As a follow-up to the poll I created on hypomanic/manic episodes, this one is asking for approximate numbers of depressive episodes. In this poll, I have included an option "0 episodes" only because depressive episodes are not required for diagnosis of bipolar type 1 disorder, though I know most with bipolar 1 do have them. According to the DSM-5, people with bipolar type 2 must have had at least 1 depressive episode.

The following is a repeat of text I included in the hypo/manic one, but reversed.

I know that mixed episodes and ultra ultra rapid cycling are experienced by many. Perhaps consider counting it as a depressive episode, if the mixed episode or ultra ultra rapid cycling was more severe on the depressive end than the hypo/manic end. And though I know some people dislike the DSM-5, perhaps count "depressive episodes" as ones that lasted at least 2 weeks in duration. This time length is a DSM-5 criteria.

If you're willing, consider adding a post mentioning how many years you've had bipolar disorder, with your choice from the poll. I realize some episodes are educated guesses, from years before formal diagnosis.

I have had FAR too many depressive episodes to even begin counting. I get depressed more often than I get (hypo)manic.

I started getting depressed around age 12/13, and now I'm 29. So, I have no idea how many I've had in the past 15+ years. If I look back, some of my depressive episodes lasted months at a time. Even worse, they'd go away after 2-3 months, but then 1-2 months afterwards, I would get depressed again for another 2-3 months. I think the (hypo)manic stuff didn't really happen until age 15.

I'm 49 years old. My first bipolar episodes were probably when I was 14/15. I know that I had a depressive episode that lasted more than 2 weeks then. It was severe enough that I was unable to go to school and almost failed my grade because of the absences. I recall it transitioning into a severe mixed state, which caused a rather traumatic thing to happen, and for the school to require I be sent to therapy (which lasted only 2 sessions). They also suggested that my parents send me to a private school, where my mood switched to a pure elated mania. So I believe my first severe bipolar episode was depression. If I had hypomania or mania before that, I can't be sure.

I chose the "6 to 10" as the number of depressive episodes in my life. I believe the actual number was 7 or 8. This is fewer than the number of hypomanic/manic episodes I've experienced, which were clearly closer to 20+. Other than the depression at 14/15, my worst depressive episodes were at 20 years old (issues at university), 23 (taken to hospital in Taiwan), 38 (had ECT), and slightly less severe ones at 40/41 and 44/45. After that, I had some very mild to max moderate depressive periods, but they were not long-lasting.

[~Christina]

I wasnt diagnosed until age 43, but looking back we have traced it about to age 6 there was one of those "uncles" I had no desire to live. was just awful. Looking back in my 20's and 30's sometimes were absolute hell.. One resulted in a OD and almost a week in ICU. Looking back my life over all???? Its in screaming neon lights of " Bipolar" Id get down and Id go see my Medical Doctor and get on a AD which looking back worked way to fast then I was Hypo/Mania for months on end.

As I have gotten older Id like to say my depressions are not as severe but no.... but when I do fall into one..... I really have to struggle to pull myself out of them.

My chronic pain really plays into the depression part of my life.. I mean who can be in awful pain 24/7 and not get depressed over it all ??

Somedays I wake up and think Oh Shyt I'm still alive

I chose 6-10 (probably closer to 10) if we're counting depression as lasting longer than two weeks. My first depression lasted a long time (years), but other than that my "depressions" are usually short-lived. I think I've only had bipolar disorder for about 10 years now.

Originally Posted by ~Christina

I wasnt diagnosed until age 43, but looking back we have traced it about to age 6 there was one of those "uncles" I had no desire to live. was just awful. Looking back in my 20's and 30's sometimes were absolute hell.. One resulted in a OD and almost a week in ICU. Looking back my life over all???? Its in screaming neon lights of " Bipolar" Id get down and Id go see my Medical Doctor and get on a AD which looking back worked way to fast then I was Hypo/Mania for months on end.

As I have gotten older Id like to say my depressions are not as severe but no.... but when I do fall into one..... I really have to struggle to pull myself out of them.

My chronic pain really plays into the depression part of my life.. I mean who can be in awful pain 24/7 and not get depressed over it all ??

Somedays I wake up and think Oh Shyt I'm still alive

I would be so sad if you weren't with us. I want everyone with us, but wishing all much less stress and pain in the future for brighter days. I am so sorry you had to go through what you did. I believe my first depression was triggered by a distressing event, but far less so than yours when I put it into perspective.

We're strong gals and guys here, what we've been through!

Bluebicycle, spikes, and Christina, thanks for helping to get this thread started. I have a feeling that this may be an even more interesting one than the hypo/manic one, for me, for some reason. Thanks for sharing on this topic.

[~Christina]

Your Welcome ...

One thing I do think plays a part to remember depressive episode maybe more so..... is because Hypo/Mania is just freaking fun and the world is bright and shiny, Colors talk to us, Puppy and kittens, We are up up up and can do amazing things ( maybe they aren't but we sure think they are)

Often Bipolar brains have a tendency to "forget" the bad stuff, Depression is crushing, so we often forget how long we have been in its hellish box.. Which I think is something that Bipolar is kind to us, We forget some of the depressive hell.

I was dealing with a rough depression 5-6 years ago, I still was going about my daily stuff, but nothing made me laugh or smile. I felt hopeless and just didnt give a damn.. Well as I started to pull out of it, while seeing my T he said there it is a half a smile!!! I said so what.. He told me I had been in that depression about 5 months, I had no clue, honestly felt like 4 maybe 5 weeks..

So in some ways there is kindness in the Bipolar we deal with.

[bpcyclist]

I said 6 to 10, but it is an estimate. My bp 1 was clearly childhood onset, but the first depressive episode was not until age 17. Had another one at 23, another at 28, and another at 41. Some others. By far the worst series of them was from ages 41-44, with a couple of very dangerous S attempts. It is literally a miracle that I am alive. Literally, a miracle.

Mine have lasted different lengths of time, but some have been as long as maybe a year or so. They can be quite treatment-resistant and I have been on maybe 30 antidepressants of various types over the years. Virtually none have helped. I personally believe our current and past strategies for developing antidepressants is totally off target. Just an opinion, but I think we are missing the molecular basis for many, many patients' depression by being focused on sserotonin so much, which, in my opinion, is not the primary driver of most depression in humans. I believe the future is in glutamate/NMDA receptor research. I think this is why ketamine and other related compounds are/is so miraculous for some patients. Just an opinion, though.

I agree that the memory of my pain somewhat fades with time, which is n o doubt, a protective mechanism. But when it is bad, it is truly life-threatening.

[Sometimes psychotic]

Maybe two.....they were situation specific though so I’m not sure if they were due to my bipolar or not. First was finding out my mom had stage IV cancer, second was the same for my younger sister. But technically I was clinically depressed for 2-3 weeks each time.

[Sometimes psychotic]

Originally Posted by bpcyclist

I said 6 to 10, but it is an estimate. My bp 1 was clearly childhood onset, but the first depressive episode was not until age 17. Had another one at 23, another at 28, and another at 41. Some others. By far the worst series of them was from ages 41-44, with a couple of very dangerous S attempts. It is literally a miracle that I am alive. Literally, a miracle.

Mine have lasted different lengths of time, but some have been as long as maybe a year or so. They can be quite treatment-resistant and I have been on maybe 30 antidepressants of various types over the years. Virtually none have helped. I personally believe our current and past strategies for developing antidepressants is totally off target. Just an opinion, but I think we are missing the molecular basis for many, many patients' depression by being focused on sserotonin so much, which, in my opinion, is not the primary driver of most depression in humans. I believe the future is in glutamate/NMDA receptor research. I think this is why ketamine and other related compounds are/is so miraculous for some patients. Just an opinion, though.

I agree that the memory of my pain somewhat fades with time, which is n o doubt, a protective mechanism. But when it is bad, it is truly life-threatening.

Nmda is tricky if you overstimulate it it’s actually neurotoxic....so it’s a dangerous game if hypofunction is the issue. That’s why they’ve tried regulatory modulators like grm3...but that never worked out.

The topic of forgetting the pain of depression is a very interesting one. Thanks, Christina, for bringing that up! I have experienced something similar with depression, but more with the ones that didn't have clear major stress/trauma triggers.For those, the memory of pain is blurry, but of course I remember they happened and I've definitely been affected by them, in various ways.For example, a few times here at PC I've made reference to some trust issues that started around 14/15. That was the year I believe my bipolar disorder really took off, and one of the episodes that was clearly triggered by mental distress (as opposed to mood switch from mania). Various tendencies have been present throughout my life. I seemed to be able to tolerate ramifications more in my youth. Just as bpcylist said the worst of his depressions were later in life, so were mine, but more in my early to late 30s than my 40s. Actually, what really damaged me, psychologically, the most were my most severe episodes, which were mixed episodes with psychosis. That whole hell, for me, started before my mother suddenly died (of cancer), but worsened exponentially afterwards.

As strange as this may sound, I remember very little about my hospitalizations when full blown manic with mixed features and psychosis. I experienced what they call "bipolar blackouts". However, soon after that series of episodes stopped, I was left with quite a chaos of a different sort that I labeled a psychiatric avalanche. I started having severe migraines, despite never having them before. I developed various odd phobias (fear of swallowing meat, fear of going into my basement because I thought the devil was there), agoraphobia, musical hallucinations, suspected simple partial seizures (which actually started before my hospitalizations stopped), and silent migraine auras.

bpcyclist, the sciences were always my weakest subjects, but I've grown more interested in them in my middle-age. What I do know is that it is curious how within the bipolar community, you see that medications that are "miracle meds" for some, are downright horrible for others. I wish I could discuss this more intelligently, but despite my limitations, I think the "bipolar spectrum" idea is significant. That we have "different flavors" of bipolar disorder, as my psychiatrist says. Maybe we even have slightly different disorders, in some cases, beyond just bipolar 1 vs. bipolar 2, etc.

[Nammu]

Well over 10. I'm in my 60's and the very first time I was depressed was in grade school. We had a wonderful principal and she got me alone one day and so very concerned asked me what was wrong as I no longer smiled and laughed. Boy I was so tempted to just cry in her arms but I just shrugged and shuffled off. The bipoar didn't trip until I was in my 20's and as Christina mentioned it's so shiny and usually I have delusional thinking so I don't seek help and I usually skip doctors and therapists appointment s so it really delayed the diagnosis.

[bpcyclist]

Originally Posted by Sometimes psychotic

Nmda is tricky if you overstimulate it it’s actually neurotoxic....so it’s a dangerous game if hypofunction is the issue. That’s why they’ve tried regulatory modulators like grm3...but that never worked out.

It is incredibly tricky, which is why people fall back on old, simplistic ideas of what depression is...

[bpcyclist]

Originally Posted by BirdDancer

bpcyclist, the sciences were always my weakest subjects, but I've grown more interested in them in my middle-age. What I do know is that it is curious how within the bipolar community, you see that medications that are "miracle meds" for some, are downright horrible for others. I wish I could discuss this more intelligently, but despite my limitations, I think the "bipolar spectrum" idea is significant. That we have "different flavors" of bipolar disorder, as my psychiatrist says. Maybe we even have slightly different disorders, in some cases, beyond just bipolar 1 vs. bipolar 2, etc.

Oh, it is just beyond fascinating, BirdDancer, I agree. i have not really shared this before, but, when I was at my worst in the 2006-7 time frame, with bad, treatment-resistant depression, I became beyond desperate. I knew I was going to die if I did not do something dramatic.

I did a ton of research. Called some researchers I knew at the NIMH. They were working on the first ketamine studies--they had not published any of it yet. I found an experimental drug being used by some desperate people, not really being used here. I managed to get some. I had to play with it a bit, but it soon became clear it was a total miracle for my depression. Within an hour, usually, it was completely and totally gone. Would stay that way almost all day. Unbelievable. Miracle, just like ketamine for some folks.

Very long story. But, as with all things in life, nothing is free, It soon became clear that it was very difficult to figure out how to dose it. Right amount, miracle. Little too much, instant mania. Way too much, psychosis and more. Akathesia, etc.

I had to stop it, because it was not possible to figure out how to dial it in right every time. The dose needed to change from day to day, which was impossible for me ever to figure out. Too many side effects. High blood pressure, so on. I was absolutely heartbroken to give it up.

Why share this? Because I think it speaks to just what you were saying. This illness has these very different symptom complexes. What causes those? Is it the same thing. the same molecular problems? One drug can cure depression instantly, occasionally, or cause mania or cause psychosis. What does this mean?

No idea at all. But I do think it just speaks to the fact that we are in infancy in understanding how to treat this illness. We are almost totally clueless. Sadly.

[Crook32]

My first depressive episode was when I was 21 a senior in college. The only reason I graduated was because some of my professors were kind and gave me extensions. Now twenty years later I can’t even count how many episodes I have had. They were sporadic at first then the **** hit the fan about 6 years ago. All the sudden meds stopped working and I used to never get side effects and now I get them with every med. They then decided I was bipolar when antidepressants made me worse. So now I have gotten so desperate I am considering taking clozapine.

[bpcyclist]

Originally Posted by Crook32

My first depressive episode was when I was 21 a senior in college. The only reason I graduated was because some of my professors were kind and gave me extensions. Now twenty years later I can’t even count how many episodes I have had. They were sporadic at first then the **** hit the fan about 6 years ago. All the sudden meds stopped working and I used to never get side effects and now I get them with every med. They then decided I was bipolar when antidepressants made me worse. So now I have gotten so desperate I am considering taking clozapine.

It has helped a ton of people, Crook.

[Blue_Bird]

I can't really count, my memory is bad but it's been many. I had my first depressive episode at 12, I'm 26 now.