being dishonest with a doctor

hamster-bamster · Jul 21, 2012, 07:59 PM

I thought I would never do it again, but it happens just like that.

Last time I saw my doctor I told her that my relationship with my ex is improving, that I had him and our children who live with him for dinner on Sunday and hope to make it into a tradition, that I do not want more but I do not want less either.

Now looking back I see that from what I told her she could have made a reasonable conclusion that I keep firm boundaries with my ex and see him weekly in a nice atmosphere. I did not tell her that I bombard him with calls and emails compulsively against his will, so she had no way of knowing.

Likewise, I told her, in the interest of time, that I impulsively bought massage. I did not tell her (but I told you guys) that I also bought Excel classes and a body fat percentage test and unlike you guys she did not think that I was hypomanic (I later realized that I had skipped Lithium). So again I do not tell her everything and she has no way of knowing. She is a good doctor, but even she cannot always see through the crap. And I sound much more composed in the doctor's office than I am in my real life, which I realize has been a hell of a problem for me - I do not present correctly and fully. They do not see the complete clinical picture.

How do you strive to be fully honest?

I once saw a psychologist who gave me very high functioning score and a few weeks later I attempted suicide. The psychologist was immature crap, my current doctor is eons better, but even she got deceived by what I do.

OK, so we at least we have identified the problem.

Anneinside · Jul 21, 2012, 08:30 PM

I don't know what to tell you because I am always honest with my doctor. We may not be able to get to everything in the time we have, but I always tell the most important things.

sunblossom · Jul 21, 2012, 08:34 PM

why bother a doctor if you are dishonest with them. isn't that just a waste of your time and money?

~Christina · Jul 21, 2012, 08:35 PM

I have struggled with depression and lied lied lied to my doctors for years regarding just how bad things were.. Many sucidal attempts some doctors where aware of a lot more they didn't know of , lots of risky behaviors, loads of job hoping and quitting great jobs just because I felt like it, lots of bad relationships.

I was diagnosed BP a little over a year ago after a trip to the psych ward for suicidal thoughts a hair away from actually doing it. I was so grateful to finally realize my actions and behaviors were in many ways due to chemical imbalance , not saying that I wasn't responsible for my actions but.. it sure did explain A LOT .

The hospital set up Appts with Pdoc and Tdoc and I am on the search for the right cocktail of meds. I realized that for me this was literally my last chance to get help and decided no matter how hard it would be ..I would be absolutly honest .. Has it been hard ? Oh holy hell YES ... I have started to answer a question with a sugar coated answer a few times and I just stop and start over, both my Pdoc and Tdoc appreciate my honesty as it helps them when deciding about treatments and options.

I guess my new motto is ...Why pay someone to help me if I'm not willing to be honest.. seems like a waste of my money

BNLsMOM · Jul 21, 2012, 08:43 PM

I am honest with my treatment team because I want the help I need. I figure they have heard everything before and won't be shocked by anything I say. I let it all out.

BuggsBunny · Jul 21, 2012, 08:52 PM

You just have to make a deal with yourself, Hamster. It's not worth going if you aren't going to tell the truth. I do understand the urge to lie, make yourself seem better than you are, or just to get out of being in trouble, but it really isn't worth it. You're paying (or someone is) a small fortune to see the pdoc and T. Think about what it is costing you each time you consider lying. Force yourself to look the doc straight in the eye when you are tempted to lie - for me, that's something I have a hard time doing, lying with a straight eye look. You could get drastic, make yourself tell your doc every time you lie. "Okay, I just lied to you. Let me try this over again." That'll cut the urge down pretty quick!

Hang in there, and keep the falsehoods to yourself. Straight on honest is the the best policy when dealing with people you are paying to help you.

ChristySpirals · Jul 21, 2012, 08:53 PM

I think it might be your bpd. In your mind you know you will be judged and you want to protect the professional/ patient relationship you have. Realistically now that you are away from the situation you can rationally see your error in judgement.

I vehnemently denied I was depressed/suicidal to my pdoc because I didn't know I was. I know that sounds bizarre not knowing you are suicidal. My head was always so busy trying to stay ahead of the game that I never had time to realize my kids were just barely having their needs met, the house went to $hit, my hubby walked on eggshells and every other relationship I had was on the brink of failure. I tried to tell him after and I felt like he didn't care or need to hear it.

Secretum · Jul 21, 2012, 09:17 PM

I can relate, Hamster. It's not that I lie-I just leave things out and downplay things slightly.

I have, however,made some recent efforts to be more honest. My T and pdoc know how suicidal I've been and they know about my hallucinations. My T (but not my pdoc) knows about the intense delusions I had at age 12 during my first depression.

I must say, I was impressed with their reactions .They didn't freak out. My pdoc simply upped my abilify. I was scared that honesty about suicidality would lead to hospitalization, but neither have even mentioned the hospital-even when I told my T that I had already written a note!

I plan to tell my pdoc about my psychotic experiences during my first depression at my next visit. I must admit, I am still scared. :O

BlackPup · Jul 21, 2012, 09:59 PM

I always try to be honest with my pdoc and T (when I used to have a T). Like others have said, whats the point in going if your not honest. They need all the information to make the best decisions for your health. Luckily I have a great relationship with my pdoc and used to have a great relationship with my T before I moved cities (I still drive to the next city to see my pdoc but its too far for weekly T!) Often I don't realise that Im depressed or hypomanic but by answering his questions it becomes clear - so I am lucky that he always seems to be able to figure things out even if I think I'm fine.

hamster-bamster · Jul 21, 2012, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChristySpirals

I think it might be your bpd. In your mind you know you will be judged and you want to protect the professional/ patient relationship you have. Realistically now that you are away from the situation you can rationally see your error in judgement.

Yes, I see how it might well be bpd. Ultimately the person whom I deceive is myself. I lose. If I told the doctor about Excel classes and body fat percentage testing AND massage, surely she would have pronounced me hypo. Then (possibly - possibly!) I might have been careful enough to abstain from calling my ex. It was all for the better though, he got his point across, I finally understood that I should not bombard him with calls and emails and knocks on the door, that he is entitled to his private life, that there is no court order obligating him to stay in touch with me. I feel relieved having finally understood that. I will respect his privacy now. I guess it is difficult to me because I am borderline. Which brings me back to your point - yes, I possibly lie because I am borderline. Btw on the sanity score the only thing that is REALLY high for me is borderline.

hamster-bamster · Jul 28, 2012, 11:37 AM

So I have two upcoming visits. On the 1st, I will see a T. He used to be my prescribing P-doc and he had one session of T with me in the past. So he knows me. But I feel it is important to tell him during the session that I have a problem with lying/withholding information and have his take on what he thinks should best help me be honest. I also have my first appt with a new p-doc at the county, as my p-doc left for VA. With him, I plan to tell the story of not disclosing all the items I have purchased and thus misleading the doctor into believing I was not hypo-manic. I will also tell him the story of getting a high functionality score in the weeks preceding the suicide attempt.

Does that seem enough, in terms of putting the treatment team on notice that lying is a problem?

~Christina · Jul 28, 2012, 09:12 PM

I think its a great idea to let them know you have had trouble in the past being truthful.

Seems like it will benefit you !

rosesarered · Jul 28, 2012, 09:47 PM

Promise to tell the whole truth, the full truth, and nothing but the truth.
I find its helpful for me to be honest by keeping a little notebook of the things I do
and when I do them and then basically just read it when I'm asked by my doc what's
going on. Maybe you could even print off your entries from here and just hand them over.
Then there is no way to lie.
In the end, the lying only hurts you. You can only be helped as much as you're willing
to be open.

BlueInanna · Jul 28, 2012, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hamster-bamster

Now looking back I see that from what I told her she could have made a reasonable conclusion that I keep firm boundaries with my ex and see him weekly in a nice atmosphere. I did not tell her that I bombard him with calls and emails compulsively against his will, so she had no way of knowing.

Likewise, I told her, in the interest of time, that I impulsively bought massage. I did not tell her (but I told you guys) that I also bought Excel classes and a body fat percentage test and unlike you guys she did not think that I was hypomanic (I later realized that I had skipped Lithium). So again I do not tell her everything and she has no way of knowing. She is a good doctor, but even she cannot always see through the crap. And I sound much more composed in the doctor's office than I am in my real life, which I realize has been a hell of a problem for me - I do not present correctly and fully. They do not see the complete clinical picture.

Hamster honey, I think you're being rough on yourself. We do run out of time at the pdoc appointments. You say here, that LOOKING BACK you realize you forgot to tell her important info. And that IN THE INTEREST OF TIME you didnt tell her every little thing you bought online.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but hadn't it been a while since you'd seen the pdoc? Sorry if I'm wrong. But when you are seeing her more regularly, you will not have to "catch up" so much on all the details. It doesn't sound like you were intentionally deceiving her. I don't consider you a liar, just it's hard to remember everything that's happened and what you need to relay to pdoc. And they ask questions too, and do their share of talking, which can send you off on a tangent.

Perhaps you could keep a little notebook with what you want to make sure to tell pdoc?

hamster-bamster · Jul 30, 2012, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rosesarered

Promise to tell the whole truth, the full truth, and nothing but the truth.
I find its helpful for me to be honest by keeping a little notebook of the things I do
and when I do them and then basically just read it when I'm asked by my doc what's
going on. Maybe you could even print off your entries from here and just hand them over.
Then there is no way to lie.
In the end, the lying only hurts you. You can only be helped as much as you're willing
to be open.

That is a great idea.

hamster-bamster · Jul 30, 2012, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueInanna

Hamster honey, I think you're being rough on yourself. We do run out of time at the pdoc appointments. You say here, that LOOKING BACK you realize you forgot to tell her important info. And that IN THE INTEREST OF TIME you didnt tell her every little thing you bought online.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but hadn't it been a while since you'd seen the pdoc? Sorry if I'm wrong. But when you are seeing her more regularly, you will not have to "catch up" so much on all the details. It doesn't sound like you were intentionally deceiving her. I don't consider you a liar, just it's hard to remember everything that's happened and what you need to relay to pdoc. And they ask questions too, and do their share of talking, which can send you off on a tangent.

Perhaps you could keep a little notebook with what you want to make sure to tell pdoc?

Yes, that is true, I had not seen her in a while. When I was seeing her weekly, it was MUCH easier to relate everything correctly. I am thinking of my upcoming Wed appt with a T and am shuddering: what out of the wealth of information am I going to tell him? Would non-disclosure "in the interest of time" amount to lying? I only have 50 mins.

BlueInanna · Jul 30, 2012, 02:13 PM

No, it's not lying if you don't have time to say everything. Maybe you could make a list of the things you think you should discuss, then try to order them in importance? Or even show T your list and work it out together?

And you deserve a pat on the back for stopping yourself with the spending thing. And for observing the healthy boundaries with exH

Odee · Jul 30, 2012, 06:53 PM

I write a paragraph down describing what I think my psychiatrist needs to know, what I want to ask, what's bothering me, and what I want to get out of the appointment. Today I had that paragraph right next to me, as I pulled it out along with my mood tracking papers. Too many times I have walked out of the doctors office and thought "Damn! I can't believe I forgot to mention something!!"

I try to be impeccably honest to my psych because I want her to trust me as well as I trust her. When I stop a med, I say so. Recently I drank for the first time....and I can't believe I didn't get scolded for it!

As when I do lie....I always downplay suicidal thoughts.

Victoria'smom · Jul 30, 2012, 10:13 PM

I do a mood/event/thought chart for my T. I ask T what Pdoc needs to be caught up on. I write notes about things I forgot and things I feel T should know between sessions. I turn it in before session and we talk about it then. I don't feel lying or missing details mean your wasting time/money it's just very confusing being in there.

best of luck on Wednesday.

hamster-bamster · Jul 31, 2012, 12:32 AM

I have this plan:

1) Update him on what happened to me psychiatrically after I left his medical care and what my current med combo is. It is quite different from what he prescribed.

2) Tell him that I got involved with this board and how it became important for me. Maybe examples.

3) Tell him that I must not bother my ex and need to engage him, T, fully to help me redirect my attention from ex to therapy

4) Tell him about D.

5) Mention withholding of information and seek his support.

I think this is enough. I think I will barely have time to cover all that.

Merlin · Jul 31, 2012, 01:26 AM

Sounds like a good plan. I've gotten better at telling pdoc the truth, but sometimes I forgot what is important too.

Moose72 · Jul 31, 2012, 01:41 AM

I dunno about my new as-of-yet-unseen T, but the T that just retired could tell if i was lying from a mile away- so I never did.

Merlin · Jul 31, 2012, 03:13 AM

I once told a T that I would never tell her if I was suicidal. She said she knew. I've gotten to the point where I will admit to suicidal ideation, but how can you have suicidal intent and admit it, isn't that contradictory. Luckily I haven't been there in a while, not since I lost my job, though even then I did not let my pdoc and T know how bad it was. Sometimes I think I should, but I don't want to admit to having lied over a year ago. Is it still relevent to tell pdoc?