Secondary Gains

at the risk of completely pissing people off or sounding absolutely crazy...

is there a part of you that doesn't want to get better? i know that my depression is awful and i hate it. but i'm kind of afraid to get better/be normal. with my debilitating depression, my parents place a lot less pressure on me and i get a lot of attention and care from them. while i desperately want to feel better, there's a tiny part of me that doesn't want to... i'm afraid of people (well, my family since i don't have people in my life) expecting more of me. and i'm afraid to be well enough to go out and do things because i'm not a huge fan of being around people. i can't really explain it, but as deep and dark as my depression is, there's a little little part of me that doesn't want to get better.

but these thoughts make me feel like my depression is completely illegitimate and that i'm using it as an excuse to not do things/be responsible. i guess i'm just really confused. but i know that i don't feel happy or excited when i have a good day and i don't know why that is and how to change my mindset to a normal one. i don't know... i feel like i'm not articulating this well. i'm just so confused. i hate feeling depressed but i'm also afraid to get better. it doesn't make sense. i feel so illegitimate. like a fraud.

i think with me, i've been dealing with things for so long, that if i was to suddenly get better and not have any mental illness at all, i wouldn't know what to do with myself.

i know that's strange... but i've been living with mental issues since 9, and living normally would be so hard to get used to

Shattered Sanity makes an important point. It is possible that this feeling of maybe not wanting to get better or fearing getting better is evidence the depression has progressed so far that you are losing a sense of what "normal/non-depressed" is. "Non-depressed" is becoming the unknown.

Personally, I feel almost entirely detached from my former, "normal" life.

I've found there's points in my depression (like now) when the thought of added stress on top of feeling the way I do makes me shudder. The thing with a recovery from depression: you don't feel as tired and overwhelmed. The pressures of daily life are not as bad as they seem when you are depressed. I used to work full time, have a social life, and still take time to myself. At this moment, any of that sounds overwhelming... once the depression gets better, it doesn't seem so scary to be living. I've been on both sides more than once. It doesn't make you a fraud, it's just that the level of depression is still pretty high. Right now, I can't picture a productive life for myself because I'm in the middle of this fog. If the fog we not around, I could probably do pretty well for myself (and have in the past). Three truck is to keep struggling till the fog lifts... (hugs) it's ok to feel like you are feeling.

shatteredsanity: yeah. i feel like my mental illness has gotten to the point where it defines who i am since it influences my actions and also affects how other people treat me. i can relate to not knowing what normal would feel like. i also feel like people will never think i'm normal or cured. even when things are going well, my family (myself included) is just waiting for the crash.

rohag: yeah, i haven't thought about it before... but i think the depression is deeply embedded in who i am and i don't know how to get rid of it... or maybe it's not about getting rid of it but moving forward with it. regardless, i feel like i have the wrong mindset in treatment (granted, my anxiety/depression are at the point where we're just dealing with symptoms, not the long-term "how is my life going to get better' issue)

thanks for this i think i'm feeling illegitimate because i feel like i'm kind of resisting the change... I've had a couple of good-ish/productive days but feel so depleted/drained and it's building up. so when i start getting out of bed and doing the things i need to do, i guess i don't want the people around me to think i'm better and raise their expectations because i'm still not ok. i'm coping but barely... and i think i'm a little afraid that more is going to be added/expectations will increase if people see i'm functioning again.

the part about not feeling as tired and as overwhelmed is really encouraging, especially since you've been on both sides (i probably have too. i just don't remember the other side right now). i guess i can kind of pinpoint the fear right now. i don't have the energy/strength to deal right now and i don't think i can handle anymore.

i'm kind of having an epiphany that the fear of getting better is also the depression in my head. so thanks for helping me with that

Glad I could help. Wish I could take credit for that advice, but I read it on here somewhere a while ago and it rang true. I can also relate to the bar being raised if you start to show any improvement. I've been through that a few time (mostly self-imposed, but also from others). It can really suck to find out that all the stuff you are suddenly supposed to be doing are just too overwhelming. I'm actually experiencing some of that right now. I had started to feel better and piled a lot of commitments onto my plate. Then I realized I had spread myself too thin, and now I need to figure out how to reign it all in. It's hard when I get the line "I know you're depressed and it's hard to do stuff, but I need you to help me do stuff" from my wife or my mom (we live with my mom atm)...
(aside: I'm actually really struggling with the notion of recovery and finding a life worth living should I recover. It's very weird to see myself say these things, and read it each time as if I had never heard it before... I may just keep reading this thread a few times over to help the message sink in).

I would not think of depression that way, I would be kinder to myself and think of it as a defense mechanism; it is helping you to cope! If you think about it, it is quite clever.

The problem with some defenses though is that they can't last forever because things are constantly changing. Castles were great until gunpowder was invented?

I would use your depression defense to help you with your other difficulties; it sounds like you have a pretty good list of what makes you anxious/uncomfortable? Being slowed down by the depression means you won't have to/be able to tackle huge chunks of problems all at once (which is a good thing!) but you should be able to plan smaller ways to gradually work on your anxiety problems. As your anxiety problems lessen, hopefully so will your need for the depression defense and it will lift too.

Do you see a therapist? If not, I would start there, with a single person outside of your family/household. I'd make myself a list of what frightens me, rank order it from least scary to most and see if I could think of ways to work on the "easier" difficulties I have.

With the depression, you are not going to let yourself do too much so you can relax a bit. Nothing "sudden" is going to happen! I remember when I realized I was so well defended, would "shut down" faster than the blink of the other person's eye, that I could try to do some scary things, knowing I was a good defender of myself if it got to be too much for me. Trust yourself, your unconscious! "You" are doing good things for yourself with your depression, not just "bad" ones!

mdnghtrain: yes! that's exactly what i mean. when i'm not feeling depressed and i dive into the "real world" (vs. my own little corner of the world) i get bogged down by the pressure and depressed again. i'm sorry that you're feeling this though i struggle with adding too much to my plate too when i think i'm better... when i come out of a depressive episode, i tend to think i'm invincible and/or want to makeup for lost time so i'll do like 2 internships, take 5 classes, sign up for 3 clubs... and then, obviously, get burnt out and depressed again. i can sympathize with the pressure you have from your wife and mom. luckily for me, i'm only accountable for myself and my parents are fairly understanding and supportive of my depression.

perna: i agree with you! my depression definitely seems secondary to the anxiety i've always had (my depression started much later, when i was 16). i've always been a little too ambitious for my own good (some of it was my fault, some of it was external pressure). the problem is-- when i get depressed and stay in bed/don't do stuff, tasks just pile up and it's all the more overwhelming to get up, face reality and start tackling them. i think the problem is that i just need to start. thanks for your advice/words of wisdom-- they're super helpful actually and a new lens of viewing my illness

I nearly broke down today because I realized I will always be mentally ill and I will always struggle and I will **** up others lives because I am ****ed up. I know what you mean though..if I didn't deal with all these things I don't know who I'd be. But that's just me being borderline..No idea who the **** I am.
I just want to be held..

I've felt that way for years. I don't think I would know what to do with happiness or joy. I wouldn't even know how to talk to people...I desperately depend on sarcasm and cynicism just to deal with the outside world. I want to get better because my life is horrible and I have nobody but myself to blame, but every time I start getting better, I sabotage myself.

This is an interesting question and I guess for me personally it depends on the degree of ‘getting better’.

When I am suffering from a nasty depressive bout I find it very very hard to meet other people’s expectations and as such I am grateful when others give me a fair bit of latitude.

On the flip side, when I’m having an ok day I can handle most of what is thrown at me.

What would scare me with getting better full stop would always be that fear that it’s going to come back… that the good will I’ve gained over the years would start from scratch and the many years of tearing my hair out because the pressure from others is constant and I just can’t muster the strength to respond to it.

Do I wish to be better? Of course I do… I know in my heart that I have intelligence and capability and that depression has held me back from many opportunities in life… like a bungee cord on the uplift.

I get what you mean. I think this sometimes as well and end up feeling guilty about it. I've had anxiety and depression for so long now that I can't imagine not having it at this point. I don't even know who I'd really be without my issues. It's a very weird feeling... like I obviously want to get better because these issues cause me so much pain and I just want to feel normal, but at the same time I am terrified of actually getting to a better point and I don't think I would be able to handle responsibilities and living a "normal" life.

You asked a question that had also been haunting me for a while but with a little twist to it. You said there is a tiny part of you that doesn't want to get better. For me the majority part (like 99%) doesn't want to get better..... I just don't want to.

Ironically, not too long ago, my therapist and I devoted an entire session to discussing my version of your question. But, thanks to your bringing it up and to everyone who replied, I have been doing some hard thinking. Perhaps it's time for me to re-visit the matter with my therapist. Maybe next time, I'll listen with more of an open mind.

It's so much easier to just give in to depression (and anything else) than to fight it.

thank you so much for your responses. it really makes me feel less alone/insane. i really, really appreciate it. and i'm really encouraged by what some of you had to say.

allie: i'm sorry about your breakdown and about the way you're feeling but yes-- that's the borderline. (and i can so relate to the just wanting to be held bit!)

oprmc: i can really relate to that. i self-sabotage too. it's almost like i'm afraid to get better because i'll lose who i was for the past 5 years. my illness has literally taken over my identity.

toejam: as much as i'm afraid of getting better and as much as i almost look for the depression when things are going well... it almost feels like a defense mechanism in a way since i feel like i believe it's never going to get better and the good days are just illusions. but i can relate to your sentiment about depression holding you back. i know that, for me, as comfortable (in some ways) as the depression is, it has really interfered with my life and i wish that i had never experienced it.

blossoms: that's EXACTLY what i'm feeling!!! you just articulated it so much better. i've always been anxious and depressed and i don't know who i'd be without it. everything would change... my relationships with people, my expectations of myself... it's really scary. in that sense, being depressed is comfortable or safe in a sense. and i'm protected against certain responsibilities and expectations because "oh hey, it's great you got a b because you were depressed!"

nija43: i'm glad you could relate to my question, it certainly makes me feel less alone. i agree with how it's so much easier to surrender to depression and kind of let go of really living and dealing with responsibilities. living as a healthy person is kind of scary, for me, after being sick for so long. i do hope you have that conversation with your therapist though... maybe you can get that 99% down to a 80%.