we all wish him well with his past and the fact tht he needs help for his current situation. i for one wish him well, but there are other sites for him, too many people here were triggered by him.

it was a hard decision for the administrators and moderators.
let's just not stress them out any more. the subject has been dealt with

jinny xx

[DocJohn]

Folks, please don't misunderstand...

We already acknowledged that abusers were often abused themselves, but we also acknowledged that this community cannot be all things to all people. In doing so, we would be nothing to no one.

We sometimes have to make difficult decisions that don't always feel 100% right, and it's difficult, to be certain. But it's also what's right and best for the community's sake.

DocJohn

...according to the new guideline, i think the majority of us will no longer qualify as members here IF we were truthful.........the only mistake lostson made was giving us too much information..as has been said, if he had only asked for help because of his being abused....he would have been welcomed with open arms.......once again this young man who had urges he NEVER acted out on, sought empathy and was once again dismissed........i will continue to stay by his side and seek out help for him.

[drunksunflower]

Well thank you for letting there be a discussion rather than just shutting the thread down automatically.

At the end of the day, though, this instance was NOT dealing with a convicted sex offender, it was dealing with someone who is clearly terrified of their own urges, enough to be taking positive action. I imagine at least part of this action is dealing with their own abuse. And it's sad they can't get any support here at least on that aspect.

*shrug*

:|

[caramelcreme]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
sparkling said:
I completely agree with drunksunflower. Treating lostson as if he's some kind of monster (while he never acted on his thoughts) is only going to increase his self hatred and alienation. Not very supportive thing to do. If I don't like someone's presence I make use of the ignore button instead of demanding that the person leave the place.

As for the new guideline - I don't think there is ONE person in the world that never hurt anyone (both in their thoughts and reality). If thoughts could hurt I would probably be in jail for the rest of my life or longer.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I agree with drunksunflower and sparkling. lostson was open about his situation and about the fact he never acted on his impulses. i'd be the first to admit that i have unhealthy impulses that can hurt other people. i haven't voiced them yet because i'm still finding me feet in this forum. they are not of a sexual nature i just mean that at times people make me angry and i want to lash out at them. however i don't do it

i can understand that others need to feel safe but the fact is that lostson is an individual that has been abused and has resisted the temptation to perpetuate that abuse on others. i applaud him for his honesty and candor and strength.

[SeptemberMorn]

Thank you, Doc John! I think you made the best and wisest decision and your reasons are the very best!

well that put me in my place then.
like i said, the moderators and administrators had a hard time over this.

we all feel for him for being abused, he needs help and i hope he gets it.

for gods sake you cant please everyone. i for one feel bloody awful now all this happened. but i amongst other find it hard to trust people and at the end of the day heCOULD have been a risk

jin

i'm standing with helping him find help. there are members here who post 24/7 and trigger the hell out of me......IF I READ THEIR POSTS.......i use my ignore button.

and Julia is so on with what she said about what the new guidelines would do if we all were to abide by them. whatever happened to one for all and all for one? some can get by with anything here.....so, is it all for a few?

[drunksunflower]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
fayerody said:
i'm standing with helping him find help. there are members here who post 24/7 and trigger the hell out of me......IF I READ THEIR POSTS.......i use my ignore button.

and Julia is so on with what she said about what the new guidelines would do if we all were to abide by them. whatever happened to one for all and all for one? some can get by with anything here.....so, is it all for a few?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Awesome post.

It seems like the vocal moral minority won out.

Lostson if you're reading this i'll flick you an email later - thank you for trusting me with your address

moral minority that's your opinion

[sparkling]

Just wanted to add that this guideline is not going to help anyone deal with such negative impulses/emotions. Instead it may scare people from talking about them since there is the risk of being banned from the place.

BTW I too admire lostson for his honesty. And good post, fayerody.

Thank you docjohn, for your understanding in this matter.

I lived through abuse of many kinds as a child and young adult and feel that doesn't give me any reason to do the same to the next young generation.

I feel those that use their past abuse to explain their present abusive behavior towards helpless/physically weaker humans, make a mockery out of my horrific struggle to maintain a moral existence. They usually abuse because they believe they can get away with it. (IMO)

Thank you again for thinking of and having compassion for a part of this community that can be extremely fragile.

mandy

[drunksunflower]

Not providing someone with support after such honesty (and I don't mean those who are triggered by the issue, I mean people who feel they can deal with it and help) is what I perceive as the ultimate demotivator for someone who is so obviously desperately trying to change their thought patterns.

good post mandykins thankyou.

[okiedokie]

There is no way for any of us to know whether or not lostson has acted on his self-disclosed urges or not. We do not know if he is a convicted sex-offender or not. And before you slam me that we really don't know (for sure) if ANY of us are being honest, I'd have to agree that it is a possibility that some of us may not be.

For me, his post was troublesome. I don't agree with SE that Docjohn has an obligation to refer him to another support site. If we had a "no smoking" policy here, it would be appropriate for docjohn to tell the smoker what the policy is for this site, not to refer the smoker to a site that allows smoking. I don't agree that Docjohn has an obligation to allow people to post here who are going to trigger/upset the majority of other members. Rules are necessary whether we like them or not. Docjohn and his team are the rule makers. End of story.

To the poster who thinks that an adult who rapes and sodomizes a 16 y.o. is really not a pedophile, I disagree wholeheartedly.

Tough call? I'm sure. Good call? You bet.
Thanks,
Okie

[drunksunflower]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
mandyfins said:

I lived through abuse of many kinds as a child and young adult and feel that doesn't give me any reason to do the same to the next young generation.

I feel those that use their past abuse to explain their present abusive behavior towards helpless/physically weaker humans, make a mockery out of my horrific struggle to maintain a moral existence.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Lostson purports that he has never ever abused anyone. I think that highlights why some of us find this such a contentious issue.

let's not fight about this.

a lot of us were abused as children. and alot of us were abused as adults. and some of us are being abused as i type.

we all handle things differently. that's why i put people on ignore who irritate/trigger me. it is so very simple........xoxoxo pat

[drunksunflower]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
okiedokie said:
are the rule makers. End of story.

To the poster who thinks that an adult who rapes and sodomizes a 16 y.o. is really not a pedophile, I disagree wholeheartedly.


</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Dude. Sixteen is the age of consent (in the country this occurred in). I am referring to a legal judgement, naturally.

go read up on paedophiles you'll find that lots of them will never change if not all. they put themselves in prison so they dont offend. trust me i was abused by one who lied cheated and wormed his way out. i saw a documentary about it. they do not change

[LILITH]

Thank you DocJohn!

[drunksunflower]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
jinnyann said:
go read up on paedophiles you'll find that lots of them will never change if not all. they put themselves in prison so they dont offend. trust me i was abused by one who lied cheated and wormed his way out. i saw a documentary about it. they do not change

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I have read much of the literature, I have a post-graduate qualification in the criminal justice field.

Because of what you've read, does that mean that someone who perhaps falls in the minority who might be able to change should be treated the way they have been treated here?

The day a person should believe everything they are told in a documentary is the day pigs will fly, btw.

My post was to Docjohn ONLY, and not in any way about a former member. I was only posting about the new guideline-- which I believe was a good decision.

I'm not about to debate over someone that is gone, and someone I don't even know.

mandy

[drunksunflower]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
fayerody said:
let's not fight about this.

a lot of us were abused as children. and alot of us were abused as adults. and some of us are being abused as i type.

we all handle things differently. that's why i put people on ignore who irritate/trigger me. it is so very simple........xoxoxo pat

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

[Rhapsody]

Thank YOU - DocJohn for caring enough to PROTECT the MEMBERS that care enough to be here...... may we all honor your wishes.

LoVe,
Rhapsody -

[spiritual_emergency]

I was going to address this: And it's sad they can't get any support here at least on that aspect.

and then you posted this: Lostson if you're reading this i'll flick you an email later - thank you for trusting me with your address.

Ironically, even though he's not technically "here" it seems that lostson is finding support -- maybe even more support than he might have found if he had simply blended into the background. I agree that it's been beneficial that the discussion has been allowed to continue.

Something else that I think is beneficial is those who have been hurt by sexual abuse have had the opportunity to see a potential abuser express regret and remorse -- many people who have been hurt never get the opportunity to see that remorse expressed. When they do (and perhaps this will apply to you jinny) it can stir up some confusion because it allows them to identify with the humanity of their oppressor -- something they may have separated from in an effort to protect themselves.

In my own experience, I had to find a way to move past terror and often, it meant spending time with it as I could comfortably do so. Often, this was best done from a distance but something happened in the process -- as I was capable of seeing the humanity of my abuser, my own humanity was being restored. That doesn't mean that I actively seek out the company of bullies, but it does mean that I'm not scared anymore. I posted a link yesterday to a collection of quotes by Clarissa Pinkola Estes and this one is very pertinent to this situation: The Boundaries of Rage and Forgiveness

Naturally, people progress in their own way and in their own time -- I'm saying that specifically for your benefit Jinnyanne. Don't beat yourself up because you're not in that space. Ideally, you'll get there in your own time and in your own way. I sincerely hope lostson will too.