This is so stupid.

My pdoc said I have bipolar and to take my meds. I said, "No, these meds are going to give me dementia or Alzheimer's." Then he said, "People with bipolar generally don't live long enough to reach dementia, so you have nothing to worry about."

WTF

FTR, my grandma had dementia and bipolar, but in all fairness, she wasn't on any APs until toward the end of her life. This leads me to believe that my grandma would have never lived long enough to reach dementia if she had taken APs. (i.e., she would have died long before she reached the 76 year old mark when she first started exhibiting signs of dementia.)

But my dad doesn't have bipolar, nor does my mom. So what's the point in connecting me to my grandma? I think that's a lie excuse on my pdoc's part. Plus, he just wants to control my mind. He's trying to implant devices in my head via meds. I don't trust him and I will NEVER take these devices (i.e., "meds") again. He can lock me up all he wants, but I'm never going to take them because I know how this game is played.

Oh, and to add to the pain... my phone murdered itself in its sleep 2 nights ago, so I can't even talk to my therapist or text anyone. I have to wait until I get a new phone. The motherboard apparently stopped working and there's NO WAY TO RECOVER ANYTHING according to the people in the Verizon store. So now I've lost everyone's phone number and all of my pictures. I am seething.

Sorry for the rant.

[liveforsummer]

I think your pdocs comment was unkind and inappropriate. I’m sorry you are having these difficulties with your care.
That sucks about your phone.
We all need a good rant sometimes!

Originally Posted by liveforsummer

I think your pdocs comment was unkind and inappropriate. I’m sorry you are having these difficulties with your care.
That sucks about your phone.
We all need a good rant sometimes!

I agree with liveforsummer's cooment above.

bluebicycle, I think you're statement about bipolar meds and dementia/Alzheimers is overblown and reflects catastrophizing. But if you're never going to budge on that idea, then do what you want.

Do you think it is at all possible that this is the disorder speaking, as can happen in certain types of bipolar?

[sarahsweets]

Since when did AP's give dementia?

[Crook32]

Did you never back your phone up?

Originally Posted by sarahsweets

Since when did AP's give dementia?

Well, I was reading this about reduction of grey matter due to APs:
Antipsychotic Dose Tied to Decrease in Gray Matter

And then, here is info about dementia/Alzheimer's with respect to grey matter:
How Gray Matter is Affected by Dementia

Originally Posted by Crook32

Did you never back your phone up?

No. I never really thought about it until, well, my phone died.

I'm going to back it up from now on, so "lesson learned" I guess. It's a pretty sh_tty way to learn that lesson, though.

[Wild Coyote]

Hey Blue,

I am very sorry your pdoc said that to you.

Please think very carefully about meds and whether to take them or not. I really care about you and want to see you do well.

I am sorry about your phone.
Verizon, in this area, backs up contacts in phones. My mom's phone died and we were able to put all of her contacts into her new phone by connecting to their data back-up. I forget now how we did that. Verizon gave us directions and we did it from home (with her new phone.) I hope you are able to do something similar.

I have a busy day and will have to read the links you have given sometime this weekend.

Thinking of you!
Much Love,

WC

[MickeyCheeky]

I'm so sorry, bluebicycle That comment was certainly rude and totally uncalled for. I'm so sorry you have to put up with this. As for the meds, I'd suggest to think carefully about it. For many people, meds have been a lifesaver. If you're struggling, I'd suggest to try it - at least with a low dosage. I understand your fears, but please think carefully about this. Wish you good luck! Let us know how it goes. Sending many hugs to you

[tecomsin]

Originally Posted by bluebicycle

Plus, he just wants to control my mind. He's trying to implant devices in my head via meds. I don't trust him and I will NEVER take these devices (i.e., "meds") again. He can lock me up all he wants, but I'm never going to take them because I know how this game is played.

That statement about bipolar people not living long enough to develop dementia is totally out of line and I can see why you would be frustrated with this pdoc. If you really believe that he wants to control your mind, do you think it might be worth finding another pdoc or do you think all pdocs want to control your mind?

FWIW if I were having thoughts of someone wanting to implant devices in my brain, people would be understandably concerned about my sanity.

[Victoria'smom]

I take meds because it's meds or involuntary hospitalization. No therapist will work with me off medication. I can't constantly be in and out of the hospital and be there for my family. The hospital sucks and I'm avoiding it at all costs. As for mind control meds are mind numbing but at least for me not mind control. I would get a crap pre-paid phone for like $15 and look up your T's number. You really really need to talk to him/her. Do you trust your T?

[Scooter9]

I just read one of the papers you linked to and it says this ....

" patients treated with just SGAs, a significant decrease in volume was not found. Previous studies have also found that SGAs have less of an effect on brain volume, yet even a smaller effect may have significant implications."

Sga=second generation antipsychotics

So they say the newer drugs are ok.

Keep in mind that this was a meta analysis which means they took the results of other studies that were not necessarily looking for this and used their results. Basically they highlighted a curiosity in the data and recommend further study.

I too worry about the long term effect of antipsychotics but it is whatever it is. I choose to take it because I want to be able to live my life, have a family, have a job, enjoy what I can now. I don't even know if I'll be around tomorrow let alone whether I'll make it to 80 - life happens.

The disease changes over time and I'm hoping I won't have to be as medicated in the future or maybe not at all, who knows.

[neverending]

I m not sure what you consider long term. I m in my 60s and have been taking APs steadily since my 20s. I started when I was 18. From 22 until 28 I guess I was off them and from then on have never been off them again. So I have taken both old and new generation APs. I don't have dementia or memory problems. And I am not at death's door either. I don't know how much longer I will live but it doesn't seem as though I will have an early death due to bipolar. So I don't believe APs cause dementia. In addition I take benzodiazepines and suffer no ill effects from them either. So sometimes the meds aren't so bad. I have had very bad effects from the ones I can't take but on the right cocktail of meds I seem to be doing ok. So don't let the fear of meds ruin what could possibly work. For me too it is a choice of taking meds or going in and out of the hospital. I much prefer the meds.

Originally Posted by tecomsin

That statement about bipolar people not living long enough to develop dementia is totally out of line and I can see why you would be frustrated with this pdoc. If you really believe that he wants to control your mind, do you think it might be worth finding another pdoc or do you think all pdocs want to control your mind?

FWIW if I were having thoughts of someone wanting to implant devices in my brain, people would be understandably concerned about my sanity.

I think I am misunderstood by people in the psych field. I think they want to control me because they just don't understand who I am or what my life is like. They just assume the worst of me and want to control my mind because they think that's what's "best" for me.

My current pdoc is just reading notes that my previous pdoc had left, so he's just blindly following what that other guy wrote. If I were to get a new pdoc, the new pdoc would just read all the notes and do the same thing. They just won't hear me out.

Originally Posted by Miguel'smom

I take meds because it's meds or involuntary hospitalization. No therapist will work with me off medication. I can't constantly be in and out of the hospital and be there for my family. The hospital sucks and I'm avoiding it at all costs. As for mind control meds are mind numbing but at least for me not mind control. I would get a crap pre-paid phone for like $15 and look up your T's number. You really really need to talk to him/her. Do you trust your T?

Yeah, I trust my therapist. She hasn't done anything wrong to me. She's pretty nice and understanding.

I just got my new phone, so all I have to do is look up her number now and call her. It just took forever at the Verizon store to get everything situated... I was there for 2 hours...

I'm going to leave her a voicemail now, so we'll see what she has to say. I fortunately have an appt with her on Wednesday, so we'll definitely have a lot of time to talk.

Originally Posted by Scooter9

I just read one of the papers you linked to and it says this ....

" patients treated with just SGAs, a significant decrease in volume was not found. Previous studies have also found that SGAs have less of an effect on brain volume, yet even a smaller effect may have significant implications."

Sga=second generation antipsychotics

So they say the newer drugs are ok.

Keep in mind that this was a meta analysis which means they took the results of other studies that were not necessarily looking for this and used their results. Basically they highlighted a curiosity in the data and recommend further study.

I too worry about the long term effect of antipsychotics but it is whatever it is. I choose to take it because I want to be able to live my life, have a family, have a job, enjoy what I can now. I don't even know if I'll be around tomorrow let alone whether I'll make it to 80 - life happens.

The disease changes over time and I'm hoping I won't have to be as medicated in the future or maybe not at all, who knows.

I just want another opinion on whether or not I have bipolar. I don't trust my other opinions.

It's good to know that 2nd gen antipsychotics aren't as dangerous, but given that dementia "runs in the family," I think I have valid concerns. Antipsychotics are just another trigger for dementia if they reduce the grey matter in the brain, whether the reduction in grey matter is "significant" or not. And, if I play devil's advocate by saying that antipsychotics don't cause dementia, what about the fact antipsychotics increase the risk of death in the elderly? That's a warning on nearly all antipsychotic prescription papers you get from the pharmacy. So either way, antipsychotics significantly impact the end of your life.

There is always mental health vs physical health. I prefer to be physically healthy. I don't want any neurodegenerative (sp?) conditions.

[tecomsin]

Originally Posted by bluebicycle

I think I am misunderstood by people in the psych field. I think they want to control me because they just don't understand who I am or what my life is like. They just assume the worst of me and want to control my mind because they think that's what's "best" for me.

My current pdoc is just reading notes that my previous pdoc had left, so he's just blindly following what that other guy wrote. If I were to get a new pdoc, the new pdoc would just read all the notes and do the same thing. They just won't hear me out.

Once a person has had documented psychotic symptoms, it's going to be a high priority to look out for that.

Do you feel now that you never had symptoms of psychosis? I am having trouble reconciling some of your present posts with some from the past.

I have had the tendency to minimize my past thought disturbances when I was in a more normal frame of mind. I also try to minimize the medications I take but I want to be sure the psychotic symptoms remain at bay and don't return. I am also tired of going to the hospital. It is just not worth it to have another severe episode and a low dose of an AP is the price I have to pay. It is mind numbing but my normal mind is unwell.

Originally Posted by neverending

I m not sure what you consider long term. I m in my 60s and have been taking APs steadily since my 20s. I started when I was 18. From 22 until 28 I guess I was off them and from then on have never been off them again. So I have taken both old and new generation APs. I don't have dementia or memory problems. And I am not at death's door either. I don't know how much longer I will live but it doesn't seem as though I will have an early death due to bipolar. So I don't believe APs cause dementia. In addition I take benzodiazepines and suffer no ill effects from them either. So sometimes the meds aren't so bad. I have had very bad effects from the ones I can't take but on the right cocktail of meds I seem to be doing ok. So don't let the fear of meds ruin what could possibly work. For me too it is a choice of taking meds or going in and out of the hospital. I much prefer the meds.

A lot of antipsychotics can cause tardive dyskinesia (sp?) too, though, as well as metabolic syndrome and liver/kidney issues -- so it's not just dementia that you have to worry about. But I am still primarily concerned about dementia. I think 60s is a bit young for dementia to occur, but if we're talking 70s and 80s, then the risk is greater, especially since a good chunk of our grey matter has been destroyed.

I've never been to the hospital before, so I can't speak to that.

Originally Posted by tecomsin

Once a person has had documented psychotic symptoms, it's going to be a high priority to look out for that.

Do you feel now that you never had symptoms of psychosis? I am having trouble reconciling some of your present posts with some from the past.

I have had the tendency to minimize my past thought disturbances when I was in a more normal frame of mind. I also try to minimize the medications I take but I want to be sure the psychotic symptoms remain at bay and don't return. I am also tired of going to the hospital. It is just not worth it to have another severe episode and a low dose of an AP is the price I have to pay. It is mind numbing but my normal mind is unwell.

No, I don't feel that I've had symptoms of psychosis. I think my issue is that I have misinterpreted things in my past and that that misinterpretation itself can be misinterpreted as something else. So it's just one big misinterpretation problem imo. When you're tired, you're just not as alert and sometimes confused.

I've never been forced into the hospital, either. I've never had a reason to go.

[tecomsin]

What about the ghost that was putting psychic visions whose description has a trigger warning here: Ghosts talking to me -- is this real?

Originally Posted by tecomsin

What about the ghost that was putting psychic visions whose description has a trigger warning here: Ghosts talking to me -- is this real?

Among numerous others (T telepathically yelling at you etc.)
Blue, I'm worried about you....

[bizi]

yes I agree with the others and have posted to you.
You have written about some psychosis before.
Now you are denying these symptoms.

I too am worried for you.
bizi

[tecomsin]

I would have psychotic symptoms and then minimize them when I wasn't having them. It took about a decade for me to finally accept that I had a psychotic illness that wasn't going away. it is hard to accept when the symptoms wax and wane. Unfortunately I believe each episode does brain damage and I believe taking a low dose AP does less than repeated episodes would do plus the damage to my life that has occurred. Of course I dont' want to be projecting the downward spiral my illness took even though I was in regular psychiatric care all through it.

I believe I coudl have avoided the worst outcomes by accepting it earlier. I fancied I had a neurological problem rather than a psychiatric one.

[Wild Coyote]

I have been thinking of you, wondering how things are going for you.

I hope they are going well.

I am also very concerned about you.
I hope you will let us know how you are doing.

Please take care.

WC