Narcissistic traits?

I came across an article that I can definitely relate to:

Psychotherapy with a Narcissistic Patient Using Kohut's Self Psychology Model

But there’s this divide between the psychiatrist/writer and the patient. Do you think it would help if the therapists gave information like this to the client so then both parties are operating off a (somewhat similar) intellectual understanding? OK, they know that we do our own research, too. But we don’t know what they know as well as vice versa.

Also, I have/had PDNOS, not all-out NPD, and my world (and psyche) collapsed after my husband died. The article helps to explain to me why that happened. Seems like it would have been nice if somebody (professionals whom I consulted) had seen that happening, or coming? – but that didn’t happen.

So, it looks like the mental health profession recognizes that there are people in the population with certain kinds of problem (PD’s) and the people are increasingly recognizing it, too. If we can get so far as to talk about ourselves in these anonymous internet forums, do you think we could do it in a self-help group like DBSA, for instance, which is for depression and bipolar? Yes, I know it could be hard because we have PD’s and don’t get along well with others. Still . . . maybe we can learn?

Wow. Thanks for that article. I react very much like Michael, with my T's. I've made very similar comments to my T's.

I was especially impressed with this paragraph.

and this one .. Maybe some in the field do get NPD's. And it's always encouraging to hear stories of people making progress.

I like the fact that Michael wasn't portrayed as a demon that everyone needed to avoid, but rather as basically a man with issues that wanted help. Sure, he struggled, and caused problems, but he also had some insights and desire to change. It is interesting and rather sad that he never followed through on his desire to connect with his children. Maybe, as he got help, he got better in that area, also.

I just noticed that there is an editor's note in the pdf version that makes it clear that "All cases presented in the series 'Psychotherapy Rounds' are composites constructed to illustrate teaching and learning points, and are not meant to represent actual persons in treatment."

I'm trying to decide if I should print it off, and take to my T....

That was a very interesting article. I wonder if many narcissists become alcoholics or addicts?

I had a therapist who finally told me he had NPD and he had also been a heroin addict.
It got so our sessions became gradually about me helping him. He was the first one to explain to me how my "empathy" was an attraction, he told me not to interact with PC because I would end up "giving" too much to others and I needed to focus more on myself.

Reading this article helped me understand how someone with PTSD can get misdiagnosed as narcissistic though. The "need" for empathy and "safety" is similar in therapy too. I had a wonderful mother who loved me, but I can see how without that a child can grow up with NPD challenges.

What I have noticed about people who have narcissistic tendencies nearing being "disordered" is that they get very uncomfortable "empathizing", perhaps they can "imitate" it but they don't really empathize. Very rarely do they give "hugs", it is sometimes even offensive to them. To hug them physically is very different than getting a genuine heartfelt hug from them.

I think that it is important to understand how these individuals develop and for perspective parents to understand that and learn how to keep it from happening. I fear for all the children that grow up in day cares while their mothers have careers and the contact needed is not there for them. I see the difference in these children all the time, sad that the parents "don't".

OE

Wow, that therapist sounds scary to me, like he wanted to keep all your empathy for himself? But maybe that’s not how it was for you. Did you feel OK with sessions where it got to be about you helping him?

It’s my experience that most people, even therapists, have a hard time empathizing with the reality of the experience of someone “trapped” in – let me say - a “self-absorption” situation. That's one of the main reasons that I posted the link, because it seemed like that particular author, a psychiatrist, did understand.

So it upsets me, for instance, that your concern remains more about how people with NPD can’t empathize with people who don’t have it. My experience is that most therapists couldn’t empathize with me when I tried to get below a surface level.

On the other hand, if your therapist had NPD and hadn’t been able to get past it and was trying to treat people, doesn’t that sound like a problem for the profession and its ability to regulate itself? Or for people WITH the disorders to actually find help?

I was never diagnosed with NPD, as I said, and was more like someone with OCPD before I broke down. Eventually diagnosed with PDNOS and DDNOS. My therapist would have preferred to diagnose “Complex PTSD” but that wasn’t available in the DSM at the time. May still not be, I don’t know.

It’s my view that most of us who have PD’s, or have had them, developed them as a way to cope with underlying unresolved/unresolvable trauma. Without some empathy and understanding about that, somewhere in the society, we are all going to be in deep s*** in my view. But, as someone wrote in another thread, mine seems to be a minority view.

I agree completely. One of my beefs with the mental health profession is that they seemed to want to get me to think about today, without doing a thorough history, or helping me deal with the unresolved trauma, and even worse, some of them downplayed what happened, like they thought I was making too big a deal of it, and my perceptions were skewed.. It was maddening.

I think what I really wanted/needed was a parental figure who would get angry with me, for me, at the poor treatment I got, and do what a caring parent would do... get angry, and bring those who had abused me to justice!

It's sad and almost a little funny that the 1st therapist I saw back in 1989 (I was 23), did do those things.. but, because she also tried to get me to "recover" some memories, she made things worse.... maybe part of it was also just just the fact that dealing with the pain of reliving that trauma was more than I could deal with at the time.. anyway, I attempted suicide, and never saw her again.. Every other counselor I've seen since then has downplayed the trauma.

I fantasize about getting in touch with her again... It might take some doing, but I might be able to figure out her name... and see if she is still around. She was also the only female counselor I ever had.... maybe I should try to find another female T.

I think it's really wild that I made these exact same comments to my T..

This also sounds very much like the way I act... Some of it sounds very much like things I have done.. other parts are what I think, but don't express to anyone.

Here is another interesting article from the same journal.. Demystifying Paradoxical Characteristics of Narcissistic Personality Disorder

From the article.. ouch.

here today,

Depending on who you see for a diagnosis, that specialist may "misdiagnose" you with NPD, instead of correctly diagnosing you with PTSD or complex PTSD, although complex PTSD is not a DSM diagnosis and just falls under PTSD. Some of "victim mentality" from abuse or a great loss can present as being self absorbed and angry and even forward, "wanting to be seen, but not wanting to be seen" is more about a "victim mentality" than a true NPD trait.

To answer your question about the therapist I saw for a while, I did not know he had NPD. I had seen a psychiatrist when I broke down at a psych ward that was "Indian" (from India) and spoke with a heavy accent. He failed to recognize the clear red flags I was expressing that said "trauma patient" and diagnosed me with narcissistic instead. When I questioned that with this therapist I mentioned he told me he knew for a "fact" that was wrong and explained to me that "he" had NPD and that I was way too empathetic to have NPD. He had quite a bit of therapy and also went to college to become a psychologist. However, as time went on I began to realize I was starting to
tend to his needs too much and I really was not there for "him" and he was having some big problems with his life, too much for PTSD me to have to deal with.

The therapist I have now has also explained to me "why" unfortunately people with PTSD can be misdiagnosed with NPD. He also explained to me that another problem is that many of the psychiatrists are coming from that part of the world and "yes" their cultural beliefs are very different and they are not "culturally" sensitive enough to correctly see the diagnosis of PTSD verses NPD in someone like me.

I did have yet another psychiatrist "correctly" diagnose me with PTSD and said that I had been a very misunderstood person. I wish he had explained that better to me as was finally explained to me later on.

What concerns me about someone having the wrong diagnoses of NPD verses PTSD is that with PTSD the patient self blames way too much already so they certainly don't need to add this wrong sense that they are something "bad" or wrong when PTSD has nothing to do with being abusive or bad to others and more about "self protecting" habits that stem from a trauma or experiencing abuse. Actually, the person suffering with PTSD needs to develop some "healthy" narcissism because there is such a thing as healthy narcissism too. All human beings have to have "some" narcissism to thrive. It becomes a
"disorder" when there is excess to the point where it harms the person and others around them and negatively affects their life.

It is very important that a psychologist or psychiatrist "wait" and see a patient long enough to understand the "history" of the patient instead of making "quick" observations and conclusions based on some of the symptoms a patient may be exhibiting. My therapist has told me that unfortunately "trauma" patients often get misdiagnosed because of how the specialists really do not understand the "red flags of trauma". My therapist "specializes" in working with patients that suffer from PTSD, and he told me that all his PTSD patients exposed to the psychiatrist that misdiagnosed me were also misdiagnosed by him too, which only further confused and traumatized them too. I have been told by professionals that know the psychiatrist I saw that he is a "jerk" and should not be in the position he is in.

I am not trying to diagnose anyone here, just sharing what I have learned. I think it is important that a patient have the correct diagnosis and get the right treatment for their true diagnosis.

All I know is that any NPD'd individuals that I have been exposed to did not empathize and people, children and animals were all just "things" to them to manipulate and control for "their own benefit" and were easily discarded if they failed to do so. They don't want to listen to the pain of a rape victim, they would rather see a stripper and they only value someone if they have something they want or can benefit from knowing, otherwise they can't be bothered. Those are the ones I have come across that stood out to me anyway.

OE

What you are describing sounds consistent with the DSM criteria. But there's an underlying . . . something else in your writing. Are you saying that if they don't/can't have empathy for you then you won't/can't have empathy for them?

Here's the first line of the article again:

"According to Kohut's self psychology model, narcissistic psychopathology is a result of parental lack of empathy during development. Consequently, the individual does not develop full capacity to regulate self esteem. "

Don't you see the problem here? No one is saying that YOU need to have empathy for people whom you think may have NPD. But the psychiatrist said that it was part of what HE needed in order to help people with NPD.

I have also heard that "true" NPD's don't even like children. I exhibit all of the other traits of NPD, but I love my 5 year old. I just love the little things he does. I love to see the world through his eyes. He's just a cool little kid.

And I've never harmed animals. I think our 2 cats are cool creatures. But I have been in situations that make it obvious that my needs come before those around me, including kids and animals.

No, I am not saying that. The message I got from the therapist that admitted he suffered from NPD explained to me that because I am so empathetic I have to be careful because had he not gotten help he would have taken advantage of that in me. I was struggling so much with the PTSD at the time and so confused about that, that when I began to see how he was "needing my empathy" I became too uncomfortable.

On top of that he told me that he had also been a heroin addict and that he had been a habitual liar. He was on a medication to help him with the heroin addiction, he had gone through therapy and as I mentioned studied psychology to become a therapist himself.
That was a tremendous amount for me to take in considering the condition I was in at the time.

shakespear47, if you have PTSD, you can appreciate children and your cats, but can be self absorbed and very needy at times that is not the same as NPD. The individuals that I have met with NPD are very manipulative and they don't empathize or "care". Do you enjoy cuddling your child? Did you cuddle your child when he was a baby? The ones I have come across were just not affectionate, however liked affection/adoration given to them.

When I read that article the "empathy" needed by a therapist is the same empathy needed for a "trauma patient" too. A trauma patient that suffered abuse can develop into struggling with intimacy, not the same as NPD. NPD is more like, "give it to me" and whatever they give has a price, it isn't just for the sake of the "giving and caring". You are "wonderful" if you are giving to them and pleasing them, and worthless or bad if you say "no" or "need" and if you do not worship the NPD person, you are a horrible person and should be black listed by everyone and they "want" to see you suffer, it is pleasing to them. It is very different from a victim pointing at an abuser and saying how bad the abuser is.

If you show your home that "you" like to a very narcissistic person, they will have no problem with saying, "this is not what I like" and not even see how the person who has that home is proud of it and likes it and happens to like the way it looks etc. However, when they show you their home you better make sure you tell them how beautiful it is.

It would make sense that a therapist would have to be empathetic, it's the only way in with NPD isn't it? Oddly, that is also true for a victim of abuse or a trauma patient with PTSD.

I just find it interesting to see the similarities and how that can lead to a misdiagnoses.

As a result, I think it is very important that a therapist take the time "empathetically" to see the individual's history before considering "any" diagnoses. Someone with PTSD is already on the run and angry and "sensitive", no need to make it worse.

shakespheare, narcissists love their children when their children are a source of an item the parent gets "adored" from. I need my child to "win" so people will see me as having the "best". If "my" child didn't win then something is very "wrong". I have seen horses get ground into the ground simply to make sure "my child wins" in parents. I have seen mothers have drag down fights out of their need to have "their child" be the star. Or even a horse get literally poisened so that a parent's child can have an advantage over another child (mine). That was not enough and when this parent was told "no" by this particular trainer she threatened to do the same to the horse they owned too.

I didn't think about NPD back then tbh, but I sure saw a lot of it. So, yes, sitting across from a therapist that is admitting "he" was one? Yes, that was "creepy" and while I learned some things from him, it is nothing I would recommend for a PTSD patient struggling to understand why they are struggling so much.

OE

I feel like I'm in a catch 22 now. LOL . I could describe myself in ways that make it obvious that I do have NPD, based on the criteria, what I've been told by other NPD's, and the 2 scholarly articles that are linked in this thread. But, I don't want to be a pwNPD... so, I'm not going to. I prefer to think of myself as an INTJ, who has NPD traits.(I might even have more BPD traits than NPD traits, I don't know...) I will say that I use people. I'm arrogant and self-aggrandizing, I exaggerate my own abilities, I have grandiose thoughts, I take advantage, I'm all about getting attention, etc. etc. etc.... I have all the traits of someone with NPD. But, I also have a lot of insight into my behaviors... I feel distress and embarrassment when I recall my behavior.
I've read a little about narcissistic supply. And it depresses me. I really don't want to think about it much.

I ended up in a psych ward because those around me got tired of my behaviors and let me know about it by playing the same mind games on me, that I had on them. I've suffered a lot of painful backlash from people that react to my behaviors.

I want to get better because it's painful to think about all this. .And I don't want to end up in a psych ward again. Even my desire to get better is selfish.

It helps me to think of the abuse I suffered as an innocent child as what helped make me the person I am today. Maybe there is a good core down there somewhere.... It's certainly worth exploring.

I have an idea of what happens to people when they define themselves by their NPD. It ain't pretty. But, perhaps Sam Vaknin is an exception.

I’m wondering if there is a way to develop a way of understanding things which includes everybody in our definition of what it is to be human?

I’m suggesting that many people who have personality disorders also have PTSD or complex PTSD. It’s not a matter of distinguishing between the two – both can exist at the same time. And yes more careful diagnoses could help a lot of people.

Perhaps that would help you, Open Eyes? To see your former T not as the person with NPD he became at one point as an adult but as the wounded, traumatized child he probably also had been? But also, the creepy feeling is something we all need, to warn us when we need to pay attention to something, to avoid being hurt or used. Sounds like you didn't get hurt or used, which is good.

For what it’s worth, my opinion is that Sam Vaknin bought in to the public view of NPD and used it to get approval and attention. Not that he did that entirely “consciously”. It was just something (or the best) he could do with the situation he found himself in at the time, according to what people believed about NPD at the time. One of the characteristics of people with NPD is that they depend on the outside environment to define them. That’s because empathy is needed for a child to develop a sense of who they are, from the inside.

Well, for me.. when I read about PTSD... I think I did suffer from everything below at one time...
but, it's like I moved on...

Seeing my parents fight all the time... seeing my dad actually beat my mother. Being sexually abused... being subject to repeated verbal abuses... yeah.. there were definite Stressors that qualify for Criterion A. I can also see Criteron D. and Criterion E and Criterion H.

But I don't know that I exhibit criterion B, or criterion C, or criterion F, or criterion G... at least not anymore. But, I don't know..... perhaps I'm just not thinking clearly about those criteria.

It's worth exploring.... and my T has mentioned my PTSD symptoms in the past...

I'm starting to work on a theory that perhaps if people who were badly traumatized as children don't get the help they need when they are children or young adults.. then it is possible that they will move past PTSD traits and into NPD and/or BPD traits as adults.

And, I further think it's a sad state of affairs that people have nothing but compassion for those suffering from PTSD (at least that is my general perception), but nothing but contempt for those with NPD traits... Like we decided to be who we are... Sometimes these things are caused by circumstance that are beyond our control.

And yes, I realize I am responsible for my actions..

Here's a taste of what its like to be an INTJ... There are benefits, and drawbacks...

Very interesting shakespheare. That sounds like my father tbh. But my father would "not" do anything dishonest. He was always reading and not too many people could tell him something he didn't know. He rigged his whole sailboat so he could sail it alone, he would sit there and work it all out in his mind about how he could achieve different things that would be easier to control. I was his favorite, the only child that could sit and talk to him, but that came at a price. He would constantly stop me in mid sentence and correct my vocabulary, I know he meant well, but by his doing that I began to struggle to talk, to be able to get my thoughts into words. I slowly helped myself with that gradually by reading aloud "by myself" so I talk better, but I did struggle for a long time. What I always liked about my father is he was very interesting to talk to, I had to learn how to talk to him, most people fail at that, as he can get bored easily.

I did not have inability to remember key features of the trauma that developed into PTSD though. However, since I was not able to talk about it right away and held so long in my lawsuit, I began to disassociate and struggle with my executive brain functions. I stumbled across PC and it seemed to be the only thing that helped me work on that, but it was so hard.

While you think people suffering from PTSD get compassion, well, they don't, often they get treated badly actually.

"Persistent distorted blame of self or others for causing the traumatic event or for resulting consequences." quoted from what you posted

It is not always distorted, not the way one would think. It is not as though what someone did wrong to cause injury is not "real" or "truth". What I would have to say is "anger, sense of loss, frustration, grief, sense of threat" can be distorted into being so magnified that it is emotionally unmanagable. That is the "just" that most who suffer feel they can't seem to do that causes them to become very frustrated and even at times irritable or tired and depressed. The excutive part of the brain struggles to figure that out constantly and gets overworked. You can see this a lot when the PTSD is very active by how posters leave out words or repeat thought patterns. What I liked about PC is that I could review anything I posted to see how my executive part was working or "not so good". I have been a member since March of 2011 and had a lot of challenges IRL at the same time, it's been a lot of work and very time consuming to see how all of what I was experiencing that was "further" traumatizing me was affecting my executive abilities. I was seriously suicidal that year yet people at PC didn't know that, yet I was lucky to come across a vet here who explained to me how these suicidal waves would come, but also dissipate. That lasted for 6 or 7 months until it finally eased up.

Yes there is definitely a negative stigma that comes with NPD. However, some people who are NPD are more dangerous and abusive than others, for example, your father beat your mother. I think there is a spectrum and I think more has to be learned about it tbh.
Not all NPD individuals had a challenging childhood, some were spoiled rotten and the world just revolves around them, they were taught to think that way. A young adult drives up to a horse show in a mercedes, her horse is all spiffed up and tuned up for her to go in and win, she comes out, jumps of her mega expensive horse, hands it to the groom and is off. Yet, she would not really know how to ride her way out of a paper bag and if the horse fails, surely it is the horses fault. What she doesn't realize or even care to realize is that what she spends for that to happen, when all must bow down to her, is that after she exits a sigh of relief takes place and her money makes it possible for others to keep on "really learning to ride and be in the know".

I liked that information on INTJ personality, thanks for sharing. I had not heard of that one, very interesting.

Do you suffer from a lot of anxiety?

You may have a larger hypo campus to where you did not develop full blown PTSD too.
When you have PTSD, you don't just blow past it, it tends to nail you to the floor and beat you up quite a bit and as I mentioned, challenge the executive funtioning in your frontal lobe.

OE

Just realized I fit a whole lot of the criterion for PTSD. Heh, maybe that explains where ny NPD traits diagnosis comes from.

Gah, I am so sick of editing because I've missed words lol

As far as INTJ goes... how we define ourselves has a huge influence on how we act and relate to the world.... I would much rather define myself by my personality type while working on some traits of certain personality disorders.

INTJ's in general don't feel a lot of anxiety... on the contrary, we can be intimidating because we seem so unflappable. I do feel a little anxious at times when thinking about social situations (before and after) but it's becoming less of a problem, and I consider that to be part of my BPD traits.

Some of the cognitive problems you mention concerning PTSD sound very similar to the problems pwBPD traits experience.

For the most part, I function very well in society. I suspect people notice some odd mannerisms and some social awkwardness. And some of that is learned behavior from my parents, as well. Read my "So, I tried to take over a small town thread", and you'll see how I can go over the top at times with arrogance and self-aggrandizing. I've given up thinking I can be part of a social group like Rotary or some committee. I just cause too many problems, and I literally do not know how to work together with people toward some goal. But, not everyone is cut out for such groups.

I've read a little about NPD, so I understand that some develop the traits even though they didn't experience a traumatic experience, but rather because their parents spoiled them rotten... But, even that is hardly the child's fault. And I remember the case of a young man who grew up on in a very wealthy home, and appeared to have been spoiled, but his mother also insisted on bathing him and decided what clothes he would wear well into his high school years. That is definitely abuse, and he was diagnosed with NPD.

As far as this quote "Persistent distorted blame of self or others for causing the traumatic event or for resulting consequences." - I took this to mean that sometimes the victims blame themselves for being molested or sexually abused as children (or whatever traumatic event that was experienced).. and that is clearly distorted thinking. No one would blame the child, but, sometimes the victims do blame themselves.

Anyway.. I run my own business, but I have a hard time "keeping an even keel" as it were. It's either all or nothing. I'm either working really hard, or doing almost nothing.. I'm either bragging, or feeling bad about myself for bragging. It's really hard to think clearly about little ways to get better, or little ways to make the business better... I can do it, I have done it. But, it's something I struggle with. Lately, I'm having a hard time motivating myself. And that's one of the reasons I decided to get back into therapy. Another reason was so I can continue to do better in social situations (and the backlash from trying to over a small town has motivated me to get help). I also love to be the center of attention, and tend to take control of conversations, if people will let me.

I did have a panic attack the other day... My heart was racing... I talked to my T about it and worked out what it was probably about. I don't get then very often, and no one around me would even realize it if I had had one in their presence.

I thought of a few benefits of having NPD traits... I think we would make great comedians. Think about it. Your act could be all about you...

Or even great storytellers. I fantasize about performing on the Moth Radio Hour.

"As far as this quote "Persistent distorted blame of self or others for causing the traumatic event or for resulting consequences." - I took this to mean that sometimes the victims blame themselves for being molested or sexually abused as children.. and that is clearly distorted thinking. No one would blame the child, but, sometimes the victims do blame themselves. " quote shakespheare

Yes, self blame can be significant.

While I did have big challenges in my childhood, I was loved and experienced "empathy".
I can see how if that was absent, it could definitely challenge development of understanding "empathy".

In my situation I saw my older brother bullied/abused/punished for something he could not help. I believe he suffered from "compulsive ADHD" and it was very hard for him to sit still and listen and my parents were told by a psychiatrist to not "coddle him" at all but to enforce a lot of "discipline" instead. That "discipline" got out of control because it only made him worse. My mother would pace the floors uttering, "This is wrong a mother is supposed to cuddle and love her child", her instincts were correct, the advice given at the time was "very wrong and damaging".

I was my brothers only "friend" it was horrible to witness how badly he was consistantly treated "on the bus, in school, and at home". While I was his "only" friend who showed him caring and empathy, it was dangerous for me as he would get so much abuse that he would "rage" and then I had to run and "hide". I never told because I felt it would put him over the edge and the punishment would only get worse. It was so bad my brother was a major bet wetter and he was so stressed he would suck his thumb feverishly all night long making his lips swell and blister and bleed. The children on the bus called him
"big lips", oh it was so horrible.

I have always had a lot of empathy for others who struggle, a deep desire to "help" and even a deep desire to figure out the puzzle of "whys" behind behavior problems. After literally "years" of abuse my parents finally found an amazing older woman to tutor him and that "understanding woman" changed him and had a tremendous positive affect on him. That further inspired me tbh. I never labeled people with NPD tbh, I didn't think about it that way at all. It just got so I would learn about certain people who no matter how nice, empathetic or caring I was, the person would only "use me or manipulate me" in some way with not a care at all.

My older brother learned "empathy" from me and he became a very "loving" father because of it, however, I don't think he every connected "why" he "could" and "how" he came to understand "empathy".

"I also love to be the center of attention, and tend to take control of conversations, if people will let me. " quote shakespheare

My husband is like this all the time. However, that is part of his "compulsive ADHD", he talks over, intrudes, interrupts and can be loud. It has been very hard to live with him with this PTSD that creates extreme "sensitivity".

What has been so bazaar to me it how I have dealt with this "disorder/disability" pretty much "all my life".

I find that what many do not seem to understand is that "narcissim" is something we all have to have to thrive. One "can" examine anyone and see some "narcissitic traits". When someone presents with PTSD, they become very "self absorbed" and can seem to be "Narcissists", however, PTSD is so incredibly consuming that it is very different than
NPD that stems from other personal histories where "empathy" was not learned and developed.

quoted from other information: "responds empathically to the needs and concerns of others, despitetheir own injury. That is and has always been "me".

If someone were to consider my own input here at PC from when I joined? What would be observed is a lot of "input" and posting and yes, even helping others a lot. That could be "misunderstood" for being narcissistic or even needing to take over to be the center of attention right? Well, that would be truly the wrong way to look at it because of how I was trying so hard to get my executive frontal lobe to function better. I would sit at the key board battling so much anxiety and trying to slow down and concentrate with "read, think, reply" and use my frontal lobe and much of what I wrote was long and "racing" and at times "repetitive". It was the "only" outlet I had where I could work on that challenge too. And part of the need to explain in depth was because of the "years" of living with a person who "didn't listen, talked over me, interrupted me, and hurry up say it because I have to move now" which is the "compulsive" element of ADHD.

I think that "before" making a conclusion about "NPD" it is extremely important to consider someones "history" and understand their environment too.

I think it is "great" that you made the decision to figure out where you could make changes as you have "challenges". I think that how you are learning "more" about yourself and have access to a therapist that can be "empathetic" is very good too.
Yes, a NPD label has a very "negative" stima in society. In "reality" it is a lot more "complex" than the average person realizes too. Unfortunately, there are many who can see someone who struggles and just decide to label that person with NPD too, when the reality of that persons "psychological challenges" doesn't have anything to do with NPD.
Last I have heard, the diagnoses of NPD may even be taken out of the DSM manual, and instead these "traits" be broken down into other catagories.

OE

INTJ here too. And high IQ., with all the traits. And telepathic. PTSD is child's play by comparison...I know seeing someone having a stroke or a night terror was every bit as terrifying and traumatic as being pretty sure I was going to get my face smashed. Empathy and telepathy hurt me more than fear for my physical safety. And the idea of a torture state...

Now here's the thing. Even of you objectively are high IQ and sensitive intuitive ans empathic and telepathic, for you to say It is VERY narcissistic. It's superiorious and elitist and claiming special skills and status and exceptionalism...and its just bad!

Which is why I am the alpha narcissist. In spite of perhaps not being a real narcissist at all. Oh, woe is me for being the only one in this singular.situation...

I'm back up to 20 mg on the Prozac.

LOL, yes I could see that and many comedians do make their acts all about themselves.

Do you have a favorite comedian? One of my favorites is Robin Williams. I think Robin Williams has compulsive ADHD hense his love of cocaine in that stimulants make a wound up person feel calm. I thought John Belushi was very funny too, too bad he OD'd.