[sh50]

I am far more witty and pally with one of my wife’s friends than I am with her. What happens spontaneously and effortlessly with my wife’s friend just does not happen with her no matter how hard I try. My married life would be great if this could happen

My wife is a better doer than I am. When we go travelling, she kind of takes charge and does all the organizing and coordinating while I virtually become a passenger. However when I travel alone, I do much better but what happens spontaneously when alone just does not happen with her where I struggle for the same level of efficiency when alone.

On the Tennis court, if I play doubles with a better Tennis partner,I tend to get complacent but I take charge when I am the better partner. The same aggressiveness just does not come when I play with a partner better than me.
Basic question- How does one force a certain behavior where it does not come out when the same behavior comes out so spontaneously and effortlessly in a different situation or with a different person?

Is there any medical terminology for this predicament which I have called psychological relativity for want of a better expression.?

[pegasus]

Hello sh50, welcome to Psych Central.

I don't think there is a medical term for that unless there is some sort of anxiety that comes along when you feel you have to take a step back. Do you feel anxious at these times? It sounds like you prefer and enjoy to take the lead at times. I would talk to your wife and explain that you would like to do the organising and coordinating sometimes. A good partnership is about communication and being able to work things out for the good of both of you. If you always have to take the back seat then that doesn't do much for your confidence.

[avlady]

She probably hasn't seen you in action doing your own planning and maybe feels she needs to see you can do it

[Perna]

Originally Posted by sh50

but I take charge when I am the better partner

Hi, sh50. The above rang a bell with me. I use to be extremely anxious all the time, especially socially, but noticed when I was the one in charge I stepped up to the plate and would show those younger/even more unsure of themselves that things were easy/all right. I would go up to the stranger and ask the question, no problem, etc. :-)

Don't know if there is a word for what we are describing. For me, "fatalism" comes to mind. When I am a 12 on a scale of 1-10 I often just make myself give up and sort of start over, things cannot get any worse? I might as well just realize I am going to bomb/fail/have a hard time, whatever. In your examples it sounds like you come up against someone "better" than you are at something and you feel you cannot hope to compete so you just go passive?

I think it is an attitude thing. There is no competition, despite what the other person might imply or what we see looking at the situation. No, you cannot become as good a tennis player as the other person in this game, right now, but you could, if you wanted to (and you probably do not have that much interest?) practice improving your game, have the other person help you with his play instead of compete against you, etc.

The wife/friend of wife thing is similar only the friend of the wife is naturally more relaxed than your wife perhaps and her relaxation and love of fun, imagination, good humor and various similar traits communicates itself to you. My husband was married when I met and started working with him and he and I hit it off in that way. We have similar backgrounds, senses of humor, and he is very laid back so even my sarcasm/occasional ugly moods do not give rise to difficulties between us. I was telling my therapist how his attitude helps me sometimes with some of his teasing -- if I get excited and my words get all jumbled up and he cannot understand me he will say things like "I don't hear any nouns!" and that will get me to stop, think about what I want to say, and slow down. My therapist was impressed I did not get offended and asked if she could "borrow" some of his tactics

My husband and I get along (married 25 years this September) so well because we let the other person be who they are. My husband is bald, 150 pounds overweight and smokes (and just belched :-) I can neither dress him up (hard to find clothes to fit him and he does not wish to wear anything very dressy, no coat, tie, etc.) nor take him out When we were at a formal dinner (linen tablecloth, silver, the whole 9 yards) he took the cloth napkin and tucked it into his belt and then rearranged the silverware to his liking. We were eating in the "European" fashion, salad after the meal, but he does not know a salad fork from a dessert fork and wants his salad only at the beginning, refused it when it was served -- this was at my maternal uncle's home on our honeymoon and my aunt and uncle had given us a very generous check for our wedding present. Talk about impressing family with my choice of husband, LOL!

I supposed, if you wanted to you could try to teach your wife to "play". There's a lot of conversation in play, it does not sound like you and your wife have enjoyable conversations about your selves and what you want together, tease each other, etc.? My husband and I sit and work (we're retired) here at home less than 10 feet apart but still, we send each other emails, read aloud from our computers/projects when something funny/interesting comes up, we "share" things. Do you and your wife do chores together? Next time you are in the car riding together, share some of your thoughts about what you see, what "happens" on the drive, some of your "odd" thoughts. Ask her opinion on all the closed stores in "that" shopping center you pass, ask her what kind of store she would open there if she were going to, how she would improve the neighborhood, get stores going again, what she thinks of the gaily painted metal umbrellas on the outdoor furniture at the car wash, doesn't that look like it should be an amusement park of some kind?

For me, it all boils down to what I want. Do you want to get better at tennis? Not particularly But maybe you want to get good enough to at least play with this partner more often, given them a run for their money? That would require a plan/practice with them, wanting something other than the surface 2-people-make-appointment-to-play-tennis "checkbox" sort of life. Life is not supposed to be a to-do list. Wife better at planning? Have wife plan when vacationing together. Show your vulnerability and ask her to teach you to be better organized? My husband asked me to teach him about meat at the grocery store, how to choose/buy it, he hadn't a clue. Next time we went to the store (Do you grocery shop together? Why not? Do some things you do not know how/are uninteresting/boring to you -- it's probably uninteresting/boring to your wife too but "chores" have to be done, much better when done together/is shared -- ask your wife if she wants to go along next time you go for a car repair/oil change?) at the meat counter I started showing him different kinds and cuts of meat (his ex-wife only fed him chicken apparently and he doesn't even like chicken :-) and telling him what they were used for, what dish they "made" but a minute and a half into my explanation, he was already lost and anxious and did a "never mind, it is too confusing for me, how about I just let you continue to do the meat buying?" and we still laugh about that -- it had been his idea. I'm left handed and he does the dish washing chore to my cooking trade off. I complained that the utensil/silverware drawer was set up for a right handed person and when I occasionally unload the dishwasher, it is harder for me to put the utensils away because they are "backwards". One day to surprise me he turned everything in the drawer around only confessed/told me about it later that evening because I never got to see it as he couldn't cope with it being backwards for him! LOL He practices seeing things from my perspective and does not mind being vulnerable because he cannot do them as well or does not feel badly about himself because he does not want to learn to do them. He acknowledges me and what I am doing, is aware of it personally, does not take the little things for granted. Maybe that is what you want to practice doing?

[Travelinglady]

Hi, sh50, and welcome to Psych Central! You might also want to check out our Relationships and Communication forum.

[sh50]

Thanks for your replies everybody especially Perna who has replied so comprehensively. Your tips about doing things together are well taken.

Husband wife was just an example. What I was getting as was that the behaviors that come to us naturally and spontaneously in a particular situation come sparsely or not at all in other situations. Even if there is no terminology for this, there must be some way of making forced behavior as good as natural behavior. Again, I am not in competition with my wife. I just wish I was more spontaneously smart with her on certain issues.

It happened to me long before in front of a super efficient boss. My natural exuberance and confidence took a nose dive in his presence and returned the moment I parted company with him and joined another company where the folks were not so super efficient. I am not aiming to be super efficient all the time but I wonder about this phenomenon. Einstein's relativity is everywhere I guess. We could be much more or less efficient in other environments

[Perna]

I think most things are learned. We think we "spontaneously" brush our teeth every morning before we go downstairs and start our day (a friend of mine -- I tease him about whether he brushed his teeth before or after doing something "surprising" (someone at his door early in the morning)) but it was once just a learned behavior, became habit. I think for your examples we responded one way instead of another and in that "type" of situation it became habit. We smile at people who smile at us or respond "Hi" if someone waves/says "Hi" to us. Yes, we can do the opposite if we want, be the first to greet others and yes, that sometimes feels like an uphill battle (when a known curmudgeon is coming down the street toward us or our taciturn boss, the hallway) but with enough "practice" it feels just as natural as brushing our teeth

I think it is just the law of numbers. I love Malcolm Gladwell's books and theories and what you are describing reminds me of http://www.amazon.com/The-Tipping-Po.../dp/0316346624 I know what you mean about being around the efficient company versus less efficient only I have felt that way around a "relaxed" company whose employees love to party versus a more serious (but still "nice") non-partying company. Like attracting like?

[PoorPrincess]

Very interesting thread. Thank you all.

[brainhi]

I find myself doing this at times as well. I am able to take the lead in many situations. There are a few others that I work with or who I am social with that I "let" them take the lead. One of the people I am talking about - I know it is a compromise on my part. She is very controling and I "let" her take the lead because it's easier - and not worth being the leader at times. Somethings I will feel very principled about something then I will stand my ground.

Other times I am showing respect and courtesy. If it is "their show" I do not need to take the lead. As I get to know someone, I will let them be "who they are" and figure out how I WANT to fit in.

With my brothers...everyone wants to be the leader - that's always entertaining.

[guilloche]

Hi SH50 - I know what you're talking about and am fascinated by it as well. I think it's a component of personality, but I don't think I've ever seen it explicitly named.

You might want to read a bit about the "DISC" model of personality. I can't remember what the letters stand for (sorry) because when I was introduced to it, it was via "colors" for the various personalities. The idea was that we all have a mix of the 4 colors/types in us, some of us are very dominant in one or two areas, others are more or less equal across the four. How we interact with specific people is based on our personality and theirs...

Here's a super-shortened overview of what I remember:
- Red: Energetic, leader, take-charge, efficient, rule-breaking to get things done
- Yellow: Social, fun loving, social butterfly, chatty, rather be at the beach, playful
- Green: Harmonizing, lots of imagination, conflict-avoidant, good at getting along with others and seeing their point of view, good at fitting in with others, good at entertaining themselves with their thoughts
- Blue: Analytical, thinks, over-analyzes, hard on self

I'm primarily blue and green. We learned about this in a workshop at work... and what was fascinating was that we did 2 activities. In the first, we were grouped with people very similar to ourselves... I was in a group of mostly green folks. Everyone in my group was extremely quiet, laid back, peaceful, go with the flow... nobody wanted to take charge. I have a tiny bit of red, and that situation totally made me jump in and grab the reigns (which I generally do NOT do!). I wasn't good at it, but I sensed that someone needed to lead, and that no one else was prepared to do it... so I did my best.

In the second activity, we were put in groups that were more balanced. My group had two very red guys, who immediately took charge, organized the problem, assigned roles, and just made everything happen very fast. I very much tried to stay out of their way, and be ready when they needed my part of the puzzle. (Our team won that challenge, btw!). In that situation, I didn't need to step up because there were capable leaders... had I tried to take over, it would have been messy, since the "red" folks have a bit more of a natural inclination to be pushy than my sensitive little green self

The woman running the workshop actually even said that she advises her clients, "If you're primarily blue or green, don't argue with people who are red or yellow. The red people will rip you to shreds, and the yellow ones will dance circles around you."

Anyway, it doesn't answer your question... but it was interesting, and something to think about!