[Wyric]

I don't even know why I am writing this... I guess I am looking for a way to process our differences--to move past a part of her history that she has already come to terms with.

Let me explain the situation, bear with the telling:

I am 27. I lost my virginity when I was 19 to a girl my age who later became my fiancé. I was not her first. We were together for 2 years with a short break-up in the beginning. We didn't have sex for over a year, but finally... we did. I found out after some time that the short break up occurred in order that some other guy could have sex with her without technically cheating on me. Of course I forgave her, after a few minutes of nausea. Then in college we were going to get married, and a few months before it was finalized, she kissed some other guy, so I broke it off.

Only after this did I ever consider sleeping with other people. I had this summer long thing with another girl, and a single one night stand with a girl that I had known for a while that ended after about 4 seconds(if you take my meaning) before finally meeting the woman who I would eventually marry. We dated for about a year and got hitched. Yay. Well that lasted about 3 years, and then she wanted me to move out. During our separation, we both found other people. This next girl, my rebound i guess, stayed around for about 6 months, and then I ended it bc I realized we could never be happy together.

Now I found this fantastic girl(#6), who loves me, and who I plan to marry in a year, but as we get to know each other's past I find that I am having trouble dealing with how different her sexual past is from mine...

She is 21, and lost her virginity at 15 to a 20 year old. She basically dated 1 guy on and off for about 6 years after that, breaking up frequently and taking other partners to fill the gaps. Apparently she was a drunken wild one who bloomed around 17 and spent the following years using her body to get attention from different guys. For the record, I am # 13 in her book.

Now, to be clear, when I first learned about these other guys, I did not handle it well, the nauseous feeling kicked in for the night... I try to rationalize that she is a different person now then she was back then, but I find it to be difficult to fully accept and be at peace with. Some things I get. A few of these guys were people she actually knew, and cultivated a friendship with before alcohol encouraged them to get naked together. But some of them were just random guys....

The main guy that she dated and eventually married doesn't bother me. I know that long relationships bring with them a significant amount of sex. Even her friends that were repeat visitors after a while I can now accept.

My problem is this: How can someone have sex with two brothers? How can someone justify having multiple partners within hours of each other? Why is it that she can easily find a random guy to screw casually, but when challenged to do the same, I know that I could not disconnect the spiritual part of sex from the physical? How does she end up at a party hanging out with a group of 7 guys she had sex with?

The thought of these things gets to me. I love her, but hearing about the person she used to be leaves me with this pit in my stomach and the very idea of that type of promiscuity disgusts me.

I am aware that I am no saint, but it seems like we came down opposite sexual paths(I have generally had committed, lasting relationships, and she has had many casual encounters)

Here we are now, meeting in the middle, and we are perfect for each other.

But how do I put myself at peace about her past?

I feel this need to dominate these others guys in some way... I am the first guy to give her a penetration orgasm, and I am the first guy that she has successfully gone down on, and according to her, I am the only guy that she has ever felt really connected to during sex. As great as these achievements are though, I still feel like I need to win in every category.

1. I want to have sex with her more times than all other guys have combined
2. I don't want any of these guys to talk to her EVER again
3. I feel like, bc she has consented to another guy for **** before, that I need to do her that way more times than her previous total(although I have never tried it)
4. You can imagine how long this list actually is... but those are my main concerns

Thank you for taking the time to read all of this, btw.

Knowing that I am by no means sexually pure, and knowing that who she 'used' to be is not who she is now, why can't I just leave those other penises in the past? I find myself sometimes wishing I had taken advantage of the other opportunities I had in my past so that my number of partners would more closely resemble hers, as if that would help... I hate these other guys for sharing in the pleasure of her body. And more than anything else I Despise the 2 twenty-somethings that took advantage of her when she was still a minor. (Admittedly, she allowed/encouraged those encounters, but HOW DARE THEY cash in on the undeveloped sexual desire of a young teenager!) I worry that she compares me to them during sex, although she says she doesn't, and I find myself constantly fighting off images of her doing 2 random guys in a pool full of naked teens/college guys.

I know that I am MUCH MORE sexually conservative than most people my age, and especially moreso than the younger generations are. I also know that nobody is perfect, and nobody is pure. I want to get past this, so that I can love her more than I already do.

Why is this so difficult for me to deal with?

Please help me understand this viewpoint on sex that is so different from mine, so that I can put this person that she used to be in the past where she belongs.

[shezbut]

Hello Wyric,

Have you spoken with your gf about your discomfort with her sexual history? If so, how has she responded? A lot of us have different perspectives on life and sex really.

I see you saying that you understand that you have followed different paths in life than your fiance, but have you ever wondered why she went down the path that she did? Like, maybe she didn't have a real supportive family at home and was trying to escape the stress that she felt by drinking? In many girl's minds, sex will give us love. We are disappointed when Joe or Jim leaves us afterward, but we move on, desperate to find a man who will truly love us. ~Totally different perspective~ And it is not uncommon, especially for girls who had bad experiences growing up. In case you hadn't guessed, I've been there myself.

Yes, I've had quite a few partners, but I'm no spring chicken either. I didn't even start enjoying sex until after I was divorced (a 17 yr fully-committed relationship). While my commitment to my husband was true, I had an extremely difficult time with sex because such shame and self-hate were attached with the act/s. And that deep shame began in my early childhood. While my SA is long gone now, the experience has affected me down to the very core of who I am.

I am trying to open your mind about the possibilities in which there are different numbers for different people. Some girls may be kind of wild at times, yes, just like the majority of men are a little wild. Some girls are also still virgins, just as some men are. In my opinion, what really matters is the person that you see and know right now. Do they have a pattern of cheating (if so, take the relationship very slowly and carefully)? Is there a pattern of loving and leaving (for no apparent reason days or weeks later)? Can they open up about their past and share where they've been emotionally? Have they been tested and passed STD's? Do you respect their perspective on life and their responsibilities/goals? The answers to these Q's are the ones that will give you a better perspective towards your future with your fiance.

I hope that you are either able to come to terms with your fiance's past, rather than looking down upon her for her experiences. Or move on to a relationship that feels more comfortable and less shameful to you. Best wishes!

[Leed]

Hi ~ Shezbut gave you some practical answers, and they were great! I'm going to go in another direction.

Do you believe in God? I hope so. I have a feeling like Shezbut said that your fiance' had some trouble growing up. Perhaps she was looking for love because she didn't feel much love growing up. Many girls look for love in the wrong place. But when she did this with the other guys, God forgave her when she did this. If God forgave her, why can't YOU??? She has already been forgiven. She has stopped that kind of behavior -- she has been forgiven. So isn't it time YOU forgave her? WE aren't bigger than God -- so we should be able to forgive people who have wronged, shouldn't we?

I'm sure she feels bad enough for the both of you, and has asked for forgiveness. So give her the benefit of the doubt, and FORGET all that. If you love her, take her as she is. I'm sure she needs you and love YOU, warts and all. LOL God bless and best of luck to you both. Hugs, Lee

[Victoria'smom]

Quite honestly as a kid I viewed sex as masturbation, I've had several handfuls of "toys". Yes that's all they were to me. I'm no stranger to more than one partner in a night, I enjoy sex. I was my husband's first minus 1 drunken night. Sex is by far different when you view the other as a person. Then you add in that you love and care if the other person is enjoying themselves it's a completely different experience. It's almost to different to compare.

But how do I put myself at peace about her past? Remember that what you have is different. Your comparing apples to oranges. I can't / wouldn't ever compare my husband negativity to them because they have NOTHING on him. Not because he may or may not be better then them (I can't remember, they were toys) but because I care about him and he cares about me.

Am I any different then I was as a kid, probably not. If this relationship ended I'd be back to that until I found a viable partner. I don't feel I'm a bad person for that.

[Perna]

I think you almost understand that it is your head that has the problem; she does not seem to have difficulties with her sexual past, you do. I think you are looking at her like you would look at yourself; just because your habits and ways of looking at it help you with your sexual past, I don't think you should approach another person from your point of view, but from their own.

One big thing I see that might help you is that you see the men/penises as using her (when she was drunk), instead of she, using them. When you have wanted to have sex in the past, you have; how you think about it just makes it right in your own head but is not how someone else would think of it? She is not any different; when she has wanted to have sex, she has; that they were brothers or friends or men off the street, to her, it was just "sex" whereas to you it might be a relationship or potential relationship (although you do say you had a one-night stand in there?).

Pretend you were her and had this background and were okay with it (as you are with your own). Tell yourself that story?

[Wants2Fly]

I am sorry to learn that you are struggling with this.

When I read your question, my gut level response was "So what if she has had more partners?"

Now I understand that this is causing you pain.

Does your GF do anything to cause you pain in the here-and-now? Flirting, etc?

I think the idea of comparisons -- you are the best at this or that -- is bringing out your competitiveness.

Personally, I think people should keep their sexual histories private and go into relationships as new people. Saves a lot of wear and tear on the emotions. But that train done gone from the station.

Letting go of the past is often hard, and I am sorry that you are going through this. I hope you find the right combination to help you get past this.

[Wyric]

Wow, Thanks for all of the responses!

but have you ever wondered why she went down the path that she did?

We have talked about it. She is very open about her past, and after she volunteered some of the information I prodded until she eventually gave me a chronological list of her conquests. As to WHY she went there.... that is less clear. I know her family loved her, being the youngest of 7 kids from one parent or another, but also the only child shared between both parents. They are a kind, loving family. Honestly I think that her partying phase was initiated by the people she hung out with. Her ex-husband, who she dated on and off for basically her entire sexual career is several years older than her(although, not as old as me). He and his friends encouraged the party lifestyle, and many of the early partners occurred I believe as a kind of escape from him, who she considered to be a safe fallback option. I know that after graduating high school, she started hanging out with a girl who always threw parties and encouraged promiscuity. Acting as her best friend at the time, this girl was not really looking out for her, but more using her crazy party experiences as some kind of social currency. I also know that as a young high schooler, she was not popular, so using her body to get attention was easy enough once she grew into it...

She tells me now, that she had never enjoyed sex until me.

In my opinion, what really matters is the person that you see and know right now.

This is so true! over the past week or so, I am slowly finding a balance. One thing that I left out before is that she has a daughter who is almost 2. Her and the long term guy ran off and got married, as a response to his mother being too controlling, and they got pregnant soon after. I am actually very thankful for this, b/c the marriage stopped her from sleeping around, and the baby added years of maturity to her. While we are talking about this crazy her from the past, she has commented that she has lost touch with the her that is in the stories. I really believe that she has completely changed after becoming a mother. And if she hadn't, then I would not be in this situation, b/c I never would have been attracted to that kind of girl. But the person who she is now, is mature and responsible, giving, and committed to me.

If God forgave her, why can't YOU???

1. I am not an orthodox believer of any religion, however I find it more probable than unprobable that if there are sentient beings at all, then there must be a presiding power or order that is also sentient.
2. I have no reason to believe that an omniscient, omnipresent being would find a single being's pathetic emotional quandary to be worth taking special note of.
3. It does seem however, that my journey(and her journey) is much less about individual transgressions, and more about an overall bearing in the physical world of places and in the spiritual world of wisdom and compassion.

I think that I do forgive her. Its just that there are moments when I fall from my high-horse of forgiveness and compassion into this dark place where b/c I have harmed people in the past, I deserve a companion who has been used or that did not respect their body. For me it is less of a God thing and more like Karma is returning to me exactly what I have set myself up for.

But I take your point. Our beliefs are different, but what you say is true. IF I LOVE HER, TAKE HER AS SHE IS. After all, she does that for me, no questions asked. We actually had a great night last night, and it was only 2 of us. No one from the past was tormenting me while we made love.

Not because he may or may not be better then them (I can't remember, they were toys) but because I care about him and he cares about me.

I just don't understand the notion of 'toys' as you put it. Sex is always to me paired with the feelings of a relationship. Without the spiritual connection, there is no reason for me to have sex at all. That is not to say that I don't have my own issues with lust/masterbation. I view that part of me as 'my dark passenger', if I may quote dexter. It is always there in the back of my mind, wanting to objectify women as eye candy or whatever. perhaps that is where the insecurity comes from regarding her past. I am male, and with that comes the urge to... screw any/everything that moves. I am not okay with this, and have never been. I associate feelings of shame with what my body tells me is a NEED, and my mind tells me is a terrible way to view women. I realize that my view is not the majority view--with hook-ups, free love, and general sexual freedom being the prevailing viewpoint. But I don't understand how people are ok with expressing this lust/animal nature. And when I think about her being so free with her body, my body wants me to go to my own place of lust and to objectify her and view her as dirty and to be used sexually.

and, yes, I know that sounds just really terrible. I don't like it, and I don't want it. I know that there is no fulfillment to be had from sexualizing her. I am in love with the sweet, caring her--not the easy, raunchy version of her that I created in my mind.

When you have wanted to have sex in the past, you have; how you think about it just makes it right in your own head but is not how someone else would think of it? She is not any different; when she has wanted to have sex, she has; that they were brothers or friends or men off the street, to her, it was just "sex" whereas to you it might be a relationship or potential relationship (although you do say you had a one-night stand in there?).

Yes. To her, most of these were people that she wanted. b/c when she was 15 she thought the 20 year old waiter was hot, b/c she wanted an escape from her stagnant relationship, and some of her peers were in the right place at the right time. some were 1 time instances with people who had been friends, and who she allowed herself to be vulnerable to. Some were mistakes from a dark time in her life, which she regrets.

I have my own friend who shared my vulnerability, and I have my own dark moments. And to clarify the 'one night stand'--this girl really liked me, and we were alone at her house 1 night, and we started to have sex, but the thought of being with someone who I wasn't really close to got to me, and it ended prematurely--to my embarrassment, and possible luck.

To her, her past is the story of how she didn't feel that sex was really a sacred thing after giving it up to the statutory rapist(even though she consented at 15, she was drunk and he should have had a bit more respect for her). She could easily control her long term boyfriend/husband with sex and just in general, and knew early on that she wanted more. So she got more, from others before getting him to take her back. They broke up for an entire summer, and she went on her dark promiscuous journey, realizing during this time that she did not really recognize/like the person she had become. then follows marriage and baby, and in stagnation, their divorce. Then comes me, who she claims she knew she would marry before we really got to know each other. AND WE, are good for each other. Beyond any comparison to past hook-ups or relationships.

Thank you for the idea. That story sounds like it ends well.

Does your GF do anything to cause you pain in the here-and-now? Flirting, etc?

NO, absolutely not. She told me that when she was married before, that she would always be looking at other guys. but with me, she doesnt want to look at anyone else(with exception to channing tatum.)

I understand that most people would prefer not to drag out their emotional baggage to a new partner. To me though, in order to love someone, I need to understand them, and I need them to understand me. I need everything out on the table, and for us after the past few weeks, it really is. And I feel closer to her than I ever thought possible. I assumed after my divorce that I would never find love again/that I did not deserve to find it. But here it is, so unexpectedly.

I really appreciate all of your input. I had no idea what to expect, venting my problem into cyberspace, but this has been very therapeutic for me(the act of actually putting my concerns into words, and viewing my situation from your perspectives)

Thank you. I would love to hear any other thoughts.

[shezbut]

Hi Wyric,

It's a nice surprise that you decided to post back, addressing certain points made by different PC members. This post being your first, I felt worried that we may have scared you away by sharing our different perspectives of the situation with you!

How long has your gf been divorced? Does she have full-custody of her daughter, or is custody split with her ex? How long have you been with your gf/fiance?

I can't recall if you two are engaged, for some reason I'm thinking that you are. Personally, I would be wary of making a major commitment at this time in your lives. Imo, you need to spend more time together as a couple and some time as a family too. It takes time for children to adjust to the changes in their world. I think that your relationship should be taken slowly, to create a strong sense of stability and trust. That is my personal belief.

You two should also be sure to discuss your beliefs in raising children. What is/isn't acceptable; your parenting styles; acceptable foods, drinks, sleep times & limits; do the both of you want more children? If so, how soon?

Children really complicate romantic relationships. Many couples break apart after having kids, because they never really worked through issues that can pop up as a parent/caregiver. Our children demand all of our time and energy, but we have to figure out other ways to include our love in our daily lives at the same time. NOT an easy task ~ but it is very important!

Best wishes to you and your gf. Hope that her daughter is doing well

[Yoda]

Well it is not something either of you can change even if you wanted to.

So you need to decide to accept it and work on making the relationship good for the two of you or else decide you cannot accept it and end the relationship. No game playing, just honesty.

[Wyric]

How long has your gf been divorced? Does she have full-custody of her daughter, or is custody split with her ex? How long have you been with your gf/fiance?

truth be told, the divorce is not finalized, but should be within a couple weeks. The ex wanted to drag this out to get excess concessions(i.e.: no drinking or drugs while in custody of child) It is not an even split, more of a one night per week and every other weekend deal for him.

You know, I would just love to be wary of commitment so soon( we have been dating approx. 8 months), but i can't seem to stay out of long-term relationships for any length of time. I don't go looking for them, but its like I have this sign on my head that lights up that one time every year or 3 when I am single again. We are already talking about getting married again... This I believe is due to the fact that once you get married, and live the married life, you (or i) forget how to do normal dating. Its more like cohabitation really. In this girl I have found someone who 1. Doesn't annoy me 2. Pleases me Sexually 3. Motivates me to be successful. Upon comparison to my last marriage, this is a vast improvement. I feel like my chances for finding someone are slimming as I get older, and if this young, foxy girl thinks I'm so great, and gets me motivated to be successful, and showers me with affection, WHY should I keep looking? Not to mention that db ex-dad sends a check each month to support a beautiful child conceived under less than ideal circumstances.

I find it so difficult to not invest 100% in every relationship that I have ever had... most of the time to my chagrin, but this time I can see a light at the end of the tunnel. I will be the first to admit that I went blindly into my first marriage, idealizing the whole process, only to find out later that it gets real hard when you and the sig. other get past the point where sex makes everything better. I wish that someone would have pulled me aside and advised me against getting married 1. so young(23) 2. after such a short period of time. but you can't change the past.

Here I am again, knee deep in commitment and loving it. only this time its different. I have had time to face(not necessarily defeat) my demons, and get a perspective on how screwed up I am, I have been humbled by my loss, and I have moved forward in terms of my career(own my own business), but I feel the clock ticking. I want my own children. My line is one that needs to continue(not open for democratic vote) and until next week, I won't know whether or not she is pregnant. (this is a long, somewhat amusing, cosmically ironic tale) and while I know the timing could always be better(IE divorce being finalized, us actually being married 1st) I am ok with this option. I know that the most significant role I will ever play is as a father to my child, and if now is the time, then sobeit.

To me, the child that is already in this relationship is a major draw for why I am staying with it. To be primally blunt, its not everyday that you get to take someone else's awesome kid that they undervalue... And the thought of one of my own just seals the deal. I thought briefly about maybe wanting to go sew some more wild oats, up my sex count a bit while i still am attractive, but that's not me. I just want a family, and I know that the kids will force me to mature, and overcome my demons.
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I found out that she was fb lurking on the virginity taker's wedding photos. 1st of all, screw that guy, and I hope his wife finds him inadequate. 2nd of all, I am really threatened by this, bc I know that the first guy to enter a woman holds some sort of emotional bond over her, even if it was nothing to him. I know it is not to be changed, but seriously, please respect ME enough to leave this asshole behind. Her defense what that she was looking at everyone's wedding photos, but HOW CAN SHE NOT SEE THAT THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THIS PEDOPHILE And anyone else's wedding photos. The worst part is, his family is friends with her family, and she gets to see him at another wedding that she is shooting.

I am accepting her contributions to other guys in the past. It cannot be changed... but every time I see his name I have this stupid combination of rage/nausea. Am I wrong for being so easily upset by the guy that violated my soon-to-be wife while she was still too young to make smart decisions?

I know that this guy, even though they have not talked in years, has some type of power over her. I would argue that it is the same for everyone's first. I like the person that she is now, and I don't want her to be reminded of who she used to be. But she gets upset with me for being bothered when she is looking at his family photos. I feel I am justified in wanting to protect my investment in this relationship. She says it is about me not trusting her, and while I am not worried about her cheating on me or anything, I know that her impressions of these other guys, especially her first, will never leave.

I love the person that she is now, but I fear where she will turn when she eventually gets bored with me, or feels like our relationship has stagnated. Is this fear of mine irrational?