[peaches100]

My t used that phrase when we were talking about what she felt was my excessive need for email replies from her (typically, 2 or 3 per week). I've been in therapy with her for several years now, and acknowledge that perhaps i should be farther "down the road" than i am, and able to incorporate that feeling of connectedness with her when I'm not with her. However, unfortunately, I still struggle alot with it. Some part of me needs to have regular email correspondence with my t. When my t doesn't reply in a timely way, or replies saying "I'm too busy to address your concern now," this part of me feel incredibly hurt and abandoned. It doesn't happen often, but when it does, it always triggers me into a spiral.

Now, the logical adult side of me understands that sometimes people get busy and can't respond when we want them to. But i feel certain that it is dissociative child parts of me that get triggered into feeling abandoned. When my t talked to me about how infants need that sort of 24/7 care, but that "you're an adult and i need to treat you like an adult," those child parts of me felt devastated. It has taken literally "years" to get to a point where i could be open and vulnerable enough to let that hurt child part of me show up, and express her needs. And now, it sounded like she was telling me that i shouldn't be that way because i'm an adult.

So anyway. . .my t and I have talked 3-4 times about this now, and I am still having alot of problems understanding it. She now says that she wasn't discouraging me from having child parts or saying they should be adults. But it certainly sounded that way to me. What else "could" she have meant by saying that? Since then, i just feel depressed, like it's not OK to be the way i am. I mean, i already felt very ashamed of the side of me that i knew wasn't like a normal strong adult. But now, i feel even more ashamed, and sorry i ever let go of my hold on that part of me or let her be seen or ask for what she needed from my t.

Lately, i've done my best to push those child parts of me out of my awareness, and did it for about 1 month. I honestly felt like i was doing well, feeling strong, no sense of pain. But over the weekend, something triggered me and i just started crying and couldn't stop. I didn't' even know why i was crying. I thought i was fine and didn't see it coming at all. I'm thinking maybe it was coming from the part of me that i've been trying to ignore. . .this child part . . .in favor of being the adult that i need to be. I guess it isn't working so well after all.

I don't know what to do. My t says that we can talk about it again on my session this week, and she will try to help me understand. But all i can think of is that she is telling me that this child side of me is weird and wrong, and i shouldn't be like that, or need what a child would need. The only way i can get rid of feeling that child part or her needs, is to try to get rid of her.

I understand that the goal of therapy is to grow up those parts of us that feel like hurt children, but all that discussion about infant needs versus adult needs, and how i need to be an adult. . .left me feeling ashamed and wrong for being this way. I don't know how to change the way i feel or what i need.

[peaches100]

The confusing thing is that my t has, from the start, known that i have dissociated child aspects. She has always tried to encourage me to let that part of me show, so we could work with it and heal the wounds. So it came as a surprise when she told me how basically (without saying the exact words), i shouldn't have the needs of a child since I'm an adult. It made me feel almost tricked or betrayed, in that she seemed to invite this side of me to relate with her, only to then start telling me she was too busy to always respond, and discourage my strong needs. She's worked with me on coping skills, which i use alot, although she doesn't seem to think i do it enough. Maybe the problem is that i just can't find the balance, and it is painful and humiliating for me to ask or show what i need, only to find out i shouldn't need it. Since i can't find the balance, it seems best to just try to rid myself of this child part that causes so much turmoil. But when i try to ignore it, it ends up grabbing my attention anyway, such as by breaking down in gut wrenching sobs for no reason.

[amandalouise]

peaches - something that may help you...

one time I wanted my therapist the email with me. I asked her. she told me "let me think about it" for weeks after that I worried and worried and thought whats there to think about every one emails.

then one day I got the nerve up to ask the therapist again. she was quiet for a few moments and then said "

why do you want me to email you? lately Ive gotten so many requests for emailing and dont understand it. is this a fad or what with clients LOL"

I laughed and said maybe. I want email option with you because I need you, the others inside need you, I want to be able to write to you any time. Sometimes I have problems in the night and need you. and yea I want to email with you cause every one else is doing it too. LOL"

she thanked me for being honest and told me - no emailing. she had taken my question on that previos day and talked it over with the staff and suppervisor. the outcome was emailing has no guarentee for confidentiality. she explained the privacy laws we now have in the USA. if we used emil anything can happen.. the email host yahoo, aol, g.mail... they could have a glitch where her emails to me and my emials to her could end up in the inbox of any and all people that have emails that contain any variation of our emial addresses.. she illustrated this.

say my emial is abcedf@ yahoo.com
and hers is ghijkl@ aol.com

I write an email. the computers read the addresses and send my email off to her at ghijkl@ yahoo.com and accidentally send my email to her to lkjihg@ yahoo, kljihg@ yahoo.com and so on.

on top of that email servers are known for accidentally sending peoples emails off to others on their contact list.. what if my emial to her goes off to my mother and other relatives friends and co workers.. was I comfortable having everyone on my email contact list recieving an email containing the things we talk about?

I told her heck no LOL

then she told me I am an adult and need to be treated like an adult..at first I got highly offended and told her yea at the moment Im an adult and want to be treated like an adult.

She said she was sorry she didnt mean it in the mental sense. everyone feels like a child at some point regardless of having DID or not. Im talking in the physical sense..

look at you. you are in an adult body. regardless of which mind set a person over 18 is, physically they are in an adult body.

because you have an adult body I have to treat you like an adult. all adults regardless of mindset love having contact with those they like, they like getting on the phone and talking, meeting and doing things together, writing to each other.

but the defining thing between children and adults is adults know how to do things for their self and are capable of doing things for their self. adults know how to use things they like and feel comfortable with at times when they are alone and have a problem. its called self nurturing. here right now lets make a list of things you can do when you cant have me. we can include all kinds of things even things that will help when you feel like a child or the child parts of you are out. and each therapy session we will add one more thing to this list..

(that self nurturing list is now in the 500 items long range. for a long time we would end my sesssions with writing something I could do that night and through out that week when missing and wanting my therapist.)

During that conversation my therapist also told me even though we cant email each other because of confidentiality laws conflict with the vary nature of what emailing is we could still write to each other.

she pulled out a note book and wrote me a note. then told me throughout the week read her note when ever I need her and want to email her. and write back to her in this notebook. this notebook was our "emailing" account and space.

we have gone through many paper and spiral bound notebooks "emailing".

she now has a notebook for all her clients and a "emailing" notebook on the stand and an "email inbox" we clients write our "emails" and drop them in the box. she also has her clients design a small inbox of their own not using their names. we all know which box we made on that shelf. then she does her "emailing" back to us by writing something (not every time mind you shes a busy lady) and puts her emails to us in our inbox on her shelf.

when we go in to her room we check our emails and email her back.

Sometimes during my sessions I check my "email inbox" and sometimes i dont. its not manditory.

sometimes I write my "email" back to her right then sometimes I write it at home and later bring it in and drop it in.

this morning she told me this emailing with the therapist is taking the office by storm. and if this keeps up theres talk at the staff meetings of converting a small room into a "post office" where we can write and receive emails complete with little tiny post office like lockers for out inboxes each of us would sign out a post office box and recieve the matching key. only the therapist that belongs with that client would have the keys to each of her clients inboxes so she can send emails and make new keys at a small price of a dollar or so should the client loose their key.

I told her I love that idea. I dont know if they actually plan to take this emailing between therapists and clients that far but it would be so cool if they did.

so all said and done thats how my therapist and I resolved this emailing issue and my being an adult so have to be treated like one. just an idea ..that may work for you and your therapist.

[Wysteria]

Originally Posted by peaches100

The confusing thing is that my t has, from the start, known that i have dissociated child aspects. She has always tried to encourage me to let that part of me show, so we could work with it and heal the wounds. So it came as a surprise when she told me how basically (without saying the exact words), i shouldn't have the needs of a child since I'm an adult. It made me feel almost tricked or betrayed, in that she seemed to invite this side of me to relate with her, only to then start telling me she was too busy to always respond, and discourage my strong needs. She's worked with me on coping skills, which i use alot, although she doesn't seem to think i do it enough. Maybe the problem is that i just can't find the balance, and it is painful and humiliating for me to ask or show what i need, only to find out i shouldn't need it. Since i can't find the balance, it seems best to just try to rid myself of this child part that causes so much turmoil. But when i try to ignore it, it ends up grabbing my attention anyway, such as by breaking down in gut wrenching sobs for no reason.

Hi Peaches...

I hope you don't mind my answering your post here...but there were a few things that I felt and "heard" in your post that struck me. I think that it is wise for your therapist to primarily work with your adult parts because that is what needs to be strengthened for you to function well in your adult world....and the fact that she sometimes needs to set boundaries as to what she can and cannot do is not necessarily a reflection on her views of your child like part's needs. The fact that you take these as rejection and abandonment simply highlights the needs of your inner child that need to be nurtured and honoured not only by her, but by you and your adult parts as well.

This is extrememly hard for me to do, and I imagine for you as well. Perhaps you don't just need coping skills but loving skills for those child like parts are needed to help her feel honoured and cherished when your T is just not able. Even as a mother, there are times I CANNOT immediately respond to my children's needs, but I can still honour them and let them know they will be met as soon as possible. And then do it. Perhaps you can help send those messages to your child parts and your T can learn to help you back those messages up so that she feels truly safe and not rejected nor shamed and invalidated. Being invalidated is really a ****** feeling. Maybe that is where some of those tears come from...

I also noticed the word "should" a lot. This is a big shaming word. I hear you shaming yourself and your child a lot in your note. Again I feel like the answer is not the shame but the validation, the cherishing and the patience that she really needs to hear from you; not even your T. I shame myself a lot too, and it is so very destructive.

There is a lady named Brene Brown that did a video on Ted.com and has 2-3 books out on the gifts of shame and what will come from learning to live beyond it and through it. I think you might really relate to her work...I think your child parts will love it. She is very easy to listen to and kind of funny and truly inspiring.

I hope I have not offended...these were just some thoughts that came forward from my heart from reading your posts. If you don't relate..just throw them out.. I wish you only hope in your healing and peace for your child parts..they sound very precious indeed.

Respectfully,

Wysteria Blue

Good post Wisteria! I had the same feeling reading Peaches post. There feels like there's judgement and invalidation thrown in.
Peaches I hope you don't mind my two cents. I guess you need to do what feel right for you.

[peaches100]

Hi Amandalouise,

Thank you for pointing out the lack of confidentiality/security with email. I have known it wasn't secure, but have "taken my chances," so to speak, hoping no one would inadvertently read them. I've been feeling lately that perhaps i need to be more careful in this regard. I have divulged things in email that would cause great embarrassment if it were to become known by others. I need to remember that while it may feel secure and anonymous, it really isn't.

I love what your t has done in setting up individual mail boxes for private correspondence between t and client. I would very much like an opportunity like that! I don't think my t would do it though. She has said she often doesn't have the time to reply to my email. I figure that if she can't take time to type a short response, then handwriting one would take even more time. I think it's very cool that your t is willing and able to take that kind of time to ensure that her clients can communicate with her privately and confidentially.

I had the thought while i was reading your post that maybe i don't always know the difference between an "adult" need and a "child" need. For example, I often feel like i want my t to sit next to me and/or hold my hand for a minute or two. I've assumed that this a child need? But maybe not? As an adult, I have alot of fear of intimacy and closeness with others, so could it be an adult need, in that i am trying to bond in an adult way also, and not just in a child way? I dunno. I've rarely ever asked my t to actually do those things, though, as i feel that maybe it is wrong since I'm an adult? What do you think? Is wanting a measure of closeness or physical comfort when you're in pain an adult need or a child need?

[peaches100]

Hi Wysteria,

Of course i don't mind you sharing your thoughts/impressions with me. You are right about the "shaming" part. I do have a very hard time accepting that i have this needy child side of me. I honestly didn't know i did have a part like that until a few years ago after i had a serious clinical depression. After that, it just seemed to appear, and it carries a ton of pain.

While my t has encouraged me to be inquisitive and kind toward this hurt child part of me, I find that when I (adult me) try to open up to it, i soon become filled with intense, painful emotions that are nearly beyond my ability (adult me) to tolerate. So rather than being very effective in being able to help/nurture/rescue my child part, i end up wanting to run away from it because i feel very overwhelmed by it. Most of the time, i am not too aware of it and sort of numb to it. But when i try to lean in closer to observe or listen, or open up in any way to it, it's like a destructive wave of pain. Honestly, at times when i've got in touch with this child side of me's pain, it has caused crying jags that leave me dazed and exhausted, sometimes for 1-2 days afterward. The odd thing is, i usually don't know why i am crying so hard, or what the pain is about. I don't often see it coming either. I can be feeling all adult and strong and not the least bit childish or needy, and then BAM!! something happens to trigger me and i'm a mess.

This happened last Saturday when i was attending a Bible talk. It happened to be about the subject "Are You Personally Important to God?" When the speaker started talking about how some of us have had bad things happen to us in the past, hurts and losses, and how they can make us feel unworthy and hate ourselves, etc., i started crying and could not stop at all through the entire 30-minute talk. I don't know why it happened. It just came in a huge rush. I was so afraid that others would notice and ask me afterward what was wrong. Thankfully they didn't. Because i don't know what i would have told them.

My guess is that, at my core, i feel worthless and unimportant. Well, i know i do. But i'm usually not in touch with those feelings. I think of them as coming from my child side.

The reason why i have trouble with accepting this part of me is because it is so "not" like an adult! When i get triggered into that mode (it usually only happens if something triggers me, like that talk). . .I feel every bit like a small, hurting, desolate, abandoned little girl. Sometimes i even think that i get a sense of an infant, where the pain is the type that comes on so strong that you cry so hard you can't get a breath. . .but are unable to speak or formulate what it is you are grieving about.

I try desperately not to let anybody see me in a moment like that. I have a thing about being competent and capable on the outside, and not seeming like i have any problems or need anybody. But with my t, i've always hoped that i could show that side of me, and get help for it. It hurt me to show that part of me and then get told that i'm an adult and need to be treated like one. It felt to me as if she had been coaxing it out with kind words and acceptance, only to tell me that i should not be that way. So it just reinforced my feeling that it was already bad and embarrassing and wrong.

But. . .i think i get what you are telling me. . .that maybe she wasn't discounting the child part of me. . . just saying that since i am physically an adult, we have to find some adult way to help that child part. Or maybe saying that the child needs are OK, but she can't always meet them. I dunno. I'm still trying to wrap my head around it.

I have practiced quite a bit with self-soothing, and find that where i used to stink at it, i can sometimes soothe a hurting child part. It depends, though, on how strong the trigger is, and how strong the pain coming from that part is. Too much. . .and it shuts me (adult me) down. I really honestly do not think that i am sitting on my laurels just wanting my t to nurture and take care of my hurt child parts. But i feel that my own efforts do not always satisfy the needs, or calm the pain. The thought of being soothed by her is much more comforting. Maybe also there is a part of me that thinks, "As a child, i had to face all kinds of pain and problems alone without any comfort. . .why do i have to do the same again now? Why is it wrong to want my t to comfort me?" I don't want to have to face all that old pain alone. I guess i don't always understand what kind of help or soothing is OK to get from my t, and what has to come from inside me. I also don't know why the hurt child part wants comfort from t and not from me.

Thanks for the book and video recommendation. I'll look into that!

[Wysteria]

Dear Peaches,

I can relate to so much of what you are saying...I often feel so worthless and find it so very, very hard to nurture my own inner child. I didn't even know what I looked like when I was little until very, very recently. I have someone that helps me take care of my child part and she feels very safe staying with that person. I do other things to work on learning how to nurture children in general and from those experiences try to translate to learning how to nurture/protect and soothe my own.

I too am normally considered competent at least until recently and am very independent. I think in terms of boundaries and roles, you may just have to get a little blunt and ask for clarification from your T and also let her know a little more clearly if you can what you might be needing or wanting and how you can signal her when you need it. Please try to be sure that your expectations are in line with what she can honestly meet so that you don't continue to want for what she is just unable to give or find someone else in your support system that can...

My own relationship with T seems to morph a little and I'm beginning to let him closer and allow him to care about me more and tell him what I need and that I appreciate him as well. I finally even asked permission to hold his finger occassionally to ground and for connection when I need it, with specific conditions attached to it, which he met, which surprised me. The other day when I was really, really distraught, I even just went and sat on the floor near him when he rebuked me for not allowing him in. That was really hard for me, but helped us to connect a bit. He then freaked me out by sitting on the floor across from me to talk to me... Normally, we have pretty good professional boundaries as I can be pretty skittish and he's very professional. You just sometimes never know with them. But you sound like you have a therapist that has reached out to you and is very supportive and is trying very hard to help you to grow and respect and honour both parts of you. But they always want to see you trying to do your part to heal yourself as well.

Perhaps if you take the lead at self-soothing and get help from her with self-soothing techniques, she will be much more open to backing you up and supporting you and your child parts if she sees you trying first. Maybe you can ask for help with some imaging of your child parts or inner child to help you in making a better connection to her.

Maybe also finding an image of a protective angel or protector for your child will help you feel like you are not so alone in trying to help her. I have one for mine...I have a whole album of angel images on my profile if you would like to look through them and see if any resonate for you...I will friend you so you are able to view them...there are so many images out there..I'm sure you can find a guardian for her that will help you when you are feeling at a loss with your child part...

In terms of the overwhelming emotions that you get from your child, I wouldn't be surprised that you find that some of those unmet needs in your child are still unmet today. Your T may be trying to help you get some of those connection needs met as an adult so that the adult can show the child what if can feel like to feel cherished and soothed and worthy and can lead by example...

I can see that you are trying very, very hard and I honour and encourage your efforts and wisdom and self-insight! Perhaps a little more patience with yourself and rewards for your hard work are in order! You have such a big heart and can obviously feel so much...but remember your capacity for pain may also equal your capacity for joy and contentment. What a wonderful image to hold on to when you are feeling blue or frustrated with yourself....

Safe hugs and best wishes for continued honesty and connection from within and without...I hope my words and ideas do not make anything worse or hurt in any way...They are meant with the best of intentions..

Wysteria Blue

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by peaches100

Hi Amandalouise,

Thank you for pointing out the lack of confidentiality/security with email. I have known it wasn't secure, but have "taken my chances," so to speak, hoping no one would inadvertently read them. I've been feeling lately that perhaps i need to be more careful in this regard. I have divulged things in email that would cause great embarrassment if it were to become known by others. I need to remember that while it may feel secure and anonymous, it really isn't.

I love what your t has done in setting up individual mail boxes for private correspondence between t and client. I would very much like an opportunity like that! I don't think my t would do it though. She has said she often doesn't have the time to reply to my email. I figure that if she can't take time to type a short response, then handwriting one would take even more time. I think it's very cool that your t is willing and able to take that kind of time to ensure that her clients can communicate with her privately and confidentially.

I had the thought while i was reading your post that maybe i don't always know the difference between an "adult" need and a "child" need. For example, I often feel like i want my t to sit next to me and/or hold my hand for a minute or two. I've assumed that this a child need? But maybe not? As an adult, I have alot of fear of intimacy and closeness with others, so could it be an adult need, in that i am trying to bond in an adult way also, and not just in a child way? I dunno. I've rarely ever asked my t to actually do those things, though, as i feel that maybe it is wrong since I'm an adult? What do you think? Is wanting a measure of closeness or physical comfort when you're in pain an adult need or a child need?

needing closeness with a therapist is both a childs need and an adult need. many times I have while being in my adult state of mind, asked my therapist to sit closer, taken my therapists hand, needed to be held while Im feeling sad, upset, unhappy. my child parts when they were separate from me actually refused closeness during those times. they were the parts that has the traumatic memories, so naturally they did not trust adults nor want to be touched by them when given the choice and would not ask either. it is only after I integrated that I enjoyed being held while crying and remembering the past. my adult and fully aware self didnt mistrust adults because up until I integrated I didnt have those traumatic memories to hinder my involvement with adults.

your therapist not having time for emails.most therapists check their email (on a computer) during their off work times. I too dont have time during my off the clock hours for checking and responding to emails and neither does my therapist.

the emailing that is set up for my therapist and her clients is during work hours and is part of our therapy sessions. how it works is when I go in for a session sometimes I check my "inbox" to see if my therapist has put any "emails" into it. I write my "email" to her either during our sessions or at home and bring them in.

As part of the preparation for our sessions (usually during that 5 minutes between her last client and mine) my therapist does a quick look through her "inbox" to see if theres anything from me. either during our sessions she says I got your email thanks do you feel like talking about it?

this way 1. she gets paid for it under my insurance for therapy work with me and 2 since its a part of her job not done during her off work hours there isnt that conflict of where to fit in emailing to clients during her own family time.

or later that day during her time that she writes up the client session /notes for the files, she writes her short "email" response if she has one.

our emailing program with my therapist is sort of like how some people will write journals or letters to their therapist, bring them in and the therapist reads them and you talk about that journal or letter. its just another way for clients to have for talking about anything they need / want to discuss with the therapist. sort of like the idea of having a comment box so that clients can bring things to the attention of the therapist, let the therapist know of any problems.