[Bugs-N-Hugs]

So, I've been in crisis, slow-mounting, but there, since yesterday (Monday) morning, when my NP told me she didn't think I had BPD, despite me meeting all nine of the DSM-5 criteria, when only five are needed for a positive diagnosis.

(It's not that I WANT to have BPD. What I want is hope that the reason I've not been getting better--only worse--is because my diagnosis of Bipolar I and PTSD was incomplete. That with a more complete diagnosis, I can get more fitting meds and treatment.)

My NP said that I'm "not manipulative," like someone with BPD should be, which is utter ********, but she doesn't seem to know or want to hear that. I suppose I've been manipulating her opinion of me a little too well. Which, to me, is the definition of a truly manipulative person: One who can control the way they're perceived no matter who or how they really are. They can make people think they're nice, sane, well-adjusted, sweet, and not-manipulative when they are, in fact, the exact opposite. My NP is kind, but tone-deaf, and doesn't know me at all. She thinks she does, but she doesn't. She sees what I let her see, and then flings medicine at my proverbial wall and hopes that this time, it'll stick.

So, not only do I feel invalidated and discounted--not listened to--but I no longer trust her opinion or my own, as a result of her dismissive attitude. And I'm so paranoid I'm wondering if my even counselor's willingness to listen and entertain my opinion is merely put-on, a facade to keep me calm till she can disabuse me of my wrong-headed notions.

I've been doing nothing but brooding and obsessing and drinking coffee for the past day. As usual for the past eight months, I barely sleep 2.5 hours a night and never without nightmares, except for a few times I can count on three fingers. The nightmares are escalating, getting worse literally EVERY NIGHT. Every night of sleep I get is the worst night of sleep I've ever had. And the morning after, when I wake up--before 2 a.m.--that morning is the worst morning I've ever had . . . with the exception of the morning I was woken up because my grandmother had gone into cardiac arrest and shortly thereafter died. (Twenty-six years later, that is still the worst morning of my life, ever.)

I don't know if this is the right forum for this post, but I don't know what to do. The people I've been trusting for years with my mental health don't feel trustworthy anymore. No one does, not even myself, although that's nothing new. I don't know what to think or where to turn. I need some sort of hope or ray of sunshine. I can't stop crying--I'm sobbing so hard sometimes I can barely breathe. The rest of the time I'm numb and dissociating. I can't focus on anything and have literally spent the last twelve hours either awake and staring into space, asleep and having nightmares, or haunting this site trying to figure out what I need to say and where I need to say it. I just want to curl up and go to sleep . . . never to wake up. I'm not making threats, just thinking wishfully. I complain about having to be alive, but I'm neither brave enough nor proactive enough to actually do anything about it.

But I'm so tired of hurting and being confused and not all there. Tired of just holding on by my fingernails and living because I don't have the courage to do the opposite. Tired of alive(-ish) being merely my default, not my choice. And I don't know to whom I should talk about this when it feels as if my two professional supports are at best being condescending and at worst trying to keep me as mentally ill as possible. Even my friends with diagnoses don't seem to understand or know how to help.

I'm scared and alone and I don't know what to do at all anymore. Someone please tell me what to do. How to make it better.

Thank you for listening.

[Thunder Bow]

What to do? Stay in therapy and commit yourself to the determination to heal. Stop finding reasons to feel bad about yourself. Drop the labels. Your NP is on the right track.

[MickeyCheeky]

I don't have any advice to give, I'm sorry.. but know that we're with you and that we'll listen and won't judge

Have you tried to change your doctor? Is it possible?

Be strong

[Bugs-N-Hugs]

Originally Posted by Thunder Bow

What to do? Stay in therapy and commit yourself to the determination to heal. Stop finding reasons to feel bad about yourself. Drop the labels. Your NP is on the right track.

The ol' "pull myself up by my bootstraps"-fix? Gee. Why didn't I think of that?

I dunno if you actually read my post, but I don't care about labels, I care about getting the right meds and treatment for whatever I have, be it BPD or something else. And that requires, um, PROPER LABELING OF MY CONDITIONS.

I want to be taken seriously and listened to, even if not agreed with, not fobbed off with glib statements about dropping labels I don't care about and telling me my big problem is "feeling bad" about myself when I have actual, diagnosed illnesses that play hobble-de-hoy with my brain and emotions. At least my NP dismisses what I say because I've been remiss in letting her know how things stand with me. On that, I suppose I have no one to blame but myself. But you . . . you're rudely--cruelly--dismissing a flat-out, wrenchingly and painfully honest cry for help. "Stop finding reasons to feel bad about myself"? Seriously? I never expected such a callous, ill thought-out response on THIS SITE of all places. I don't know if you're purposely being cruel or you're just spectacularly thoughtless at the moment, but please never say those things to anyone again, unless you're just looking for ways to make someone who's already in pain cry.

And the awful thing is, you're likely going to dismiss everything I've just said and my original post because you'll likely think I'm just feeling sorry for myself and wallowing in something that can be solved by stopping "feeling sorry" for myself and "committing to" healing.

Because, you know, that's what us mentally ill-types like to do. Feel sorry for ourselves and not-heal. A real epidemic, that.

What horrible things to say to someone who laid themselves bare looking for real empathy and understanding and help. Who could barely see to type for weeping. Why are you even here if that's the extent of your sympathy, empathy, and compassion?

[Bugs-N-Hugs]

Originally Posted by MickeyCheeky

I don't have any advice to give, I'm sorry.. but know that we're with you and that we'll listen and won't judge

Have you tried to change your doctor? Is it possible?

Be strong

The judging has already started, Mickey. But thank you for your kind words and virtual hugs. They feel just as good as RL kindness and hugs

(Kindness is at least as helpful as advice, sometimes. This is one of those times.)

Have a good one.

[Thunder Bow]

It looks like I hit a nerve here. Feeling bad about oneself is like having an old friend that is hard to let go off. To the mind it means survival. Therapy can help you let go of that process. Thus, I am not here to re-enforce ones bad feelings about oneself. I encourage you to stay true to yourself, and dedicate yourself to your own healing. Therapy is not easy and takes much courage.

[Bugs-N-Hugs]

Originally Posted by Thunder Bow

It looks like I hit a nerve here. Feeling bad about oneself is like having an old friend that is hard to let go off. To the mind it means survival. Therapy can help you let go of that process. Thus, I am not here to re-enforce ones bad feelings about oneself. I encourage you to stay true to yourself, and dedicate yourself to your own healing. Therapy is not easy and takes much courage.

Of course, you hit a nerve. You may not have meant to, but to me, it seemed implied that by me researching and studying an illness that may actually be one that I have and can be successfully treated for, after seven years of treatment with little success, that I'm the one setting back my own healing. By being proactive and getting informed. By caring. That, of course, pissed me the eff off. I by no means have had the worst time ever, but neither have I had the easiest. I'm certain that if you're here, like a lot of us, life hasn't been all puppies and roses for you, either. So when someone says something that implies that one is basically being resistant to healing and not applying themselves to being as mentally healthy as they're able, it understandably feels like an undeserved dig.

I have no plans to discontinue treatment, though I may look for other providers. If I can't trust that I'm being listened to and taken seriously, what am I even in counseling for? It solves nothing to have one's woes fall on deaf ears. When one doesn't feel listened to, as perhaps evidenced by my previous reply to you, one can get vituperative and spiteful and angry. And while that last may be righteous, the other two are not. So if I came across as judgmental and cruel to you, then I apologize for a rant that while honest, may not have been tactful. I don't apologize for the way I felt and feel, but perhaps for letting myself fly off the handle a bit, and in your direction. (I have no middle ground, only complete suppression of feelings and spewing feelings all over the place like an emo-bomb.)

So, TL;DR? Thank you for replying with advice you thought was and may have found helpful in your own life. Clearly it wasn't what I needed or wanted to hear, mostly because it's never worked to calm, comfort, or motivate me. I apologize for letting my temper get the best of my pen, though my feelings and thoughts and response were legit and honest . . . and for as part of my recovery, I'm trying my best to be honest about said feelings. Or at least not purposely dishonest. And finally, I wish you continued success in your own recovery. Cheers.

[leejosepho]

I watched this yesterday and gained a new perspective that might help a bit:

Science is a learning process that involves experimentation, failure and revision — and the science of medicine is no exception...

Kevin B. Jones: Why curiosity is the key to science and medicine | TED Talk | TED.com

[Thunder Bow]

To me, I looks you are having success in your Therapy. Why? It is because your posts show healing, believe it or not. Why not share these feelings with your Therapist?

[kecanoe]

And I'm so paranoid I'm wondering if my even counselor's willingness to listen and entertain my opinion is merely put-on, a facade to keep me calm till she can disabuse me of my wrong-headed notions.

It sounds like your counselor is on board with your ideas about BPD. Do you have past experience with the counselor that would lead you to believe that you are just being led on? Have you discussed how treatment for BPD would differ from what you are doing?

I don't think I would be too concerned about NP's opinion. Partly because as far as I am aware, there are no meds that treat BPD, and if you have Bipolar, you need to be on meds for that. It sounds like that is what NP is doing, unless I misread your post.

Do you think you need different treatment? It does sound like you are suffering. Have you considered talking to a t with experience treating BPD to get a second opinion?

[yogiK]

It'll get better, promise. Just put one foot in front of the other and try to get some spiritual relief by knowing the universe will take care of you. Your trials, tribulations, and life right now may not yield to happiness, joy or contentment, but keep working on getting better and that'll come to fruition. I find that our society is so label dependent. What if we are just humans having a hard go at life and in a struggle? Why do people have to be wrong about who they are and how they are feeling?

I am so sorry about your sleep issues... I have been having them myself lately. Is there anything you can do to get through the evening? Maybe your body/mind doesn't need a lot of sleep now but perhaps you can read a good book or watch something positive? I've been watching a lot of Louise Hay lately on Youtube. Sometimes I feel I am my own worst enemy and am really sabotaging my getting well- which is strange and seems like it shouldn't be the case. Every day I have to make a conscious decision that I am going to try and not brood over my misery and will try and put one foot in front of the other, and that includes getting out of the house!.. Even if for a brisk walk w my dog or something.

Also, I think your counselor is doing their best to help you and it may not involve labeling you as something. That's ok... I am sure he/she is trying to help you get better and, if you think they aren't, I would change doctors.

I am praying for you! Try and be positive or watch something good. Get your mind off of yourself and your woes is really important (at least for me). I can sit in my own S*#$ all day and feel even worse, or I can try differently. Here's a link to Louise:

[Lost_in_the_woods]

As someone who was for most for my life also on the throw everything at the wall not see what sticks MH treatment, I understand completely how you are feeling atm. I also have been thru periods of mistrust and disgust, frustration with many providers over the yrs. And also had many whom I felt were very condescending and dismissive. And went down the rabbit hole of dx research as well.
Some suggestions that helped me muddle thru, just from my personal experience, you are free to take or leave whatever you want...just know I am writing from a place of understanding and kindness
1. Get a Genome Test done..if your insurance covers it or if you can afford one. They do ones that strictly geared towards pharadynamics and pharmakenetics for how your genotype may works with best to worst almost all currently known used psych meds. Helped me immensely. Not that it at all found a cure all..quite the opposite in fact! But it did finally after yrs of terrible AD med trys show that I lack crucial enzymes that convert these meds and there for they were in fact making my body sicker and worsening my depression.
2. Ask your therapist for a list of DBT groups in your area. This is a therapy that is targeted to treat BPD but is good life skills regardless of whether you may be dxd with. So even if you aren't dxd w/ BPD..this type of therapy is currently considered the best treatment available. See if you can "audit" a couple of different groups for a session to figure out if it is something that you are interested in doing and to find an atmosphere of comfort.
3. Have you tried CALMLY speaking to your providers about how you are precieving their attitude towards you and your treatment plan?.. *CAUTION* HOW YOU APPROACH THIS!..Write down a list of things that make you feel like this and USE I STATEMENTS!..I know makes me roll my eyes writing that phrase but honestly, if you can manage to stay calm and let them know that a few (just top 3 maybe) instances or whatever that have happened from the POV of ex: "I know would like to talk about something you said to me in last session. I felt very dismissed when you said...." Then either explain why you find that language to trigger you and prefer that not be used or if you don't know why wait for your ts response. Which if they are worth while will take your concerns seriously and explain what their intentions were and help you explore why you are feeling upset by them...if they reply dismissively despite your best efforts to talk to them in a clear calm assertive manner...then maybe time to start looking for a new T/PDoc.
Just some ideas...hope you find something in this response helpful
Be Well and Keep Writing!

[Bugs-N-Hugs]

Originally Posted by leejosepho

I watched this yesterday and gained a new perspective that might help a bit:

Thank you. Will watch when I'm a bit more clear-headed (hopefully in a few hours). At the moment, I'm all over the place in a not-good way. After two relatively good days. Right now, I feel as if I'd weep over a Marx Bros. bit and punch an old lady in the face for offering me cookies and cocoa. I'm a mess.

[Bugs-N-Hugs]

Originally Posted by Thunder Bow

To me, I looks you are having success in your Therapy. Why? It is because your posts show healing, believe it or not. Why not share these feelings with your Therapist?

I don't feel very healing-y. Not compared to how I do, some days, when my smile is real and my tears are from laughing so hard.

Talked to my counselor about everything I've been feeling and . . . it helped. I feel pretty sure she's hearing me, not just listening to me talk.

The past two days have been good. Today, so far, is not. Maybe because of bad sleep, bad dreams, and bad back-pain. But it's more puzzling than enraging, for once, and I'm feeling thankful for small favors :-)

[Bugs-N-Hugs]

Originally Posted by kecanoe

And I'm so paranoid I'm wondering if my even counselor's willingness to listen and entertain my opinion is merely put-on, a facade to keep me calm till she can disabuse me of my wrong-headed notions.

It sounds like your counselor is on board with your ideas about BPD. Do you have past experience with the counselor that would lead you to believe that you are just being led on? Have you discussed how treatment for BPD would differ from what you are doing?

I don't think I would be too concerned about NP's opinion. Partly because as far as I am aware, there are no meds that treat BPD, and if you have Bipolar, you need to be on meds for that. It sounds like that is what NP is doing, unless I misread your post.

Do you think you need different treatment? It does sound like you are suffering. Have you considered talking to a t with experience treating BPD to get a second opinion?

My NP is attempting to treat the bipolar--has been for years, but most meds either don't work, work in very not-good unexpected ways--including homicidal pyromania, on one mood-stabilizer--or stop working after a year or even less. Like, Paxil finally kicked the bucket, for me. I'm shortly to be on Prozac.

My counselor IS listening to me. Taking me seriously. She's never NOT. In fact, when she diagnosed me, I literally wept in her office because she was the first person to take how I felt and what I was going through seriously. She's always done so, and my paranoia made me irrational enough to forget that if anyone would believe me, it's her.

We've discussed what the approach to BPD treatment would be from her end, and it was just as I've read: More DBT, which is great, because I think DBT is made of awesome-sauce. I'm not terribly good at it, or being mindful, but when I succeed at it, it's . . . amazing for me.

So, the counseling stuff is squared. I just don't want my NP prescribing drugs that mess with something she thinks I don't have, but which I just might.

I've considered a second opinion, but I don't wanna pick just anyone my insurance covers. I'd have to do research and ask my counselor if she'd recommend anyone. Even if it's only for a few visits to get whatever diagnosis out of the way and settled. I've been lucky to have a great counselor, entirely through chance and no research. I don't wanna count on that happening a second time :-/

[Bugs-N-Hugs]

Originally Posted by Lost_in_the_woods

As someone who was for most for my life also on the throw everything at the wall not see what sticks MH treatment, I understand completely how you are feeling atm. I also have been thru periods of mistrust and disgust, frustration with many providers over the yrs. And also had many whom I felt were very condescending and dismissive. And went down the rabbit hole of dx research as well.
Some suggestions that helped me muddle thru, just from my personal experience, you are free to take or leave whatever you want...just know I am writing from a place of understanding and kindness
1. Get a Genome Test done..if your insurance covers it or if you can afford one. They do ones that strictly geared towards pharadynamics and pharmakenetics for how your genotype may works with best to worst almost all currently known used psych meds. Helped me immensely. Not that it at all found a cure all..quite the opposite in fact! But it did finally after yrs of terrible AD med trys show that I lack crucial enzymes that convert these meds and there for they were in fact making my body sicker and worsening my depression.
2. Ask your therapist for a list of DBT groups in your area. This is a therapy that is targeted to treat BPD but is good life skills regardless of whether you may be dxd with. So even if you aren't dxd w/ BPD..this type of therapy is currently considered the best treatment available. See if you can "audit" a couple of different groups for a session to figure out if it is something that you are interested in doing and to find an atmosphere of comfort.
3. Have you tried CALMLY speaking to your providers about how you are precieving their attitude towards you and your treatment plan?.. *CAUTION* HOW YOU APPROACH THIS!..Write down a list of things that make you feel like this and USE I STATEMENTS!..I know makes me roll my eyes writing that phrase but honestly, if you can manage to stay calm and let them know that a few (just top 3 maybe) instances or whatever that have happened from the POV of ex: "I know would like to talk about something you said to me in last session. I felt very dismissed when you said...." Then either explain why you find that language to trigger you and prefer that not be used or if you don't know why wait for your ts response. Which if they are worth while will take your concerns seriously and explain what their intentions were and help you explore why you are feeling upset by them...if they reply dismissively despite your best efforts to talk to them in a clear calm assertive manner...then maybe time to start looking for a new T/PDoc.
Just some ideas...hope you find something in this response helpful
Be Well and Keep Writing!

I' IN A DBT GROUP AND IT IS THE CAT'S MEOW!!!!

Ha, my research said DBT was the main treatment for BPD and so did my counselor, so she's gonna step up her DBT game--she usually focuses on the behavior-y, interpersonal stuff--and work more on the fundamentals and bare-bones with me, again.

I've tried the I-statements with the NP and it didn't work. Though it did with my counselor, but she really is openminded and listens to me. Even when my paranoia says she isn't.

The genome thing I'd never heard of! That bears looking into. Though just from a my-family-is-batcrap-insane standpoint, I wouldn't be surprised if some interesting things were found. Because everyone in my family is some kinda undiagnosed crazy-pants (technical term). I'm the first person in my family to be in counseling and I hide it from everyone but my mother and my non-family friends. I can name five family members off the top of my head, myself not included, who're mad as March hares.

Thank you SO MUCH for your advice and kindness. I wish you a happy weekend, full of gooey, warm desserts.

(No, I'm NOT projecting my wishes on others! :-D)