2-part question: Depression/breakups and my big fat mouth

Question 1:
"Does depression make you want to break up with those you love?"

I belong to another support group for spouses/significant others of people who are depressed. One of the more active member's ex-boyfriends apparently suffers from depression, and broke up with her about a year and a half ago after a 2-year relationship. She just can't let go, and blame the entire breakup on depression. She calls depression "The Beast" and how "The Beast won" and only until recently, she was going to "fight The Beast and get my relationship back". Her ex-bf has threatened restraining orders against her and has called the cops upon seeing her in a parking lot or thinking she has driven by his house. I have no doubt that she's given him plenty of good reasons to think she is stalking him, although only in a "I miss you" way instead of "I'm going to do something bad to you" way. It's intrusive, nonetheless.

Anyway, this has been going on for two years now (she started in the group before he clearly, definitively SCREAMED at her that he doesn't want to see her again). At the beginning, we were all ultra-supportive. Now, there are a few members who cheer "you go girl" to everything she says, even though it has become clear (to me, anyway) that there is way more to the story than we're hearing.

So, I opened my big mouth as follows:
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Her (directly to me):
there seems to be alot of connection between social anxiety and D....
any knowledge of this???? J and his dad both have social anxiety. dad is diagnosed with D and J will admit to D occasionally (he has to get very down, lonely and scared for him to admit to it).
i guess i'm asking these questions....not because of hopes of getting J back, but with hopes of coming to piece with all of this, so i can move on and know (and know without a doubt), that J and i did not destroy us, but the D. that i did all that i could...and that the rest was up to him. i guess i am seeking some answers that i will never get...but you have given me some good "food for thought" and appreciate it.
i need to accept this...not just that J is gone..but accept that there is such a horrible illness out there that destroys love. i always thought...when i 1st came here...that everyone would conquer this and live happily ever after. i've seen to many families and way to many friends lose their loved ones to this illness. i guess an issue that i have never dealt with is...is the fact that i have to accept this....accept the fact that love will not and can not fight the beast. and that in most cases.....we all lose the one we love.
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Me:
Question for you: why is so important to you that you want D to be the blame for your breakup? Honestly, it doesn't seem like D to me. Not to be harsh, but he just sounds like he lost interest and eventually got turned off by your neediness. I feel like you are grasping at straws with the D reasons. I mean, you could take almost anybody's moods and apply the D symptoms. I truly think you are looking to blame D so that you don't have to take his rejection personally, and while I hope you do whatever is the most soothing for you, at the same time it's not healthy to avoid facing the reality.
I could be very wrong -- I don't know you ALL that well, despite being on the same board with you for what, 2 years now? And I don't know him at all. But, I am getting this feeling (and others have told you similar things) just based on your side of the story. Normally, it's easy to side with the person you're hearing the story from, but a lot of things just don't add up in J's case.
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Well, I did expect that she would be upset at it, but really, I did feel like I would have done her a disservice to say "yes yes, you hit it on the head, he broke up with you because he was depressed". Because... I really don't feel that way. My husband was paralyzed with depression for months, and he never suggested leaving me. In fact, only in rare cases HERE does anyone even mention their significant others. But the fact is, on the other forum, about half of the people there seem to get the "I'm not sure if I love you anymore" and BAM! They blame it on "The Beast" -- not because their partners merely had a change of heart.

Question 2:
What should I do if I see a friend rattle on and on and on about how depression ruined a perfectly good relationship, and I don't believe it is depression? Should I:
A) do as I always do and "set the world straight", which tends to hurt people, sometimes badly?
B) keep my mouth shut?

Thanks Friends,
LMo

In fact, since I keep doing the same thing here with my big fat mouth, what would your CANDID advice be to me with regard to how I respond to people?

Do you all find me to be too blunt? Too insensitive? Do I butt in where I don't belong?

I really would like your honest feedback here. My feelings don't get hurt easily and I am not fragile, so please be as open with me as you can. PM me if you're more comfortable with constructive criticism that way.

I am not looking for "LMo, you're great, you're wonderful". I really want to improve if that would make me a better friend to you here and in 3D.

Thanks all,
Love,
LMo

I see you as quick-witted and very bright . You cannot pace yourself in a conversation that takes place in text-you cant read the eyes- so non-verbal communication isnt represented either. Its possible that a long post like the example from the other board might have taken her far longer to formulate and write than it appears when its entered on screen. Then a quick reply might appear to be glib to another whose senses might also be dulled by meds. Thats a possible scenario to consider with that person on the other board. But as far as I've seen here your posting is thoughtfull and often preemptive of a dispute. I hope you dont go anywhere even as you take a break.

Whoa -- Kathyanita -- that is EXCELLENT insight. Glib... I probably do seem glib and do tend to reply quickly rather than think things through. More often than not, I agree with my quick assessment rather than consider it to be shooting from the hip, but you are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT that my replies might get taken that way.

Thank you VERY much for this thoughtful feedback, KA!

Love,
LMo

No prob-

i get myself in trouble IRL as I've found I'm listenimg faster than you're talking. . .
Even when an answer is resonable and well thought sometimes its a comfort to people to imagine you are sweating over an issue as much as they have.
Then again a lot of times I'm dull as dishwater so I enjoy the chance to be sharp and on the ball.

Hi Lmo!

I see four components to question #1 (so far, I should say ):

1. WAS/IS depression his primary issue? After two years of being on the same board with each other, it seems like that would have been pretty much a constant theme if it were accurate. If now, two years later, she is zeroing in on this as the reason and almost having to justify/describe how it could fit, it doesn't seem all that... fitting. I do think it would be hard not to have been pretty sure of that long ago, at least if they spent a lot of time together.

2. If it's not accurate, is it best not to point that out? I think we have to be open to picking up on potential clues about ourselves and any things that really may be hard or impossible for others to deal with. Because otherwise we can't grow, and have a better experience next time. Now, of course we don't know if this guy was a prize, a good or fair person. But in general, she should at least be open to seeing patterns in herself, that may indeed be there, things that really may need to change. So letting herself pin blame elsewhere isn't helping her ensure her own future happiness with someone else.

3. Was she strong enough to hear it? I don't have enough experience to know how that kind of thing breaks down regarding *disorders,* and if/when it is best not to risk upsetting someone. But, while she does sound like a sensitive person, she signed on as the S.O. of one with a mental/emotional problem, not the afflicted one. So ostensibly, I'd imagine she would be (and that you'd assume she was) reasonably up for the truth or should be, even it was potentially unsettling.

4. Are people with depression often moved to break up with someone based on that? That's trickier, so I'll talk about meeee. I do think it happens, at least I can feel it in myself. I don't have depression as a primary issue, more like an occasional ramification of primary ones. But from the outside looking in, I think people could easily label my whole "complex" as depression, for the way it holds me back and because one thing or another always feels out of sorts, and I can't plan, and need to keep to myself about it and be alone a lot. It is very hard for me to let someone in and let them stay in.

If they met me in what seemed like good times I know it won't last and feel like I'm defrauding them. In long term relationships I've gotten to where I can let someone in at most times, and I am not necessarily "down" in my bad times. But I usually don't want to go anywhere, and can stay in that mode for a long time. So I've broken up with people if in their heart of hearts I knew they craved an active, spontaneous life; and progression and more time together; and I just couldn't stand how it all made me feel after awhile. But! I am different from many people in that while I do like people and am good with them, I am also perfectly content alone, indefinitely. Completely alone. And I don't feel a need to talk. So with me the craving for privacy in my really bad times can easily outweigh the benefits of the relationship, and I may very well break up with someone... feeling it's definitely for their own good too.

Question #2, you! Well, obviously I'm pretty new, and I don't read a large percentage of the board at all. So in reality I haven't seen big concentrations of your posts. I do know I have seen very good sense in many that I have read, and that my gut impression from that has been that you're sharp, friendly and open-minded. But to "educatedly" answer what you've asked, I guess I'd need to have seen more or to have been here longer.

Tell ya what, if I get up to speed on a more diverse selection, I'll check in again then! Regardless, it does seem that your heart is in the right place, and that if you "slip," you're open to hearing it, and you care about it. Those are the most important ingredients I'd imagine...

Holy Post, Batwoman!!!!! Thanks Miss Surfy!

1. WAS/IS depression his primary issue?
A: Well, HE didn't believe he was depressed. She had gone through the symptoms and DECIDED that he was depressed. Then kind of shoved "YOU ARE DEPRESSED AND NEED HELP" down his throat. Nobody likes being told how they feel and I imagine it was a major turnoff for him. Honestly, while we all have some of the symptoms of depression sometimes, he just didn't seem clinically depressed to me; the only evidence is that he pushed her away.

2. If it's not accurate, is it best not to point that out?
A: Maybe. I guess that's my question. If I were obsessed with an inaccurate idea, I would hope that my friends would intervene. But maybe she doesn't really want that.

3. Was she strong enough to hear it?
A: She took it well, but then again, many of the members were saying the exact same thing to her (in a more sugar-coated way) and she seemed to take it well then, too. But then her next post would be about how "The Beast" destroys all love.

4. Are people with depression often moved to break up with someone based on that?
A: Your last sentence here was powerful: "So with me the craving for privacy in my really bad times can easily outweigh the benefits of the relationship, and I may very well break up with someone... ". Well that's the thing... private people are private. Privacy requirements might be heightened when people don't feel good about themselves, but the fact remains that they are private and when one is depressed and their space is invaded with a partner who MUST KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON AND WHY ARE YOU PUSHING ME AWAY, then it seems to me the lack of respect for private space causes the breakup, rather than the feelings of depression.
However, I was sad when I read what you wrote here: "I may very well break up with someone... feeling it's definitely for their own good too." I would hope you let your partners have a say in that decision about what is for their 'own good'. As adults, each of us are capable of deciding what is for our own good, and I would hate to be dumped because someone else made that decision for me.

You may 'refrain' from posting often, MissSurfy, but when you DO post... man!!!!! Quality over quantity! Thank you SO MUCH!

Thank you! Back at ya, and might I also compliment you on your typing!! I ENVY how quickly you just got that up there!!

And thanks for this... This was a HUGE "bingo!" for me! I only wish more people could embrace this concept:

"Well that's the thing... private people are private. Privacy requirements might be heightened when people don't feel good about themselves, but the fact remains that they are private and when one is depressed and their space is invaded with a partner who MUST KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON AND WHY ARE YOU PUSHING ME AWAY, then it seems to me the lack of respect for private space causes the breakup, rather than the feelings of depression."

You are RIGHT! These days I describe what I could handle (and who knows, I might improve) as a "long-time companion." Committed, but without traditional roles and expectations. Let anticipation of the good times carry us through the... inert times. I won't be actively upset or needing to endlessly bend an ear or act out or whatever, so what I really need and appreciate is someone who can pretty much pretend it isn't there. And also understand that it's an ongoing thing, and "this time" will probably never be the "last time."

And I'm just as guilty of invading my husband's space as my friend in the other forum was for invading her ex-bf's space. But she can't see that...

Anyway, MissSurfy my lovely and talented new friend, I think you very much for the thoughtful reply and insight. I'm so happy that you and my other lovely and talented new friend KathyAnita were kind enough to help me figure this one out!

Love,
LMo