[Troy]

I .... need .... help!

[Porcelain_doll_2004]

HUGS if you want them. Do you have a T that you can talk to or even is there a help line that you can call for some support?

You are in my thoughts!

Here Troy--What's happening???

[Catherine2]

Originally Posted by Troy

I .... need .... help!

Troy...
PM me
you talk, I listen

you are my brother
always there for each other
don't forget that...

[Catherine2]

Troy,
How are you now?

We'd really like to know because we care...

In Peace

......right here, bro..................

troy...

the legs are short...but the back is strong....strong enough to support you.

you need...you ask. you got it.

stumpy

[Michah]

Troy,

I am with you too.......sorry for being a stranger, my friend......

Distance means little in space and time.......for everything exists in the same place.......

Take real good care of you and big hugs........

Michah

[Troy]

What will the conversation be like if I tell my VA primary care doctor that I want to be evaluated for PTSD? Is this like Catch 22 where you cannot be declared "crazy" if you are aware that you need help?

[Michah]

Originally Posted by Troy

What will the conversation be like if I tell my VA primary care doctor that I want to be evaluated for PTSD? Is this like Catch 22 where you cannot be declared "crazy" if you are aware that you need help?

Hi Troy,

You are not "crazy" and never were, my friend.......

The criteria for dx someone as clinically insane is infinitely complex...

And to answer your question, seeking help is definitely in your favour. There is great courage in taking the step to firstly admit that there are issues you need help with, and secondly ASKING for the help.......it is very, vert hard.......in saying this you will not be declared "crazy" if you do or don't, sweets. Any T will tell you that is a very exciting moment for them, when you finally say, "This is what I am dealing with......how can you help me?" It makes their day........for it means that you are ready to "take the challenge" of healing.......they LOVE that.......or so it has been in my experience.....

You are suffering immensely, yes......but you are also insightful, aware, honest, intelligent and warm........people who are clinically insane do not ask for help.......for they do not understand the reality of their situation.

So in asking for help, you look more sane......than if you don't.......thats been my experience with the obvious signs of impending psychosis......my psych hospital are infinitely more giving and understanding if I present before psychosis actually hits........For it is easier to help me that way. It is my responsibility.......

Take good care.......I understand your conundrum.......you can do it.......you are too important to suffer timelessly, my friend...... Have I made sense

Michah

[(JD)]

(((Troy))) suffering with PTSD is not being "crazy."
I suppose the doctor will want to know more... like why you think what you do about it...

PTSD is an anxiety disorder, so you could go that way, how you worry about such and such, or how this concerns you...

Have you taken one of the quizzes here at PC? If so, then you could say you took an online quiz that suggested PTSD and you want an expert opinion.

It's always a good thing to seek help, imo.

[Catherine2]

Originally Posted by Troy

What will the conversation be like if I tell my VA primary care doctor that I want to be evaluated for PTSD? Is this like Catch 22 where you cannot be declared "crazy" if you are aware that you need help?

Troy,
Your primary care physician is most likely aware of your PTSD any way...admitting to it and asking for help is not going to be a surprise to him/her.
Many Vets of our time are seeking the help we need, and receiving that help...help that was not available to us when we returned home.
You've toughed it out long enough, Troy. It's time for you to take whatever steps necessary to help yourself. You can spend the rest of your life battling your demons, or you can spend the rest of your life having a measure of peace...
A perfect peace? No.
Peace so when you go to bed you can rest, most of the time be out of high alert, not need or want anything to numb your feelings...yes. Enjoying weeks or months of being free of the anguish, freely give and receive love because you know you can and you want to do it? That you are worth it...?
Yes

Your hesitation is understandable, Troy. Perhaps part of it is actually admitting to the PTSD and being tired of going it alone...
and there is nothing wrong with it; if anything, it can be the beginning of the better things you want and need in your life.

In Peace
C

[Troy]

You know exactly how i feel. Telling this to a doc is one of the scaryiest things I've ever considered.

but some of the thoughts that i've had lately make me think that telling someone might be the last exit before I head down the wrong highway, a place that i only considered once before, but one that seems more attractive all the time.

I don't konw wat they'll say or how family will react, but i need help.

only bullets have defeated me before and now to admit that i can't control things, ugh!

Maybe bullets will defeat me again. an ounce of lead is worth a pound of cure or something liekt tht

[Troy]

*tears* and *panic* and the beer isn't helping put thigns back in order
a label, ugh
crazy, ugh
thearpy, ugh
teratment, ugh

tell me how to escape

[Catherine2]

Originally Posted by Troy

*tears* and *panic* and the beer isn't helping put thigns back in order
a label, ugh
crazy, ugh
thearpy, ugh
teratment, ugh

tell me how to escape

the beer isn't going to help, either, Troy
we both know this is the truth

you are not going to escape, you are going to have to take care of it
Now, not tomorrow or next week
now

help is available...ya asked for it, right?
take the next step and use that help

Troy...think about it
it's not going to get any better unless you do take action

[Catherine2]

Still there, Troy?

[notz]

Troy,

I don't presume to know what it's like to have Combat PTSD. I give you that respect. Also, I won't offend you with the notion that I can explain or know your problems better than you. I did not have the honor of serving my country, and I've never been in combat. There is no way I know what you have been through.

I sincerely hope you pursue the help you need. Thank you for your service to this country. Please take good care of yourself.

[Troy]

You don't know how much your encouragement means to me. The thought swirls around almost constantly and the idea of exposing all of that eye-to-eye is not good.

So I go in and tell the doc, and this goes in my record, and the label is sewn on much like those military patches. And the ppl there talk to each other about it, and family finds out, and then the notion is confirmed that those i meet will hate me. Not only did he do all those things, he now wants sympathy. he looks ok to us. He has succeeded very well. He talks about things like they don't bother him.

And on the inside ... itz not the same. not at all. Everything they see is a mask. I've perfected the mask over the years until it looks like i'm even better than normal, and now ... taking it off, isn't easy. It's like, not only am I this terrible person, but on top of that I've lied to all of you al of these years. What can you trust me about?

All of thise has been crammed into those little memory boxes for so long, the boxes
must be big enough for me to cram it back in there now. Maybe its just a matter of days to get this under control again.

i'll chek back wen i get my nerve up again. It seems like coming here makes my fingers talk about things that i don't even understand. What would it be like to see the shrink. those people want to ask about everything. No telling what I'll find out about myself, and for sure i don't want the shrink to be the first to know

I don't know. Silence has worked before. Maybe it will work again.

Please don't think my absence here is a reflection about what you've told me. I'm torn between coming here and terrorizing my self or standing alone and hunkering down, putting the barriers back up, shoving the dreams and thoughts aside, focusing on work work work.

Met a bunch of new people who are so intereseted in knowing me better. They ask questions about my life. They are intrigued and want to know more, and the whole time I'm thinking, how do i get out of this. I dopn't want them to know me better. And they really don't either if they knew what they're likely to find out.

Alone and silent ... safety in that ... alone and silent.

I've even learned to be alone in a crowd. Safety in that. Keep your eye on everyone and keep your mouth shut.

I have to stop. Can you tell me more about the kind of questions I'll be asked by the doc and the shrink? Where is that self test thing someone mentioned that helps me understand if these are symptoms of ptsd?

You know what I feel like after ranting about all of that? i feel like turning the desk over, breaking the computer, and screaming at everyone. that doesn't seem normal, does it? But, I'll turn off the computer, put on a smile, and walk into the other room like nothing at all is wrong. that doesn't seem normal, does it?

T.

[susan888]

(((Troy)))
No one that has not been where you have been can totally understand what you are feeling. Catherine has...I have no words for you except prayers and so much thanks and gratitude that you served our country so well! Please know that you will be in my thoughts and my prayers...I hope you will seek the council of those that have shared your experience! Much love to you!! Much gratitude to you!!

[Catherine2]

**Trigger Icon**Honor it; You Know What To Do...Or Not Do

Originally Posted by Troy

You don't know how much your encouragement means to me. The thought swirls around almost constantly and the idea of exposing all of that eye-to-eye is not good.
I'm glad you recognize the support you are getting here, Troy.
So I go in and tell the doc, and this goes in my record, and the label is sewn on much like those military patches. And the ppl there talk to each other about it, and family finds out, and then the notion is confirmed that those i meet will hate me. Not only did he do all those things, he now wants sympathy. he looks ok to us. He has succeeded very well. He talks about things like they don't bother him.
Ya can't scrip what is going to happen...you can beat yourself up, assume you know what's going to happen, and not give it a chance. "It" is coming clean; and there is nothing you are going to say that is that much different than what they have heard from others. Re the family? They already know there is something going on...they see the behaviors, and they see beyond the mask...that mask we think is oh so perfect that no one can see the cracks in it. We don't see the cracks; we are looking from the inside, they are looking at the cracked outside...one that is showing a helluva lot of things.They aren't fools; family or professionals.
And on the inside ... itz not the same. not at all. Everything they see is a mask. I've perfected the mask over the years until it looks like i'm even better than normal, and now ... taking it off, isn't easy. It's like, not only am I this terrible person, but on top of that I've lied to all of you al of these years. What can you trust me about?
It's not about what they trust, Troy. It's about what you trust about yourself/in yourself...
All of thise has been crammed into those little memory boxes for so long, the boxes must be big enough for me to cram it back in there now. Maybe its just a matter of days to get this under control again.
Control, out of control, control, out of control...gets tiring after awhile, doesn't it?
i'll chek back wen i get my nerve up again. It seems like coming here makes my fingers talk about things that i don't even understand.
Your fingers don't do anything except to be the method you use to write your feelings and fears...those things come from within you.
What would it be like to see the shrink. those people want to ask about everything. No telling what I'll find out about myself, and for sure i don't want the shrink to be the first to know
the shrink will be the second one...you know a lot about yourself already. their questions are not an interrogation, Troy.They are valid questions meant to help design your treatment protocol.
I don't know. Silence has worked before. Maybe it will work again.
Silence? Work again? The periods of what you define as silence have shorter times between them...don't they?
Please don't think my absence here is a reflection about what you've told me. I'm torn between coming here and terrorizing my self or standing alone and hunkering down, putting the barriers back up, shoving the dreams and thoughts aside, focusing on work work work.
It's a reflection on your being sick and tired of living like this...when you know it can and will get better. Reaching that point of acceptance is not easy, and it is not off limits to you.
Met a bunch of new people who are so intereseted in knowing me better. They ask questions about my life. They are intrigued and want to know more, and the whole time I'm thinking, how do i get out of this. I dopn't want them to know me better. And they really don't either if they knew what they're likely to find out.
...how do you know for sure, Troy? "what they are likely to find out" will be what you tell them. as an aside, we do not have to tell everyone we meet about our past events; it's a choice we make to tell or not...and it is in the past and does not need to be a true confession.
Alone and silent ... safety in that ... alone and silent.
There is no safety in denying you need help and getting it. There is more danger in remaining silent and letting it eat you up...'cause that is exactly what is happening...it's eating you up.
I've even learned to be alone in a crowd. Safety in that. Keep your eye on everyone and keep your mouth shut.
Many of us do that anyway...feel more comfortable in crowds by watching others, not because they represent danger but because they are people...interesting, boring, smiling, frowning, drinking too much, drinking nothing...
I have to stop. Can you tell me more about the kind of questions I'll be asked by the doc and the shrink? Where is that self test thing someone mentioned that helps me understand if these are symptoms of ptsd?
Troy, you have PTSD and you know it. You don't need verification from tests, questions from the professional are going to be tailored for your needs...there is no guarantee of anything except you will be taking the steps to facing your problems and doing something about them.
You know what I feel like after ranting about all of that? i feel like turning the desk over, breaking the computer, and screaming at everyone. that doesn't seem normal, does it? But, I'll turn off the computer, put on a smile, and walk into the other room like nothing at all is wrong. that doesn't seem normal, does it?
Normal isn't the word for it...try using frustration, rage, fear, disgust, please help me, WTF is going on, JC this hurts...
Masks fall off before we are aware they are gone even though we think we are still wearing them.
T.

jmo, of course.
We make decisions; decide to give it up and face what needs to be faced, or we decide to hang on to the things that are killing us bit by bit.
Platitudes can be wonderful, but
where you are at now is a helluva lot worse than doing what is necessary to change it.

Catherine

[Yoda]

[Troy]

Things are calmer here this a.m.

Have you been to see therapists? I don't know if it's a symptom of imbalance or if it's based upon my earlier experiences in working with shrinks to get people out of the military, or maybe it's just a reflection of my culture ... but even the thought of making such an appointment gives me the heebie jeebies.

You know what it feels like? It's like that last half hour before you step off on an operation where you know some of you won't come back alive - anticipation and fear wrapped into silence. You've seen it in the eyes of others ... facing an unknown enemy who you know is trying to kill you, soldiers who have been trained, paid, encouraged to kill you.

And in the case of the Therapists and shrinks, they've been paid to grill me. Ask questions that go far beyond "how's the weather." Sure, the stated goal is to help rather than hurt me, but I've known many who only found their wounds worsened by those who are paid to help.

I get in kind of a silent rage whenever I meet people who dominate the conversation with questions. they're skilled at it and don't even let you turn it back on them. Question. Question. Question. How can I go into that office knowing that someone is being paid to dominate me with questions?

These paid interrogators will want me to go where I don't want to go. They'll want me to confront those things that I've boxed up and put away. They'll want to know why, why?

What if these people think I need to be hospitalized for treatment? What if they consider me a danger to myself? You can't tell what kind of crazy idea they'll come up with. I've known of many cases where social workers and shrinks wreck someone's life because they project their own fears onto the "patient" and create more havoc. Having a license as a shrink doesn't mean they're completely trustworthy. Or knowledgeable (especially in the government system where I've met many who work there because they're willing to take small pay for whatever reason).

Some stuff I've read even has the "patient" watching realistic combat videos, somehow thinking that immersion will provide relief. It sounds like idiotic academia to me even though I know they've spent years studying all the aspects of this.

I really hesitate to come into PC and tell all of this stuff. In an objective way, it seems like whining. It seems like trying to put all of this onto you instead of dealing with it myself. It seems like just asking for sympathy. None of that is intended. I appreciate your remarks, but it's the telling that is important.

Perhaps this is just one man's way of creeping up on the reality that one of these days all of this will come to a head, either alone or with the help of therapists.

If the therapist gets progress through asking questions, why can't I do that in the anonymity of PC? Why do I have to be face to face with these people? And ... ugh ... why would I have to be in a group? I have a terrible attitude toward group discussions. I feel the pain of other people in that kind of conversation while at the same time being repelled by them. I leave there an emotional wreck. But I then dislike the people because they have revealed these things and now I'm a part of their own pain and chaos. I can't solve their problems, why must I know about the difficulties. They surly have the same feelings toward me and my wimpy, means nothing, get over it stories.

I have known peace before ... in combat the peace comes after the last grenade is thrown, the last bullet is fired, the last wounded sent to the hospital, and the last of the dead sent away. Peace is that silence in the middle of the battle where you can't hear anything anymore, no more explosions, no more yelling, no more screaming ... it's that point where your mind and entire being is focused on survival even if it means killing. Peace sometimes has a red haze across it, knowing that if you lose focus there won't be any more battles.

Peace is walking alone across the battlefield when it's all over, covered with mud and the grime of battle, stumbling on the uneven earth plowed up by the bombs, deaf from the explosions, looking at those who won't fight again. Hearing in the background that the radio call is for you but it's a remote observation because how can you talk with anyone at that moment - you stumble on, even walking in circles with tears in your eyes and a scream just under the surface. your troops must not know your fragility, your hanging on by a thread. *tears, running down my neck*
Peace is in the stern orders you issue, falling into the routine you've been trained for, check your weapons, check your ammo, give me a head count, patrols out to make sure we're not counter attacked, call battalion, call for medivacs, cool off those machine guns, get some water over here, medic, medic, medic!

Peace is in cursing the enemy, cursing higher ups, cursing the support you didn't get, cursing those who ordered the mission, cursing the politicians who sent these innocent teenagers into a useless gunfight, a gunfight that lasts for days, weeks, months, years. How long before they get the idea that the only way win a war is to fight with all you have, not with negotiations and peace initiatives but with brutal, overwhelming, kill 'em and break their will to fight power. there's peace in the cursing.

Peace is that few minutes after a funeral as people are moving away from the grave site and you detach yourself from the present to absorb the peaceful feelings of the one buried there.

Peace is that time after they give you the shot, just the few seconds between the pain and the numbness and sleep. A moment of consciousness about the relief in knowing the torture is over.

Peace is a part of violence - the last part.

How can there be peace in therapy, especially group therapy? How can I be a part of a therapy group where the coverings are stripped back and the horror of war is revealed first hand ... again? Catherine's post about "give this post a name" is almost more than my emotions can handle, and the post is just there to read or not read.

Maybe my fear of therapy is just an excuse for my own lack of courage, for my own unwillingness to accept help. But thank you for letting me say this stuff out loud. And thank you for helping me understand that in the end, I do need help. You can see it in these scattered and unfocused thoughts, some of which bring panic just to write about them.

Originally Posted by Catherine2

Troy,
Your primary care physician is most likely aware of your PTSD any way...admitting to it and asking for help is not going to be a surprise to him/her.
Many Vets of our time are seeking the help we need, and receiving that help...help that was not available to us when we returned home.
You've toughed it out long enough, Troy. It's time for you to take whatever steps necessary to help yourself. You can spend the rest of your life battling your demons, or you can spend the rest of your life having a measure of peace...
A perfect peace? No.
Peace so when you go to bed you can rest, most of the time be out of high alert, not need or want anything to numb your feelings...yes. Enjoying weeks or months of being free of the anguish, freely give and receive love because you know you can and you want to do it? That you are worth it...?
Yes

Your hesitation is understandable, Troy. Perhaps part of it is actually admitting to the PTSD and being tired of going it alone...
and there is nothing wrong with it; if anything, it can be the beginning of the better things you want and need in your life.

In Peace
C

[Zorah]

((((((Troy))))))), sorry we've been gone so long

being PTSD does not make you "crazy" & they are not very likely to hospitalize you for this

good luck friend & survivor, always remember you survived & you will keep surviving

you do not lack courage & peace is elusive

Originally Posted by Yoda

To able to speak share these words - Is a beginning of reaching out, and here is the place you'll find it...
Always look around you, feel the safety of this place
I have found here - What I've needed in the time of my lowest.

[eskielover]

Troy,

Don't know if you are still around....you haven't posted since this last post here......but just wanted to tell you about an experience that I had a few years ago while in outpatient treatment for PTSD that was caused by something way less serious than what you went through in the war.

There was a sweet older man (much older....in his 90's) who had been a pilot in WWII. Obviously, there was no treatment for PTSD after that war....they didn't even know what PTSD was. He was telling us about all the horrible experiences he had during the war along with some of the exciting experiences.......but he was finally able to let them all out....as if it was just yesterday that he had experienced it all.

Honestly....it doesn't go away & it doesn't get better without help. As far as T's asking questions....most of the T's I have gone to let me talk....without questions unless I am already on that path in the first place & then the questions are not forced to be answered......they let you determine what you are willing to let out or not......so don't let the fear of them asking questions stop you from the therapy that you so desperately deserve & need.

Hope you can come to terms with yourself & free yourself from what you are holding onto so tightly......there is no point in suffering all these years holding it in when letting it out gives at least some relief....it doesn't get rid of everything, but teaches you how to deal with the feelings & symptoms that PTSD causes......there is no dishonor in getting help.

To be quite honest, I don't think that there are many people who have served in a war situation that don't have some level of PTSD, so it's not a negative label.......it's more of a group that all military belong to going through the horrible experiences that one wasn't given an option to choose.

Take care of yourself,
eskielover