((((Greenleaves)))))

[January]

(((((((((((( Green )))))))))))))

You've received most sensible advice. Please follow it. We all care about you and not one single person here wants you to be sick.

Hugs,

Jan

I could be misremembering...

But I thought that you went in to see someone and they told you they were most likely benign, but they could do an ultrasound if you would like.

You wanted them to do that so they did, and they told you they were most likely benign. They said they would be more sure they were benign if they did a biopsy, but that since you were very low risk:

> I don't have any special risk factors for cancer.

They were probably benign. But you wanted them to do the biopsy and so they did the biopsy. Then the results came back inconclusive (because they messed up the biopsy somehow - happens sometimes) but they said that they were probably benign. But you wanted them to do another biopsy and now... They aren't getting back to you.

They are probably benign. The doctors have told you that already.

> If I do have fibroadenomas though, my risk for cancer doubles.

What is your risk of cancer without fibroadenomas?
What is your risk of cancer with fibroadenomas?

If you are talking about 40% risk without and 80% with then that is indeed a significant difference. If you are talking about 0.000001% risk without then doubling that risk isn't so very significant...

> I've read stories of people getting cancer in their twenties.

I've read about people getting hit by busses in their twenties and developing parkinsons and getting HIV. How many stories? Then consider how many other people in their twenties don't have cancer.

> I think the worse. I don't know how to change my thinking.

A therapist could show you how to change your thinking so that if you wanted to change your thinking (at times like these) you would be able to do that.

With medicine... With tests... They have to weigh the pros and cons. There are pros and cons for giving you a biopsy:

Pros
-If they are cancer and they find and treat them early then how many quality life years is that adding to your life?

Cons
-Since they will be inserting a needle (or two) into your breasts there is a chance that something will go wrong with that and you will get an infection and there is also the mental stress of having such a procedure.
-It is unlikely that you do have cancer (so the pro is most likely irrelevant)
-The procedure costs money both with respect to materials and with respect to specialists and lab technitions time. How many people are waiting on biopsies? How many of those people are at a significantly higher risk of having cancer?

Re the other cite... Yes I think I understand why they couldn't cope with this... It would be like... If I joined up to a site about HIV and said that I'd just had my first test and it came back negative but that I was terrified of having HIV because I've read about people my age getting HIV and I couldn't be sure I didn't have HIV until they had run the whole series of three tests because there is a margin of error... And if I found out I had HIV... then I'd likely kill myself.

It can come across as disrespectful to others who really do KNOW they have HIV. If I went there and was mostly supportive to others and posted a little about being scared that I had it people would probably be supportive to me... But people who are probably going to die sometime soonish aren't likely to want to spend much time dealing with me if I'm afraid of contracting HIV for the reasons I outlined above. They aren't likely to want to spend much time dealing with me (and they are going to feel upset indeed) if I'm talking of killing myself when they are fighting for their lives.

Therapy Deneb.

[darkeyes]

GL,
They would have not made you wait that long, believe me I've had so many mammo's,ultrasounds, and 3 friends,one died, the other 2 are survivors of cancer. I think you are overreacting and need attention.
Like others said, "relax". Try to fill time keeping your mind busy, even a job, I found it helped me get through those long waiting periods.
Oh, BTW, I've had plenty cysts removed,biopsies,aspirations, so I have a very good idea about worrying. I've had many experiences with cancer worries, of other parts of the body, many tests painful, bladder,uterine,endometrial,skin, etc. it's normal to be scared, and worried till the results are given, but no doc would wait 6 months to tell you.
I had to get mammos every 6 months, then back to once a year, yeah, I was worried, but I refuse to allow myself to obsess with that, for my life is more stressed and busy to sit and obsess with every little thing I may have.
It is still important to have yearly physicals, so I stick with that.
Please try to relax and stop obsessing, you'll only make yourself feel worse and falsely make yourself doomed.
Take care now,
DE

[drunksunflower]

GL, it seems to me that if there really was a problem they woul have got back to you with some urgency.

But someone worrying that they have cancer is not disrespectful at all.

My mum died from breast cancer. Her risk factors were smoking while being on the Pill in the 70s. So I'm fairly certain that I have no more risk factors than most. But she would want anyone who was scared about it to get some certain answer. It's much more disrespectful to diss someone who is worried about it. At least they are checking themselves and taking the necessary steps.

But if I were you, GL, I'd just want an answer. Keep pushing till you get one, but in the meantime think positive .... kia kaha ... be strong.

xx

I wasn't meaning to say that worrying about having cancer was disrespectful...

I just mean to say something about why she may have got the somewhat hostile reception (that she did) at an online cancer support group.

I'm not trying to diss her for wanting answers...

I'm just saying that the doctors thought the biopsy was an unnecessary procedure. Did you ask them how many people insist on biopsys in your position Deneb?

I don't know many doctors who are trigger happy to do procedures they consider unnecessary. Because of the risk of infection and the like...

They agreed to do it on Deneb's insistence... Then the results came back inconclusive and she is insisting on another one. If I understand correctly her insisting on a biopsy is actually AGAINST the doctors advice.

That being said... I'd probably get the procedure done too, just to check.

But... I'm not sure the problem is that you might have cancer (hence need an online cancer support cite) so much is the problem is that you are having difficulty turning your thoughts to more pleasant things (hence need a therapist to teach you how to do that).

Because there is a bit of a pattern...
I have nerve tremmors...
I have cancer
etc etc
When it gets to the point of requesting unnecessary procedures AGAINST doctors advice
(And getting into a panic worrying about whether one has condition x or condition y or whatever)
Then it is time for therapy sweetie.

[darkeyes]

special k,
That is all so true. Therapy, was huge help, when I literally thought I had cancer (many times) and even started making plans for funeral,what to have put on me, all those morbid thoughts.
Had I not sought a therapist, I'd continue to obsess, making my life and those around me miserable,unecessarily,
life is too short to be wasting time on obsessing with dieing, instead use this precious time on living.
GL, you are way too young to be ruining your life obsessing,either it's your health or your infatuations.
Enjoy, all that you can,if seeking therapy broadens this enjoyment, go for it.
It is good and important to take care of yourself,getting checkups, and living healthy, but please, live your life, don't clutter your mind with so much.
Take care now,
DE

[bebop]

[Greenleaves]

Special k,

It's always important to get any lump checked out, no matter what your age and what gender you are. The doctor first thought my lump was a cyst. Cysts are not cancerous. She recommended the ultrasound, I didn't say I wanted one.

The ultrasound showed it wasn't a cyst, but most likely a fibroadenoma. Ultrasounds cannot show whether cells are cancerous or not. I waited 6 months and my lump did not change and I was stilled worried so I got referred to a surgeon.

The surgeon said he could do a biopsy. I selected the fine needle biopsy because that's the least invasive kind. It didn't work out. I was very upset at the inconclusive results so my surgeon said I could get a core needle biopsy. I didn't go against any medical advice. The surgeon suggested the core needle biopsy. He knew about my fears and thought it best for me to have a biopsy.

I know I have to get the biopsy because I know I will continue to worry if I don't.

Fibroadenomas may or may not increase the risk of breast cancer. There are conflicting studies on that. I think the risk is small for me.

I don't feel guilty about using up medical resources to investigate my lumps. I would want anyone with a lump to get it properly investigated. With any solid tumor, there is the risk of it being malignant. Many people remove fibroadenomas because they often get bigger.

I realize now that I was being disrespectful when I wrote that I would rather kill myself than go through cancer treatments. I stopped doing that. People there were mostly annoyed with me because I kept writing about my fears. They didn't want to hear them over and over again. I think they picked on me after the suicide comments. They are supportive towards others who wrote about their fears.

[Greenleaves]

Darkeyes,

I was not waiting 6 months for test results. I waited 6 months because the doctors told me I didn't have cancer and I believed them. I read some more info on the net and then I started to worry. That is why I'm getting the biopsy.

Darkeyes, how were you able to not worry? Any trick? I just have to stay busy?

[Greenleaves]

Drunksunflower,

The people at the breast cancer support site all wanted me to pursue biopses. Many suggested that the best course of action would be to remove it. They all know how dangerous lumps can be. Some people were misdiagnosed at first when the ultrasound and mammograms didn't show anything. Several had normal biopsies, with the cancer only discovered after they removed their lump. It's scary stuff. Anything is possible. It's possible biopsies can miss the cancer.

> It's always important to get any lump checked out, no matter what your age and what gender you are.

Yes indeed, you did the right thing in going to get it checked out.

Thanks for explaining more about the process I think I'd only seen bits and pieces of it.

> I waited 6 months and my lump did not change and I was stilled worried so I got referred to a surgeon.

Okay. I guess I would have done the same thing.

> I was very upset at the inconclusive results so my surgeon said I could get a core needle biopsy.

Okay. Because you were upset? I guess there are two things we can do there... We can do the core needle biopsy to deal with the upset or we can use other coping strategies to deal with the upset... Preferably both.

> The surgeon suggested the core needle biopsy. He knew about my fears and thought it best for me to have a biopsy.

Yeah. Because that was what he could do to alleviate your fear. A therapist would have done something different (taught you coping strategies) to alleviate your fear.

> I know I have to get the biopsy because I know I will continue to worry if I don't.

I'm just wondering what the next health scare is going to be...

> I don't feel guilty about using up medical resources to investigate my lumps.

I wasn't trying to induce you to feel guilty. I was just saying that that is a medical consideration that is factored in to whether you get hurried through the procedure or not. Given that your risk is low and there are limited resources they need to prioritise.

> I realize now that I was being disrespectful when I wrote that I would rather kill myself than go through cancer treatments.

Yeah. Other people going through cancer treatments... Probably wish they were dead instead of having to do the cancer treatments too. They are probably trying to put those thoughts out of their mind and focus on getting through and coming out the other side okay. You saying you would rather be dead... I know it doesn't imply this... But they probably read you as saying that they would be better off dead than going through the treatments like they were doing. They are going to feel upset... I guess it isn't so much disrespectful... Sorry, I shouldn't have used that term. It is more that it is insensitive to how they are likely to feel in response to your posts.

> People there were mostly annoyed with me because I kept writing about my fears. They didn't want to hear them over and over again.

Because if they let themselves get caught up in those fear cycles then they would probably become clinically depressed and / or kill themselves. They want to try and focus on some of the good and kindness in life most probably.

> I think they picked on me after the suicide comments. They are supportive towards others who wrote about their fears.

Did you notice any difference in the way you wrote about your fears compared to the way that others wrote about their fears? Did the people who receive support tend to give support as well?

Did you give support Deneb, or did you just go and start posting about your fears?

[Greenleaves]

There were plenty of people who wrote about their fears and didn't give support, but the people there were happy to support them. They didn't post about their fears over and over again like I did.

I mostly posted my fears at first. I didn't give a lot of support. After the first time I got ostracized, I posted a lot more to other, but it was too late. People already got a bad impression of me. Plus I continued to post a lot when I was supporting others.

[darkeyes]

I have had that same thing, 6 months no cancerous type showings in mammos and ultrasounds, be sure to come back again in 6 months, they would actualy chart the mammos, to see if any of the cysts/fibros/calcifications showed any changes.
Yeah, I was worried, why are they amking me repeat mammos every 6 months vs once a year? Heck, I thought I was gooing to hear that "C" word, then after discussions, with the doc and specialists, I learned about my condition. I had several kinds of "lumps" removed, one I got scared when I saw that nervous look on the docs eyes, after the solid mass couldn't be aspirated for there was no fluid, it was a solid lump, they told me I couldn't put off having the biopsy and removal, so I got up the courage to go with it, I felt so relieved when I awoke and was assured it was just a lump, no cancer. I am proned to lumps, since I had a child and got "old" I do not get that, if so not as often as when I was young.
I spent almost a whole summer in and out of minor surgeries on both breasts for sebaceous type cysts (they related it to my acne stage in life)though they were superficial,unlike the deep lump I never realized existed,these still were scarey, and then worst of all they would get absessed near the suture sites, it was a mess of a summer, way back in 80 - 1981.
The lump one was in 91, that was more scarey cause of it's size,feel,and just the docs reactions, I felt that was a serious one.
Hang in there, GL, I'm sure all will be fine. Do you have a job? If not try to get one or do volunteer work, it helps take your mind away for a bit.
My world is so crazy, I do not get time to dwell on my physical stuff, but do not neglect it either.
It seems you need to try to channel your energies into something productive, even housework helps, sounds funny, I know, but it can.
BTW
When I last had the scare of breast cancer, 2000 - 2001, I had said out of fear, that I wouldn't go through chemo or anything, to my former T., he said that was foolish, after being "really" scared I considered if I needed it I would go for it, for the love I have for my son and family means too much to leave, so if there would ever be something that can keep me from leaving them, I'd do it.
One never knows how valuable life is till you lose a loved one, which I have, and have come to realize life is a precious gift, don't waste it.
Take care now,
DE

> They didn't post about their fears over and over again like I did.

Yeah.

> After the first time I got ostracized, I posted a lot more to other, but it was too late.

I think maybe you just gave up too soon ;-)
It can take a bit of time for people to notice a change in pattern... Or they think we will only do it for a little bit and then revert...

DBT would really help you Deneb. It wouldn't change you but you could learn skills that you could choose to implement if you so desired. Skills so that you can understand what kinds of things you can do so you can elicit more meaningful connections with others. Skills so that you can manage your distress better if you would like to do that.

Therapy doesn't change you. It is just supposed to help teach you stuff so that you have more options instead of just playing out past cycles without understanding what went wrong.

DBT has a supportive therapy component to it as well. It can be great to talk to t's 'cause they can help us feel cared about :-) Like how sometimes you have great discussions with your p-doc.

Yeah... I wonder if this seems scarey now 'cause you don't have much else to keep you occupied...

[Greenleaves]

Darkeyes,

It sounds like you've been through a lot. How old were you when all this happened? Surely the doctors couldn't have been that worried because of your age. My doctors don't seem the least bit worried.

Did your biopsies hurt? Did you have a core needle biopsy? Or an excisional?

I don't have a job right now. I need something to do.

[Greenleaves]

Special k,

I didn't give up giving support. The moderator still decided to kick me off the site. She said it was because the site was for breast cancer survivors and their loved ones. I think it's because a lot of people wanted me off the site.

I don't know if I'm ready for DBT yet. I'll check out regular counselling.

[Greenleaves]

I get really angry now whenever I go back to the breast cancer support board. I should really stop going there. I'm not very good at accepting the fact that I can't have everything go the way I want it to. It's difficult for me to accept that I've been banned there.

It doesn't feel quite so bad as a block, but it's still very unpleasant. I feel really angry. I have to stay away. I think I'm going to be compensating by posting a lot the next several days.

[PasDeDeux]

Hi I am sorry you are so afraid. I have been afraid when I wanted an answer and had to wait. I think you are doing the right thing by demanding to know what your lumps show. Why wait and regret it. I do NOT think you have cancer not at all but I DO hear your fear and you need to have someone, mom, dad, husband, boyfriend, sister SOMEONE help you deal with this. I think you are asking for support for your fear and what to do until you get your answers and many here seem to care about you. I do not see how dbt will help you on this. Just see your regular doctor asap and keep very busy until then. Good luck and again I am sorry you are so frightened

[(JD)]

Fear is a terrible thing, for any reason. (((hugs)))) Greenleaves, regardless of whether this is the big C or not... you can improve your mental health by calming yourself more... frustration is well.. frustrating!!! BUT totally stressing out won't help, in fact, it can make you sicker.

If you can find time to calm and relax and think soothing thoughts of self care... and even visualizing those lumps disappearing (no matter what they are made of!) that would be beneficial to you.

On a side note, I doubt that the other sites would know how to help you, or understand you even if you told them you are also suffering with a mental illness You know, sometimes you overwhelm us here, and there's no better group of members than at PC! We forget that not all sites are as kind, until we go somewhere else. TC it wasn't all you.

[darkeyes]

Age I started with problems was about 18, though I always would get that hormonal,monthly lumpiness and soreness, during that "time of the month".
I have had biopsies,core,aspirations, I stated some of that in my replies to your post, take a look at them.
At around 18, I had been in and out for the superficial cysts, re-read my previous posts, please, so I do not end up repeating myself, no one likes to read someone saying the same old stuff over and over.
I was about 28 when company physical doc, noticed the lump, told me to see my gyn and then they referred me to a surgeon. I had it finally removed at age 30.
I was going to have a baby (29 going on 30) and then had to be moving, so that is why I waited till 30.
he "real lump" was unable to be aspirated, and like I mentioned before, several doc's concerns and look of nervousness was enough to convince me to go in, and just have it removed regardless, many doc's knowing my problem with breast cysts,etc. always suggested that with these kind of cysts.
The ones that appear on my mammos have been charted, which I think I previously mentioned too, they are called calcifications, not uncommon with woman in my age group (49) and have a history of breast cysts.
I always have to go for yearly mammos to keep an eye for any abnormal developments.
Most teenage and young woman, need not a worry, unless there is a history of breast cancer in your family.
On the other hand it is good at certain ages to have mammos, most gps and gyn's will advise a young woamn when.
Again stop over worrying, if you want the biopsy get it, and and if they are going to do that they usually remove the lump, too! Try to have some faith in the medical association, and what some are telling you.
Take care,
DE

[Greenleaves]

Are all lumps easily distinguishable from normal tissue?

I don't know for sure that my new lump is a lump. I feel it more when I'm all soaped up. My Mom just felt it and said it was a rib. I don't think it's a rib. I'm scared. What does my Mom know anyways, she's not a doctor.

I'm scared. I'm thinking of going to the doctor again. I'm going to bring some lotion with me this time so it can be felt better.

I'm a little afraid the doctor will think I'm crazy. I don't trust the ultrasound that didn't show anything.

My Mom just felt me again with the lotion, she said she didn't find anything. Am I just imagining things? She said the "lump" I felt is all over my breast, she said what I'm feeling *are* my breasts. Maybe she's right. My breasts are pretty small. Maybe the lump *is* my breast.

I dunno. Should I still go to the doctor?

[Sujin]

Hi Greenleaves,

If I were you I would still go to the doctor, just to rule anything out. Also to put your mind at rest. I understand your fear and frustration at not being able to get any answers. I hope you get your appointment and get everything settled, then you can rest easy.

Best Wishes,
Zen/Sujin

[Greenleaves]

The surgeon's office is open tomorrow. Wish me luck in getting an appointment for the core needle biopsy!

[drunksunflower]

I think you should go if at all possible. Just to rule it out.

Good luck girl