[marmaduke]

Like underground said he is wired differently.
I not a narcissist not wired differently, so my crappy upbring 'just' damaged a normal psyche. Depression OCD social phobia etc.

My sister was born a narcissist like mother, and her crappy upbringing exacerbated her PD turned her onto a demanding loud entitled graniose manipulative drama queen and quite the monster.

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[hazn]

Thanks guys and girls

I think we ought to follow the Norwegians and consider narcissism a trait and not a disorder. People spend entirely too much time trying to understand people who think themselves narcissists when it's a personally trait that we all posses. They aren't unique. I mean its like being intrigued by allergy sufferers - we all sneeze. This is coming from the daughter of a so called narcissist. Stop giving them the attention they crave, as I did, and be amazed by their immediate loss of power.

I used to harp on my dad being a narcissist because it was comforting to know a condition that seemed to be beyond his control was to blame for his inability to parent. Then I did some research and sat with myself. I realized that npd was for me easier to swallow than the fact that my father made a choice to be what he was (and still is) to me. Right then I cut his supply. It's been three years almost and he still comes sniffing around for attention and affirmation from me when his latest victim wises up and jumps ship. I put my hand up and direct him to look elsewhere, he always tries again. It's never about me and always about him needing validation and affirmation. However, non narcissists hold the most power because we give narcissists significantion. When we take that away, we render them ineffective. My father avoided me for the first time in my life last summer and I was so happy, I nearly cried. I live in a new house in his mind. He understands that no matter how many times he tries, I will not give him what he wants.

[vonmoxie]

Originally Posted by rouge198

I used to harp on my dad being a narcissist because it was comforting to know a condition that seemed to be beyond his control was to blame for his inability to parent. Then I did some research and sat with myself. I realized that npd was for me easier to swallow than the fact that my father made a choice to be what he was (and still is) to me. Right then I cut his supply. It's been three years almost and he still comes sniffing around for attention and affirmation from me when his latest victim wises up and jumps ship. I put my hand up and direct him to look elsewhere, he always tries again. It's never about me and always about him needing validation and affirmation. However, non narcissists gold the most power because we given narcissists significantion. When we take that away, we render them ineffective. My father avoided me for the first time in my life last summer and I was so happy, I nearly cried. I live in a new house in his mind. He understands that no matter how many times he tries, I will not give him what he wants.

That's interesting, because for me personally, it's definitely better understanding the actions of narcissistic disorders as being the result of variances of the human psyche that has made it easier for me to distance myself from emotional tie-ins with the NPD's (and other Cluster Bs) in my family and thus bettered my opportunity for personal sanity. When I did still look at their actions as primarily being choice-driven, my emotionality over it was only fueled in an unfortunate way.

I'd so much rather support healthy emotional distances through identifying the differences between us in a clinical way (and, of course, not giving anyone enough rope to hang anyone anymore) than by having those distances be the result of what anyone did or chose. The B cluster is just not a place I've found to be beneficial for the investment of any intense emotional energy, positive or negative.

[Atypical_Disaster]

Originally Posted by ValentinaVVV

That is untrue. ^ It is in The DSM. My psychiatrist read it to me.

And as I've told that member, I have a copy of the DSM 5 and I've read it. Needless to say, I know NPD is still in there, which I've also told the member in question.

Originally Posted by ValentinaVVV

That is untrue. ^ It is in The DSM. My psychiatrist read it to me.

It was deleted then readded with new criterion. I think they were right to have deleted it and should have left it out because it is a trait every human possesses to some degree and by pathologizing it they only enable those self diagnosed with npd and those who've been diagnosed and are pleased with having the distinction in the MI community. It isn't sociopathy, it's a consequence of deep seated insecurity and by constantly trying to pick their brains we only elevate them and give them unearned signification. We should be studying sociopaths, not individuals who choose to emotionally terrorize on account of early childhood dysfunction or for lack of care for other human beings due to depraved indifference.

That said, I respect you Valentina and I believe you.

Originally Posted by vonmoxie

That's interesting, because for me personally, it's definitely better understanding the actions of narcissistic disorders as being the result of variances of the human psyche that has made it easier for me to distance myself from emotional tie-ins with the NPD's (and other Cluster Bs) in my family and thus bettered my opportunity for personal sanity. When I did still look at their actions as primarily being choice-driven, my emotionality over it was only fueled in an unfortunate way.

I'd so much rather support healthy emotional distances through identifying the differences between us in a clinical way (and, of course, not giving anyone enough rope to hang anyone anymore) than by having those distances be the result of what anyone did or chose. The B cluster is just not a place I've found to be beneficial for the investment of any intense emotional energy, positive or negative.

This is a really interesting way to look at it and I totally get it. Thank you for your response. I hadn't thought about it that way before. I guess the good thing is that despite approaching the situation differently we both arrived at a place where we're aware of their issue and removing the ropes from both sides. You seem to have approached it with more empathy than me. I saw danger and discarded the narcissist in my life.

Wish I had done the same for other people interested in emotionally terrorizing me.

I also think malignant narcissism is oxymoronic.

It's also important to note that the DSM once recognized homosexuality as a mental illness. Clearly they aren't always right.

Atypical please help me in figuring a way to let the moderators here know that they can delete the NPD forum all together. I see that we in fact are not disordered and someone was playing a sick joke on us by telling us otherwise. Thank you to the one recognizing that NPD is not real and that I am normal. You're the best!!!

http://m.motherjones.com/politics/20...ers-made-order

The DSM is a manual that, as I stated earlier, once listed homosexuality as a mental disorder. Its versions are very much influenced by the prevailing social norms and mores in existence at the time of their publish. NPD is not a disorder but a trait, in my opinion. It isn't crippling and doesn't prevent one from working. It certainly should be addressed and treated but we need to stop focusing so much attention on understanding the minds of narcissists because it only enables and does very little in the way of progress. It also situates narcissists as exceptional and they're not. Today, they're quite the norm. See teens and adults alike taking selfies at car crash sites rather than calling the police or offering help to victims for evidence. Conversely, sociopathy is concerning and worthy of all the pearl clutching and paranoia that it gets.

Narcissism isn't the result of a chemical imbalance so the case for being wired a certain way biologically doesn't stand, scientifically speaking. Though I suppose one could argue that narcissism is a fact of the human condition since we all are narcissistic at one time or another.

Rouge,

You would rather not say what your diagnosis is. Is it NPD?

[marmaduke]

Rouge 198
Narcissism is about being wired differently. Narcissisum is biological.
NPD is in the same genre as sociopathy, little or no empathy.
Latest research suggests (brain scans) narcissists/psychopaths have no neuro reseptors for the uptake of oxytocin the love/bonding hormone.
Psychopaths have been given oxytocin to 'cure' them. It didn't work.
Meds don't work because they have no receptors to attach too. Wired differently.

Being gay was once considered a MI but it's not. Instead they are wired differently (like NPD) my cousin is gay, born that way. Therapy won't make him straight, just like it won't change NPD.
Autism used to be blamed on alledged 'refigerator' parents.
Wrong. Born that way.
Psychopaths were made by bad parenting.
Wrong. Born that way.

NPD is gerenally not about upbringing no more than being gay is. The idea of 'deep insecuritys, the poor wounded soul is BS.

Of course NPDs can be hurt by abuse just like 'normal' kids can be, but it does not cause the PD per say.

My mother was disgustingly happy considering she made her children's lives a misery, including abandoning her first born at birth (maternal narcissisum)
Her own mother, my granny was a generous gentle soul, mother had NOT being abused as a child.

NPD isn't crippling?
It freaking well is for the children of NPD parents!
Crippled me good and proper!

Having some mild narcissistic traits is normal. It's on a spectrum.

NPD is not the same as traits.

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

[here today]

Originally Posted by rouge198

Narcissism isn't the result of a chemical imbalance so the case for being wired a certain way biologically doesn't stand, scientifically speaking. Though I suppose one could argue that narcissism is a fact of the human condition since we all are narcissistic at one time or another.

Please go back and read through this thread from the beginning. Or just look up James Fallon, who has been mentioned here several times. The scientific case for some instances of NPD being primarily a case of being wired a certain way is VERY strong.

What I’m interested in now is what about the other cases? We don’t seem to have anybody posting in this forum currently who is like that.

I don’t believe that my late father, who likely met the criteria, was like the people for whom it is mostly wired-in. And it sounds like you don’t feel that’s the case for your father either. If you look up “narcissistic personality disorder treatment” on the internet, there are cases of psychiatrists/psychologists who have treated people with NPD more or less successfully. And there are books out there, too, if you check on the booksellers sites.

Or, maybe, it would be more interesting to move into a discussion of "what is narcissism"?

Originally Posted by ValentinaVVV

Rouge,

You would rather not say what your diagnosis is. Is it NPD?

No, it's not.

Originally Posted by marmaduke

Rouge 198
Narcissism is about being wired differently. Narcissisum is biological.
NPD is in the same genre as sociopathy, little or no empathy.
Latest research suggests (brain scans) narcissists/psychopaths have no neuro reseptors for the uptake of oxytocin the love/bonding hormone.
Psychopaths have been given oxytocin to 'cure' them. It didn't work.
Meds don't work because they have no receptors to attach too. Wired differently.

Being gay was once considered a MI but it's not. Instead they are wired differently (like NPD) my cousin is gay, born that way. Therapy won't make him straight, just like it won't change NPD.
Autism used to be blamed on alledged 'refigerator' parents.
Wrong. Born that way.
Psychopaths were made by bad parenting.
Wrong. Born that way.

NPD is gerenally not about upbringing no more than being gay is. The idea of 'deep insecuritys, the poor wounded soul is BS.

Of course NPDs can be hurt by abuse just like 'normal' kids can be, but it does not cause the PD per say.

My mother was disgustingly happy considering she made her children's lives a misery, including abandoning her first born at birth (maternal narcissisum)
Her own mother, my granny was a generous gentle soul, mother had NOT being abused as a child.

NPD isn't crippling?
It freaking well is for the children of NPD parents!
Crippled me good and proper!

Having some mild narcissistic traits is normal. It's on a spectrum.

NPD is not the same as traits.

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

I appreciate your response. I would need to see evidence from a really reputable source to believe it's biological. I do believe my father is a narcissist but I think it's the result of nurture for him,not nature.

[Atypical_Disaster]

Originally Posted by marmaduke

Rouge 198
Narcissism is about being wired differently. Narcissisum is biological.
NPD is in the same genre as sociopathy, little or no empathy.
Latest research suggests (brain scans) narcissists/psychopaths have no neuro reseptors for the uptake of oxytocin the love/bonding hormone.
Psychopaths have been given oxytocin to 'cure' them. It didn't work.
Meds don't work because they have no receptors to attach too. Wired differently.

Being gay was once considered a MI but it's not. Instead they are wired differently (like NPD) my cousin is gay, born that way. Therapy won't make him straight, just like it won't change NPD.
Autism used to be blamed on alledged 'refigerator' parents.
Wrong. Born that way.
Psychopaths were made by bad parenting.
Wrong. Born that way.

NPD is gerenally not about upbringing no more than being gay is. The idea of 'deep insecuritys, the poor wounded soul is BS.

Of course NPDs can be hurt by abuse just like 'normal' kids can be, but it does not cause the PD per say.

My mother was disgustingly happy considering she made her children's lives a misery, including abandoning her first born at birth (maternal narcissisum)
Her own mother, my granny was a generous gentle soul, mother had NOT being abused as a child.

NPD isn't crippling?
It freaking well is for the children of NPD parents!
Crippled me good and proper!

Having some mild narcissistic traits is normal. It's on a spectrum.

NPD is not the same as traits.

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

I highly appreciate your intelligent posts. You are a much needed voice of reason around here.

I'm psychopathic as you know from reading my past posts(it's not hard for anyone else to do that by the way, I post about such things frequently in this forum when I'm in an honest mood which happens more than most people would think), and yes of course I was born that way.

My childhood was horrible, I am not denying that. But if anyone ever listened to me talk about it in detail, my psychopathic nature would be very apparent to whoever would be listening.

I call myself a narcissist because I am narcissistic. Narcissism is a feature of psychopathy as people who have done a bit of homework know. However, my "flavor" of narcissism is rather different than say Underground's who is a classic Narcissist(as in, someone with Narcissistic Personality Disorder).

Highly narcissistic mothers are very difficult to grow up with, I would know. I don't talk about my mother often, but she's a Psychopath so of course she's narcissistic as hell.

NPD is a devastating disorder, anyone who says otherwise is a fool.

Originally Posted by ValentinaVVV

Rouge,

You would rather not say what your diagnosis is. Is it NPD?

My father is a narcissist. Some would say textbook. I feel strongly about it because of my experiences with him. I don't empathize with him. I empathize with his victims, who included my mom - who for a time I thought was an npd mother.

[Atypical_Disaster]

Originally Posted by marmaduke

Like underground said he is wired differently.
I not a narcissist not wired differently, so my crappy upbring 'just' damaged a normal psyche. Depression OCD social phobia etc.

My sister was born a narcissist like mother, and her crappy upbringing exacerbated her PD turned her onto a demanding loud entitled graniose manipulative drama queen and quite the monster.

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

My younger sister, in sharp contrast to me, could be the poster child for PTSD because of growing up in my family. If it were all nurture, surely I would be a highly neurotic person myself. But I am not. I am fine, I am always fine.

[Atypical_Disaster]

Originally Posted by Underground

Atypical please help me in figuring a way to let the moderators here know that they can delete the NPD forum all together. I see that we in fact are not disordered and someone was playing a sick joke on us by telling us otherwise. Thank you to the one recognizing that NPD is not real and that I am normal. You're the best!!!

Yes indeed my friend. Matter of fact, they can delete all the other PD forums as well by this "logic". Ha ha ha.

[Atypical_Disaster]

Originally Posted by rouge198

The DSM is a manual that, as I stated earlier, once listed homosexuality as a mental disorder. Its versions are very much influenced by the prevailing social norms and mores in existence at the time of their publish. NPD is not a disorder but a trait, in my opinion. It isn't crippling and doesn't prevent one from working. It certainly should be addressed and treated but we need to stop focusing so much attention on understanding the minds of narcissists because it only enables and does very little in the way of progress. It also situates narcissists as exceptional and they're not. Today, they're quite the norm. See teens and adults alike taking selfies at car crash sites rather than calling the police or offering help to victims for evidence. Conversely, sociopathy is concerning and worthy of all the pearl clutching and paranoia that it gets.

Clearly you've never met my mother's husband. He has NPD, and he is very low functioning because of it.

There are tons of sites about npd and when breakups happen folks throw around npd as the culprit with their ex conveniently being affected by npd. Listen, I thought my ex had npd too. Then I realized they we were all going about things wrong. It is a trait, not a disorder. We're all capable of it. Some due to improper nurture and others on account of choice, struggle with it indefinitely. My father made a choice and I decided to exercise my right to choose by logging off npd abuse recovery sites, cutting off his supply and working on myself so that his behavior wouldn't impact me so much. Didn't take the pain away but it refocused me and took a ton of his power away, which for a narcissist is a huge blow. I also accepted responsibility for enabling him and sitting in victimhood. I encourage other non narcissists to do the same.