[hey_hey]

I think SeptMorn has raised a really good question. I would like to ask ya'll to contribute more of your views. I think giving more attention, and through discussion, if we happen to somehow find some clues or even answers, that would be really helpful to all of us in considering others' suggestions, so to make our days more bearable, and the depression less severe.

Your efforts are highly appreciated..

(((((((((((Group Hugs))))))))))))))

Best,
Toni

[i] What our mind can conceive and believe, it will achieve.

[Peanut61]

****Peanut trying to duck out of sight from embarrassment**** Umm, ((((((Toni))))), I'm not sure what the question is ***again, Peanut blushing in embarrassment***; would you restate it = I dropped a stitch somewhere along the line... XO,

<font color=blue>HI FROM PEANUT </font color=blue>

[heidu]

It is a good question. I have a couple theories.
1)
It's easier to sit in the muck than it is to stand up.
If your gonna stand up you have to fight to get yourself un-stuck.
You may even have to ask for help from someone you know or a stranger.
Once you get yourself out of it you still have to wash yourself off.
Then you have to find something clean to put on.
Once all that is done you have to present yourself back into the world.
There is a chance that someone will try to push you back into the muck or you might even fall in by yourself.
Then the negative thinking comes in. You have choices. Should you throw yourself back in it before someone else does?
Should you just try to go on.....but you'll fail...you did before.
Oh hell, why even bother getting up.

2)
Some people need more attention than others due to insecurity, lack of it as a child, there are many causes. When you are ok, or people think you are or even want to believe you are, they don't feel the need to constantly reassure you, they don't need to always be there.
So if you can remain sad, desperate, lonely etc. then you will hear the "poor baby" "poor you" that you need to make yourself feel better. It's just a temporary bandage but it works. When you need a refill all you have to do is cry again and someone will come and take notice.

Just my 2. I think the first is more common.
Heidu

Every path to a new understanding begins in confusion- Mason Cooley

[bptoo]

Don't feel alone Peanut, I'll help you look for that stitch...

sigh.

bp

I will sail my vessel,
Til the river runs dry,
Like a bird upon the wind,
These waters are my sky,
I'll never reach my destination,
If I never try,
So I will sail my vessel,
Til the river runs dry.

[Peanut61]

Thanks {{{{{{Bptoo}}}}} = Ok, I'm thinking that the question is: "Why is it so hard to re-parent and nurture our wounded inner child?" (Am I close, {{{{Tomi/Sept.}}}{{{Toni/Hey-hey}}}?? ****Peanut still wandering around all cornfuzzled (as Tomi would say)****...

<font color=blue>HI FROM PEANUT </font color=blue>

[Peanut61]

Really interesting observations, {{{{Heidu}}}... XO, Peanut

<font color=blue>HI FROM PEANUT </font color=blue>

[heidu]

Poor Peanut!! The $1000 question is:

Da tada DA!!!!!!!!!

When talking about making changes in your life that you know you should or need to ......why is it so easy to say but so hard to do.

Now you know!!!
Heidu

Every path to a new understanding begins in confusion- Mason Cooley

[hey_hey]

Hi Peanut,

Sorry, I should give everyone a preface about this thread.

<font color=blue>Under nowheretorun's topic “Avatars” under “ Depression” , SeptMorn has said something about saying and doing (pls see page 2 of it), her original was “So why is it so easy to say and so damnably hard to do???”… that made me begin to have some thoughts, then when I was reading Itlredvett’s posts under your topic “Itlredvett=How RU doing; Let us hear from you!!”, it trigger my further thoughts, I made a post about this question there… Sorry to make you guys to get back and forth to understand the source of this post. The basic idea is that we are hearing others’ advice as sounding very easy, but it’s actually very hard to do so… </font color=blue>

Thanks for the attention on this post… looking forward in hearing you


Best,
Toni

[i] What our mind can conceive and believe, it will achieve.

[Peanut61]

Hurray, I'm back in step, (well, as much as I ever am anyway = lol) = Thank you {{{{{{{{Heidu & Toni}}}}}}!!! Warmly, Peanut

<font color=blue>HI FROM PEANUT </font color=blue>

[Peanut61]

The word that keeps coming to my mind when thinking about the question posed is: Inertia. Bodies at rest tend to stay at rest, and I think often that's what our resistence to taking positive steps to change, actual concrete steps, is that = tis often easier not too, plus, as Dr. Phil would say, (***Peanut has a 1/2 tongue in cheek because is 'on the fence' when it comes to his advice***), we must be getting some kind of 'payoff' for not changing. Just some thoughts...

<font color=blue>HI FROM PEANUT </font color=blue>

[heidu]

Good, your still here today. I thought maybe you went to bed or had something to do and that would leave all these people running around dying of curiosity.
Of course a naughty part of me found that amusing.
Heidu

Every path to a new understanding begins in confusion- Mason Cooley

[hey_hey]

Your first theory just caught it so accurately... Thanks for sharing.

It's almost 9pm here, I get to run home. Catch you guys up tomorrow morning.. Wow, that will be a lot to catch up, since most of ya'll are starting the day...

Anyway, Hey, everyone... Have a nice day... ok?

(((((((((((Hugs for Everyone))))))))))))))

Best,
Toni

[i] What our mind can conceive and believe, it will achieve.

[heatherm]

Bingo Jill! That's it to me exactly I have a hard time sitting on his fence cause I find his approach works for me I think I would just sit on his fence and stare at him in awe

I feel that you have to "want" to change compared to "talking" about the change you need to make. If you truly want to take charge of yourself...you need to grab the bull by the horns and go for it. The strength to do it has to come from within yourself. This has nothing to do with wallowing in self pity but of not seeing the light. Myself...hitting a wall (not physically ) was what took me to make changes with myself. I was sick and tired of being sick and tired and what I was doing was not working for me anymore ( Dr Phil pops in my mind again)


Heather

[heidu]

Makes total sense Peanut. Your a smart girl!!
Heidu

Every path to a new understanding begins in confusion- Mason Cooley

[heatherm]

{{{{{{Toni}}}}}}

I almost forgot to thank you for starting a great thread

Hope you are having a great day!


Heather

[Rapunzel]

Why does it sound easy to follow the advice we are given (or even that we give ourselves), but it is so hard to do?

Tons of books have been written on this topic. Why do people read all those self-help books and keep persisting in all the same things they have been doing, and not making real change for the better after finding answers that would probably work?

Inertia is a big part of it. We have an established pattern for how we live our lives and how we deal with problems and what we do in certain situations. It's so much easier to just react automatically and do what we have always done.

There are other factors too, many of the same ones that got us where we are in the first place. Maybe we sabotage ourselves because deep down we feel like we deserve to suffer or someone else might not like it if we suceeded in life or other such stuff.

And change is scary. Change will bring new problems along with it. Do we have enough confidence to be willing to face the problems that will come? One way to combat this is to realize that we are always going to have obstacles and problems, but we get to choose the problems if we are actively making choices to change our lives, so those problems will probably be worth it as opposed to the general junk that is going to get thrown at us anyway if we don't change.

And there probably is some payoff for doing what we have always done. Is it really worth it though?

Just a few thoughts,
Wendy

<font color=blue>Life is filled with tragedy; if you let it overwhelm you, you cannot enjoy life's innocent pleasures. -Robert Heinlein</font color=blue>

[ltlredvett]

Well since I recognize that I am perhaps the master of giving advice yet can't follow my own... I thought I would chime in here. In my case I think that Rapunzel hit the nail on the head. I think for me, based on conversations with my counselor, I do not take action because I feel I need to suffer. I carry the guilt of my divorce and for other terrible decisions that I have made. I have not been able to look forward because I am too busy looking back.

For me my life has changed so incredibly because of stupid decisions. I keep thinking over and over, IF I wouldn't have done this, or if I would of done that then things would be better for me.

I think the other thing going on is that depression robs you of the energy required to take affirmative action. I know for me at times it has been difficult even to do the simplest of tasks. Intellectually I know what needs to be done, I just can not bring myself to do it.

I also feel that Rapunzel's comment on intertia is very valid. I know for me that I have gotten into a habit of getting by day by day and not looking into the future. It takes a GREAT DEAL of effort and energy and positive attitude to overcome this inertia. I have been much better at this the last week..... cutting back on smoking, exercising, taking meds.... sleeping right, keeping the house neat... little things that are helping me to overcome the inertia.

Sometimes I think posting on this board is a mixed blessing for me. On the one hand it has offered support and advice that I need, and the people have all been wonderful. On the other hand, I am beginning to feel that it is an escape. An escape from me doing the things that I need to get done.

I will try and waen off the board little by little, but I will not go away.

[LMo]

Hey Ltlredvett:
It sounds like you have made a TON of progress since you first started on the board. It takes a strong man to acknowledge his weaknesses. It sounds as though you have found a super therapist and I have a lot of confidence that you are going to be A-OK.

I can relate to your comments on the escape part of it, too. When my boyfriend was in his lowest periods (which he is not right now), I was absolutely addicted to a couple of depression forums. It felt like I was doing SOMETHING during a time when it felt impossible to accomplish anything. It was very frustrating and stressful to see him lay in bed crying day after day, and there didn't seem to be any way to help him. So I turned to these forums. My therapist actually told me to stay off them, but they were an outlet that helped me in a way that nothing could. It's hard when you can't really discuss a situation like this with your friends or family, but since it's on your mind 24 hours/day, for some of us, it's critical to talk to SOMEONE who understands (better yet that it's free!)

Thanks for the update, LTLREDVETT

[ltlredvett]

LMO....

I was very fortunate to have found a super therapist. She is very direct and has put things in a perpsective for me like no one else has ever done. She has a way of "cutting to the chase" and putting it together so that it all makes sense. I feel so very lucky to have found her.

She also told me to stay off the boards, especially when I am at work. And, I am planning on decreasing my time... but for now, when I am feeling out of sorts it is a safe place I can express my feelings.

I am feeling pretty good about the positive steps I am taking. The toughest part is that I miss my ex girlfriend and think of her every day. At some point I would hope that she would recognize the "real me" and let me into her life again, even as a friend. But, I can not obssess about that at this point. For now, my priority is me.

At times I admit I lose my focus. I just miss her so much. Don't know how to stop those feelings.

[Justhere]

Have any of you ever read the book "Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda"? by Dr. Arthur Freeman and Rose DeWolf? I don't usually do endorsements, but I was soooo stuck when I first came here a few weeks ago, always thinking in terms of the past, not being able to sleep because I kept ruminating over past decisions etc. I picked up this book of the shelf, (I remember buying it on sale but not really reading it) and started reading. By 5 am I was half way through. It made so much sense. I can stay stuck with my wrong decisions, others mistakes and regret forever, or make an effort to put it aside and go for TODAY! This is silly...it said to think of one positive thing I could do the next day...and I had such a hard time thinking of anything, (it took me two days!) The only thought I could find, was tomorrow I am going to go out and pick some flowers and bring them into the house. Sounds silly now, but it was the only thing I could think of, (wallowing in my negativity and all), by the time that next day came, I drove my hubby to work, went shopping for 3 hours just to get myself out of the house I was trapped in, ended up buying him some flowers and took them to him at work. It sounds so bizarre, but that little bit of effort on my part to actually DO something started a change in my outlook. Now I try and think even plan (gasp!) how and what I can do tomorrow so that the past doesn't come creeping back in and bite me on the butt!
I thought I was toast there, even had the old pills out counting them one night I felt so desparate, wishing I would get West Nile...yada, yada. Funny how one small amount of effort to make a change on my part seems to have started me back on the road to "My Life, the Future" and helped me get out of the muck of the past. Don't get me wrong, I have along way to go and refer to this book often, especially in the middle of the night when I am awake and the world is asleep. 8o)

Just a thought, a longgggg one!

J

[Peanut61]

What a neat thing, ((((Justthere)))), and good for you, because it was you that took those initial steps that have been so positive..WELL DONE!! One positive thing a day, hmmm **Peanut scratching head, thinking** Warmest regards.

<font color=blue>HI FROM PEANUT </font color=blue>

[hey_hey]

Hi J,

That's a really great sharing, thank you so much. The reasoning in your words are so simple yet profound. It's so necessary to acknowledge of keeping positivity in every single minute of day to day life. For depressive people like me, every minute was a struggle, I couldn't think about any longer term plan or whatsoever, life goals? shoot, if my thought didn't run on suicide, then I was lucky enough.... So, as you implied, when we do every mintute well enough, the overall positivity will accumulate to a certainly amount, then quantity gathering will transform to a quality changing. That maybe means we have a chance to get over depression, and a chance for a new life, and more...........

Thanks again, J........

Best,
Toni

[i] What our mind can conceive and believe, it will achieve.

[SeptemberMorn]

Ok... I've held off posting because I wanted to read several people's impression on my question. I've read through this thread and find that I have done most everything suggested.

My problem may well be inertia... a small part, though. I just read my former therapist's report to SSI that mentions I'm "well entrenched in my thoughts of entitlement." Whoa, Nellie! I don't believe that for a minute! I don't believe the government owes me anything I haven't worked for! Yes, I've filed for disability, but not because I feel entitled. As a matter of fact, it was my former therapist's idea that I file! I do want to be self-sufficient, contrary to what her report says. It's taken me a few years to realize it but now I know there are several things I can do to make extra money. My problem is... I don't do them!! Honestly, I don't sit around feeling sorry for myself because I can't buy something extra that I want. Most of the time, I don't feel worthless, even when one or two of my kids tries to make feel that way. The way I figure it, it's because I've changed and they either don't know what to make of it, or they're fighting it. Oh, well!! That's they're problem!

What really pisses me off at myself is that I love to do the things that I could make some money at. What stops me is fear of approaching anyone about it. Fear of rejection. Feelings of inadiquacy. Then the old "mother" tapes start playing: "You're too dumb, you don't know how to do that. You can do better than that! There's not enough money in that. You're too old to start something new. You should have..." See what I mean? Mixed messages that just serve to confuse me and keep me at a standstill. I feel like shouting "Somebody show me the door!" but I know I need to find it for myself. **Reference "Recuring Nightmare" in CC. No doubt, I've gone past it several times and just didn't want to see it.

Oye Vey!!!!!!

<font color=blue>This above all: To thine own self be true. --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

[hey_hey]

Hi SeptMorn,

I know what you feel with THAT THING in your last paragraph. I also ponder about it, why must we need others' assurance to our own intentions or behaviors, especially from the elder ones. I mean I do appreciate that they always contribute their precious life experiences and insights. But why do they always expect the youngers to go the way they want us to, or follow their path or life patterns? Of course I've never been a parent yet, so I'm very likely to be very wrong on this. Is it a way of showing parental love? I have to admit that my parents are pretty good on this, they've never forced me of such things like these, and they are very supportive and understanding, no complaints. But sometimes my dad would talk about his assumption over my future, which of course doesn't always match my plans or progress. And he gives off this energy which makes me feel whatever I gained was never enough, they are not appreciated, it's feels like there is always several inches for me to reach his standred. And this is just so disencouraging... ....

Well, I think I'm probably going too far beyond what this topic is about... Sorry. Just a thought...

Hey, thanks for your awesome originality of this topic... Did I say that you are great?

Best,
Toni

[i] What our mind can conceive and believe, it will achieve.

[Rapunzel]

I'm thinking about perfectionism today. It was Mary Alice's post that got me thinking about it and I'm not going to repeat what I replied to her, so make sure to read the other thread (the one asking how her T appointment went). I think it applies here too. We want to be perfect and we have such high expectations of ourselves that it is paralyzing. You might not think it's perfectionism when you can't even take the first step, but there you go - we don't even try because it won't be perfect or because we aren't even doing the things right yet that we are already trying to do, so what's the point in trying something else? I know I do that all the time. The thing about perfectionism is that we can fight it once we recognize it. We have to give ourselves permission not to demand the impossible from ourselves; to be satisfied with something, as something is better than nothing, even if it is just one little step towards our goals.

Toni, you're right - this has been a great topic and it made me think. And I think your comments were right on target too.

Wendy

<font color=blue>Life is filled with tragedy; if you let it overwhelm you, you cannot enjoy life's innocent pleasures. -Robert Heinlein</font color=blue>