[MtnTime2896]

Why did it have to happen?

That's what I don't understand. My siblings don't deal with C-PTSD (aside from my little brother). If they have, then they've never talked about it. To add to it, I have an older sibling who doesn't believe what my dad did to me was wrong in the first place.

See, according to my older sister, I was just a bad kid and 'treated dad wrong'. I won't lie, I became flat out belligerent after my mom left. Wouldn't talk to anyone or associate with any of my family. I just wouldn't for the first two months. During that time, yeah my dad laid into me a lot. Sure, I definitely said things back. I understand what I did as, 'you can't talk to a parent that way' and I got better and I learned after being forced by the school to start counseling. It took two months, two, for me to say, "Yes, sir. No, sir." and always stayed calm during those nights he yelled at me for an hour or so at a time before bed. Why was he yelling? Bad day at work and I just must've done something to make it worse.
After a certain amount of time, I want to say I was around thirteen, something new started. All of my siblings, every one of them, would be in bed fast asleep and I'd be awake. By choice, hell no. I was awake doing chores and doing outside chores throughout the night. Lay down for a few minutes, get up and get my brother ready for school. Go to school (usually tried to sleep a bit at some point during class). Go home. Clean. Homework. Make dinner for my brother. Get my brother to bed. Stay awake to open the door for my dad and older siblings 'til around 11pm. Older siblings go to bed. Dad yells at me for some time about how I didn't do something right. Makes me do chores over again and stay awake so he can rant. Get to bed around 4-4:30. Alarm goes off at 5. Dad yells at me for being tired. Get up and repeat.

^I'd do this for months on end. You'd think weekends would be better, right? Nope, I wasn't allowed to sleep during the day. It was 'bad work ethic' because, you see I'm lazy. If I slept I was worthless, lazy and just too stupid to actually achieve anything.

I have an older sibling who told me, "Dad was trying to teach you something. And it wasn't that bad, just get over it." I've brought this up on the SoA forum before because I needed reassurance one way or the other. I think that's why I'm doing it now. I would sleep so little that hallucinations became absolutely normal to my daily routine. My finger nails looked interesting. My hair fell out in clumps. And you know what, I sure became obedient after a while. It wasn't 'Yes, sir. No, sir" obedience. It was, "Why are you so stupid?"

"I don't know dad."

"You're never going anywhere. You know that?"

"Yeah, I know that."

"You're way too emotional about everything."

"Yes, I am. I'm sorry."

I wasn't just obedient. I was wrong. Nothing I thought was real and everything was in my head. What my dad said wasn't just true, it was flat out gospel.

I have C-PTSD originating from multiple childhood traumas. I never considered this one until my T said that this wasn't just abuse but a form of torture, and indeed traumatic.

Long story short and into a question: Is my T right and this is considered trauma? Is my sister right and it wasn't actually anything bad? Am I right in saying that it was wrong but I've had it worse and therefore it isn't okay but isn't trauma?

I just don't know anymore.

[woe-be-gone]

If a situation has caused an effect strong enough to cause a reaction, I believe there has been some trauma. If trauma seems like a word full of blame placed on your dad, maybe imagine it as physics...If an object moves, there must be some sort of force acting upon it. Nothing just happens. So, if you find yourself facing the effects of trauma and can trace it back to memories that is validation.

Now, why did it have to happen? It happened because your survival instinct has kicked in and said I will not let the force push me down anymore. I will try and understand it and use this understanding to continue a healthy survival...A fulfilling life ahead.

I understand having siblings who don't relate to your childhood. We need to understand and accept that each of us are different people with different needs and different reactions. What's good enough for others may not be good enough for us...And what's good enough for us may not be enough for others. We all have our own survival struggle.

[reb569]

Originally Posted by Só leigheas

Why did it have to happen?

That's what I don't understand. My siblings don't deal with C-PTSD (aside from my little brother). If they have, then they've never talked about it. To add to it, I have an older sibling who doesn't believe what my dad did to me was wrong in the first place.

See, according to my older sister, I was just a bad kid and 'treated dad wrong'. I won't lie, I became flat out belligerent after my mom left. Wouldn't talk to anyone or associate with any of my family. I just wouldn't for the first two months. During that time, yeah my dad laid into me a lot. Sure, I definitely said things back. I understand what I did as, 'you can't talk to a parent that way' and I got better and I learned after being forced by the school to start counseling. It took two months, two, for me to say, "Yes, sir. No, sir." and always stayed calm during those nights he yelled at me for an hour or so at a time before bed. Why was he yelling? Bad day at work and I just must've done something to make it worse.
After a certain amount of time, I want to say I was around thirteen, something new started. All of my siblings, every one of them, would be in bed fast asleep and I'd be awake. By choice, hell no. I was awake doing chores and doing outside chores throughout the night. Lay down for a few minutes, get up and get my brother ready for school. Go to school (usually tried to sleep a bit at some point during class). Go home. Clean. Homework. Make dinner for my brother. Get my brother to bed. Stay awake to open the door for my dad and older siblings 'til around 11pm. Older siblings go to bed. Dad yells at me for some time about how I didn't do something right. Makes me do chores over again and stay awake so he can rant. Get to bed around 4-4:30. Alarm goes off at 5. Dad yells at me for being tired. Get up and repeat.

^I'd do this for months on end. You'd think weekends would be better, right? Nope, I wasn't allowed to sleep during the day. It was 'bad work ethic' because, you see I'm lazy. If I slept I was worthless, lazy and just too stupid to actually achieve anything.

I have an older sibling who told me, "Dad was trying to teach you something. And it wasn't that bad, just get over it." I've brought this up on the SoA forum before because I needed reassurance one way or the other. I think that's why I'm doing it now. I would sleep so little that hallucinations became absolutely normal to my daily routine. My finger nails looked interesting. My hair fell out in clumps. And you know what, I sure became obedient after a while. It wasn't 'Yes, sir. No, sir" obedience. It was, "Why are you so stupid?"

"I don't know dad."

"You're never going anywhere. You know that?"

"Yeah, I know that."

"You're way too emotional about everything."

"Yes, I am. I'm sorry."

I wasn't just obedient. I was wrong. Nothing I thought was real and everything was in my head. What my dad said wasn't just true, it was flat out gospel.

I have C-PTSD originating from multiple childhood traumas. I never considered this one until my T said that this wasn't just abuse but a form of torture, and indeed traumatic.

Long story short and into a question: Is my T right and this is considered trauma? Is my sister right and it wasn't actually anything bad? Am I right in saying that it was wrong but I've had it worse and therefore it isn't okay but isn't trauma?

I just don't know anymore.

I would undoubtedly call this trauma. Similar experiences to what you've been through are part of what caused my cptsd. Your experiences are uncannily familiar. I too, had to agree with my father when he called me horrible names to keep him from escalating to physical abuse. Daily, for hours, for months, maybe years. I'm unsure of how long it went on. My heart is with you.

[Open Eyes]

You were only about 12 when your parents divorced and you were left with a single parent that was most likely "angry" about his marriage breaking up.

You were in no way mature enough to have the maturity level that was expected of you. And when you were up all night cleaning and "doing" and being active what that means is you were "trying" to gain a sense of control anyway you could. Unfortunately, your father was blind to observing your behavior and "backing" off. And your siblings were all about themselves and not old enough to have the capacity to support you, so they fell into criticizing you, that is what your dad was encouraging in his parenting.

When you are "reviewing" it's really important that you pay attention to your age and lack of maturity. You need to be able to "grieve" your loss at that time and remind yourself how young you were.

[MtnTime2896]

They divorced when I was ten and, granted not to the same degree as twelve, but I began taking care of my brother at around 8.

I see what you mean with 'focusing on age'. I had somebody explain to me by taking their 10 year old and basically telling me, "This is how old you were. This is how small you were." It was interesting to say the least.

I think that whenever a parent yells at their child in an emotional way, it can be traumatic and this went on for a while. While I do not believe in spanking, I think that an unemotional spanking is less damaging to a child than emotional yelling that goes on and on. It sounds like you are gaining some insight into your problem. It is a shame (your dad's shame) that he put you through this. Parents don't treat each child exactly the same; everyone is different and our relationships include an intangible thing that I call chemistry. How it all played out is not your fault. Yelling for an entire hour was not OK. Maybe during this time period, he had terrible anxiety, that kind of thing, but he was supposed to be the adult and you were just a kid!

[reb569]

Originally Posted by Hopingtrying

I think that whenever a parent yells at their child in an emotional way, it can be traumatic and this went on for a while. While I do not believe in spanking, I think that an unemotional spanking is less damaging to a child than emotional yelling that goes on and on. It sounds like you are gaining some insight into your problem. It is a shame (your dad's shame) that he put you through this. Parents don't treat each child exactly the same; everyone is different and our relationships include an intangible thing that I call chemistry. How it all played out is not your fault. Yelling for an entire hour was not OK. Maybe during this time period, he had terrible anxiety, that kind of thing, but he was supposed to be the adult and you were just a kid!

Absolutely agree with this. I know in my father's case, I'm pretty sure he was on the severe end of Borderline PD and Narcissistic PD. He was always like that. Where I lucked out was that there were periods of time where others took the brunt of the abuse and I would get a little break from it. My mother was always a target, but then he always had a scapegoat too that he targeted. It would switch depending on who did something to make him mad, sometimes he would have multiple scapegoats. For some reason though, I tended to be a popular scapegoat.

Sorry, I hope I'm not hijacking your thread Só leigheas. The main thing that I'm trying to point out is that you are not alone. We've had similar experiences, and the result of that, and other experiences we've each had have led us to the world of CPTSD.

[MtnTime2896]

reb569,

I'm sorry you went through that. My dad also had/has a habit of going after my mom. When she left, it's like I took her place. The only other sibling that dealt with some was my older brother, even then he could just leave and it'd go right back to me. Believe it or not, I preferred it that way. If he really wanted to get to me, he'd go after one of my siblings or my mom. I couldn't have that. So you had to witness just as much as be on the other end of the stick.

By the way, 80% of why I create threads is to open up discussion on a specific topic. I don't believing 'hijacking' is possible because if you need to say it, then it matters and we're here to support you and discuss it. What I'm trying to say is, don't ever worry about 'hijacking' one of my threads because I want to hear you. I want to be here the same as you are for me. What you have to talk about, the reflection that you're making is important. Thank you for sharing your experience.

[MtnTime2896]

woe-be-gone,

It's all too easy for me to claim that I'm simply just being emotional. Looking at it like it's physics does make it easier to understand.

Hoping,

Your pretty accurate there. As screwed as this may be, I rather have taken my mom or older brother's fists than dealt with my dad berating me around the house. Sure, getting hit sucked and, yeah, I swore I was going to die a few times, but the **** my dad said all of the time and all of the, "It's just in your head. Stop being emotional like your mother." It all added up and stuck with me. Everything he said replays when I wake up, try to eat a meal (which usually remains an un-eaten failure), when I'm working on anything and up into my dreams; it all repeats over and over again.

[reb569]

I'm sorry you went through that. My dad also had/has a habit of going after my mom. When she left, it's like I took her place. The only ither sibling that dealt with some was my older brother, even then he could just leave and it'd go right back to me. Believe it or not, I preferred it that way. If he really wanted to get to me, he'd go after one of my siblings or my mom. I couldn't have that. So you had to witness just as much as be on the other end of the stick.

I can relate to this. I used to hide my little brother and sister in my room under my bed when things got really bad. Made it a game for them. When I was older I used to deflect his abuse towards my mother onto myself because I knew that I could stand there and take it without crying or getting mad and eventually after he got it out of his system he would stop and go take a nap or get in the car and drive away for awhile. My mother though would often "talk back", which usually led to an escalation to physical abuse, so my main goal was to prevent that. When my older brothers were around, he wasn't as bad because although he abused them when they were younger, as they got older, he became wary of them and usually wouldn't escalate to physical abuse. Taking the verbal abuse was the only way I had to protect my mother.

[MtnTime2896]

Originally Posted by reb569

I can relate to this. I used to hide my little brother and sister in my room under my bed when things got really bad. Made it a game for them. When I was older I used to deflect his abuse towards my mother onto myself because I knew that I could stand there and take it without crying or getting mad and eventually after he got it out of his system he would stop and go take a nap or get in the car and drive away for awhile. My mother though would often "talk back", which usually led to an escalation to physical abuse, so my main goal was to prevent that. When my older brothers were around, he wasn't as bad because although he abused them when they were younger, as they got older, he became wary of them and usually wouldn't escalate to physical abuse. Taking the verbal abuse was the only way I had to protect my mother.

(Potentially Triggering)
I made it a game for my little brother, too. Every time, whether it be my dad, my mom or our older brother. I even had a code-knock to get into the bedroom after it was over. 'In the game', he wasn't allowed to open the door until he heard that. Whenever I got hit and it showed, I'd tell him that I was 'wrestling the monsters away'. After a while, that didn't work anymore because he started sneaking out to see what was actually happening. He was a smart kid. Too smart.
As I got older, my mom got better but my dad and brother hadn't. With both of them, though, I was always deflecting their attention towards me. If my older brother looked like he might attack my sister or brother, I'd strike him and re-focus him at me. I knew I could take a hit and they couldn't. If they could, I didn't want them to. With my dad, same thing just without fists. I knew I could take his words, his yelling and his 'discipline' (which entailed punishments like: cleaning broken glass because he threw something in my direction, cleaning the messes he'd make because 'I needed to learn responsibility' as he'd turn the house into a state of disarray, being forced to stay awake throughout the night and/or being cast out of the house for the night, no matter the weather).

Stealing a quote from the Breakfast Club, "Sounds like your dad and my dad should go bowling."

[MtnTime2896]

I will add, because I realize I didn't in the response above,

reb, you shouldn't have had to do that. That wasn't just taking on an 'adult role'. You put on a metaphorical cape. You didn't deserve to take any of it any more than those in your household.

[woe-be-gone]

You are such a wonderfully strong person! The more you describe your situation as a child, I can see why your siblings don't suffer from the trauma. You shielded them and saved them. It was incredibly selfless of you and like you say, it shouldn't have been your responsibility to take on such a role but you did. That even answers your question of why did it happen! The child in you never really got the attention and love you've always given others. Stay strong! You're amazing!

[MtnTime2896]

Originally Posted by woe-be-gone

You are such a wonderfully strong person! The more you describe your situation as a child, I can see why your siblings don't suffer from the trauma. You shielded them and saved them. It was incredibly selfless of you and like you say, it shouldn't have been your responsibility to take on such a role but you did. That even answers your question of why did it happen! The child in you never really got the attention and love you've always given others. Stay strong! You're amazing!

I appreciate that and I'm really trying harder to accept compliments so I'm going to leave it at that.

[Open Eyes]

Originally Posted by Só leigheas

They divorced when I was ten and, granted not to the same degree as twelve, but I began taking care of my brother at around 8.

I see what you mean with 'focusing on age'. I had somebody explain to me by taking their 10 year old and basically telling me, "This is how old you were. This is how small you were." It was interesting to say the least.

Too much was expected of you when you were way too young.

[Unrigged64072835]

Short answer: your T is right and your sister is wrong.

No one should take abuse out on a child, no matter how bad the child is acting.

I still remember my dad hitting me in the head with a coffee cup, just because I sat down while we were carrying in groceries.

My dad did other things too, that were worse. But that's just an example.

[Trace14]

Hearing your stories reminds me of so many of the stories Dr Jonice Webb has shared, with CEN Child Emotional Neglect. She is so on target with what she says.