Normal is Not Working

Wow — 33 years for me, too! And I have the same ‘what do you think will be best for you?’ reactions from MDshrinks. I can’t recall the last time that I heard, ‘let’s try >>new med<< for a bit.’

When folks list their RXs here I don’t know many of them. I’m on the same meds now as I was twenty-years ago. All generic, now. A very, very low dose of an antidepressant and very, very high doses of antipsychotics. And Xanax. I quite understand the desire for pdocs to be more doctorly.

I’m counting the days until I see my therapist/shrink next week. It will be our second meeting and I hope that I can quickly learn how she operates.

Hope today/tomorrow, you’ll have a good one.

I do not understand the statement that normal is not working for you. So you want to be more tenuously connected to the reality around you just for you to be on a high? Remember, mania give you a distorted lens to view your life through even though it may be perceived different by you. MJ can do this for you as well. The two seem similar, particularly if the weed is spiked with some halluconegin, like PCP. I hear LSD can do this for you too.

Well, maybe I do not understand your situation well enough. This is always a possibility. I apologize to you profusely if this is the case. Maybe I am in an aggressive mood right now. If this is the case, I again apologize to you. However, having been here on PC for several years, I have never seen someone changing their meds by themselves turn out well. Seeing how active a poster you have been for several years, IMO I also think you should know better. It behooves you to consider my advice. But I do understand that the choice is yours. I respect this. I really do hope it works out for you. By the way, being sedated is not listed as a side effect for Lamotragine. You already knew that, right?

Well, I think I will be silent for the rest of the day. Maybe I have already hurt someone here? Moods, moods, moods. Oh well. I still believe in what I said even though I could of used better words to describe my thoughts to you.

Yeah, you sound a little edgy. Nevertheless, I appreciate your input. Have you read this whole post? It's fine if you haven't, but you've mentioned some points that I've brought up already.

First, I realize that sedation is not listed as a common side effect of Lamictal. But it can be a side effect and for me, just about every psych med I've ever been on is sedating. It's very annoying to be fighting sleep all day, every day- AFTER sleeping for 10 hours at night That sedation itself causes depression, to a degree.

No, mj has a very odd effect on me. First of all, it makes me anxious. And then my mind feels all fuzzy and I hate the sensation of that. Although, with medicinal cannabis being mostly legal here in Calif I understand there are strains that are helpful for mental health issues. I'm not ready to try that, though.

I dropped acid once (LSD). It was extremely disappointing, because guess what it did?....It made me feel perfectly normal! That was some years prior to my diagnosis of bipolar disorder. I thought it was strange at the time, because with my own mind I saw brighter colors and heard greater music than the LSD provided. Talk about a waste of money....

BUT have you heard about the possibility that certain psychedelics can treat some mental illnesses? It's being greatly researched now. (Perhaps Tim Leary and Ken Kesey were onto something, although I think they overdid their experimentation.) I'm not surprised, since my own experience with LSD was that it caused me to feel very "in the middle". Neither up, nor down, nothing odd or unusual, whatsoever.

I don't feel "high" just being myself. Now, if I get manic it starts with a feeling of being high - meh....sort-of. More "powerful" than "high". Not high like a substance high, not at all. Just...high on life. Bear in mind: I am not stopping the Lamictal entirely. I have just lowered the dose. If I still feel better by Sunday I am going to assume that the lower dose is of benefit to me. It is entirely possible that the Lamictal dose I've been on for the past month is simply too much, and is causing me to feel very flat, even to the point of feeling somewhat depressed.

I'm a naturally very creative person. I immensely enjoy it when music and when colors are especially vivid and beautiful. If I have to work to see magnificent colors or hear extraordinary music, that's not a way for me to live. Of course I feel depressed then.

As for changing my meds without consulting my pdoc - well, I'll see her Tuesday. As I already mentioned in this thread, I've been on psych meds for 33 years. Anymore, my pdocs ask me what I think is best for me...which meds and how much. They certainly offer suggestions and share experience, but for the most part I guess they figure I pretty much have the med thing down by now. As in...I know my body well and have very good insight about how I'm doing emotionally, etc.

I agree that for most people changing meds on their own is not wise. For people who have spent many decades on meds and have a good, honest insight into their own behavior - are not in denial - I think it's fine to adjust medication a bit here or there, especially when a pdoc appointment is scheduled soon. I haven't had any pdocs in some years disagree with me on that.

So. I definitely take your comments seriously. I am grateful that you took time to reply to my post. Believe me, I will monitor my behavior carefully and see how I'm doing over the week-end.

Greetings amicus_curiae, I don't know how I missed your posts last night when I replied to Tucson.

Thank you so very much for your replies, and for your kindness. I want to let you know that you have my tremendous respect. I not only enjoy your posts on PC; I find them extremely insightful and well-articulated. You have a gem of a personality and a genuine intellect.

I wrote something of an essay-length reply to Tucson; I don't want to repeat what I wrote and bore readers of this thread, so if you want to, take a look at my reply above. Again...thank you.

By the way, many years ago I was on a low dose of Thorazine and found it quite helpful. I think that a lot of pdocs and patients fear Thorazine because of the old stereotypes about it being a "chemical straight-jacket" or have a mental image of the dreaded "thorazine shuffle". What they might not realize is that way back, Thorazine was prescribed in extremely high doses, whereas now it is usually prescribed in a much lower amount.
More is not always better.

Oh god. YES, 99% of psych meds sedate me too. It SUCKS.

For me, being flat is in many ways the same as being depressed. Either way, I don't enjoy life. What were once vivid colors are now shades of grey, what was once beautiful sunshine is now merely just a dull light in the sky, what was once happiness is now apathy.

I don't have much else to add, but I know how you feel. Whether it's depression or flatness, it's pretty much all the same to me. I even get suicidal thoughts when I'm flat, but it's more like, "I never will enjoy life this way. Things WON'T get better as long as I stay on this med. That is a hard fact."

Hope you feel better soon, though. In fact, I'm sure you will. I just hate the agony of this waiting game to see which med cocktail works best.

Spot on, blue. SPOT on. Yes- depression and flatness...I cannot discern the difference between the two; one is the other.
One of my concerns about these past few weeks is that I have had a very occasional, but very unsettling, thoughts of self-destruction.

I think one of the more challenging aspects of having bipolar disorder is that we change so dramatically, so often. That makes an effective medication cocktail especially difficult to find.

Third day on 1/2 dose (75 mg) of Lamictal and I'm feeling good. A brief bit of somewhat alarming anxiety this morning, but it passed. I have not felt depressed today and not uncontrollably sleepy. My stomach is less irritated (I was having some stomach cramping/heartburn on the higher dose). One very unfortunate aspect of dropping the dose is that my back pain has returned somewhat. (I was not prescribed Lamictal for chronic pain, but it was helping my back pain, interestingly.)

I’ve responded to posts here in anger and that’s what I think you’ve done, maybe?

As for the title of the thread, I think that it’s fully euphemistic and encompassing and... well, a hoot.

Just keep it up, then. Lamictal is used for chronic pain? I’ll need to give that a look.

Glad that your getting better — and sorry for the back pain.

amicus_curiae, You are a treasure. You've brought an inspiring perspective to PC.

When I mentioned to my pdoc that my miserable, relentless back pain (had it for 2 years from an injury sustained by carrying a large flat of water bottles hiked up on my shoulder, up a flight of stairs) had alleviated since being on Lamictal she said, Not surprising, since Lamictal is sometimes used to treat neuropathy and other forms of chronic pain. Ha. Who knew.

So far, so good today. I feel good, balanced, no sign of that manic fire-lit anger; slept plenty.

Here is some info that you may find helpful. As far as my research goes, Lamotragine is being used as a third line of treatment for refractory trigeminal neuralgia and peripheral neuropathy. These are specific terms referring to specific types of pain caused by specific maladies. I have found no other condition involving pain that this med treats. This does include back pain. A couple different studies support this. BTW neuropathy involves the symptoms from damaged nerves. The article Lamotrigine | InHealth Pain Management Solutions provides a more complete listing of conditions related to the type of pain that this med treats. The jury appears to be out on fibromyalgia.

FYI Flat affect is not listed as a side effect for Lamotragine. There are APs with this listed side effect. According to my research, Lamotragine acts differently from APs and other mood stabilizers in mood regulation. Instead of being used to prevent ones mood to swing up into mania, it decreases the number of occurrences of mood swings. This is the key difference between this med and others used to stabilize mood. This is probably why many docs do not find this med sufficient and prescribe other meds in conjunction with lamotragine to regulate mood. So IMO based on this research I doubt it is this med that has caused you your flat affect. But we shall see. Good luck.

As you can see, I have done my research on psychotropic meds, more specifically the meds that I am prescribed. You likely have done the same. For that matter, your decades experience with lamotragine and other meds must of made you aware of all this. So this is probably no news to you.

PS By this post, I am trying to help you make intelligent decisions regarding your use of meds. I do not think I am judging you with this post. As you know, at the very least, you need to do your due diligence before changing your meds by yourself. At least I hope this is the case for you.

Flatness for me means I can still function just feel kinda blah.
Depression is completely different it makes me unfunctionable and in a deep dark hole.

It is entirely possible that the injury I have in my back is a neuropathy. It is also possible that I have fibromyalgia. I have suspected so for many years, especially since my mother and my sister had/have it, were diagnosed with it long ago. My mother also had lupus, which is something that has frequently come up as a possiblity for my own medical condition. (Lupus can cause chronic and debilitating pain.) I have many of the symptoms of both fibro and lupus.

Whatever the case, Lamictal has helped relieve my back pain, without a doubt.

As for flat affect, it sure is listed as a possible side effect of Lamotrigine. Not only is it listed on various sites, many patients on the medication complain of flat affect.

Interesting, this quote from a person on a psych meds forum: "Rule of thumb with 'stable meds': 'If you are either not too happy about good events and nor too sad with disappointments' that means that meds are actually working."

To me, that ^^^^ feels like "flat affect".So we might be getting into semantics, here.I have no doubt that the Lamictal at the higher dose caused me to feel "flat" or "blah". That feeling in turn causes me to feel mildly depressed.It feels like I am a cardboard cutout of myself.

Add this in: Lamotrigine when taken with Klonopin is a very different medication than Lamotrigene alone or with certain other meds.I am on 2 mg. of Klonopin daily...picture changed.

I appreciate all that you've shared, and I appreciate your concern about me self-managing the Lamotrigine. I'm not exactly clear, though, on why it bothers you so much?

I'm an intelligent, insightful person who has decades of experience with psych meds. I'm not playing around with my medication; I truly believe that the dose of Lamictal I was on was too high. As I've mentioned, I'll speak with my pdoc on Tuesday. I'll inform her of everything that's going on with me and see where she suggests I go from here. It's possible that even though Lamictal is a fabulous medication for 100,000,000 people - it might not be the best one for me.

Yes, I understand your description. True depression for me is a horrifying, dangerous state of being. And frankly, I did not want to take the chance that the Lamictal might send me into a real depression. BUT I have to say that even while inside of a severe depression (and the anxiety that usually accompanies it) I do function. I take care of what needs to be taken care of and most likely no one would even know I'm depressed unless I disclosed it.

What I've been calling a "mild depression" is a feeling of blah, a degree of hopelessness, drudgery, a lack of inspiration...an absence of meaningful sound and color....an absence of meaning, in general. I cannot - won't - live like that. To me, living like that is survival, feels similar to being in a concentration camp; it is not a life well-lived.

bizi and key tones...Thank you both for the *hugs*

Late afternoon Sunday...

My mood is fine. No irritability or anger. Well...I'm angry at the situation in Sacramento (my home town) regarding the murder of Stephon Clark. I fully support the protestors. But I'm no angrier than any thinking person around here.

Had some tattoo touch-up done this morning, that was nice.

So, mood stable. Perception still "normal". Not as vivid as I'd like...still not quite seeing through "my own eyes".

Feeling quite desperate to speak with pdoc on Tuesday, get her input on this situation.

I’m glad you’re feeling OK...and hang in there for Tuesday

Thank you, sweetheart. So much.

Aww, Laurie—you’re welcome. You are a dear

Thanks so very much! I see my pdoc/therapist Tuesday. I’m going to, at the least, mention it... my neuropathy is horrific. I no longer have feeling in my hands so I do stupid things... burn my hand removing a platter from the oven, etc. I can no longer write in any legible hand but I have 986 pads of writing that I started in 2011. I could write using a computer keyboard but my computer was stolen and all I have remaining is a 12.9” iPad Pro(circa 2015). I purchased the Apple keyboard ‘cover’ but it really doesn’t help, much.

Arg.

Terrific post! I read the PDR entry but the synopsis of your research is really appreciated. No, I don’t believe that you were judgmental in any manner in writing this message!

In re: Stephon Clark

This is the kind of revolving-door natural order-of-the-day killing that really gets to me, under my skin and into my heart. I don’t want to preach any particular political creed as I view these killings as part and parcel of our systematic and morally repugnant police state.

That’s all I’ll say about that.

I’m so glad to hear that you’re better. We had a nice day. I went out for 10-15 minutes — a personal best.

Ah! My tattoo is fairly new (5 months) and is beginning to look very colorful — bright red, neon yellow, fake-bunny-greenish-straw — and I’ve given up button-up shirts in favor of t-shirts that keep my tattoo exposed.

I was really in a lot of physical pain today. I’ve smoked more med/weed than usual and I actually feel a little ‘high.’ Or just mellow, I guess.

I listened to all albums by The Roches today (those available on Apple Music). I was a not-so-dedicated punk when I first heard their eponymous first album as a trio. I (poorly) wrote some notes whilst listening. I miss them. I miss Maggie.

Oh, man. I am so very old.

So are you.

Ah, the Roaches! I was a pretty hard-core punk back when....still carry much of that with me. In tribute I have a little anarchy symbol on my hand. Tattooed, I mean.

Police state INDEED.

I'm so sorry about the neuropathy. Miserable. Please do inquire about a med to help treat the pain...Lamictal, apparently Gabapentin and even a few others.

Welcome back, amicus curiae...welcome, to the machine.

Glad tomorrow is Tuesday so I can speak with both therapist and pdoc.

I have remained at the 75 mg. dose of Lamictal. My mood is very stable, no depression or outstanding anxiety. Still feeling fairly "flat", though. I am unhappy with that feeling. And so sleepy. The sleepiness might be hang-over from nighttime Seroquel.