[hazn]

Every narcissist says they're misunderstood, as if they're the only victims in all of this. Yes, they are victims, but they also carry out horrendous acts of abuse against others. It's all about preserving ones own ego at all costs, regardless of the pain inflicted on others. When the mask is on, you're able to display empathy, compassion, love, etc... so you know what these things look like, and you also know they're highly meaningful to non-narcs. Yet, once you've discarded someone, there's nothing there. You know that withdrawing all of these things is highly damaging to someone, but you don't care because at that point there's nothing left in it for you. I get that you can't feel empathy, but you KNOW what you're doing is hurtful. If someone is telling you that you're hurting them by your actions, how can you turn around and say you're oblivious to it? Can't you make a conscious decision to NOT do that because it's wrong? I think you can, but you don't want to because not only do you not care, but you don't care that you don't care. And I don't mean to offend anyone, I'm just putting my thoughts out there and you're free to disagree with me. I don't claim to know about NPD, but I'm basing this on my own experience.

[hazn]

Hmm it sounds like I'm going back into victim mentality mode, and also trying to take on others people's problems. I'm going to try stay out of this thread. This isn't my problem.

[here today]

Originally Posted by hazn

Hmm it sounds like I'm going back into victim mentality mode, and also trying to take on others people's problems. I'm going to try stay out of this thread. This isn't my problem.

No, please don't. I think you've been an important contributor to this discussion. Here's something from James Fallon that may help.

Dr. James Fallon Makes Being a Psychopath Look Like Fun | VICE | United States

[here today]

Originally Posted by Atypical_Disaster

What's the point of feeling empathy?

The geek has been doing some research (fun!) and I came across some things online yesterday. Can’t find the stuff again right now (let me know, anybody, if you want it and I’ll try to find the links again) but the picture I’m beginning to get is that in “normals” the switch for emotional empathy is set “on”. It helps in bonding with other people, which has helped us work together and be such a successful species.

It can be turned “off” when we are stressed or traumatized, in which case we are more like psychopaths are normally.

On the other hand, the default setting for psychopaths is “off”. It can be turned “on”, in a way, and used instrumentally toward achieving one’s own goals. (Which is why some people may feel that psychopaths are the e- word.)

[here today]

Originally Posted by Underground

. . .My emotions are always my own and never based on what someone else is feeling. The only times I relate to another's feelings is when I put them there and I feel what I did is great. . .

I get it, I think, from the way my dad was. And maybe I'm kind of like that, too. Actually, it may be an overabundance of too much emotional empathy in a way.

It's like, I felt rejected from my mom and anger/hate resulted from that and I (my nervous system) turned the hate back on myself.

On the other hand, it's like my dad felt rejected, so but he/his nervous system turn off the hate, kept the love and focused it only on himself.

Does that make any sense to you?

Originally Posted by hazn

Every narcissist says they're misunderstood, as if they're the only victims in all of this. Yes, they are victims, but they also carry out horrendous acts of abuse against others. It's all about preserving ones own ego at all costs, regardless of the pain inflicted on others. When the mask is on, you're able to display empathy, compassion, love, etc... so you know what these things look like, and you also know they're highly meaningful to non-narcs. Yet, once you've discarded someone, there's nothing there. You know that withdrawing all of these things is highly damaging to someone, but you don't care because at that point there's nothing left in it for you. I get that you can't feel empathy, but you KNOW what you're doing is hurtful. If someone is telling you that you're hurting them by your actions, how can you turn around and say you're oblivious to it? Can't you make a conscious decision to NOT do that because it's wrong? I think you can, but you don't want to because not only do you not care, but you don't care that you don't care. And I don't mean to offend anyone, I'm just putting my thoughts out there and you're free to disagree with me. I don't claim to know about NPD, but I'm basing this on my own experience.

I get that you must of went through something that your not too happy about. Let's also agree that not all with NPD will be identical. Sure our traits mimic one another to a certain degree but some of us do act or re-act different to one situation than the next. NPD equates to people who think MOSTLY about their self. This is why it becomes difficult for others to understand how someone can be so thoughtless and so on. To make comments such as "every narcissist say's" and so on is not very constructive. A person with a N can leave even with the pain they may have now found, they are able to move on and find the greener grass. For us we are forever bound to ourselves, some feeling better than others but all have a broken something inside and misunderstanding of what's "acceptable" in this world. We are the victims in a sense, it's not just the one's around us. I suppose it's like a heroin addict, we are the heroin and we will always be the heroin. The user decides if they want a fix or they don't. We adapt to this world in a way you will never have to, we are constantly modifying our behavior whether it's realized or not. Let's be open minded here as this is the place to be so, we are not the only issue here. There seem's to be some kind of connection that satisfies so many with wanting our type close to them. So many time's I hear about all these multiple partners one has had that are all problematic. I guess we do fill voids for some time, it's just that the outcome isn't always great for the one who is staring into rather than out of the mask!! I do appreciate the resistance though, even if you're doing it to get back at your ex N. Just remember it wasn't any of us.... Or was it?? LOL

Originally Posted by here today

I get it, I think, from the way my dad was. And maybe I'm kind of like that, too. Actually, it may be an overabundance of too much emotional empathy in a way.

It's like, I felt rejected from my mom and anger/hate resulted from that and I (my nervous system) turned the hate back on myself.

On the other hand, it's like my dad felt rejected, so but he/his nervous system turn off the hate, kept the love and focused it only on himself.

Does that make any sense to you?

Here Today, are you one with NPD?

[here today]

Originally Posted by Underground

Here Today, are you one with NPD?

No, mostly the opposite -- focused on others or ideals, as a way to get my own needs for love and appreciation met. And not so much so now that I've had some successful (I hope) therapy. But, as I've said before, it seems that the underlying difficulty is similar, and I CAN be grandiose and NPD-ish. Actually, I AM pretty grandiose in my own way, rather obviously?

[marmaduke]

Just read the link on James Fallon and discovered he does not belive in free will, it's an illusion.
Agree!
He also suggests Mother Teresa was a psychopath. Years ago I read an article about Mother Teresa writen by a journalist who had worked with her, and I remember he said she 'Didn't actually care about the individual children at all' not one jot, which surprised him.
She served God that was her job. She didn't feel for the kids, there was no empathy. To her starving children were all part of Gods will.

I shocked at how much I agree with James!

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

[MissFiona]

Originally Posted by hazn View Post
What's the point of feeling anything?

Empathy is the basis of many other emotions. It must sound alien to you, but these emotions are a part of most people's lives. Presumably you know that, which is why you try to fake them... if you were an emotionless jerk all the time, I guess you wouldn't be able to affect anyone.

But if you're emotionally over the top on any one topic - wouldn't that be narcissism? Where the person has become the subject but just can't see it? And by subject I mean where the person is a public servant giving out community announcements on behalf of who? On behalf of mankind? To me that is a disguised form of narcissistic behaviour LOL

[hazn]

Originally Posted by MissFiona

But if you're emotionally over the top on any one topic - wouldn't that be narcissism?

Not necessarily ...but it is absolutely about having a balance, I think you're right about that. Narcissists seem to seek out people who display high levels of empathy (as was mentioned earlier by Atypical), and these kinds of people do seem to enable the narcissists behavior to some extent ...Is that because they themselves suffer from a form of narcissism? ...Is that what you're trying to get at, or have I misunderstood you?

Not exactly sure what you're trying to say in the remainder of your post, apologies.

[here today]

Originally Posted by Underground

Ok Here Today, it's seems I am being labeled as having lots of oversight, selfishness and being unfaithful. Please tell me more.....

I was not intending to label you, just describe how your natural way of being might come off to people. I knew my dad, I don’t really know you. From what I know from your posts, I believe you are trying to be a good guy, best you know how, and not doing so bad at all! As I understand it, most people with NPD haven't gotten to the point of considering that they may have anything that's an issue.

From what I understand about psychology, all of us have ways of being that we don’t know, can’t see because of our defense systems. For instance, in this thread have I been offensive to you, implying that I knew more than you about what it was like to have NPD? I was actually trying to gather data for geeky theory-making in my own mind. But if I came off "off" then please let me know. I can see that might have been the case. Didn't see it at the time, though, off in my own world. What do you think? And if I was offensive, would you like an apology?

[Atypical_Disaster]

Originally Posted by hazn

Every narcissist says they're misunderstood, as if they're the only victims in all of this. Yes, they are victims, but they also carry out horrendous acts of abuse against others. It's all about preserving ones own ego at all costs, regardless of the pain inflicted on others. When the mask is on, you're able to display empathy, compassion, love, etc... so you know what these things look like, and you also know they're highly meaningful to non-narcs. Yet, once you've discarded someone, there's nothing there. You know that withdrawing all of these things is highly damaging to someone, but you don't care because at that point there's nothing left in it for you. I get that you can't feel empathy, but you KNOW what you're doing is hurtful. If someone is telling you that you're hurting them by your actions, how can you turn around and say you're oblivious to it? Can't you make a conscious decision to NOT do that because it's wrong? I think you can, but you don't want to because not only do you not care, but you don't care that you don't care. And I don't mean to offend anyone, I'm just putting my thoughts out there and you're free to disagree with me. I don't claim to know about NPD, but I'm basing this on my own experience.

You're talking about Psychopaths and Sociopaths here, not Narcissists.

[Atypical_Disaster]

Originally Posted by Underground

I get that you must of went through something that your not too happy about. Let's also agree that not all with NPD will be identical. Sure our traits mimic one another to a certain degree but some of us do act or re-act different to one situation than the next. NPD equates to people who think MOSTLY about their self. This is why it becomes difficult for others to understand how someone can be so thoughtless and so on. To make comments such as "every narcissist say's" and so on is not very constructive. A person with a N can leave even with the pain they may have now found, they are able to move on and find the greener grass. For us we are forever bound to ourselves, some feeling better than others but all have a broken something inside and misunderstanding of what's "acceptable" in this world. We are the victims in a sense, it's not just the one's around us. I suppose it's like a heroin addict, we are the heroin and we will always be the heroin. The user decides if they want a fix or they don't. We adapt to this world in a way you will never have to, we are constantly modifying our behavior whether it's realized or not. Let's be open minded here as this is the place to be so, we are not the only issue here. There seem's to be some kind of connection that satisfies so many with wanting our type close to them. So many time's I hear about all these multiple partners one has had that are all problematic. I guess we do fill voids for some time, it's just that the outcome isn't always great for the one who is staring into rather than out of the mask!! I do appreciate the resistance though, even if you're doing it to get back at your ex N. Just remember it wasn't any of us.... Or was it?? LOL

I concur and go a step further by saying Narcissists are NOT Psychopaths or Sociopaths since it seems it got confusing for some.

[Atypical_Disaster]

Originally Posted by here today

The geek has been doing some research (fun!) and I came across some things online yesterday. Can’t find the stuff again right now (let me know, anybody, if you want it and I’ll try to find the links again) but the picture I’m beginning to get is that in “normals” the switch for emotional empathy is set “on”. It helps in bonding with other people, which has helped us work together and be such a successful species.

It can be turned “off” when we are stressed or traumatized, in which case we are more like psychopaths are normally.

On the other hand, the default setting for psychopaths is “off”. It can be turned “on”, in a way, and used instrumentally toward achieving one’s own goals. (Which is why some people may feel that psychopaths are the e- word.)

I've seen the on and off thing with a very close friend of mine, ironically she's one of the most empathetic people I've ever seen. How the two of us are healthy in a friendship I don't know but hey I just go with the flow. But she's talked about this exact concept, how sometimes when she's under too much stress she actually consciously CHOOSES to turn off her capacity for empathy because she said that frankly sometimes giving a **** about anyone else is just too much for her to handle.

If we're talking about cognitive empathy, hell yeah I have an on and off switch. I can tune into people ridiculously well when I want to, to the point that I've been called psychic. I can see what people are feeling and why they're feeling it just fine, I just don't give a **** about it.

[Atypical_Disaster]

Originally Posted by marmaduke

Just read the link on James Fallon and discovered he does not belive in free will, it's an illusion.
Agree!
He also suggests Mother Teresa was a psychopath. Years ago I read an article about Mother Teresa writen by a journalist who had worked with her, and I remember he said she 'Didn't actually care about the individual children at all' not one jot, which surprised him.
She served God that was her job. She didn't feel for the kids, there was no empathy. To her starving children were all part of Gods will.

I shocked at how much I agree with James!

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

I'm starting to like this James Fallon, he's an interesting guy and I like his theories.

Free will is an illusion in my mind and I've always thought of it that way, strange he's said that also.

The line between Saint and Serial Killer is a lot less clear than people think.

[here today]

Originally Posted by Atypical_Disaster

. . .
If we're talking about cognitive empathy, hell yeah I have an on and off switch. I can tune into people ridiculously well when I want to, to the point that I've been called psychic. . .

Absolutely! I think I've seen that and it's actually been helpful to me and I think others when you show some of us not only what we want to see but what we need to see, underneath the defense shields, if people are willing to look.

[Atypical_Disaster]

Originally Posted by here today

Absolutely! I think I've seen that and it's actually been helpful to me and I think others when you show some of us not only what we want to see but what we need to see, underneath the defense shields, if people are willing to look.

It might surprise people but I used to be a moderator on a forum for survivors of abuse(for roughly three years), I gave good advice and talked scores of people out of suicide. Sure, I didn't have the emotional connection... but I can be helpful if I choose to be.

So did Ted Bundy. ^

[here today]

Seems like James Fallon may be influencing the general attitude and knowledge about psychopathy, and the tide of opinion against all narcissism may be underway as well:

http://www.amazon.com/Rethinking-Nar...der_0062348108

Not all good, not all bad -- somewhere in between, human.

Narcissism is on a spectrum. NPD is a pathological Narcissism.

[MissFiona]

Hi hazn,

What I meant is that a person with empathy may not be displaying traits of NPD but their message to the world via the internet, the forums, I liken those messages to community service announcements where their experiences are from their point of view about emotional distress they have experienced and/or conquered to benefit their fellow man so that they are led down the right path. To me the advertising/preaching of the message is highly narcissistic due to the 'do what I say' or you will never be worth anything to anyone element.

So along the same lines, I think that anyone enabling an NPD is suffering of course, but to me, the release of their suffering on the internet is narcissistic because it gains attention. I suppose it just depends on how you view it and everyone views it from their own perspective. Which is also narcissistic LOL

[MissFiona]

Originally Posted by hazn
Every narcissist says they're misunderstood, as if they're the only victims in all of this. Yes, they are victims, but they also carry out horrendous acts of abuse against others. It's all about preserving ones own ego at all costs, regardless of the pain inflicted on others.

I used to think along the lines of it's all about not getting caught inflicting the abuse. If I'm caught (trapped) then my ego would be insulted and within a split second have gone up a gear or two or ten depending on the situation or the person or not bother at all - the part that says I can get away with anything or instantly come up with a better plan because basically I would think the other person was an idiot for not seeing through my crap or falling into my trap, which is believing me.

It took years to see the damage I was inflicting on myself and others and when the tape played back in my mind I have to admit I laughed about it, because there was the same pattern and it took years to notice, so self forgiveness had to happen for being so stupid not to see it sooner.

[here today]

Originally Posted by MissFiona

. . .
But if you're emotionally over the top on any one topic - wouldn't that be narcissism? Where the person has become the subject but just can't see it?

This makes a lot of sense to me, seems true in my experience.

Originally Posted by MissFiona

. . .I suppose it just depends on how you view it and everyone views it from their own perspective. Which is also narcissistic LOL

I know that I personally do view things from within the perspective of my own experience and own ego. And when I’m emotionally over the top that ego can become inflated to include everybody, all of mankind. I don’t want to take something personally if it’s not intended for me, but if the shoe fits, wear it.

Originally Posted by MissFiona

Originally Posted by hazn
Every narcissist says they're misunderstood, as if they're the only victims in all of this. Yes, they are victims, but they also carry out horrendous acts of abuse against others. It's all about preserving ones own ego at all costs, regardless of the pain inflicted on others.

Here’s the problem, as I see it. When one’s ego defenses are strong, then one CAN’T easily see/feel another’s perspective. How can that change? On the first page of this thread I reposted a comment from DBTDiva from another thread. Check back there if you’re interested. To me, I think that when people can receive feedback in a safe environment, then it can be easier to see another’s point of view. How do people create that environment and provide feedback. . .maybe we're doing that little by little, at least here?

[Atypical_Disaster]

Originally Posted by ValentinaVVV

So did Ted Bundy. ^

Lol, that's true! Talk about ironic, ha ha ha. I'm no serial killer but that similarity made me laugh!

Originally Posted by here today

Seems like James Fallon may be influencing the general attitude and knowledge about psychopathy, and the tide of opinion against all narcissism may be underway as well:

Robot Check

Not all good, not all bad -- somewhere in between, human.

Nobody is all good or all bad, everyone has darkness and light in them. It's the nature of being human.

Originally Posted by ValentinaVVV

Narcissism is on a spectrum. NPD is a pathological Narcissism.

Correct, that is why it's classified as a personality disorder after all.