[PlanningtoLive]

I have a distinct problem, with my T. You all know that I consider him to be a friend, which enables me to talk to him about anything and everything. I know that he has a job to do, and that he is my therapist............but for the most part, I look at him as someone that I can confide in, that can help me deal and resolve issues.

What provoked this problem was actually Peanut's post about DBT - handout #9 I believe. A while back I had started digging into DBT and was angered beyond description to find out that my T was using these "techniques" on me. We discussed it and basically worked it out - meaning I shoved the problem to the back of my mind and didn't deal with it.

Then I saw this handout thing and went digging. (Nothing against you, Jill, honest xoxoxoxo). There I discovered all this other stuff, things that he and I had discussed.......phrases that I had thought were original from him, only to discover that they were connected with this type of therapy. So are weekly sessions and making yourself available 24/7 to your patients............I was so very hurt again and extremely angry.

Since I haven't really been on meds, my temper is not good. Today I had an appt. with him and told him straight out that I was angry with him........eventually we discussed why. In my mind, he is either my friend who cares and helps me solve things or he is Dr. ________, and I am the patient. If he is the "Dr.", then I am not able to discuss things with him.

I can't do it. I don't open up to people, esp. doctors. For the most part I dislike doctors immensely. Consequently I look at him as a friend. He claims that the two are together - because he cares, he wishes to help me.

The major issue here are his techniques. I hate reading about this stuff and then during a session, I know what he is going to say because I've read about it. And no, I can't stop digging into it - I've tried.

I fight him every inch of the way when he uses these techniques. I told him today no more stupid exercises, and that this DBT was a bunch of garbage. That I am NOT a text book case, and that he should simply talk to ME and not use a script.

Bottom line: I either have to accept these techniques and begin using them, or stop seeing him. Right now, neither is acceptable to me. I don't know what to do.

If I stop seeing him, I will die. There are no ifs, ands, or buts about it.............I will. He has been my lifeline and without his friendship/caring, I won't manage.

Logical question is why not just accept his techniques, right? If I do that, then he becomes one of "them" and I can't be as open with him. I will withdraw and "pretend" to do his exercises and get no benefit from them.

Is there some way to integrate the two? If there is, please let me know. Right now, I can't go back.............and that leads to what will happen. I can not deal with one more person I care about being gone. I don't know how to override it.

P.S. I do logically know he is a professional.........that this is his job. I guess I need to forget that in order to talk to him.

Thanks.

Mary Alice

[kittykat]

I must say, I find that pretty unsettling. I would think that I was being betrayed. I certainly would be angry about it. I have some hostile feelings about some of the Pprofessionals that I have met with, some not all. One therapist I had certainly was not DBT, whatever that is. (What is DBT?) He was an "upper." Nothing nonoriginal about him. I wish I could see him again, but I have moved away, to far to go back seeing him.

You know, I just don't know how anyone could advise you about this, except maybe another therapist. There are some good ones and some bad ones. You need to make that decision yourself, probably with the help of another therapist who could "help you see the trees and help you deal with the forest."

I really feel for you because I probably would have the same ambivalent feelings. I hope you get help soon. I wonder how therapeutic it is for you to have these ambivalent feelings. I have to trust my therapist. It seems to me, having this text book, nonoriginal practice, I would feel just like another number.

Hoping you will come out of this tangle soon and let us know.

Love

KK

[PlanningtoLive]

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{KK}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

[PlanningtoLive]

DBT is a form of therapy: dialectical behavioral therapy. It seems to be the one most widely used these days by therapists - they think it works the best with patients.

The worst part is I trust my life with this man..........and I hate that.

[dexter]

That is so hard PtE.

{{{{{planningtoexist}}}}}

I understand how you feel. it sounds like you don't have any doubts about liking him as a therapist it is just that these issues get in the way.

First i think the best thing you are doing is to talk to him directly about this. If there is anyway to "integrate the two" as you say hopefully he will be able to help you work through it. it doesn't sound like you want to change therapists, you do trust him and you do feel comfortable with him and i assume you think he is helping you.

i hope he can help you and i hope you can keep an open conversation about this with him. it may be most important for you to get past this with him right now, if that is the case make sure he knows that.

i think it is very good to think of him as a friend if that makes it easier to talk to him. try to remember that as a friend, he is doing what any good friend would do, and that is to help you as best he can. We are your friends and the best we can do is offer you our love and support and some suggestions and advice on occasion. But he, as your friend, has the advantage of his years of education, training, experience, and knowledge to bring to the table to help you. If he is bringing these dbt techniques to you it is because, as your friend, it is the best way he knows how to help. If he were to hold back on that, he wouldn't be doing his best to help you, and that would make him less of a friend.

on a more practical note, do you think it would help if he were more straightfoward about the sources of his treatment? Remember that even if he is using dbt techniques, he still sees you as an individual and it is not as if he was a robot reading off a script. i am sure he is bringing the techniques that he thinks will help you best. if he were to present that part of your sessions, spending time listening and talking to you and then saying "i think these dbt techniques might help you with this, so i suggest this and this and this" do you think that would make it easier or harder for you?

this is a complicated problem but i am sure you can work through it, and i hope this therapist is able to work with you to get past this.

-- The world is what we make of it --
-- Dave
-- <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.idexter.com>http://www.idexter.com</A>

[PlanningtoLive]

Dave, please call me Mary Alice...............

I like and trust him immensely, and yes it is these issues that get in the way.

He is the one that gave me the choice to make - he gets frustrated when we aren't moving forward and today seemed like going backwards to him. I do believe that he has helped me - he has given me many things to think about and has given things a new perspective at times.

We communicate quite a bit........usually by email almost everyday in between appts. or if I call him, he returns the call.

"If he is bringing these dbt techniques to you it is because, as your friend, it is the best way he knows how to help. If he were to hold back on that, he wouldn't be doing his best to help you, and that would make him less of a friend." Ironically enough, that is the same thing that he said to me today. I just wish I could look at it the same way.

I think your suggestion about being more upfront about what he is doing for part of the session and the other half listening to me, might very well be the answer I have been looking for, Dave.

If this works, and you are responsible for me being able to still see and work with him, I am going to send you a million cyber hugs and kisses.............you are awesome.

Thanks alot.

Mary Alice

P.S. I just sent him an email with your suggestion. I'm so excited now.......lol. ::::::::::::::giving Dave a hug:::::::::::::::::::::

[dexter]

I will take the hugs and kisses in advance... that way i can run off with them without giving you a refund if you change your mind

anyway i hope it helps. good luck. and i still think the best and most important thing is to keep talking to him about this until you find something that works.

best wishes

(ps you will have to remind me a few times to call you Mary Alice... bad memory for me, but i'll get it.)

-- The world is what we make of it --
-- Dave
-- <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.idexter.com>http://www.idexter.com</A>

[PlanningtoLive]

No problem with the hugs & kisses...........lol.

I hope it works too. For the most part we talk a great deal and communicate with each other - we've compromised on other issues and I think this would work for both of us.

I only have one week to get this resolved.....so I'm hoping.

I only made mention of the name so you don't think you have to be so formal - I'm only that way with some people .

Thanks again.

Mary Alice

[Rapunzel]

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Mary Alice}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

From what you have written in the past, I am fairly impressed with your T. It sounds like he genuinely cares about you a lot, and sincerely wants to help you.

I know that you want to feel like a unique person, and you are. That your T uses DBT with you does not change that. DBT is a good therapy, and he's using that because it has a better chance of working than if he were to try to "reinvent the wheel." He still acknowledges you as a unique person. In fact, there is no therapy that can be followed just like a script, including DBT. He still has to be flexible, and use it in a unique way, adapting it to your individual needs.

Dave's ideas are very good, and I second them. I sure hope that it works out for you.


<font color=orange>"Everyone has a need for significance; and if we can't make that possible, or even probable, in our society, then it will be obtained in destructive ways." -Rollo May</font color=orange>

[heatherm]

{{{{{{{{{{{{{Mary Alice}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Sending you lots of hugs.....and may I add sharing them with Dave too {{{{{{{{{{{{Dave}}}}}}}}}}}} What a wonderful way you are showing Mary Alice to work through this.


Heather

[PlanningtoLive]

Wendy,

I try and I try to get past my complete aversion to this therapy and I can't. I'm beginning to think that I will be alone soon and then what will I do?

I read the info about the techniques, etc. and there is just no way that I can do it. Very few things have made me dig in my heels like this................even thinking about 30 min. doing that stuff makes me angry, and not a little either.

When I have conflict with my T, it makes everything in my life seem 10 times harder and I just want to run - get into my car and keep driving and never come back. I had to have driven him crazy with all the emails late last night - not a good way to wake up in the morning with all that reading.

Help, Wendy.........

[PlanningtoLive]

{{{{{{{{{Heather}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

I have crashed with a vengenance today - enough so that I feel like I just want to run off a cliff.

Hope your day is going better. xoxoxoxxo

[Rapunzel]

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Mary Alice}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

There are plenty more hugs where that came from. I'm getting the impression that DBT is not specifically what you have an aversion to, but the idea that your T is using a technique that is written out and is used with other people, not just talking with you like a friend would, right? It wouldn't matter what the technique was, because the above would apply to any standardized technique?

If it is DBT itself what you don't like, then I would say to ask him to use something else instead, or find a different therapist who used a different method. But they all work from a theoretical foundation and use techniques that they and others have used before. The art is in choosing and modifying the techniques to fit and be appropriate for each individual client.

Maybe you would prefer a humanistic, or person-centered approach. Since that theory and technique gives the control to the client, and the therapist is there pretty much to give empathy, genuineness, and unconditional positive regard, it might feel less like a technique. I like some things about person-centered therapy, but the lack of structure can drive me nuts. I wind up sitting there trying to think of something to say, and I think that a lot of time is wasted without anything being accomplished. You might talk to your T about theoretical orientations and alternative techniques. He probably could change to something else, but has chosen DBT because it seems the most appropriate for you.


<font color=orange>"Everyone has a need for significance; and if we can't make that possible, or even probable, in our society, then it will be obtained in destructive ways." -Rollo May</font color=orange>

[Peanut61]

Hi ((((((((((((Mary Alice))))))))))))...

I am so super impressed with your having looked into the DBT therapy, even though I understand that you don't like the idea of it.

The thing is, it's more like new tools that your T is giving you to work with so the two of you can move forward, not really a 'technique' that he's using 'on you'. I would hate that too, believe me.

It's like = If your friend was coming to visit and their car broke down outside of your house. A good friend would share his tools with you in order to fix whatever on the car so that it could run that much better.

DBT is really just super-CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy) which is what those of us with anxiety have worked with to try to help deal with it.

The strategies suggested for therapists to utilize to facilitate the teaching of the new skills doesn't mean that they don't care = in fact, if he wasn't trying to impart the skillset/tools for you to use ALONG WITH you guys's therapy, he would be doing you a marked disservice and that's not what friends do right?

What is your impression of the concepts themselves, i.e., mindfulness, not personalizing or assuming, working on not having black and white thinking... learning these with the CBT have been my hardest challenge, but it's been helpful the more I practice it...

Again, I hope you're not mad at me, but I am very impressed and thrilled really that you are looking into some of this stuff = I so want you not to hurt so much all of the time, and to get some relief from your suffering.

Most fondly, Peanut

<font color=blue>HI FROM PEANUT</font color=blue>

[SeptemberMorn]

[Fuzzybear]

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Mary Alice}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Fuzzy xx

[PlanningtoLive]

That's basically it, I think Wendy. It doesn't feel "real", just surface cr*p, like I told my T.

He honestly believes that this therapy will work - he also told me that he couldn't and wouldn't want to, hide anything from me. Like he said, he never mentioned DBT to me or anything of what he was trying..........I investigated and discovered it for myself. He believes that I am "too intelligent" to try to cover things up with me - that I would see through him immediately.

All I know is that today my other pdoc came up with a new med - Depakote - and I'm taking 500mg per day for a week, then boosting it up to 750. The last few days have been so miserable and stressful for me............it really stretched my limits.

I called him today and said that he needed to "fix" things between us - he wouldn't budge though on his ultimatem: I either have to accept the idea of this stuff and try, or not see him anymore. He admitted that he is challenging me here, but he wants to help me. [sigh] I was in tears, so upset over the thought of not talking to him anymore, but I did tell him that I resented being forced into doing something I don't like.

[PlanningtoLive]

{{{{{{{{{{{{{Jill}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Thank you for the compliment. I have always researched things that affect me, from meds to therapy techniques. I dislike superficial talk and like directness and being kept in the loop.

I have read the concepts of mindfulness - my T had tried that one already, and I recognized it the moment he started - and it was not easy to simply acknowledge the feeling and then let it pass without doing anything about it.

Maybe my resistance will change based upon how my T presents this stuff to me. I asked him what book he was working from, this one from Marsha Linehan, and ordered it from the local library.

He wouldn't give me his copy; however, the library will get it in for me. Then I plan on reading every verse of it and know what is going on. Knowledge is power, and learning very important.

Again, thank you for the compliment. I would never be upset with you............it is because of YOU that I started checking into this stuff and discovered it. So I owe you a large thanks for bringing it to my attention.

xoxoxxoxox

[PlanningtoLive]

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Tomi, Fuzzy}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

two of the best people I know, thank you.