[Amyjay]

Do your abusers know your alters? Some of them? All of them? Do your abusers call them out?
Do your abusers have alters of their own? Do your alters know different dads, different moms?
what does it all mean???

[Amyjay]

I think this is kind of scary territory. I am not sure where or why I am going here. I am not sure what I am asking either.

yes, they know some of them.

[childofchaos831]

My main abuser *says* she doesn't believe in DID and refuses to acknowledge the insiders' presence when they do come out. It's usually pretty obvious with the little, and she still says to stop talking "baby talk" which apparently has been a thing since elementary school for us.

[Amyjay]

Originally Posted by amandalouise

considering I wasnt diagnosed with DID until I was an adult and my abusers were prosecuted when I was a child, its safe to say my abusers did not know I had alters. I mean I didnt even know I had alters, and my alters did not know they were called alters because they functioned like any other flesh and blood person. my alters considered their selves to be just like any other human being.

my alters with my parents .... no again... my alters didnt go around saying hi mom Im Rainy, hi dad Im franny.

even after I was diagnosed my parents, siblings or other family and friends didnt go around calling out my alters. to them I was how i have been all my life.. when they saw me sitting there wrapped up in a blanket crying to them I was amandalouise. when we were talking about going out on a date to everyone that knew me my whole life time just considered it to be normal for me to go out on a date, they didnt have any idea that the alter that dated was called thelma.

in other words I wasnt what you see in movies and tv shows. my alters were there to protect the secrets and take care of those things that caused me to dissociate.

even my therapists over the years did not call out my alters, its actually an ethics violation in many USA states for treatment providers to purposely cause someone to dissociate/ call out their alters.

if someone is attempting to trigger you into your dissociation and make your alters "come out" Id say that person is not respecting you, your body and your internal system. calling out alters can actually cause more harm then good.

my suggestion is contact yours or a treatment provider that you feel you can trust and let them know what is happening. if you are an adult they can put you in touch with adult protective services who can help you to protect yourself and your system from those that want to purposely cause you to dissociate into alters, if you are under 18 you can contact your child protective services. they will help you to stop your abusers from continuing to harm you through triggering you to have your dissociation problems.

that said just like normal people my parents have gone through divorces/ deaths of spouses and then remarriage so of course I and my alters had more than one mother and more than one dad just like any other normal person with divorced/widowed parents but my step parents never did and never would cause me so much pain by triggering me to dissociate into an alter.

We are talking about very different things I think. I don't mean what you are talking about.

Originally Posted by Starry_Night

yes, they know some of them.

Maybe you understand?

Originally Posted by childofchaos831

My main abuser *says* she doesn't believe in DID and refuses to acknowledge the insiders' presence when they do come out. It's usually pretty obvious with the little, and she still says to stop talking "baby talk" which apparently has been a thing since elementary school for us.

I guess i wasn't very clear in my post. I meant did your abusers during the abuse know that you were dissociating and use what they knew. This isn't about telling them afterwards or alters telling everyone who they are. I mean abusers knowing different alters while the abuse is going on. Or even giving them names.

[Solnutty]

I don't have enough memory to know. Perhaps my abusers did, it would seem likely because of how sadistic and calculated they were, from what I do remember. Also I can surmise it from one of my alters. Gnash got a lot of who he was from one of my abusers, specifically (he changed a whole lot over time and gained a conscience and a love for God, by the way, so the way I describe him here is how he was in the past). He was sadistic and and extremely manipulative. He could read people very well and seemed to know exactly what to say to them to get them to do what he wanted, and he was patient with this. Sometimes he would spend months or years working on someone to mold them to fulfill a certain role or even to just agree with him. One of my former lovers had what seemed to be a few parts. Now, I have no idea if they were as discrete as DID or if these were ego states, this was over a decade ago. But Gnash would coax one of them out and call him by his nickname. He liked this one because he could manipulate him and be his, er... worst. That's to say he called out this side of my partner because it worked to his personal advantage and delight. These things remind me of one of my abusers very strongly but I have no specific memories I can access about it (nor do I want to), just a sense.

My parents knew how to push my buttons....the look, snarl, tone....to get what they wanted to hear. Did they know? No. But they knew what they wanted to hear.

Are you like talking about RA, where they intentionally created alters for an agenda?

Not with me but there are posters that have lived such a life. Maybe they will step up. Idk.

[Amyjay]

Originally Posted by AlwaysChanging2

My parents knew how to push my buttons....the look, snarl, tone....to get what they wanted to hear. Did they know? No. But they knew what they wanted to hear.

Are you like talking about RA, where they intentionally created alters for an agenda?

Not with me but there are posters that have lived such a life. Maybe they will step up. Idk.

I don't know what I am talking about I don't know what I mean, I don't know what RA is. I have a half memory about what an alter told the therapist which was something about why the alters are terrified to tell the therapist their names. I think something scary was said and it feels very hard to go back.

RA is just short for ritual abuse such that you'll find in a cult setting like satanism Are you able to ask that alter why?

I find it hard to trust anyone whose job it is to mess with our systems make up. Maybe it takes more time?

[dlantern]

My therapist abuser from a church cult to no fault of our own knew us called us out knew everything we would have to endure yet kept it for their abusing to stroke their own ego. Spiritual abuse happens, I just use it for folks in our system from a more professional approach not anything ghetto like her survivor story, says she is since they were survivor as well. For those that are generally in their hiding places irked or need to understand that they have been shared with they don't have to assume we lived in that cult as well observing laughing it certainly isn't fair to assume. I don't think it is fair to assume that introjects need to bash those therapist introject , but only for the right reason. So we share to each other it just not a one sided deal.

[childofchaos831]

Not part of my experience, but...

Usually when the abuser is aware of the alter and/or tried to create alters, give them names, train them, that is common in RA. Ritual abuse is usually a cult or religious setting. But the same behaviors can be used by parents or caregivers, or really any abuser. To the same effect... it's a lot harder to deal with later on in life, because the programming is so deep and the alters do not trust anyone for a long time.

My parents were very ritulistic in the sense that same words and tones were spoken requiring the same answer after years of beatings.....my father was sadistic in the manner that he got enjoyment evidensed by the sneering smirk and eye glint...over the control he had over us....even today 40 years later....so no communications with him.

My mother is the same but she followed on cue...she's just a simple farm girl not knowing anything....so we get along fine.

[Amyjay]

Originally Posted by childofchaos831

Not part of my experience, but...

Usually when the abuser is aware of the alter and/or tried to create alters, give them names, train them, that is common in RA. Ritual abuse is usually a cult or religious setting. But the same behaviors can be used by parents or caregivers, or really any abuser. To the same effect... it's a lot harder to deal with later on in life, because the programming is so deep and the alters do not trust anyone for a long time.

I have the history report that was given to my psychologist and in there it said "the dissociated parts were terrorized into silence by the extensive training component of the abuse" but I don't know where that came from or what it means. I am too scared to ask my psychologist about it because.... i don't know I am just scared. I am scared there is something i don't know and don't want to know. I know I have to talk to her when she comes back from vacation about the parts being too scared to tell her who they are though. She knows their names they just cant say "I am Jess" or whoever when they are there in front of her and that is what she wants them to be able to do. She has been pressuring to do that for weeks and weeks and it is just too hard.

[childofchaos831]

Originally Posted by Amyjay

I have the history report that was given to my psychologist and in there it said "the dissociated parts were terrorized into silence by the extensive training component of the abuse" but I don't know where that came from or what it means. I am too scared to ask my psychologist about it because.... i don't know I am just scared. I am scared there is something i don't know and don't want to know. I know I have to talk to her when she comes back from vacation about the parts being too scared to tell her who they are though. She knows their names they just cant say "I am Jess" or whoever when they are there in front of her and that is what she wants them to be able to do. She has been pressuring to do that for weeks and weeks and it is just too hard.

Could you tell her that you are not ready yet for that deepness? I would say, most likely if the parts are scared to identify themselves to her, that for whatever reason, they do not trust or feel safe enough with her yet.

When it comes to the trauma work, especially with DID, it takes a very long time, longer than almost anything else. I wonder if her pressuring feels threatening to them in some way.

Recently, my T and I started lightly discussing integration and my opinion of it and whether I feel it would ever be a possibility, in the way most people hear the word (parts becoming one). Even barely touching on the subject sent me into a tail spin that I was not prepared for and am still reeling from. My system isn't ready to even go near that.

I wonder if it's the same with you and yours when it comes to this? By identifying themselves, they may feel like what they say can then be used against them...

I don't know, just throwing out ideas...

[Amyjay]

Thanks yes I need to talk about it with her and tell her to stop pushing. We are doing stage one work not trauma work but she keeps saying she needs to know which one is present with her to be able to work with us, she says she needs to tailor her help to each one and then needs to know which others ones know how to use the techniques she teaches.
Each time she pushes on this issue I get very triggered but the worst one was last time when she pushed and pushed right at the end of the session and then we had to leave triggered AND it was the last session before she went abroad for several weeks. It did not feel safe at all and was very destabilizing.
I don't know exactly what the fear is but it is like if anyone says their name they will be trapped and something very bad will be done to them. This feeling takes over even with the ones who do normal life things and haven't had any trauma. Its like a rule for all parts that no one can say who they are to the outside world. But we can talk about each other and say each others names with our therapist without any problem at all. It only happens when any one is asked to say their own name.
Anyway I am going to talk about it with her when she comes back. It isn't safe for her to keep pushing so hopefully she can find another way to work with the system.

[childofchaos831]

I would also like to say, you don't need to know why right now. The pushing is triggering for you and yours right now. That should be enough reason for her to acknowledge that approach is not working.

The parts not saying their names or identifying themselves probably comes out of a protective instinct, I would guess. Think of it more like a phobia of heights or spiders. Not every spider is able to kill you and falling 5 ft isn't going to cause much harm, but falling from higher or coming across a brown recluse or black widow on the other hand, that fear becomes healthy. At some point, the parts have probably been hurt somehow after identifying themselves. Now, you T isn't (intentionally) going to harm them, but the fear is still there.

For me, I always wondered why I didn't remember anything from before 17 years old. I wanted to know why and I wanted to know what I wasn't remembering. It took time, and I found out why. I wasn't there. I'm not the original, I'm just the host. I came to being when the body was 17. As for the not remembering and wanting to know what happened, those memories are still hidden. However, I've come to realize that when I am ready to know, the insiders will let me know. While each insider holds their own memories, there are a few who remember everything from the point the system emerged. I came to the understanding that not knowing is protecting me, in some way, and I just had to accept that for now.

I had a T, the very first time any insider came out with her, ask him what happened to him. First, no, just no. Second, that insider is 9 years old, so again, no. Third, she completely ruined any trust that was beginning to develop there, just by asking.

I say this, because sometimes Ts need to have it brought to their attention that their approach is not working. They only do what they have been taught and trained to do, and sometimes forget that different clients need different approaches.

We have to stand up for what we need. They can't read our minds, so unless we say it, they often don't know how triggering things are to us.

[Amyjay]

Originally Posted by childofchaos831

I would also like to say, you don't need to know why right now. The pushing is triggering for you and yours right now. That should be enough reason for her to acknowledge that approach is not working.

The parts not saying their names or identifying themselves probably comes out of a protective instinct, I would guess. Think of it more like a phobia of heights or spiders. Not every spider is able to kill you and falling 5 ft isn't going to cause much harm, but falling from higher or coming across a brown recluse or black widow on the other hand, that fear becomes healthy. At some point, the parts have probably been hurt somehow after identifying themselves. Now, you T isn't (intentionally) going to harm them, but the fear is still there.

For me, I always wondered why I didn't remember anything from before 17 years old. I wanted to know why and I wanted to know what I wasn't remembering. It took time, and I found out why. I wasn't there. I'm not the original, I'm just the host. I came to being when the body was 17. As for the not remembering and wanting to know what happened, those memories are still hidden. However, I've come to realize that when I am ready to know, the insiders will let me know. While each insider holds their own memories, there are a few who remember everything from the point the system emerged. I came to the understanding that not knowing is protecting me, in some way, and I just had to accept that for now.

I had a T, the very first time any insider came out with her, ask him what happened to him. First, no, just no. Second, that insider is 9 years old, so again, no. Third, she completely ruined any trust that was beginning to develop there, just by asking.

I say this, because sometimes Ts need to have it brought to their attention that their approach is not working. They only do what they have been taught and trained to do, and sometimes forget that different clients need different approaches.

We have to stand up for what we need. They can't read our minds, so unless we say it, they often don't know how triggering things are to us.

Thank you! This is so helpful.