Don't understand people who can't get out of bed.

Thanks Babysteps. well put.

What if someone was towalk up to you and say "Stop the depression already!"

If you've never been deeply depressed enough that you couldn't get out of bed, then you're lucky.

I've been there once. I hope I never get there again

A quick question; has this thread gotten a wee bit out of control? It seems everytime it begins to calm down, than Peg gets called on to defend herself again. She explained herself, we explained ourselves, can we not move on? I realize that people are sensitive about this, and that people feel hurt, but it also feels like Peg is getting what is really menat for all those other people out there who don't get it. That's not right.

Thanks to all above who defended the position of those of us who find bed the safest place to be and find it so difficult to move or have physical activity of any kind. Those who are able to "Just do it anyway" are truly blessed and fortunate and, apparently, feel different in their depressive states. There are different forms of depression, esp. in the older diagnostic criteria. Those who do not have to stay in bed to avoid the waves of doom and hopelessness that knock one down in any case are truly blessed and are hopefully grateful. billieJ

I think that, often, physical conditions, undiagnosed, cause the extreme loss of energy that make it virtually impossible to get out of bed. These conditions accompany and contribute to, depression. As a former psych. SW, I had a patient whose increasing stays in bed with depression heralded the onset of the catatonia which accompanied her depressive states. She literally became increasingly unable to move. I have seen multiple patients with similar symptomology. Finally, I think it is possible that this form of retreat and immobility may reflect a passive form of suicidal behavior, particularly when accompanied by inability to eat. This does not mean that suicide results but only that the person is taking flight from life, insofar as is possible without committing an active act. This last is only a thought. billieJ

sorry i haven't read the whole thread. i'v been like that before though. Its awful feeling. Can be pretty difficult to understand if you never been there. It would be easy to just say get off your *** but its not always that easy.. I even used to well at myself inside my head to get off my *** and get up, i used to plan in my thoughts what steps i needed to take to get my day started and to even get out of bed but sometimes the only thing that got me up was needing to in to the toilet and then i fought to stay up and up get some food or drink. Some days i stay in my pajamas til the arvo.. Its not a good thing and thats why i can't work at the moment. Its has. When i was in hospital the nurse used to get me up to have a shower and get some clothes on it was helpful to have that help at that time. I'm doing ok now.

Hugs to you all! It is an awfull feelin not one to be mocked an taken lightly! Keep strong my friends! As i am trying! Hugs!

ok now i'v read the whole thread and i don't think peg meant harm by it. Its really something thats hard to understand and its probably good if those that have experienced it can try to explain it so those that don't get it can understand.

*hugs everyone*

I don't think anyone has meant any harm at all here, they're just expressing their opinions and that's GOOD! That's a part of growing and getting better too


Pegasus, in one of your replies you said "You CAN try, you CAN do. "

To me this is a perfect example of why this thread has been filled so quickly. In your post it's OBVIOUS support. There's the lovey smiley, and it's a positive affirming statement. YOU CAN! I BELIEVE in you!

At the same time in view of what we've been saying I realize that sometimes it's just not possible. I realize that there have been days where I have set my goals and tried SO HARD to achieve. Everyone fails at some point, and depression makes that even more likely no matter how hard you try. Maybe something we all need to work on is moving through our FAILURES. I know for me I will beat myself over and over again for making just one fail or mistake. Like getting out of bed. This sounds ridiculous but sometimes I'll fail at getting out of bed and when I finally do wake up I'll be so angry and upset at myself I'll give in to depression - cry... I'll try to make myself coffee to get going and the tears keep coming.

Sometimes I'll also set goals WAY too high.

So maybe we need a mix of the "can try can do", setting reasonable goals, and also being forgiving of ourselves when we TRY our very best but just can't do.

So three steps:
1. Set reasonable goals
2. Try try try!!!
3. Be forgiving of shortcomings - don't lost energy by crying over spilt milk, save it up for try try trying again tomorrow


Hugs to everyone in this thread =) I know this has been a long thread and I hope no one's feelings have been too bruised

I think if you have responsibilities, you can tend to them, but you'll tend to them with the least effort and energy. That's why some people stay in bed. They know they're going to do a terrible job anyway, so why bother...

Wow. This thread had made me feel like sh--. I hear that daily from my family. Even my insurance woman told me "Well you need to pull yourself up by the bootstraps and get over it" That's what she said. Made me feel like a failure and not to mention it was offensive and embarrassing. Is this what people think of people like me? Somedays, I just cry and cry and cry. That's why I'll stay in bed. Other days I am so scared that if I get out of bed or off the couch, something bad will happen to me (agoraphobia). I will go for weeks without leaving my house. That in itself will depress you to the point of lying in bed all day. I wish like hell I could get my *** out of bed. I would love to wake up one day and not be so scared of the "what if's" or be able to go outside without being self consciuse because of the way people around here have called me lazy. You can try all you want to get out of bed but for alot of people wth depression and anxiety or in my case PTSD it's not a matter of trying or being lazy or not wanting to get out of bed. I'm sure people don't lay in bed and wallow cause they want too. I know I don't. I can see how pegs words offend not much offends me anymore I've heard it all including what she wrote. I've heard worse and that was from people who supposedly love and support me. But it did make me feel like sh--.

Sometimes depression is so intense that you have absolutley no motivation for anything. Sometimes dealing with life is too much to handle. Feelings of worthlessness, not being motivated, dealing with consequences from feeling this way, and just dealing with people in general is way too much. People deal with depression differently, and some people have it worse than others. You"re right , you don't understand and probably wont until you experience it yourself. Your not missing out on anything great believe me. So, be happy you don't understand it hopefully you'll never have to.

Clinical Depression effects people in different ways and while some people can carry on in life while dealing with severe depression others cannot seem to mustard up enough mental energy to get out bed, let alone take a shower and go out side.

I have been on both sides of depression with in the last twelve years of my life and I can honestly say that both are real.

Like the wise man said, "if there were a million bucks on the floor three feet away, a depressed person could not get out of bed to get the money."

You know what! I apologized for the insensitive way that I put it. (What more do you want?) It wasn't meant as an insult. It was meant to motivate you.

I think it's now turned more into a catalyst for people to express how they feel when they've heard what they've heard from others Pegasus and not really directed at you anymore (and shouldn't be since I think you well-clarified your intent earlier on).

Everyone, and you can tell me to shut up if you want but I'm going to say it anyway and hope you don't take offense because you should know from my posts how I feel about us all, what was typed was typed and it seems to still be striking a nerve with people which in a way is a good thing BECAUSE it means we're not so numbed from the effects of this disease that we can't still try to defend ourselves. Feel proud of yourself for caring enough to defend your point of view! As for Peg, she doesn't really deserve any attacks either. We're all here because we choose to be my friends. We offer our support and in return we get love and care from others who've experienced similar problems.

OK, now go about crucifying me if you wish. I don't mind I've had abuse from the worst of people before. Just before you do, please bear in mind that I'm here because I truly love and care about you all, whether I've talked to you before or not, know you IRL or not. I care because you're suffering like all of us in this world. YOU my friends, just have the courage and bravery to admit it. To admit that you're not gods. The strength to allow your wounds to be exposed because that's the only way they can start to heal..

Ok...let the arrows fly.

Chris

Peg I realize now that you really didn't mean to be offensive. I was extremely put off because I thought you were in the mental health field and therefore more enlighten on this subject.

I personally do not understand SI. I get it logically, but it's not something that I can wrap my head around how this becomes a coping thing for them so I avoid that topic. I'm sure that my advice of just stop doing it would not be helpful to anyone that struggles with this issue. I assume they need someone that has gone through it before to be helpful to them.

I also avoid the threads that ask for help what to say to a loved one when they are so depressed that they can't function, but for a different reason. I've been that non-functioning person, and there was nothing anyone could say or do to help me (other than professional medical care). That mode also has it's own self-preservation quality. If I had the energy to move at all I would have killed myself. I had a plan, I just didn't have the energy to execute it. I was lucky enough to have a husband that somehow realized I made a shift and called the emergency hotline. I was too lethargic to even protest him dragging me out of bed and to the doctor... unshowered in my pajamas. I never ever want to be in that place again. I love my kids more than anything on this planet, and even my love for them could not break through the darkness. It scares me to this day how close I was to hurting them like that. To that end when I even think I'm flirting with the edge of the danger zone I immediately contact my doctor. He knows me well and I have a standing order at his office that if I call and say I have to see him I get in, whether he's booked solid for a month or on vacation I have that appointment within the hour.

I'm also a firm believer in tough love. Very often there is a huge difference between what someone wants to hear and what they need to hear. But in this case it's more about what you can do and what you're able to do. To me it was similiar to someone "motivating" their child by calling them stupid so that the child would attempt to prove them wrong and work harder on their homework.

I think all has been said that could possibly be said.

Why don't we put this thread to bed.

Thank you, Berries, I agree. Unfortunately I think that it has lived long enough. Peg, Thunderbear, Briester and all of you who posted, I hope that you all have a warm and peaceful day

they dont mean they cant ACTUALLY physically cant get out of bed, its just they see no reason in going out into the real world. everyone has responsibilities and commitments but its really a matter of their mental state

just wanted to let you know that I agree with Briester. I no longer think replies on this are meant in any way to indicate anger at peg, but to dicuss what they feel about it.

((((((((((((((((((((pegasus))))))))))))))))))))))))

Briester.... I think you are right. this has just become a thread about having heard that kind of statement and how it has made people feel.
Pegasus....It's a good thing you said it (even though not how it was intended) because obviously a lot of us have heard it and people need to share their feelings about how they felt. so thank you for opening that door.

Thunderbear..... ((((HUGS!!))))

Pegasus,

I read all of the posts in this thread. Even after reading only the first one, I could have told you that I respected what I felt you were trying to say. I also understand why it made some people defensive. In the past, I would have been fuming, but when I read it today, I didn't get mad or offended. I heard where you were coming from, and respected it. I am not saying that there is no one with depression who really can't get out of bed- if the depression is severe enough, maybe they can't, or at least, it might take super human strength for them to fight it enough to get up, which, let's face it, none of us having....being human. However, I think with a lot of depressed individuals- myself included- we can physically get out of bed, even if we struggle mentally/emotionally to do so, and even if we are fairly drained of physical energy from depression. I think that was one of your points- that we can get up. That it is partially choice, and we do need to realize that we have that control, even if it is difficult to exert it.

I thought you were also saying we need to try to push through this, which is a good point. Making yourself work through it is healthier, I believe, most of the time. I think it's one thing to take some time out to wallow in our own miseries, but another thing to do this for months on end and even years on end. I think it's even important to allow ourselves some recovering time, some time to rest, etc., but if it is chronic, I think it not only damages our lives and relationships, but prob. feeds our depression to lay in bed for months and years, disconnected, never really going out, communicating with others, or doing anything in our lives. I can also respect that we shouldn't say we are literally incapable of getting out of bed, unless we are, and should be thankful we are still capable, if we are. Not to say we have nothing to be upset about, of course.

With that said, I think for MOST people, this is an expression, not meant to be taken entirely literally. I think most folks mean, not that they actually can't get out of bed, but that it is very difficult for them to will themselves to get out of bed. They may be very drained physically, since depression can be physically draining, leaving you tired. They might feel there is little point in getting up, little to get up for. They might also feel a desire to do the opposite- to just sleep, so they don't have to deal with life, and so they can perhaps not think of their worries for a moment. In fact, sometimes, this might be best. There have been days, I've slept to avoid this, because at that moment, it just seems to strong, too painful...and I know if I stay conscious, instead of trying to sleep it off (well, not off, but hoping when I wake up it won't be AS strong), it would possibly be emotionally damaging. I also agree with...was it Lynn P?....who said some days it's better for me to stay in bed, because in my mental state at that moment, I might do something very self destructive if up and about.

People may also lack emotional strength and energy- lack the drive- to will themselves to get up, esp. when they feel getting up is pointless (depression can make important things seem less significant and make you care less about consequences of not attending to those things), and when you feel sleeping in is beneficial. You need your will to fight that. If your emotional/mental drive/energy is beaten down due to the depression, and your physical energy is also, this is going to be difficult (mentally) to do. It can be done, but it won't be easy and many people will just lay there.

Some people also have less responsibilities than others, in which case, this becomes even easier to do, since you don't have...babies, for example....to get up for. I have to say, a baby would prob. be the biggest motivator for many people, since they are pretty helpless on their own, and if you are the only person at home, you have to care for them or else, no one will. But we don't all have kids, and those that do aren't all home alone. I know we all have some responsibilities- even if it's just do get up and help out in the world, we should be doing it- and I accept when I lay in bed, it is choice, but sickness does make it a struggle to get up. I think you realize it isn't easy, though.

Some people, esp. when their judgement is clouded by depression (maybe experiencing apathy, which is a symptom of depression), might shuck some important responsibilities (not saying this is okay, just saying it happens). When Nypheria said, "When your depression is so bad where you do not give a crap because you cant think...." I hooked on that "you do not give a crap". That is part of depression sometimes. And as others said, you feel there is no future, that nothing you do will matter, etc. And you know if you do get up and do something, it will be prob. be shoddily done in that mind state, so you feel even less like trying (esp. if you're a perfectionist and figure if you ain't gonna do it perfect, why bother?).

Also, I have to agree that, while I personally am just a weak *&^ and should get up, some people have been through some really horrible stuff, and I can understand them just giving up and going into voluntary extended sleep-comas.

BillieJ said, "Finally, I think it is possible that this form of retreat and immobility may reflect a passive form of suicidal behavior, particularly when accompanied by inability to eat. This does not mean that suicide results but only that the person is taking flight from life, insofar as is possible without committing an active act." I agree with this. Often times I think there is this thought or desire to just sleep life away. To escape life through unconsciousness, and sometimes you think you could lay there forever until you're dead. If people aren't eating or caring for themselves, it also seems more like a passive suicide attempt. Otherwise, maybe it's just the desire to escape, and perhaps, to a degree, to die, for some. Thankfully, unlike killing yourself, you can recover from this.

Someone said something about, they would starve if they didn't get out of be. As Billie has pointed out, some people laying in bed are starving themsleves, too. So for some people, this is no deterrent. But of course, knowing you have only yourself to depend on is a motivator for doing something that might help some people.

Anyway, as for my personal experience, I once spent a Summer in bed back in my younger years. I hardly ever showered because it would mean getting out of bed for awhile (a fair amount of time since collected filth takes longer to clean off, and I also had OCD, so cleansing took me awhile, anyway) and it would have required effort. Since I wasn't showering, I didn't change clothes. I got up to use the bathroom when I'd put it off as long as I could. I ocassionally ate, but I didn't eat often because I was unconscious most of the time. After each small, ocassional thing I did, I went straight back to bed. I even ate the food in bed, returned the plate to the kitchen, got back in bed and went unconscious (or did I take the plate back?). I hardly ever left the house, and when I did, it was about the only time I showered. When I returned, I crawled back into bed. It was selfish to do so when I could have been helping out in the world, checking on friends, etc., but I didn't have a job at the time, and school was out, so there were some responsibilities that you have that weren't nudging me to get up. I don't know what I would have done in a diff. situation. I do know that if I sleep that long now, I get a headache, but at the time, I could sleep almost constantly, and it never seemed to be too much sleep. Most people in school try to have fun during the Summer instead of wasting it and throwing it away, because they know soon they'll be back in class. It was supposed to be fun time, but I was depressed, and I just spent my vacation and fun time, unconscious for the most part. It lasted for the entire Summer, from what I recall. People thought I was sick physically, but it was nothing like that. It was all emotional/mental.

Although I think the way in which you worded it will cause some people to act too defensively to really hear you and get what you are saying, I understand that you are making the point that those of us who are capable of choosing to get up and push on- even if it is a huge struggle- need to try our absolute hardest to do so, because as difficult as it is, if we can choose to push through it, we need to acknowledge that power that we have and use it...... because it could benefit us to do so, and as long as we have choice and capability, we have responsibility to do so and we need to accept that. We have to accept it, to change anything. Before anyone jumps me, please note that I am not judging you, and please take notice that when I am talking, I am NOT referring to EVERYONE with depression or MI. Also, you might want to note that, I don't really push through like I should and could. I just know I need to- and can. But it is hard.

Thank you for sharing and understanding. You put it all very well. I have much respect for your thoughtful and honest response.