Emotional problem is not an insult...

It sure doesn't. I mean, I have autoimmune problems, but so does my mom, possibly my dad, two grandmothers had them, at least one grandfather, and several cousins.

I still try my best. Maybe my best is not as good as a healthy person's best, but one of the things I learned is not to compare with others, and just stop listening when people think I'm "just lazy", because I don't need to be both full of guilt AND ill. One of the responsibilities you have when you are ill is to YOURSELF. I'm not born solely to please others.

One of the things I wonder about is if men experience PTSD a little different then women do. I think men tend to have "more anger that they also turn inward". I think women, though they do experience anger may get more "emotional".

"It's not just PTSD, but the view of looking and moving forward instead of back." quote TheDragon

I think "depending on the trama" the challenge of PTSD, is wanting to "look forward" but being "haunted by the past" and not understanding why.

I can still see in my posts in this thread that I was triggered, I still see the PTSD peaking through in my writing. I don't see that right away, I have to wait and revisit it and the context of the topic I am addressing. And I know that for me at least, I do find it insulting/triggering when people respond to my challenge as "me" having emotional problems. And that is basically from how "dismissive" people were to me IRL when it was not just emotional for me.

"So why is it people feel "emotional problems" is oh-so-offensive? I am not getting it." quote Venus

" People simply don't want to admit that they have an issue that they need to address, and perhaps grow and mature". quote TheDragon

I was triggered by this thread, and it surprised me tbh. And it took me time to think about it and even review what I posted in a response to some of the things that were said here.

It "really" hit me in a meeting with my attorney this past Monday, even in the waiting room thumbing through a pamphlet that explains what to expect with a lawsuit like mine. And it discussed the tactics that insurance companies use that are "legally accepted" where they knowingly make a person wait, even though they are financially struggling because of the debt caused to them due to someone's neglegence or carelessness.

It discussed that one of the tactics they use is to offer a piddly settlement around November because they know the holidays are approaching and the person suffering may want to buy gifts and celebrate but can't due to being in so much debt etc. It discusses how the insurance companies make the victim wait for "years" because they can make interest on the money all that time, so it is more profitable for them to "hold off settling". It also discussed that they know that debt and hardships if drawn out make someone get more desperate with time so they may grow so weary and desperate they may settle for much less.

My own attorney has been very "dismissive" to the emotional challenge, more importantly the PTSD I developed, which he called "emotional problems" to a point where it really aggrivated the PTSD that I was trying very hard to understand and it was crippling me severely.

This time he smuggly compaired my challenge to the emotional distress someone may go through if someone hits and kills their pet dog. And that was such an insult because I didn't just lose a dog, I lost 8 horses/ponies that I spent years training and were the main part of a business I built up over many years of hard work. That caused me to lose so many accounts I had aquired through alot of hard work, and it left me with $30,000 of credit card debt for medical care alone that I struggle to pay on every month that was directly caused by someone's outright negligence/lazyness even though they had been warned many times in the past and knew it was against the law to allow their dog to run free and gain access onto my property.

Not only that but it caused damage to an extremely expensive investment animal that has an appraised value of $125,000 along with other valuable investment animals that I was left to sort through the damage caused to them as well. I can't even begin to explain how much hard work that took to get to that point and that what was damaged is "not' replaceable.

The truth is I was not prepared to have to all of a sudden face so much loss, and death that wiped me out financially and emotionally and produced this condition caused PTSD that I never knew could happen to me and cripple me the way it has.

I was constantly addressing injuries that pretty much kept me hypervigilant day and night for months. So many nights standing there with one of them waiting for the IV treatment to finish dripping and all that effort failed. My legs and arms exhausted from all the handwalking this one, that one day after day because that is what was required of me to address so many of these injuries.

Well, I broke and I honestly didn't know what to do with all the anger and sadness and exhaustion. I didn't know I was experiencing Post Tramatic Stress, I didn't know what that was. Then I could not get up one more day, and I ended up in a psychward, and all I wanted is rest and grief counceling, someone to help me figure out what to do with the overload of emotions that completely exhausted me.

Unfortunately, I was seen by a psychiatrist that was from India, and this man grew up in a society where women are basically "property" and these kinds of emotions are not respected or recognized. So he sure didn't get my challenge. Wow, now that I look back, how unfortunate it was that I would end up in the hands of someone so incapable of seeing my reality and genuine need. It is so hard to hear my therapist validating that fact and telling me that he has heard so many others that have had the same unfortunate experience with this same man.

Then, because no one recognized the severity of my condition, nor did they even explain it to my family, I was constantly repremanded and treated so poorly for "having emotional problems that I should "just" know how to deal with". Grow up Dragon? Get mature Dragon? Well, that is definitely not what you say to someone who is experiencing post tramatic stress. It didn't help me when my older sister came into the psychward and yelled at me. It didn't help me when my husband picked me up and he too was so angry with me, not knowing that the way he was treating me is not the way you treat someone experiencing post tramatic stress.

I didn't "just" experience having my pet dog killed by someone careless.
I was wiped out and left with crippled animals and ones that died. I was left with years of hard work "destroyed".

And I built all of that up inspite of dealing with an alcoholic husband and facing so many challeges from that, I was very strong and "grown up" about alot of things that were put in my life path. Even almost dieing, laying in my bed in so much pain that was dismissed too. I was even yelled at by the ambulance man because I was crying out in pain because my body cavity was so full of toxins. Grow up? Mature?

Well, let me tell you, that was quite a challenge for me to recover from. My entire body cavity was opened up, and I had to learn how to get around even though all my muscles were cut through. I still worked and ran my business, isn't that grown up enough?

I never expected to deal with this thing called PTSD. I can look back and see my crys for help and I can read my records and see the red flags that should have been heard, and if they were heard could have prevented me from developing PTSD to the severeity that I suffered from it.

To be treated like the emotional challeges I had were "due to not being grown up enough or that I was somehow weak, or that it was trivial and I made too much out of it", is definitely an insult.

To tell me that months of being hypervigilant and finally falling in exhaustion didn't produce a kind of chemical dump in my brain that didn't result in creating cellular damage to very delicate parts of my brain that I am learning about and trying to understand, isn't "real"? That is not a matter of needing to grow up and be "more mature".

Now that I look at that poster Venus put up, yes, I can understand how so many people can be offended by how not recognizing that "emotional challenges" can be more than "just" that alone.

It is very hard when someone doesn't respect how hard it is to be trying to pick up the pieces and try to train other animals and to constantly have to stop because when I tried that I kept having flashbacks that were totally confusing me and I ended up spiriling down into depression without even understanding that it was a sign that the post tramatic stress was progressing into PTSD.

It is hard to sit across from a therapist and have him explain to you that "you" were the one that was mature and positive and outgoing and healthy, and your problem is the other people that dragged you down because "they" were not healthy and mature. To hear how strong and healthy you were, how impressive you handled so many challenges, but you just weren't capable of handling so much sudden loss and then being treated so poorly because it challenged you so much and you were punished for something very real that you couldn't help.

It isn't "just a simple emotional challenge due to imaturity", it a response to experiencing sudden trama and loss that you are so overwhelmed emotionally to the point where it hurts some delicate parts of your brain. It is more than just emotional too, it is "shock".

nobody said that.

Read my posts. I consider emotional problems as a serious thing, without it having to be called illness, when there's little proof of physicality. Yes, brain is organ, but it is more complex than that. Human psyche is entire other realm... so to reduce it "illness just like other" is not helpful.

OpenEyes, I don't have PTSD, but I do think I can relate to some of what you're saying.

You were someone who was strong, independent, took pride in meeting challenges, felt competent, and believed in herself. Yet, you STILL had something very traumatic happen to you. Even though you did everything right, bad things still happened. So, you looked within and thought...if only I had done this...maybe it wouldn't have happened. You became hyper-vigilant to the point of exhaustion. You thought you could handle anything until this happened and made you painfully aware of your own limitations. It broke you.

I think it's completely reasonable that this thread upset you. You are dealing with something that is the result of someone else's actions. You were harmed and devastated, and it was not your fault. You couldn't prevent it, and that's scary because if you couldn't prevent something once, that means it could happen again in the future.

I couldn't have prevented that severe weather event that destroyed thousands of homes, including my own. I did nothing to invite that tragedy into my life. It just happened. Lots of my neighbours suffered from depression and PTSD following the event, and some still do. There were many, many insensitive people who said things to us like "well, you knew that levy could break, so why are you so upset about it?", or "you shouldn't have lived there in the first place, we all know that hurricanes are common". Those sort of statements were unhelpful at best, and cruel at worst.

The only reason that I didn't come out of that experience severely damaged was that I didn't lose what was truly important to me. I still had the people I cared about most and I still had my health and life. Others, unfortunately, were not so lucky.

Sometimes we truly are powerless and weak, and I think it's important for people to acknowledge that without judgement. There is nothing wrong with being weak sometimes, and by acknowledging weakness, we have the opportunity to grow. We can then choose to learn how to strengthen ourselves or accept the things that we can't change. We all have limitations.

I think that's what you've done, by asking for help and trying to heal. That's really all you can do. You're moving in a positive direction. You can't go back in time and change what happened, but you're moving forward. Everyone experiences loss differently, so I don't think you should listen to those negative people who don't understand what you're going through. You are in pain and no matter what the reason, you need to do what you can to feel better.

Those people who are making your pain worse can be forgiven later, but you can only deal with so much at once. I hope you can surround yourself with mostly positive people who are supportive of your struggles. Best wishes.

" People simply don't want to admit that they have an issue that they need to address, and perhaps grow and mature". quote TheDragon

I didn't "say" that you said that Venus. I am answering your question, read my post prior to the one you quoted Venus. What is the quote above saying?

I am not "criticizing" you for asking your questions either. I will say that it hit some nerves in me though, and I have explained why, and situations where people have treated my "emotional challenges" in dismissive ways.
And I have found out from my therapist that several of his patients were treated poorly by the same psychiatrist at the psychward I went to. And I have heard from a specialist that knows he is a "jerk". My own therapist has admitted how poor the system is for treating patients like me as well.

I have tried to explain that had I been effectively treated, I could have avoided developing full blown PTSD. It is very upsetting to watch a specialist on TV talk about how the parents and family members close to anyone that dealt with Newtown to watch for danger signs, make sure that people got to discuss their "emotional duress" as much as they needed, to watch out for withdrawl and signs of depression because that is a dangerous sign that PTSD is setting in. It was very hard to watch this advice knowing that I suffered through all these stages and all the while was "treated in very dismissive even mean ways".

It is an insult if anyone considers "emotional problems" simply as a sign of "lack of maturity" in someone. PTSD doesn't happen due to "lack of maturity".

Thank you LovelaceF, it is nice to be validated. And I "have" been working very hard on the PTSD that has pretty much dragged me through hell. And I know that some people may not be ready in their healing to think about "growth" from trama and PTSD. Each person is different, and it depends on what kind of trama they experienced or if they experience a big trama that brings out some upsetting tramatic events from their past as well. That is also what happened to me as well. I had thought I overcame my past, however, apparently my brain had pockets of tramatic experiences that I never processed. People can go through their entire lives with these pockets and never re-experience them with PTSD. I never knew that could happen but it has been explained to me that this event and the poor treatment I recieved led to me getting so bad that these events also came forward.

Can people "grow" from understanding and dealing with PTSD, yes, but I have yet to meet anyone that doesn't still struggle with "anxiety" and having to work harder to maintain control over possible flairups as they are alot more sensitive once they experience PTSD in the brain. For the rest of their lives it is all about management of the PTSD. Yes, there is a higher learning and understanding that takes place with time and therapy. However, anyone will tell you that it is often extra work, often hard work to manage the PTSD.

This could be "very true" for other disorders that people are challenged with as well. Even certain learning disabilities can be an ongoing challenge as I know that is the case with my daughter who has dyslexia and the documentary special that HBO has as a result of the study done by Yale will show the "emotional" challenges people with dyslexia face that many people don't even consider. It wasn't easy for my daughter, as she had special classes in school and the other children made fun of her for that. Ugh, kids can be cruel, people can be cruel too.

Yes, and sometimes people can't "grow" from the trauma. Sometimes you just have to adjust. If you lose your leg in a terrible accident, part of coping is to learn to live without the leg.

Trauma changes people, and while you can often become well again after a trauma, you will never be quite the same as you were previously. Trauma leaves scars. Sometimes you have to figure out a way to improve the quality of your life as it is NOW regardless of the past.

Yes, I am trying very hard to do just that. It has been very hard because for coming on 6 years I have been trapped in a lawsuit and it keeps me in the trama. My therapist has said many times that it would be nice if I could get this behind me. It is hard to know I could get a call any day to be deposed, as they never finished deposing me from over two years ago now. I have to remember so many details I just don't want to remember anymore. And I am still reminded several times a month when the bills come due on the debt caused from it, and I am still caring for the damaged animals too.

I am trying to live in the now, but it is a challenge.

I'm not just talking about growth as a general idea. I was specifically referring to what's known as "post-traumatic growth." That's a more in depth look at it, but if you just google the term "post-traumatic growth" you'll yield a large number of results.

Post-traumatic Growth

the point is not to be the same as before. That's probably something SOME people chase... in vain.

They say what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

Holocaust survivors went on, not to be the same as before... but many did great things regardless. Maybe the horrible things made them... greater people, who knows.

I have experienced the opposite, so I have to disagree with that saying.

What a great response, Trippin --I agree!

Yay! Politically incorrect! What a relief to read stuff like this sometimes. There can be a lot of tip toeing around, sometimes for the better, but other times I think it can make people afraid to come out with the above, which sometimes just needs to be said, at least to give another perspective.

Thanks. It's what I'm usually known for around here lol.

I think there tends to be a lot of
"Buck up"
"Pull yourself up by your bootstraps"
"Grow a thicker skin"
"Think positive"

On one side, and a lot of "It's not my fault" on the other --there's so much in between the two and that's where we can have really constructive conversations --like this one.

Open Eyes - I'm not saying that you didn't learn and grow from these experiences. Honestly, I'm not only talking to you there's a whole thread with various responses going on. I was just pointing out that there's a difference between the idea of growing and learning, and then the phenomenon known as post-traumatic growth. I don't get why you're responding each time like I'm specifically selecting you out for criticism. I'm not being disrespectful, if nobody is forcing you to respond. If it's this thread was that much of a challenge and bothered you that much, seriously, you're not obligated to respond, especially when there's already plenty of conversation.

I didn't say you were directly responding to me Dragon (although you have directly responded to me). I am merely pointing out statements that can "trigger" and also pointing out how it can be distubing for some people who are treated like their emotional challenges are "lack of some kind of maturity or growth" and not a challenge due to "mental illness" of somekind. That was the original question.

You are right, no one is forcing me to respond, I am choosing to respond and offer "my point of view'.

If I am "triggered" in someway, it isn't anyones fault really. I am just sharing MPOV.

It is actually nice to have others understand what I am saying. That is what is nice about posting a question like this in a "support" site.

[quote=Open Eyes;2941898]Open Eyes, no one is saying this. It's not black and white, between it's your fault/it's no big deal/get over it, etc. and it's all in the brain. Exploring different causes and different avenues to healing does not mean there is 'blaming' going on.

It's not about fault or blame and I think once you remove these from the equation there is a lot more to see and learn out there.

Yes. I think it might be more helpful -sometimes anyway- to say, instead of 'My PTSD' (or insert other diagnosis) to say, 'my experience.'

Yikes. I don't think pain/distress can be compared like that. Or shouldn't.

Then, because no one recognized the severity of my condition, nor did they even explain it to my family, I was constantly repremanded and treated so poorly for "having emotional problems that I should "just" know how to deal with". Grow up Dragon? Get mature Dragon? Well, that is definitely not what you say to someone who is experiencing post tramatic stress. It didn't help me when my older sister came into the psychward and yelled at me. It didn't help me when my husband picked me up and he too was so angry with me, not knowing that the way he was treating me is not the way you treat someone experiencing post tramatic stress.

I think it's important to keep in mind, Open Eyes (and I can understand from your experience that it's hard) that this (above) is not what is happening here, now, on this forum.

So some people's advice is Get a grip, grow up, mental illness doesn't exist.

Believe that, fine by me. But in real life I avoid people with that attitude.

And saying holocaust victims came out of it as better people... some did maybe, but a lot did not, jeeze. And it's like saying What are you whining about, the HOLOCAUST victims were fine.

[quote=ultramar;2945652]I am not talking about "blame though". My point in this post you pointed out was "cognitive" is about parts of the brain functioning to produce thoughts. The cognitive is affected with PTSD and they have explained why by how the parts of the brain that they have seen as "damaged" or compromised, do not function normally.

I pointed out the pathology that explains "why" speech is affected as well as controlling the emotions, filtering, before they are expressed.
I have dealt with that issue myself, so I know there is something wrong with that area of my brain.

Concentration, learning are all affected, it isn't about "just emotions".
However, there is a challenge with emotions, "especially anger".

If someone decides that the pathology of the areas of the brain they are discovering that are "affected" by PTSD is false? Well, then why have I experienced exactly the challenges they are discussing? It was not anything I could have just decided to have difficulty with.

I remember when I first came to PC, I was always leaving words out, sometimes thoughts didn't get in my posts but I thought they did. I had to often spend alot of time rereading my posts to check for missing words, and sometimes I still left some out. That is not "normal for me".

I think, however, these damaged areas can heal. However, I think it takes a very long time. It is very slow and gradual.

As far as the anger spouting out, without me "thinking first" or knowing it was coming. That was explained too. I had to let it come out and "then" pay attention to it. Hense I talked about "healing backwards".

Actually some of that is showing in just what you pointed out here. I admit, I got too angry. I should have done better than that, that is not like me, or the old me before the PTSD. I didn't expect someone to say the "pathology" that is being presented, especially with this new techology and massive studying going on to understand PTSD and how to deal with it, is false.

I have to admit that I almost would rather not know and just think I can "get better and make gains" and there is no "damage". But I also can't "just pretend" either. However, what I can do is keep trying and hope I keep healing. I have noticed "gains", but this anger pop is proof I still struggle.

And honestly, I do talk about just that when I support others too. I talk about removing the blame, or looking behind abusers or people that hurt others, and learning instead of just seeing "the bad guy" hurting you. I have to work on that alot myself. I used to be very good at that, until this recent challenge.

PTSD, magifies everything, and it is alot of work to try to "reduce" that. I do talk about finding strength and learning and growing "all the time". I talk about how people can become stronger, wiser, and understand more too. It often takes time to help others see that too.
But they are often very receptive if their challenge is "validated".

I cannot say that someone can completely "heal" yet. My therapist tells me not to listen to people who say PTSD has no cure. He tells me I am doing well, and he has worked with patients that "do" recover, but it can take a few years.