Understanding the Dissociative Disorders

This part it finds particularly useful too. Also should mention that dissociation during trauma involves what psychologists call "splitting"....and this "splitting" as a mechanism in itself forms the basis for the dividing off of alternate "selves" or "parts" of the self (i.e., "alters").

One thing you all left out -- understandable as the DSM folks have yet to nail it down (though it seems they use it in the UK already) would be DTD or TPD. DTD stands for "Dissociative Trance Disorder" but its UK name would probably be more accurate, "Trance Possession Disorder". Basically it constitutes a method of subsuming certain things formerly addressed strictly in a spiritual or religious setting/manner into psychology so it can be addressed by psychology instead, since the religious/spiritual milieus have run rife with abuses and unaccountability and outright lies being promulgated as "facts" about this condition. Malady simply calls it "being inhabited". The old world term being, of course, "demonic possession."

Here bes some facts about DTD found under the DD-NOS description in the articles here on PsychCentral:

Dissociative Disorder
Not Otherwise Specified (NOS)

SYMPTOMS

A dissociate disorder NOS (Not Otherwise Specified) is a disorder that includes a dissociative symptom (i.e., a disruption in the usually integrated functions of consciousness, memory, identity, or perception of the environment) that does not meet the criteria for any specific Dissociative Disorder. Examples include:

• Clinical presentations similar to Dissociative Identity Disorder that fail to meet full criteria for this disorder. Examples include presentations in which a) there are not two or more distinct personality states, or b) amnesia for important personal information does not occur.
• Derealization unaccompanied by depersonalization in adults.
• States of dissociation that occur in individuals who have been subjected to periods of prolonged and intense coercive persuasion (e.g., brainwashing, thought reform, or indoctrination while captive).
• Dissociative trance disorder: single or episodic disturbances in the state of consciousness, identity, or memory that are indigenous to particular locations and cultures. Dissociative trance involves narrowing of awareness of immediate surroundings or stereotyped behaviors or movements that are experienced as being beyond one's control. Possession trance involves replacement of the customary sense of personal identity by a new identity, attributed to the influence of a spirit, power, deity, or other person, and associated with stereotyped "involuntary" movements or amnesia. Examples include amok (Indonesia), bebainan (Indonesia), latah (Malaysia), pibloktoq (Arctic), ataque de nervios (Latin America), and possession (India). The dissociative or trance disorder is not a normal part of a broadly accepted collective cultural or religious practice. (See p. 727 for suggested research criteria.)

Full article: http://psychcentral.com/disorders/sx99.htm

On that last point -- in other words, if you came from a Voudon family and experienced chevalier (being "mounted by the loa") during ritual, this would not qualify as DTD because (a) it happens in a controlled setting; (b) it has a specific limited duration; and most importantly, (c) it constitutes a NORMAL and ACCEPTED part of religious experience in Voudon culture.

As seen by the above criteria, people with DDNOS and/or DTD can still present experiences symptomatic of (or similar to) DID, but with a few key differentials altering the Dx.

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Here bes an excerpt from the UK's online paper describing TPD (Trance Possession Disorder, same as DTD in the States). This one has probably the BEST (most clear, concise and ACCURATE) symptom list out there for DTD/TPD. (Malady has every symptom listed there so it KNOWS! ). Of course, being psych and not spiritual/religious, they leave out certain key spiritual or metaphysical components to the condition which show up most frequently during "combat mode", such as automatically knowing others' thoughts, motives, and secret "sins"; being able to tap into others' moral and emotional weaknesses and speak to these directly as if "from inside" them; various psychic phenoms like clairvoyance, clairaudience, telepathy, etc.; marked involuntary physical aversion to anything associated with or symbolic/representative of, whatever forces would be perceived as oppositional in alignment to those inhabiting (yeah, going catatonic near churches qualifies ... LOL); et.c.

OK excerpts:

Trance and Possession Disorder

Possession trance is characterized by a transient alteration in identity whereby one's normal identity is temporarily replaced (possessed) by a spirit, ghost, deity, or other person. The experience of being "possessed" by another entity, such as a person, god, demon, animal, or inanimate object, holds different meanings in different cultures and therefore the diagnosis for this disorder may be culturally bound. While possession is a common experience in many cultures, in Western industrialized cultures, such experiences are not the norm.



Associated Features:
Subjects often complained of a variety of associated symptoms:

• Loss of control over one's actions.
• Behavior change or acting differently.
• Loss of awareness of surroundings.
• Loss of personal identity.
  
• Difficulty distinguishing reality from fantasy at the time of the possession.
• Change in tone of voice.
• Wandering attention.
• Trouble concentrating.
• Loss of sense of time.
• Loss of memory.
• Belief that one's body changed in appearance.
  

Cause:
This condition is multifactorial, in which spiritual, social, psychological and physical factors may all play an aetioIogical role. It is also commonly accepted that dissociative identity disorders have their aetiology in an early history of repeated trauma and abuse, often to horrific degrees. However, as yet, there are no biological theories concerning the origin of these disorders. Therefore, besides screening for common medical and psychiatric conditions, the clinician should also examine the particular cultural context in which the patient presents.


Treatment:
A consideration in the treatment of Trance and Possession Disorder is determining whether the person is in the midst of an episode of mental disorder or having a spiritual problem. Therefore treatment currently revoles around assistance to cope with the physical aspects of possession.


Counseling and Psychotherapy:
Supportive therapy and psychotherapy may be helpful in certain situations. Family therapy is often helpful to assist relatives in coping with the affected individual. Behavioral techniques used in a therapeutic setting, or in the home can help a person learn behaviors that will lead to social acceptance.

Full paper here: http://www.psychnet-uk.com/dsm_iv/tr...n_disorder.htm

This makes a lot of sense out of something that I have been trying to explain to my therapists for years. It is scary to see it in writing. Thank you for posting the stuff about Trances and Possession


P.S. How come my reply is above post #31? Oh I think I get it I thought Malady's post 31 was a sticky (first post that always shows at the top).
Sorry

My boyfriend has related that I am having a distinct change in voice and personality at times. I am not aware of this when it is happening.

Severe amnesia means that one identity may have no awareness of what happens when another identity is in control.

This is quite troublesome for me. If I am not aware, then how do I have any kind of control?

Slick399

You don't. Which does not have to be as scary as it sounds, unless said personality causes harm to your life or the lives of those around you. Then it may be time to find a therapist competent in working with dissociative conditions.

Or, depending on the type of personality (human or not), a competent exorcist... HAH! good luck with THAT, they don't exist anymore.

* please don't read this if discussion of spiritual beings taking partial control of a person triggers you. i am commenting on this here from discussion on another thread because i didn't want to trigger anyone there. *

on the other thread someone asked if what i posted from malady's post on dissociative trance disorder or trance possession disorder was demon possession. first, i just want to say that i do believe DID exists. and that each case will be unique. i do believe that dissociative trance/possession disorder does include demonization (possession isn't the best word and tends to freak people out) but that doesn't mean anyone with DID also has demons. i know this whole subject can be very scary for people--shoot i don't like it at all either.

the reason i believe this does happen is because i've had demons cast out of me. i do have inner children but i don't have DID. i had ancestors who were into all kinds of bad things and the spirits (demons) got passed down to me in my generational lineage. i know how incredibly ridiculous this all sounds, but as they say seeing is believing. when i was first told this could happen i looked at the person who had said this like he had 3 heads, lol. less than 2 weeks later i believed what he had said was true. i'm a christian and all i can say is God made it very clear that this stuff was real and was going on with someone i knew who was exhibiting some very unusual behavior. turns out there was a reason i met this person as God later showed me a lot of my problems were similar to hers even though i didn't have the outward behaviors she did. i found out i had ancestors involved in a secret society and that was a big part of the problem.

sadly, as malady mentioned there are some christian ministries who try to help those with demons who only make things worse or turn the process into a show and/or let the demons attack the person. the people i've gone to for help have been wonderful and very kind, compassionate and would never do anything to hurt or embarrass you (or let the demons hurt or embarrass you) and it's usually private and confidential. the whole process of getting the demons to leave can be downright boring as they are so good at doing it so gently! no joke. if anyone wants more info about this from a christian perspective feel free to pm me. i know of a number of ministries around the US and even abroad who do this in a gentle, compassionate way. also, from what i know most of these groups that work with DID do tend to work toward integration. i had an experience where a bunch of my inner children fused. but one could go to them for the demon issue and work with someone else for the DID if they don't feel comfortable with integration.

Thanks for the info. I'm sorry I reacted with shock and fear

Calista....

You have nothing to apologize for. Shock and fear are very human reactions and dissociative disorders are quite scary issues to deal with.

It's all okay....

Ditto on this warning -- (potential) TRIGGER CITY AHEAD.

Agree with the above, but would amend it to state there may, in fact, be an actual separate condition all its own (dissociative trance disorder or trance possession disorder, a.k.a. DTD or TPD, Moriah calls it TPD usually) which in fact MIMICKS the symptoms of demonic infestation/inhabitation but has the same aetiology as DID (typically rooted in abuse, trauma, etc.) and has been caused by purely HUMAN situations and HUMAN responses, and does not involve unclean spirits directly at all.

So we have DID, TPD, TPD inclusive of demon activity, and demonic infestation/inhabitation -- four separate matters here to be considered, each with its own unique blend of misery and hell for the sufferer, its own blend of aetiological causes and its own needs for a thorough treatment protocol.

It gets messy because all four of these can bleed over into one another. It would be important in addressing the needs of those suffering to pinpoint exactly which elements bes present in their condition and which bes not, and treat them accordingly (this assumes of course a highly idealistic world in which properly blended psychospiritual therapeutic approaches could really exist and be viable and effective -- at this time we do not live in such a world).

Moriah bes inhabited and like you, has inner children but does not consider itself properly DID -- its consciousness bes too shattered, splintered, scattered and fragmentary for "whole" alters anymore, though it once had a rather tight little system of under a dozen or so. Everything blew apart in 1998.

Not going to diss or debate your personal experience here, but in Moriah's view all that "generational curse theology" happens to be completely false and a load of utter crap. It cannot be substantiated by a thorough study of scripture (mentioning this because you invoked a biblical template & milieu here) and not only that but it constitutes a total contradiction to more important and primary matters of that particular type of faith. BUT, this bes not the place to hash out theological debates. You can PM if you want to discuss this, but if you don't, no hard feelings.

No friend, WAY WAY WAY WAY WAAAAAYYY worse than all that (though all that would be bad enough!!!) WAY worse -- there bes them out there whats actually believe the way to address or "deal with" a case of demonic infestation/inhabitation would be to mentally, emotionally, and verbally "BEAT UP" on the VICTIM and THAT supposedly "hurts" the demons and "weakens" them and makes them leave. NOTHING COULD BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH, IT STRENGTHENS THEM INSTEAD *AND* IT PUSHES THE PERSON SUFFERING AND IN NEED OF HELP INTO A DANGEROUS POSITION WHERE THEY WILL BECOME COMPLIANT WITH THE DARK ONES BECAUSE THEY PERCEIVE EVERYONE OUTSIDE TO BE ATTACKING THEM AND THE DARK ONES WILL PROTECT THEM FROM THAT!!!! Having lived with this condition for 26 years Moriah KNOWS whereof it speaks. This bes NO light matter.

Moriah would guess then that they would be dealing more with "demons" in the psychological sense of the word -- the things that "bedevil" people in their minds -- rather than actual non-corporeal intelligences. At any rate it has yet to encounter anyone who knows what they really bes doing in these situations and who will not resort to blaming the victim and throwing them away in frustration while lying and slandering them claiming they refused to "let" God get the parasites out or else they must have failed to "choose" to want to be healed, etc. It knows EVERY f/cking trick in the book used by these charlatans and it has scoured the freaking PLANET (well OK just the USA as it has no passport and no legal name to get one, long story) looking for any sort of indication that any of these people know what the frack they bes doing and NONE of them do. Hell, even the incompetent ham-handed idiots that tried to "help" 20 years ago would, in their worst abject failures, be more useful than anything going on out there today. Unless there bes some underground railroad it has not yet uncovered, LOL, doubtful.

Yeah? Well do tell then. PM this one and let it know who/what you bes dealing with here because it hears this kind of "pitch" from time to time and so far it has panned out to be the same jerkoff spiritual abuser types it has encountered elsewhere. So it bes skeptical but it bes thorough too yeah? No stone left unturned, even if for no other reason than to be able to say it has done everything IT possibly could and where the hell did GOD vanish off to.

Sorry if this comes off harsh or anything, it has been even only just last week once again put through the wringer with the spiritual abusers coming out of the woodwork ... foul toxic nasty people all full of themselves thinking they bes God's righteous chosen thinking they has a right to malign the afflicted for their own comfort.

i'll just ditto this ditto. *trigger for talk of spirits/demons taking partial control of a person*

i tried to pm you but it said you don't accept private messages. you can pm me and then maybe it will let me respond or maybe you need to change your settings?

i haven't heard of this last one you mention. interesting.

yes, exactly

i'm really sorry to hear this.

nah, i'm not really interested in debating this. i will say that the most improvement i've seen in my life was after i got prayer for this stuff. additionally, i had something interesting happen. the guy who prayed for me at the beginning of the prayer session said he saw a mental picture of a map that looked like it was the ukraine or someplace near there. (they usually are trying to determine what part of the world all this stuff originated from for the person.) i don't have any relatives that i know of from there. then, he said he thought he was hearing in prayer that i am part jewish and i told him i knew of no jewish lineage in my family. well, i decided to do some genealogical research after this on my mom's maiden name as there had always been some confusion and mystery regarding where the name came from and what it meant. low and behold the only info i found on the name was listed on two major genealogical sites as being a "jewish surname in the russian empire"! anyway, i'm just sharing that to say i believe this ministry knew what they were talking about. but, we can most definitely agree to disagree.

this is really awful and i'm so sorry you went through this. unfortunately, i've met a number of people, mostly online, who have experienced some horrible spiritual abuse. i do think it can be some of the worst types of abuse.


the ministries i'm thinking of do deal with the actual spirit beings.

[QUOTE]At any rate it has yet to encounter anyone who knows what they really bes doing in these situations and who will not resort to blaming the victim and throwing them away in frustration while lying and slandering them claiming they refused to "let" God get the parasites out or else they must have failed to "choose" to want to be healed, etc. It knows EVERY f/cking trick in the book used by these charlatans and it has scoured the freaking PLANET (well OK just the USA as it has no passport and no legal name to get one, long story) looking for any sort of indication that any of these people know what the frack they bes doing and NONE of them do. Hell, even the incompetent ham-handed idiots that tried to "help" 20 years ago would, in their worst abject failures, be more useful than anything going on out there today. Unless there bes some underground railroad it has not yet uncovered, LOL, doubtful.[QUOTE]

forgive my asking but are you a christian? the reason i ask is because i'm wondering if they were trying to convert you. i'm not really sure how things would work for someone who isn't christian to try to go to one of these ministries for prayer. chances are they probably would try to convert a nonchristian because they would be concerned that if they did cast the spirits out and the person weren't then filled with the holy spirit then they would eventually end up with more evil spirits than they started out with. certainly, that is no excuse for abusing a person though! this would be something to discuss before the prayer starts and if the person didn't have any interest in becoming christian then they could simply bless the person with prayer for peace, etc. but not do the "deliverance" prayer. having said this, there might be some people who would pray for a nonchristian if they felt God lead them to. once the person experiences freedom from the spirits they might want to become christian. i know of a story where this happened but it was just a spontaneous thing where God told a guy to pray for a homeless man, he got free, and then became a christian.

if this isn't what you've been dealing with then please just ignore all that.

if you want me to pm you info i'll be more than happy to if you can receive private messages. if you feel comfortable let me know where you live (nearest major city) and if i know a particular ministry in that location i'll send you their info. but if you don't want to divulge your location i'll just send you a bunch of links to various places. also, if you let me know if you are a christian or not then i can help you better. i may know of someplace that could just pray more generally for healing rather than deal with the demon stuff. i just don't want to send you anywhere where you'd get harassed to convert if that is something you are not interested in if that is what your situation is.

no worries. whatever your situation is there is no excuse for harassing or abusing people. God just doesn't do that!! please take gentle care.

...crawling to touch the hem of the garment.............little mustard seed...............restored..........

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((((((((((( Malady & Reflection ))))))))))))))

((((((((((((((Thank you))))))))))))))

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...crawling to touch the hem of the garment.............little mustart seed...............restored..........

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(((((((((((( Malady & Reflection )))))))))))))))

((((((((((((((Thank you))))))))))))))

.

This is what my dr thinks I have. I also have the floaty "oh my this is not my life" "I must be dreaming" "whose life am I in" symptoms, and forget who I am and where I am, and why I'm there. Also lose large chunks of time but I've not slept, and can't remember where I've been.

My Stars, does this mean I'm not just depressed gad & panic & agoraphobic? and is this why the anti-depressants don't work?

This is the first real information I've seen on this disorder because I just thought I was blacking out and having epileptic seizures...groan...now I have to start learning again how to manage things..thats ok I'm not doing a bang up job at it anyway

we are the souls of many yet we are one. now give me one single minded person that can understand that to those who accept us we are nicked name the borg from star fleet enterprize. at first we did not like it but its the closes example that I can give you for some one with MPD/DID when you heal and no longer afraid to share with each other. It doesnot matter what you call it it is what you make of it. a rose is a rose no matter what name you give it. we are a rose bush we each have our own color, our own smell, our own stage in life. It is only when we stop being frozen in time that we grow and learn from each other that we the borg will heal. Yet I am the first to say that I will run and hide giving the first oppertunity. Old age and healing is not for the weak of heart. hold fast to that which gives you the most strengh. thank you for giving us strenght

Oh, no...this has occurred again.

um... thank you...

We thank thee all for letting me/us get this out...maybe if I/we read it and re-read it, it will be caught faster next time..

Toward more healing...time is our enemy now...but we are/I am no longer lost...there...for now....







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H.

You are right about borderline's dissociating, but it is a hole separate diagnosis with its own bowl of wax of problems. That's why its not listed in the same place. Smart of you to pick up on that tho...
Tunesinger

Thank you for this post, it explains alot!

great info, Thanks for sharing.

tHANKYOU.......REALLY CLEARED THINGS FOR ME
ROXYANNE1

This is aweome ty for sharing!

Hello,
This has helped me to put things in prespective as to what I went through with....'He'sThem'.....
Although I do believe he probably fits the Borderline Personality Disorder, I still am not sure.

Thank you Precious One,

in the past, I have become super aware of my surroundings, where I think This is ur life It's happening now and the people around me speaking..... their voices are fimilar and yet unknown at the same time. It's the oddest feeling and I don't like it at all.

I really appreciate the initial post explaining the differences between depersonalization & dissociaitive disorders. It came at a time when I was trying to figure out what was happeneing to me, which fits into depersonalization.

I read a lot of things which stike me as pretty outrageous, but I don't comment. However, I'm not going to stop myself from having this reaction, b/c I'm horrified that some people on this thread are actually perpetuating demonic possession. People, it's 2010!!! You are basing this on religious beliefs, which are not facts. Science is fact, not religion. Religion can be a good thing if it helps one to get through a hardship, although spirituality can do the same. But religion isn't a good thing if it stifles scientific progression & further stigmatizes mental illness & everyone's perceptions of it. And, I know this is going to come as a stab in the dark to some of you, but... not everyone is a Christian.
PEACE!

while I can appreciate your comment...... (I agree with you)... it's just that ... aren't you being a bit hypocritical?? below your screen name-- you have for location: "hell"..... isn't that related to "christianity"?... maybe your location could be-- "in the mud" or something.....

best to you

fins

fins,
It's just my sense of humor, which is a good thing for one to have when one suffers from severe depression.

Please be aware that in a number of dissociative and schizophrenic like illnesses, religious and cult like activity play a huge role in some members lives. You may not have an understanding of how it does and that's ok, but please refrain from making negative comments that may trigger or hurt another member who suffers with this kind of problem.

This thread was created to help members understand the dissociative spectrum, not to debate one's belief system.

Thanks for understanding!