[seventyeight]

just curious if there are any people out there that are bipolar, and have managed their illness without the use of medication..

or if anyone has thoughts on whether it can be done, etc.

any thoughts would really be appreciated!

I know mine can't. Lived that way for a very long time not knowing what was wrong with me, so it's not even as though I was consciously was doing it. The situation wasn't working though. Not at all. Once I knew, it was better in some ways -- like understanding much of the past, but understanding didn't change the fact that I had it and it was controlling me. First time at the P-docs, even knowing it, I didn't want to do meds(!)(At the heart of it, I was afraid they wouldn't work.) So she had me take fish oil and calcium and stuff. So hoped that would work. Didn't touch the BP. A later appt. I was in the midst of a very up and long-lasting hypomania. Guess who was resistant then as well? (Classic, eh? ) While I acknowledged that I probably should, I sure as hell didn't want to do it *then*! She said, ok then, call me when you're ready. Because she knew. Sure enough, the crash came and I was desperately scrambling. Had insurance at the time, but there were issues (as in a coverage gap...it was "supposed" to reinstate, but they dragged their heels for over a month before it actually reinstated). NOT fun. Add the ramp up time for the meds to start working and it was pretty damn ugly. When they did, it took some adjustment, which seems weird, but being somewhat "normal" took some getting used to. But it was a sweet sweet thing, and I'll never go without again if I can help it. (Not to say I didn't mess with them and try lowering the dosage --unsupervised, mind you...I did mention "classic" though, right? because things were going so well. Soooo didn't work. I "get it" now.)

Of course, everyone is different and it may work for some cases. I don't know. But I also have a very strong suspicion that many times people who do think it's working are simply in remission, you know? Time will tell.

[venusss]

I will be bit random, but better post random than not at all:

I think it can be done. Human willpower can be strong... you need to know yourself, your feelings... and knowing how to deal with them.

Yoga, relaxation methods, spirituality are very powerful tools.

Find an outlet and learn to channel your feelings... withdrawing yourself when you feel bad is actually the worse you can do at the moment... you can distract your feelings. Find something that will keep you going... find a goal in your life. Nothing too big... just something to keep you reasonably occupied (btw, learning language is not such a good idea. Many people given up on that, and you don't want to beat yourself over something like that unnecesarilly).

and do not think of "normal" too much. Let yourself be sad, or happyhappyhappy, just learn how to deal with these feelings... I managed to function while feeling depressed... and I enjoy my highs

If you are artsy... this is a good area. But do not make your work about yourself. If J.K. Rowling had writting "Woe is me" it would not be as great success as Harry Potter... and it would not help her that much either...

And look into natural supplements. They will do no harm if they do not help.

[sanityseeker]

I am bipolar and I don't take meds. Can't say I am managing my symptoms particularly well sometimes but it is the path I have chosen for me. I think it is an individual choice based on the severity of one's symptoms and how effectively meds and/or other treatment options work for an individual. What works for one doesn't necessarily work the same way for another. The complexities are enormous.

I focus a lot on spiritual, cognitive and other behaviour altering approaches to manage the symptoms as they arise in thier many forms and durations. I probably ramp up the non med treatments and self care considerations that anyone with bi polar needs to do everyday.

I am relatively level these days, save the odd bit of rapid cycling and peculiarities so it is easy for me to rationalize not taking meds but when symptoms flare up to the extreme I feel the pressure to question my decision.

If bi polar could be treated like my thyroid condition I would be on board to take my pill a day. If they could measure something and give me something to stablize the level consistently I would be first in line. Until that day the never ending tweeking process that is required to maintain med treatment effectiveness is more debilitating for me then going without. Just how I roll I guess.

If you opt to try to cope without meds then be prepared to do a lot more work learning how to retrain your brain and manage the effects of symptoms alternatively. Don't think you can just ride the wave until it runs its course. You have to manage the illness one way or another and you have to find the way that works best for you and your symptoms.

[blueoctober]

Originally Posted by seventyeight

just curious if there are any people out there that are bipolar, and have managed their illness without the use of medication..

Since I have been diagnosed I have been on medication (I was diagnosed at 31 and I'm 34 now), but I had experience symptoms since I was VERY young. I had my first attempt at 8 years old.

Without meds my symptoms got progressively worse and when I compare what my symptoms were like at 20 and what they are now at 34, I am worse and would hate to see what I would be without meds. Wait I know what it was like I was in Psych hospital for 6 weeks at 31..... not a high point in my life!

Everyone is different and one person's symptoms may be more severe than another and this may make the difference for being on no meds.

If you want to do this let a trusted, responsible person know. This person needs to be objective, impartial and someone you trust, so if you aren't doing well calls you on it before it goes down that slippery slope. Hope that helps.

[watchthestarsfall]

I haven't been diagnosed officially but I strongly suspect I am bipolar (type 2 though so no mania per se). I am obviously not on meds then and I get by for the most part it's just a few times a month or so that I'll be really in trouble....

[onomonapetia]

hmmm...This is a very interesting question to me. I hadn't even thought of it as an option. I know I was diagnosed at 21 (now am 27), but I was pretty stable before. I had an experience bring mine out I think. I don't know what it would be like without meds. The only time I wasn't on a stabilizer was during my pregnancy and 5 months post partum. I was only on zoloft. I was okay until 4 months pp and then I fell deep down. I wish medication was optional for me.

I don't know. I think everyone is different. My sister is bp as well and she self medicates with alcohol and drugs. As bad as that is, her moods are never as bad as mine. I bet with a lot of self control and intent, I think it could be handled for some with mild cases. I know lately I have been practicing some self control, and calming methods and they are working. I have been rage free for 6 days! My husband and I haven't fought in that time frame, I love it! I think I want to know the answer to this too. Sorry I am not much help. Yes I think it can be done, though.

Sorry for the rambling, my seroquel slumber just kicked in. Night!

[blueoctober]

Originally Posted by Innerzone

When they did, it took some adjustment, which seems weird, but being somewhat "normal" took some getting used to. But it was a sweet sweet thing, and I'll never go without again if I can help it.

Innerzone so well put. I had the same struggle. I was so used to the hypomanic energy that it became my "norm"; the depression I always wrote off as being "burnt out".

Now 3 years later I hate any phase of this illness. The hypomania feels "off" to me and is often off putting to others. The depression has the capability of killing me.

[sugahorse1]

The rights meds will help, the wrong ones are a waste of time - hence mine have just been thrown out the window!
i want a totally new set that will actually help

[Shakti]

I do yoga for two hours every day (I practice all 8 arms, not just asana). I also hike every day. I meditate daily. I lift weights three times a week. I eat a very healthy vegan diet and supplement with a multi-vitamin, B12, a B-Complex sublingual liquid, and iron (I'm slightly anemic per my last blood test results). I eat almost exclusively organic (and plenty of raw veggies and fruits). I journal, track my moods, food, and water intake. I don't consume any caffeine and I do not EVER touch alcohol (seems like taking a mood stabilizer is dumb is you put stimulants and depressants into your body anyway--so counterproductive). I drink only water (usually distilled and 80-100 ounces a day). And when I'm not on meds, it's a disaster. But it's a huge challenge finding the right combo.

I know some people have done it, but I know that even with all of the above that I do not have any stability or control whatsoever without meds. I tried for a couple years and it got worse and worse. My BP2 became BP1 along with all sorts of other scary stuff associated with BP1. This has been my experience, but like I said I know some people have managed it (probably mild cases) without meds.

[BlackPup]

I've heard of people achieving long term remission without drugs but everyone's brain is different and needs different things.
I think that like with dealing with unipolar depression you need to be normal for long enough for your brain to get used to being like that. You need to spend time doing all the pychotherapy stuff to give you the ability to deal with your emotions.
Where BP differs from unipolar depression is that we also have to find a way to deal with the way our brains can take off in any direction like a runaway train... So we need to be able to identify triggers, recognise early warning signs and have effective ways to respond to stabilise our moods...
I know that it will be a long while before I'm there, cos my brain is only just used to being normal(ish),

[sanityseeker]

Well said BlackPup. It is a roller coaster ride and it takes a lot of this and that to figure out how to keep the train on its tracks.

[Lauru]

Meds for me, are a necessity. I have near catatonic depressions and psychotic manias without meds. I tried for years to just do cognitive behavioral therapy. Which does work to an extent. But I just wasn't able to think clearly enough to use my skills. The depression was so heavy that I could barely move let alone think. The meds help regulate the chemicals in my brain enough that I can use my cognitive behavioral skills. The meds don't take everything away by themselves. If they did, life would be so much easier. But the therapy doesn't work by itself either. Spirituality doesn't do it for me, nor eating right and exercising. The only thing that has worked, is everything together.

[sanityseeker]

You guys make me wish I could try the meds again. I couldn't manage the side effects or the hassles with too many change of doctors. If only I had a doctor I could trust to stick around long enough to find the combo that would work and is willing to hold my hand through the process. I am getting tired of the roller coaster ride. Even though I have an arsonal of skills for coping the extremes I always seem to be either in recovery or treating myself with kid gloves to hold back an episode.

Its such tricky business this bi polar. I try to convince myself that I can manage the symptoms but the evidence likely suggests the contrary.

[sugahorse1]

aaaaahhh Sanityseeker - I wish i could say something to make it easier. I've been to 2 pdoc's (3rd one coming up) not because they keep moving, but because I just cannot work with them. I feel they don't really care and don't listen.
My meds have been a waste of time, so right now I am on none - waiting for the depression, but coping right now.
I wish I had a pdoc to hold my hand too, check in regularly, really care, not be afraid to listen to me, or try new combos. Someone who WANTS me to get better, not for me to just be an eternal patient to pay his salary.

[sanityseeker]

Thanks Suga. Since seventyeight posed the question I have been thinking about my decision to give up on meds and therapy quite a bit. I tend to go in circles with this. When things get too tough I want help but when I look at my options I land back at square one. I am pretty non med compliant, biologically and psychologically so finding meds that could help me isn't the work of a light weight. The one pdoc within an hours drive only does the diagnosis and reviews sripts. He is not a very chatty guy anyways.

The only therapists that I don't have to pay for out of pocket are through mental health services and limited to 8 visits. Had my guy not left I would have been cut off soon enough anyways as it turns out. Other options for doctors mean trips into the city and it would be counter productive because of the stress of those trips. No matter how I think of it I end up at square one with me doing what I have been doing to learn all I can to respond the best I can one episode at a time.

Add to that the crap shoot of it all and I end up figuring I am better off not playing the game. When I have a period of normal I am glad I am not on meds. When I have an episode I wonder if I could have prevented it or made the trip through it easier if I were on meds. I don't think I will ever have a complete answer to that. I witness people on meds struggling just as much as I do without them and that makes me wonder too. I know there are folks for whom meds are working but they seem fewer and farther between.

It is so individual which only adds to the challenge and complications. I end up feeling so stressed about it I have to just opt out completely to find my power again. Trust and dependancy are not my strong suit.

I hope sharing my own dilemma is helpful to you seventyeight. I don't mean to highjack your thread with my personal story.

[froggyG-ma]

Well, I guess I will brave my two cents worth. As I do not know you type of BP, I can not give you advice one way or the other. I agree that if you want to try it you should have someone available that can help you in a crisis.
On a personal note; I am a ultra rapid-cycler and have a lot of difficuly finding the right meds for my system. I took two Demerols after my first C-sec and was awake and VERY alert for 5 days. I took 5 Valium before an MRI (spaced out over a 4 hour period) nad did not sleep for 2 days. Over the counter sleep meds make me anxious and feel like bugs are crawling up and down my legs. I was doing real well on my combo of meds 3 years ago but then my ex-husband cancelled my insurance. I self paid for almost a year but then... no income. I moved here to Texas and am currently in school.
I must admit it is very hard to maintain @ times.One of my instructors has not helped matters by being VERY biased against Bipolor. I only have 2 more months to go then I hope to be able to get back on some meds. I DO NOT like "losing it" with my daughter and G-children. My oldest G-daughter is severe autistic so we clash @ times. When I am medicated I can deal with her more profound problems (nonverbal w/ severe meltdowns). Self medicating is not the answer either.
BTW... I have worked off and on in the medical fiels since 1985 so I know better.
I you CHOSE to go off meds be prepared for the worse and hope for the best. Good luck.

[I_am_myself]

So I originally thought I would respond to this post to state the case for going unmedicated, but after reading it. I think I can really speak for both cases.
Brief Background: I'm 23. I was diagnosed bipolar at the age of 15. at the time I was suffering very severe mood swings. I was psychotic/delusion and self-injurying. I spent 5 years in therapy and 6 trying various combinations of meds and suffering from most of the side effects. I went through 3 pdocs before I found a good one who really cares.
Anyway when I was 21 I finally found the right combination of meds. No notably bad side effects and I was relvatively stable. But I didn't feel right. I felt like I was missing part of myself. Most obviously my creativity and passion, but other things too. Anyway after a lot of research and thinking and talking to my pdoc and my friend and my family, I decided to try going off meds. Not because I was frustrated with the side effects, and not because I just wanted to be manic, but because I was willing to accept my condition for what it is. I understood I would have to take the downs with the ups and that both can have equally terrible results. I made an agreement with myself to go back on meds if things got too bad.
Anyway I've been unmedicated for close to a year and even though it's hard some days. I think it's worth it. I have a situation that makes it easier to deal with. I have a job that requires meeting deadlines rather than consistent performance. I've also built a great support system, and I manage my mood swings by carefully examining my emotions and thoughts and disregarding the ones that are mood related. I guide my decisions by logic rather than emotion and refuse to see myself as a victim of my own mind. I still take my feelings into account when making decision (because I prefer to be happy), but they don't rule me. Some days, I decide it's best to just take it easy, because the emotional pain of getting through a normal day just wouldn't be worth it. And some days I decide to push myself because practice makes it a little easier. And I try to avoid dwelling on how depressed or angry I feel when I'm down.

I guess what I'm trying to say is either way can work and you have to decide what's right for you and your situation. And then you have to stick to it. I honestly think that sticking with it and accepting the consequences of that decision is the most important thing. When times are rough you just have to remember, even if it wasn't your choice to be bipolar, you did choose the way your dealing with it. Accept it, don't resent it.

[sanityseeker]

Wow, I am myself... so much wisdom from such a young one. Thank you for sharing your experience and learning along the way. I agree that acceptance is a key component no matter what. And welcome to PC.

Thank you and welcome to you too Froggy. I can relate to your experiences with Demerol and Valium. And over the counter sleep meds are not a good idea with Bi Polar. I was warned against them but didn't realize why until I tried them in a desperate attempt to get some sleep a few years back. EEKS!

[seventyeight]

thank you all for your replies. some of you have asked questions and what not, so i thought i'd share something i wrote to a friend recently about 'my bipolar:'

I've been dealing with depression since I was a kid, mostly of the seasonal variety. Like clockwork, every winter my teachers would call my parents and ask if there were problems at home, ie divorce, a new baby, etc.

As I got older (teenagerish) the depressive times lasted longer and the good times were fewer and further between.

So I ended up going therapy durning my senior year of highschool, and then started on anti-depressants (Zoloft) like two years later. Well, within 3 weeks of the medication, I was having a full-blown manic episode.. complete with hallucinations, staying awake and not eating for like an entire week, and some other pretty extreme things. I should mention that I had never had a manic episode before.

Needless to say, I got of the meds, and went back to my normal, somewhat depressed self. I was ok again until like two years later I had another manic episode.. and I have more-or-less been on a 2-year cycle of manic episodes ever since. And it still follows a seasonal pattern.. depression all winter and mania either in the spring or summer. I've tried all kinds of mood-stabilizing meds over the years.. depakote, neurontin, lamictal, lithium, usually in combination with an anti-depressent.. celexa, wellbutrin, prozac, etc. I've never found a combo agreed with me.. I always felt totally zoned out, put on a ton of weight, and hated the way I looked and felt. And for me, it boiled down to the fact that I was so used to dealing with the depression, so as long as I wasn't suicidal, I could handle a week or two of mania every two years on my own. I just couldn't see medicating myself for 365 days, just to prevent something for 14 days if that makes any sense.

The bad news: the episodes have gotten a little worse each time, and this is why my family doesn't talk to me any more. Their position is "medication or you're not part of our life." (Plus, they don't like my current therapist for some reason, although they've never met her. It's probably because she uses 'alternative' styles of therapy, but who knows. So, part two of their stipulation is that I see someone that they pick.)

The good news: I've gone 16 months mania-free, and my moods have been pretty level on a daily basis. I haven't hit the 2-year mark, but therapy for the last year (with this new therapist) has been so successful, that I'm much more confident about it than I have been.

So, I'm not sure what more to say about it than that. I don't know if you can tell, but for me, the depression is very managable, but the mania is most certainly not - that's why I emphasize it when describing my bipolar.

anyway, just wanted to answer the few questions and to share a little bit more of my story. thanks again for all of your feedback.

[blueoctober]

seventyeight I don't know if you have already, but you may want to try a SAD lamp during the winter months. I'm sorry you are having a tough time finding a good med combo. I trust that your therapist will monitor you closely, because unfortunately for me the depression was managable until I hit 31 and even with meds it still can be stubborn. For me the illness had gotten progressively worse; not to say that you will experience the same and I hope that you don't.

[seventyeight]

hi blueoctober, yes i had one of those sun "lightboxes" when i was younger, but i'm not sure if it helped. might be worth trying again though, thanks for the tip!

[BNLsMOM]

I would so love to give up my meds, but I am so bad without them that even with side effects and seemingly endless combos that haven't worked yet, I am afraid to go without them. I have seen minor improvements since starting meds, but never lasting for more than a month at a time.

Of course, I may see an improvement because I am aware that there is a problem and I am working on it in therapy. Who really knows for sure.

[blueoctober]

seventyeight;have you tried or looked into ECT treatments? I haven't done it myself, but when I was in the hospital there was a patient with BP having it done and she swore by it.

[thinker22]

My experience was similar to others. Didn't get diagnosed with bipolar until I was 29, but had all the warning signs in childhood. Depression, then sudden hypomania for hours or days. At 20, during a depressive episode brought on by college stress the doc prescribed Paxil. I had a psychotic reaction and was doing dangerous things so I took myself off of it after 2 or 3 months. It was a horrible withdrawal period. I vowed to never use meds again. I had several mixed episodes since then (in retrospect I can see) where I drove across the country and back in 10 days with little to no sleep. I stopped and stayed with friends twice, so it was really only 5-6 days I did all that driving in. I also had an extremely sexual period from 2003-2004 (ending my virginity at 23 with a bang). Ha! I had hypomania almost the whole time I lived in SLC, Utah and Brooklyn, NY. Toward the end of that 2007, I experienced panic attacks and PTSD. When I moved here to OR, I hit rock bottom in summer of 2008 and went in to see the school's (oh I'm back in college again...started in 1998, this is number 4 for me) psychiatric nurse practitioner and she treated me as a unipolar patient, which I thought I was. The SSRIs made me lethargic or feel worse. Depression not solved at all. After a year and a trip to the hospital and coming on PC in 2009, I finally figured it out. I was bipolar. Then they started trying things like Lamictal and Seroquel on me, but I went into a manic episode last summer and stopped trusting the nurse and got in with a real psychiatrist.

Sorry this is getting so long. Basically, none of the med combos they've tried on me have totally helped. The longest normal stretch I've had since starting meds in Jun '08 has been a couple of weeks this past February. The psychiatrist I've seen for the past year has all but given up hope on me since they've tried so many combos to no avail. The latest med, Cymbalta, added this morning to my Geodon, Levothyroxin, Cogentin, diazepam cocktail, has certainly made me chattier than normal after I slept away the entire morning.

My mom thinks my bipolar has more to do with heavy metals poisoning (I've had a test and I do have elevated levels of lead and arsenic) and need of natural supplements, and other herbal remedies. I'd like to believe her, but I've only heard of some people who can do the omega fish oils and flush their meds. Most people have to take all the supplements like Vitamin D in huge quantities AND take their meds to get the full effects. I'm biased toward science. She's biased toward homeopathic remedies. So I take the pills she sends me and I take the ones my docs prescribe for me.

If the combo I'm on doesn't work, pdoc says I should consider ECT. That terrifies me. If it does work, everyone on PC is going to have to put up with my long replies because I actually have the clarity of mind to read and reply.

Good luck to you in your quest. It's a long road and plenty of dejecting dead ends before you reach euthymia.