[kamikazebaby]

I had an incident with my mother today where she wanted me to do something for her, but I didn't feel up to it (which she knew), so I said no. She kept stressing how she'd do it for me, and WOW, couldn't believe that I wouldn't do that for her, etc. Thing is, it wasn't even something necessary, it was a "problem" created by her codependent behavior. I pointed out the non-codependent solution and she didn't want to hear it. So it then fell to me (in her mind) to somehow to resolve the situation, and I was automatically "bad" for not cooperating/playing along. It was also something I would never even ask her to do for me in the first place because I think it's just ridiculous to bother anyone for something like that.

On thinking about it, this is where the "I am bad if I don't do whatever others want me to" issue came from. It has been drummed into me since childhood by precisely this kind of behavior that I was bad if I didn't do what people wanted, whether I should oblige them or not. But my welfare or what I wanted or needed never entered into it. How invalidating is that? Hm.

[Seraphine]

I can thoroughly relate. Saying no is so difficult.

[Freefallphoenix]

Hi Kamikazebaby

I once read that saying no is 'warrior work'... If sounds like your warrior is getting stronger in that you've been able to defend yourself against your mother's unreasonable request, but I can hear how difficult that is for you, so well done you And yes, never having own experiences, wants/needs Listened to, believed or responded to is incredibly invalidating. I was brought up the same way so can really relate to this.

I keep reading these threads and seeing more and more aspects of myself and my experience. I feel extremely bad for not doing something that someone else wants and will contort and distort myself desperately trying to meet other people's needs. So others have this intense response to others' needs as well??! Not being able to say no meant I had a lot of sexual encounters when I was younger that I didn't really want or consent to, but did not feel I had a right to deny others (men) what they wanted. I was also sexually abused as a child and still cannot accept that I did not have some responsibility for this as I was not able to say 'no' until a couple of years had passed and then they stopped. I feel as if I had said this sooner it would not have carried on for as long as it did.

I can come here and share these thoughts with people who really understand me and it is such a relief and release for me...

[kamikazebaby]

Originally Posted by Freefallphoenix

Hi Kamikazebaby

I once read that saying no is 'warrior work'... If sounds like your warrior is getting stronger in that you've been able to defend yourself against your mother's unreasonable request, but I can hear how difficult that is for you, so well done you And yes, never having own experiences, wants/needs Listened to, believed or responded to is incredibly invalidating. I was brought up the same way so can really relate to this.

Yes, I definitely agree with that. Of course they also think that you're being unreasonable for denying their requests...damnable circle of invalidation. Sometimes I think of breaking ties with everyone and going somewhere that no one knows me and can make no demands of me.

Originally Posted by Freefallphoenix

I keep reading these threads and seeing more and more aspects of myself and my experience. I feel extremely bad for not doing something that someone else wants and will contort and distort myself desperately trying to meet other people's needs. So others have this intense response to others' needs as well??! Not being able to say no meant I had a lot of sexual encounters when I was younger that I didn't really want or consent to, but did not feel I had a right to deny others (men) what they wanted. I was also sexually abused as a child and still cannot accept that I did not have some responsibility for this as I was not able to say 'no' until a couple of years had passed and then they stopped. I feel as if I had said this sooner it would not have carried on for as long as it did.

Yes, I definitely do. Even people I don't care about - I feel the pressure to give them what they want. It's VERY irritating that I have to be constantly vigilant just to protect myself and try very hard to convince myself that my needs are valid. I relate to the unwanted sexual encounters. I'm so sorry about what you went through as a child. It wasn't your fault.

Originally Posted by Freefallphoenix

I can come here and share these thoughts with people who really understand me and it is such a relief and release for me...

I'm glad to hear that. I know what you mean.

[Freefallphoenix]

It's just exhausting isn't it?

Thank you for your thoughtful reply Kamikazebaby. I've run out of words for tonight so shall just wish you sweet dreams (time zones permitting...)

Phx

[kamikazebaby]

Originally Posted by Freefallphoenix

It's just exhausting isn't it?

Thank you for your thoughtful reply Kamikazebaby. I've run out of words for tonight so shall just wish you sweet dreams (time zones permitting...)

Phx

Yes. I just want to be myself, be okay, and be accepted and loved for who I am, but that seems like way too much to ask for. Each thing alone, even. I appreciate your words. Thank you. (I know what you mean, running out of them. I hope you have a restful night.)

[kala83]

My mother and I have a fairly similar way of dealing with things it seems like.
she is fairly negative critical person....and if I am asked to do something or forget to do so. Or do not do it the way she wants..

or just tell I am sorry i can't do that....

I get a fairly similar reaction. My mother personally seems like a very narassitic type of person. She will often turn a situation around and have it be entirely about herself and how it effects her.

Even when it orignally was me trying to confide in her about issues with my own mental health. With her basically making comments along the lines of " do you think you are the only one that has issues or stress in your life?"

And then will basically try to sit there and talk to me like i am the equivelant of a therpaist for her.

and she will complain about things that I do that she does not like towards, me not realizing or just caring that what she is saying at the time.....comes off as being hurtful for me to hear. Cause she is venting to me about things I do that she does not like toward me. Instead of talking to someone else so as to keep my feelings on the matter in mind.

[kamikazebaby]

Originally Posted by kala83

My mother and I have a fairly similar way of dealing with things it seems like.
she is fairly negative critical person....and if I am asked to do something or forget to do so. Or do not do it the way she wants..

Yes, definitely. I relate. Critical over the most trivial things as well. It has left me with a passionate dislike for critical people.

Originally Posted by kala83

or just tell I am sorry i can't do that....

I get a fairly similar reaction. My mother personally seems like a very narassitic type of person. She will often turn a situation around and have it be entirely about herself and how it effects her.

I think that my mother has strong traits, at the very least. As you say, it all comes down to being about them or reflecting on them in some way. I was supposed to take care of my mother and never bring her stress or embarrassment, to never disappoint her.

Originally Posted by kala83

Even when it orignally was me trying to confide in her about issues with my own mental health. With her basically making comments along the lines of " do you think you are the only one that has issues or stress in your life?"

And then will basically try to sit there and talk to me like i am the equivelant of a therpaist for her.

I'm sorry. That is so invalidating. My mother thinks I'm her therapist, rescuer, fix-it person -- you name it. I was always the person who was supposed to soothe her and make it all okay for her.

Originally Posted by kala83

and she will complain about things that I do that she does not like towards, me not realizing or just caring that what she is saying at the time.....comes off as being hurtful for me to hear. Cause she is venting to me about things I do that she does not like toward me. Instead of talking to someone else so as to keep my feelings on the matter in mind.

Lack of consideration and empathy for our feelings and welfare. Do you find you've withdrawn from seeking or relying on any validation or positive regard from your mother? That's how I am with mine. I still hate that feeling of being called "bad", or having it implied, though.

[kala83]

Originally Posted by kamikazebaby

Yes, definitely. I relate. Critical over the most trivial things as well. It has left me with a passionate dislike for critical people.


I think that my mother has strong traits, at the very least. As you say, it all comes down to being about them or reflecting on them in some way. I was supposed to take care of my mother and never bring her stress or embarrassment, to never disappoint her.


I'm sorry. That is so invalidating. My mother thinks I'm her therapist, rescuer, fix-it person -- you name it. I was always the person who was supposed to soothe her and make it all okay for her.


Lack of consideration and empathy for our feelings and welfare. Do you find you've withdrawn from seeking or relying on any validation or positive regard from your mother? That's how I am with mine. I still hate that feeling of being called "bad", or having it implied, though.

I think as much as most any child wants approval from a loved one epically their own mother.

whom I have been closer to then most any of my other relatives in my life.
I to a degree want her to be happy for me and to approve of things I do.

but I think as you get older and become an adult you learn that certain personality types are not going to ever be pleased with ALL the things you do. I know that as hard as I have tried to gain her approval of things even when we do not agree....its always the same way.....I just am going to emotionally feel like I am not ever good enough to her.

its a truly hard thing for me to accept in my life, because as difficult as my relationship with my mother is I will always truly love her.

but I know that I can not live my life based on trying to make her happy or approve of all the things I do...if I did I would not be bisexual...I would not have a boyfriend I love as well as two girlfriends and two other local girls I am dating as well.

but its what makes me happy for filled. I can only worry about what I have control over what I can handle or cope with...I can not control how she thinks or how she responds to things emotionally...that is on her to deal with....how she copes or responds to situations but its not something I can control. lol even if might wish to....

but I do have to deal with it when it comes up.

[kamikazebaby]

It is tough to give up on the approval of our parents. I think the only way to do so is to emotionally separate from them on a deep level, to emotionally divorce them.

[kala83]

I don't think I went so far as doing that per say in a DBT format of saying so "I radically accepted that I would not be able to ever fully gain approval of my mother through her eyes" cause she wants me to be extension of herself as her child not my own adult.

I do not like the fact that she views me in this kind of way and I make it clear that I don't approve of this type of behaviour but I accept that this just is how the way things are. Between the two of us.