "delayed," as in "developmental delay." But we have elasticised diagnostic categories to the point that just about anyone can qualify for at least a few diagnoses. (Nobody has just one anymore. If you've got one, you probably have some "comorbid" conditions.)

My point, germane to the O.P.'s original query is this: What, Clairerobin, is your point. Suppose we all agree, just for the sake of argument, that - yes, your husband probably has an autistic spectrum disorder. What are you going to do with that finding? If you search hard enough, I'll bet you could find a clinical analyst somewhere who will concur in bestowing that label upon your husband. Then what? How would that be useful to you? I'm genuinely interested to know where you are looking to go with this.

I lived for a long time not even being able to move the furniture around, because change upset Peter. Even moving the salt and pepper shaker to a different location caused a need for discussion. He would replace something that needed replacing, but be unable to throw out the old item. He hoards sudoku puzzles from the newspaper. He can't possibly do all of those sudoku puzzles and the pile just keeps growing. He can't throw them out. He obsessively changes the radio station ten times in one minute, veering all over the road. This is dangerous. Is it really necessary to do that? Or is it OCD? What if he hits someone when he drifts into the other lane? He invades other peoples space and has no perception of boundaries. And he blurts our things that are better left unspoken. This isn't even close to normal. It's easy to say there's nothing amiss, when you don't have to live with the disruptions. if you lived with him for a week, you would take back your opinion. Of this I'm certain.

Once I was able to get him to see other people, not just me, saw his behaviour as either abnormal or unacceptable, he agreed to address the more harmful aspects of it, such as veering all over the road while he unnecessarily dug in the glovebox or talked on his cell phone. He lacks judgment about what is okay and not okay to do. Once he himself admitted, other people did not do many of the things he did, such as being unable to throw things out, like a shoebox, he began working on himself. So he no longer goes behind the counter in stores or restaurants now. So he's improved a fair bit. But our adult children are also displaying many of the same (and some different) behaviours. For example, my son used to measure the distance of his furniture from the wall. All of his furniture had to be exactly 3 inches from the wall or he wasn't okay. There is not one single restaurant in the entire world that can serve a meal to my daughter without her changing some aspect of it. No matter what meal she gets, homemade or restaurant, she has to change it from how it's served. This merely makes their life harder, because they are convinced they can't be happy unless they "fix" an imagined problem, like not being to throw out a shoebox. if their behaviour merely effects themselves, that's fair. But veering all over the road, because you have to obsessively change the radio station ten times over 60 seconds, and you only stop because you are told to stop, makes his OCD a danger to others. If I didn't stop him, how many times would he change the radio station? 20? 30? And meanwhile he's veering into the other lane. Most people don't do that? Being unable to throw out a shoebox is sad. They don't have to live with the torment that comes with being unable to find a single restaurant in the entire world that can make a meal without you have to change it somehow to make it acceptable. They make their own lives harder. And they impact others, in many, many different ways. He caused someone to go off the road on a highway on ramp, because he takes chances with his driving and isn't (wasn't at that time) focussed enough on his driving. He gets easily distracted (by the radio). So he caused an accident from a lack of judgment with his driving. People with autism are not very good drivers, because judgment is a huge part of driving. I've pushed him to improve his driving. And he's much better than he was 10 years ago, because he recognises his abnormalities impact others. If you care about the person with autism, we have a moral obligation to help them, rather than do the easy thing and declare everyone's abnormal behaviours as normal, even if it means they hurt others emotional of physically.

And my daughter is displaying symptoms of autism. My son's OCD, anxiety and other abnormal behaviour has improved enormously, since he committed himself to working on himself. He no longer obsessively writes notes to remember trivial things, such as "Today Ryan said he lost his notebook." I'm pretty sure remembering that his friend Ryan lost his notebook is not a crucial thing to remember to maintain a good and happy life. In fact, if he could put aside the need to write notes about completely insignificant things, perhaps he could spend his time doing something that might actually make him happy. And that's exactly what's happened, my son's life has improved enormously once he realised he could work around the abnormalities. Indulging someone as normal when their behaviour is abnormal is lazy, neglectful and uncaring.

If your husband and children are autistic, then I would think they would be very resistant to changing these behaviors you describe. Yet you describe success at your efforts to reprogram them. I guess that's a good thing, especially with behaviors that are dangerous.

I see the potential for you to cause yourself a lot of frustration. So, if you find behaviors that are abnormal, you feel you ought not to "indulge" them . . . because the person would be happier, if they learned to be normal. So, as a caring, responsible person, you have set youself the task of helping your family members work on themselves. How receptive are they to these efforts on your part? Do they not find you a teensy, weensy bit on the controlling side?

Let me explain a bias on my part that may be affecting my take on your situation. For the first 12 years that we were together, my boyfriend was a problem drinker. He was a problem to me and to just about anyone he was around. He was dangerous to boot, if you agree that driving drunk is pretty dangerous. So I set out to reform him. I started going to Al-Anon and reading their literature. What I eventually got out of the principles of Al-Anon was that I was just driving myself nuts. I was trying to manage my boyfriend's behavior - for his own good and the good of everyone around him. Al-Anon preaches that my job in life is to manage my own behavior. Eventually, that message sunk in. When it did, the quality of my life improved.

It sounds to me like you may be a little over-invested in trying to refashion other people's behavior.

As a recovered alcoholic as well as believing myself to be on the autism spectrum, I can say there is a *huge* difference between a) trying to enlighten and possibly help someone who is *willing* to review his or her own behaviour either for his or her own sake and/or for the sake of others and b) trying to refashion the behaviour of a chronic, out-of-control alcoholic.

Agreed.

Thank you for this comment, it clarifies my position exactly. I know the difference between what I can change and what I can't change. It's doubtful anyone here would allow a loved one to go untreated if they had pneumonia, yet many will allow their loved ones to suffer unnecessarily with autism. My husband is much happier now that he knows he can work around the odd behaviour. And my son is about 80% outside of those odd behaviours now. And my son is happy for the first time in his life, at age 27. And I know their limitations with regard to change.

My daughter fluctuates between happy and extremely sad, due to setting unrealistic goals. She makes a list of things to do today and then sets about getting them done. 90% of the time there are too many things on the list to do. No one could get all those things done in that time frame. Then she's upset that she didn't accomplish her list. The 10% percent of the time she accomplishes her list is because it was a realistic list. If she learned to set realistic goals, she may avoid being extremely unhappy over not attaining a goal. So she creates her own unhappiness by setting unrealistic goals, then she gets obsessed with attaining the unrealistic goal. This can be altered, but she would have to recognise the abnormal behaviour first. And it's sad that she has to alter every meal she's served in a restaurant, as if no one on the planet can make a meal that suits her. I find it implausible that every restaurant meal is just not "right," even meals she's never had before in a restaurant she has to alter. It's just another thing she's unhappy about for no real reason. It's not the restaurants, it's her. I'd love it if she recognised some of her unhappiness arises from symptoms of autism and she opened herself up to the same solutions that have worked for my son and my husband.

I work on myself everyday, but I don't have autism, I have stress. I meditate, read, write, seek help when necessary, take long baths, workout and take time to be alone. And I work on myself because I know I live under very stressful conditions, so I need to find my own work arounds for my stress. Sharing all of this here is part of that.

As I suspect you already understand well, there is no such thing as a treatment for autism. So, this is actually more like not being willing to stand silently at the side while someone such as Helen Keller might needlessly suffer simply because she could neither see nor hear. My own blindness and deafness presented as inabilities in the areas of social and emotional intelligence, and today I am grateful for the many efforts made by others to help me begin to learn, understand, improvise, adapt and adjust in those particular areas without ever viewing my symptoms as defects of character such as had been driving me to drink my way to the grave.

Yeah, I totally understand. I don't view these things as defects in my family. I view them as behaviours that make their life harder for them. And they are behaviours that have "work around" solutions. It's not a cure, it's a modification. And the modification primarily benefits them. But the modification also benefits me, as I really don't like watching anyone live their life in the hardest way possible. I think the autism diagnosis comes in when there are SO MANY of these odd behaviours it ends up being classified into an illness or disorder. If there's only ONE odd behaviour, it merely makes the person quirky but mostly normal. I'm happy you know the difference and have people willing to help you make your life better.

They are not. They are living their lives in the only ways they know, and the challenge is to meet them at their points of need if/when they might actually wish to try to achieve some varied or different results.

The autism diagnosis first entered the picture only in relation to low-functioning people who were truly disabled far beyond the display of merely-odd or -quirky behaviours...and I would view something such as a high-functioning person re-arranging food on a plate prior to eating -- I sometimes do that -- as no big deal as long as the meal is ultimately eaten in a relatively timely manner. So the challenge for you, in at least my own opinion, is to carefully distinguish between what *you* might want (either for yourself or for someone else) wherever no harm is actually being done...and there are times when telling someone he or she is autistic can actually be harmful.

note: No accusation is being made here, just a reminder of "...different, not less [or defective]" from the story of Temple Grandin.

Suppose that your daughter should prove very unenthused about accepting you in the role of life-skills coach and became rejecting of your suggestions for "work around modifications" to improve the quality of her life. Suppose she goes into complete denial about her autistic-like tendencies. Where does your relationship with her go from there? If she utterly refuses to alter the way in which she compiles her daily "To Do" list, can you tolerate (or "indulge") that? Or might you limit contact with her?

No one wants to be around someone who is always in crisis. Just as no one wants to be around someone who is always drunk or complaining. This is why I think she should address some of her behaviours. We will die one day and she may end up completely alone. If her goal is to get married one day, perhaps she needs to address some of her behaviours for her own benefit.

She blurted out something completely inappropriate on a 4-day road trip with 3 of her friends and spent the remaining part of the trip completely alone (and crying), they all stayed away from her. I think she would have a better life if she learned how to stop blurting out inappropriate things. And I would wish this on her even if I never saw her again.