[forgoten]

I come from a large familly. 5 brothers and 2 sisters. I'm not close to any of them. I'm the black sheep, the evil one. They don't like me because I don't do what they want me to do or say. My meaning of life is different from theirs and they don't accept the way I am. It doesn't really bother me if they don't like me. What bothers me is why do they always try to get into my life just to hurt me, to judge me. Why can't they just stay away from me?

Nobody has to answer this. I just had to write it down.

Thank you
Forgoten

[LMo]

Hey Forgotten: If it's any consolation, I am also the black sheep in my family. It's weird, too, because actually I'm pretty proud of myself with regards to the things they look down on! I seem to myself like an unlikely candidate for being the black sheep, but sometimes there isn't any logic or reason behind one's family's expectations. You just gotta be yourself.

Rock on, Forgotten!
LMo

We are ALL going to be a-ok!

[SeptemberMorn]

baaaaaa!! baaaaaaaa!!

Black<font color=blue> sheep number 3, here! I only have half siblings that I didn't grow up with and I didn't have to live up to their expectations nor my mom comparing me to them, but I have 13 cousins and all of them have titles and degrees after their names. My mom always made sure I knew how disappointed she was in me because I didn't covet those degrees, titles and status. All I wanted was to be the best mother and wife I could be. It wasn't good enough for my mom. She also took perverse pleasure in embarassing me in front of all my cousins and two aunts. Now that we are all old, I got my nerve up to explain to one of the babies of another family how I had always felt like less than them. She said she never would have guessed. She thought I was just arrogant and stuck up because I was the only child. Ha! I was shy and insecure.

I've decided that what I am is good enough for me! It makes me happy! I was the best mom I could be even though I made mistakes. I was the best wife... and still am, that I know how to be... and now I've learned that I'm more than good enough to care for myself, too, and not just "them." I'm old but it's never too late.<font color=blue>

<font color=blue>This above all: To thine own self be true. --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

[heidu]

Black Sheep number 4. Nobody's ever been able to tell me what to do or not. If my mom new the things I did growing up she would be horrified. She's already horrified at what she does know.
Plus then you gotta know that no one was excited that I was leaving the country....where are they when I ask for help?

You gotta be you. Be kind, be honest, be respectful but be you.

Heidu

The highest reward for a person's toil is not what they get for it, but what they become by it.
John Ruskin

[heatherm]

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{forgoten}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Black sheep #5 here I come from a family of 8 (5 girls and 3 boys). I actually have a painting that was given to me years ago that is a scene of rolling hills, lush greenery, a brook running through it with animals on the hillside. Guess what stands out to me the most? A beautiful black sheep....which depicts me

I used to think I was adopted as I never felt like I belonged with them...there is quite an age gap between the older ones and myself and baby brother (I am the youngest girl). Him and I are close but the rest of them? uh uh...but you know? It's ok...I am more accepting of it now than I was years ago. I never felt more alone than I did the day of my Mom's funeral...they were all on one side of the room and there I was...it was sad when I think about it but I am ok ..the same thing happened at my Dad's funeral as well. I was so close to both my parents that I sometimes think they were jealous of our closeness.

I used to want to have the close knit family that you imagine a big family would be like and we are nowhere near that. The rest of them are super close...almost like 2 families in one.

Keep your head high and know that you are special. Black sheep are unique and that is what you are. Live your life for you and noone else.


Heather

"The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to change and the REALIST adjusts his sails." ~~~author unknown

[LMo]

Black Sheep #5 -- Black Sheep #2 here!
Something you said made me realize something about myself. For me, also, it really used to bother me... not so much that I was the black sheep, but that I was constantly disappointing or embarrassing my family, and consequently getting criticized.

But the point is that it doesn't bother me NEARLY as much now as it did before. It's true that as you get older, other people's opinions of you bother you less. Forgotten -- keep that in mind, ok? My family's opinion still matters to me and it still hurts when they criticize my decisions, but I've also realized that neither my dad nor my brother are risk-takers and I am -- so maybe I'm the black sheep and different than they are, but it doesn't mean I am bad or make the wrong decisions for myself.

One other thing that I have to keep in mind is that the most important thing is for me to trust myself... I cannot let my dad's criticism eat away at my own sense of better judgement. I have told myself that I will listen to his advice (even if it hurts) and consider what he is recommending, but if it goes against my better judgement, I'm going to do what I need to do. Of course, he always interprets that as me "being stubborn" and "not listening" and "making the wrong choice", but you know... that was the greatest relief for me, when I realized that there is more than one way to see it. He can only see things one way -- I am lucky because I have realized that it's not all black and white. So..... HA!

We are ALL going to be a-ok!

[Rapunzel]

I've always been a black sheep too. My family had very high standards and a set way of doing things which they did not expect anybody to challenge. My younger sister never challenged anything, but I did. (I'm the oldest of 6). I ran away to college (going away to college didn't match with their plans) at 19 and hardly ever heard from my family at all for about 10 years. Gradually we've been reopening communication and it turns out that they thought I was mad at them all that time and I thought they didn't want me / had forgotten about me. They are a lot more accepting of me and what I do now than I ever expected they would be.

There's nothing wrong with black sheep. I have about 20 sheep, and only two of them are white (and those have colored markings). I like diversity, and prefer people (or sheep or whatever) that stand out. We're probably pretty much all black sheep here. Isn't it great! And I love the white sheep too - guess why - because they stand out!

<font color=purple>"The real problem of mental life is not why some people become insane, but rather why most avoid insanity." -Erich Fromm</font color=purple>

[LMo]

Observations on the Black Sheep phenomenon:
- many people on this board (depressed or not) are black sheep. Maybe we black sheep are on a search for a "community" more than we admit to ourselves
- the black sheep that have rung in so far seem to be pretty comfortable with the idea that they are different
- we seem to have our own ideas for what we want, and that sense of individuality is spectular, in my opinion
- we all are addicted to South Park (oh wait... that's just me)
- we probably all have a bit more compassion for people who are different than the "white sheep" in our family - also spectacular

This was a good thread to start, Forgotten, even if you said we didn't have to reply! Thanks!

We are ALL going to be a-ok!

[forgoten]

It doesn't bother me at all not to be close to them. I don't want to be like them, the farther the better. I don't care if I'm the black sheep or the evil one or whatever, what does bother me the most is they are hurting people that I love to get to me. They know it is the only way they will get to me and they are surely succeding. One day I will walked out of their life for ever and I will not turn back.

[LMo]

Wait a minute, Forgotten. You sound pretty pissed off. What are some examples of how are they hurting people you love to get back at you? Who is doing this -- your parents? What do you think their motive is?

Can we talk about this? I promise not to hug you!

Your friend,
LMo

We are ALL going to be a-ok!

[kvinneakt]

Black sheep number 6 here.

Actually, I am ok with my family, but my wife's family is another matter. She and I are WAY, WAY off the bottom of their charts. Her brothers and sister are 2 very wealthy attorneys and one frequently published, world government leader consulting economist. One is a good friend of the mayor of Oakland for added bonus points. Of course they live in very fine homes in the most expensive neighborhoods. My wife and I are at the bottom of the food chain and live in an small old cottage where we don't even have a guest room.

We always feel quite timid when at family gatherings where the affairs of the world are discussed with great intellectual depth. They are all very nice people and there is no hostility, but the feelings of inadequacy are unavoidable. We are going to have Thanksgiving dinner with them. It never fails to be a humbling experience.

Gee, I forgot myself for a moment. If I "out" myself to either family, I am guaranteed to slip even further into the blackness. That would really be something!

Wherever you go, there you are

[LMo]

You're number 7, KV. Rapunzel is #6. And if you count her black sheep, that actually makes you #27, or something like that.

But KV - I still don't get it. What would you be outing yourself about? You said you're not gay. You said you're not interested in cross-dressing. You said you're not interested in gender reassignment. You still love your wife and don't plan to leave her. So what exactly do you feel like you're hiding?

Your friend,
LMo

We are ALL going to be a-ok!

[forgoten]

Dear LMo, don't stop sending me hugs, I need them too much.

No, I'm not pissed off sweety, I don't have any anger in me. I'm just hurt. I wish they would just leave me alone. Just forget me.

My sisters and brothers they are really mean and don't care if they hurt people. I'm one of their target.
Who they hurt to get to me?
My 3 childrens. They say lies about them and they brake their heart.
My mother who I'm responsible for. They hurt her to get to me.

Why? I don't know. I guess they don't accept who I am.

Thank you!
forgoten

[kvinneakt]

Thanks for the re-orientation. I am number 27. (Do you recall the Brit sci-fi The Prisoner?)

You are right, I don't need to "out" myself to anyone other than my wife about anything. If I do, though, you know a gender bender will peg the meter on "Queer" no matter what. That is just the way people are. So, I will be keeping my mouth shut. I am not taking off my earrings, though, and they will be quietly controversial.

Wherever you go, there you are

[LMo]

ohmygod, Forgotten - I am so sorry - for whatever reason, I was seeing the username "Foolish" and thought I was talking to our other friend who is only 19, doesn't have sisters, and no kids that I know about! As far as I know, has a good relationship with his parents. And he doesn't like virtual hugs! My fault!!!!!!!!!!

Okay, back to you...
Well, if there is any chance of them hurting your children, you must keep them separated. Guaranteed. Your mother... well that is a tough one. If they are hurting her and she wants it to stop, and if you are her caregiver, then you must keep her away from them, too.

Do you have anyone in a church or community center that can coordinate a discussion? Gosh, Forgotten, I agree with you that it's a big problem, and I think you a real person should help you with it.

But tell us more, if you want. Examples help.

I send you lots and lots of hugs {{{{{Forgotten}}}}}}}}}

Your friend,
LMo

We are ALL going to be a-ok!

[LMo]

YOU GOT THE EARRINGS???????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


We are ALL going to be a-ok!

[kvinneakt]

Pierced and decorated.



Wherever you go, there you are

[SeptemberMorn]

Kvin, ever since you first posted I've been wondering what exactly you are worrying about. Maybe I don't understand and maybe I don't know everything there is to understand, but... it's always been my impression that you are just "super soft." I don't see anything wrong with that. In fact, I have a son that hubby and I have labeled that way. It certainly isn't derrogitory! He's always been sedentary, even in the womb! He's artistic and as artists go, he's emotionally sensitive, doesn't like to do manual work (only when there's no way out) and even walks a little funny. But then, so does his father. He's happily married with two sons. He's always liked girls but has never had any problem with hugging his male friends or his two brothers in public. He kisses his dad on the lips. I don't like that!! I don't know why, but it's my problem, not my son's.

Now then, on the hubby side of it, my husband loves his hair long; the longer the better. He says he loves to feel it bounce on his back when he walks. He also wears three earings; two in the left ear and one on the right. We went shopping over the weekend and we bought Caress Body Wash for the both of us! He normally buys Herbal Essence... probably waiting for that orgasmic experience... Wait a minute, that's supposed to be organic, isn't it? Either way... he uses "girly" toiletries. He loves the "girly" smell of them. He even uses the Caress body lotion. He likes for me to give him facials... in the places he doesn't have facial hair! LOL I've been married to the man for 27 years and as far as I know none of this has ever caused him any problems. He's been teased about it but he just smiles and agrees or says "Oh, well!"

Yeah... I guess I'm missing something...

Would it be too simplistic for me to say "Just enjoy your differences"?

<font color=blue>This above all: To thine own self be true. --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

[heatherm]

{{{{{{{{{Forgoten}}}}}}}}}}}

I went through the same thing with my 2 children. There was a time that I was going into a store with my oldest (Timmy) and my oldest brother was coming out of it. Timmy looked up at him and said "Hi Billy" and Billy looked at him like he was a wall...it literally broke my heart They were all ticked at me when Timmy's Dad and I split up....of course it didn't matter the marriage I was in was terrible...I was bringing shame to the family being divorced.

Then when I had the baby? .....oh my it was really bad. I wasn't married to the baby's Dad and the only one to this day that acknowledges him is my youngest brother. It is hard that's for sure especially where there are kids involved My Mom loved both of my boys and they made it so hard on her too cause she would talk about them all the time...even when she died, she was holding their picture (my sons) with her.

You just have to keep your head high and let your children know how much you love them. Kids know the difference and it is your family's loss by not treating them the way they should be.

Extra hugs to you hun {{{{{{{{{{{{{forgoten}}}}}}}}}}}} I understand your pain.


Heather

"The Pessimist complains about the wind, the Optimist expects it to change and the REALIST adjusts his sails." ~~~author unknown

[kvinneakt]

Sept, you have just about outlined my desired outcome. You and your family are good role models.

I bring my own stereotypes and prejudices to bear on my self-acceptance. I have been able to transcend them in dealing with other people for years, but getting passed them for myself is irrationally difficult.

My parents were, are, prejudiced people who are intolerant of differences. They are not overtly hateful, but a fag is a fag and a ****** is a ******, etc. They "accept" them now, in their mature years, so long as they stay in their own neighborhoods. I accept my parents as they are, relics of a dying culture. I bring this background, in my unconsciousness, to the table now. What I am going through would blow their minds to know the details.

Thank you for your inspiring reply. I know I will get to that point. My therapist said just go at it easy and it will come when the time is right.

Wherever you go, there you are

[USP45usp]

kvinneakt, don't sweat the small stuff, even family. My dad is like your parents and I told him that I was me, that I was his son, and what I did was mine to do. Of course we only "talk" every now and then, in writing only. But, I got over it, I have my own life to live. That's what everyone here should do, you are an individual, you are not "others" property, even if they "made" you.

Forgoten, same thing. If they only want to be in your life to hurt you, then don't allow them into your life. Get caller ID so they can't phone and tell them that your "space" (home, etc..) is off limits until they treat you as an individual with your own needs and wants.

It may seem hard to "disown" family or relatives but if they're not there to support you as yourself, you surely don't need them in your life to do harm.

USP45

[kvinneakt]

That's a tough one and you are right. If members of your family are damaging you, dump them! It seems so obvious when it applies to others, but not so when applied to yourself.

When I was a child my parents did things in "love" that left me reeling, still. Physical and psychological abuse that seemed to them the right way to bring up a child. They were deliberately cruel; I truly think they did the best they knew how.

Now, I can let them be. They are elderly and there is no way to really resolve anything. They have had one child die of anorexic suicide. They don't need to have any more assaults to their roles as parents.

Wherever you go, there you are

[forgoten]

Thank you!!!

(((((((((((((((To all)))))))))))))))) Take good care!

I'm just so tired of trying. I just want to shut my door on this world.

forgoten

[Sam]

Hi ya again Forgotten (me thinks you're not as forgotten as you thought),

I guess there's a black sheep in every family, but the amazing thing is, that is all decided upon opinions. Sweetie, everyone has an opinion, but, and here's the deal - a person's opinion only counts if you let it.

Personally speaking - I think you're a sweetie and think you have shown some very good qualities. Give yourself a hug, and start being real good to yourself. You deserve it, and I know for a fact - you've a lot of friends here that care about you. We believe you to be important.

Your friend Sam

[heidu]

It's tough sweetie, I know. Just hang in there and stay with us.
I think you have one of the kindest hearts.
Hugs
Heidu

The highest reward for a person's toil is not what they get for it, but what they become by it.
John Ruskin